We had an extremely fun and informative industry deep dive with this one. From the origin story and future of NITO to epic tales from the independent agent world, we covered it all.

We kicked things off exploring how the pandemic helped galvanize agents to work together, and why that collaboration still matters. Then we dug into what it truly means to be independent—both in spirit and in practice—with some unforgettable booking stories (shoutout to Derek Trucks).

We also unpacked the pressures and realities of working in a landscape increasingly dominated by consolidation, weighing the pros and cons of major vs. indie and asking: who’s really better equipped to support artists?

From there, we examined the elusive path to stardom, broke down the economics behind agent-promoter relationships, and debated a big question—who should carry the most risk in today’s live music deals, promoters, venues or agents?

This one’s full of insight, laughs, and a ton of real talk from deep inside the live music trenches.

(00:15) Origin story, and future of NITO + a silver lining of the pandemic & the value of agents working together.

(18:08) What does it mean to be an independent promoter or independent agent? The spirit + the letter of the law. Some epic stories including booking Derick Trucks.

(41:16) The NITO perspective on cohexisiting/battling with the forces of consolidation. The pros and cons with going with the majors vs staying independent. Who is better setup to help artists?

(53:31) The ascension of artists, is there a formula to achieving stardom 

(01:06:34) The agent and promoter relationship & co-existence, the economics of striking fair deals, escalating fees to combat higher guarantees, and a debate on who should carry the most risk. Is there room for a new type of deal?

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More on ⁠⁠NITO

More on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Prism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Banana Bread - Layton.rx⁠⁠⁠ (Prism engineer!)

(Chapters below intro)

In this episode, we sit down with Graham Williams, founder of Resound Presents — the legendary indie promoter behind over 600 shows a year across Austin, San Antonio, and Dallas. We dive into the macroeconomics of the live music industry, surviving today’s challenging business environment, and the pros and cons of having a massive venue like The Moody Center in town.

Graham shares what makes Resound’s brand stand out and reflects on how booking in Austin has evolved over the last 30 years. We explore his festival era, from Fun Fun Fun Fest through Sound on Sound, including magical moments, clashes with corporate culture, and the hard lessons learned organizing festivals through unpredictable weather and city bureaucracy.

We also talk about the risk involved in booking shows and the innovative solution Prism launched called Insights, which is now helping promoters save tens of thousands of dollars every month.

Finally, Graham answers a series of fastball questions covering the art of building an iconic indie brand, fostering a melting pot of genres, sustaining success for three decades, putting on shows at haunted western towns and laser tag arenas, staying connected to new bands, and a nod to the classic comedy Blazing Saddles.

(00:11) The story of Resound Presents, a legendary indie promoter that books over 600 shows a year in Austin, San Antonio, and other Central Texas markets

(10:51) Macroeconomics of the industry, surviving the current business environment, and dealing with competition — the pros and cons of having a massive venue like The Moody Center in town

(21:41) What makes Resound’s brand special, and how booking in Austin has evolved over the last 30 years

(36:56) Graham’s festival era, from Fun Fun Fun Fest through Sound on Sound — reflecting on magical moments, clashes with corporate culture, challenges managing the city parks department, inclement weather, and other hard lessons in organizing festivals

(59:38) Reflecting on the risk of booking shows, and the innovative solution Prism launched called Insights, which is helping promoters save tens of thousands of dollars monthly on offers

(01:12:53) Fastball questions: what goes into curating an iconic indie brand, the melting pot of genres covered by Resound, keys to success after 30 years of putting on concerts, building a scene by hosting shows at haunted western towns and laser tag arenas, keeping up with new bands, and a nod to Blazing Saddles

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More on ⁠Resound

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Banana Bread - Layton.rx⁠⁠ (Prism engineer!)

In this conversation, Kym (the venue owner) walks us through Pinhook’s 16‑year journey from start‑up to beloved cultural anchor in downtown Durham, NC. They open by explaining how Prism’s booking and settlement tools have tightened operations enough for a small, 200‑capacity room to pay fair wages—including their own—without sacrificing the club’s community‑first ethos.

Kym then rewinds to Pinhook’s 2008 founding, sharing how a queer‑owned, radically inclusive space was forged to welcome every walk of life while amplifying Durham’s DIY music roots. They dive into the economics of surviving (and thriving) as a micro‑venue: offsetting inflation and shifting drinking habits with inventive revenue streams—non‑alcoholic options, staggered early and late shows, and relentless programming creativity.

Mid‑episode, we hear the dramatic story of Pinhook’s brush with closure and the grassroots campaign (boosted by hometown heroes Sylvan Esso) that kept its doors open. Kym pulls back the curtain on the hard math of a 200‑cap business, stressing why community goodwill and eventually owning the building “dirt” matter as much as bar sales.

We wrap with a round of fastballs: their playbook for sustaining a tiny venue over decades, hopes for a fairer, more inclusive music ecosystem, and practical advice for fellow operators—chief among them, “Control your real estate, stay agile, and stay true to the people you serve.

(00:20) - Kym reflecting on how helpful Prism is to their 200 capacity community venue and pay them and their employees more

(3:24) - Kym’s story and the founding of Pinhook, a queer owned and ran club in Durham NC, and their unique ethos to truly embody inclusion while creating a safe space for everyone

(13:26) – the shifting landscape of drinking preferences, inflation and Kym’s success offering NAs, doing early shows & late night shows, and overall how Kym gets creative to make their venue work

(22:33) – The economics of making a 200 cap community centric club work, staying in business for 16 years + the heroic story of Kym and the community saving Pinhook early on–in part thanks to incredible local bands like Sylvan Esso 

(32:07) – Fastballs: how do you make a 200 cap sustain for 16 years, the importance of owning the dirt under your venue, hopes for the music industry for the future

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More on The Pinhook

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Banana Bread - Layton.rx⁠ (Prism engineer!)

Avant Gardner, home of The Brooklyn Mirage, is truly one of the most spectacular venues in the world, and the innovation isn’t done yet. In this episode, we dive deep into the wild transformation Brooklyn Mirage is undergoing—possibly on the level of an East Coast Sphere (while still being its own thing). The new CEO joins my podcast to share plans for the future and to reflect on some harrowing mistakes made at the last Electric Zoo festival. I loved Josh’s approach: take feedback head-on, make peace, commit to changes, follow through, and keep going.

(00:17) – Josh reflects on his first season as CEO of Avant Gardner and Brooklyn Mirage, and on the background that led him to this incredible opportunity

(04:18) – A breakdown of the executive team, the origin story, and the vision behind one of the most otherworldly music venues in Brooklyn

(13:35) – Pushing the boundaries of what a venue can be: the grand vision of the new Brooklyn Mirage, potentially the “Sphere of the East Coast” or something totally unique—kicking off with two sold-out Sara Landry shows

(23:57) – Learning from failures and facing criticism and bad press head-on: what happened with Electric Zoo, reaching a settlement with vendors and fans, and how the company plans to rebuild for the future.

(39:30) – Fastball questions: the staffing required to run Avant Gardner and Brooklyn Mirage, the software tools used to ensure smooth operations, acquiring Made Events, and the ultimate goal of becoming the most innovative, forward-thinking live electronic venue in the United States.

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More on ⁠Avant Gardner & Brooklyn Mirage

More on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Prism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Banana Bread - Layton.rx (Prism engineer!)

TikTok (and social media as a whole) has transformed the music industry, perhaps on the same level as the evolution of digital streaming—from enabling once-unrecognized artists like Chappell Roan to build massive online followings & successful careers overnight, to revolutionizing the way we market and promote live concerts and record releases. The industry has arguably changed for the better thanks to these tools, but the plot thickens with TikTok—perhaps the stickiest of all social media platforms, which also happens to be fully owned and operated by a Chinese company.

Is TikTok a massive psyop for the CCP to gather security intel? The greatest propaganda tool ever invented (broadcasting straight into the minds of hundreds of millions of Americans)? Or is it simply a fun place to share videos? These questions have drawn the attention of everyone from presidents and executives of the world’s largest companies, to the Supreme Court—all weighing in on what should happen.

Through this conversation, Joseph Perla helps us make sense of what’s happening and shares his vision for the second coming of Turntable.fm, called Hangout.fm. Hangout.fm is an exciting new social media platform that relies on HI (Human Intelligence) instead of AI, enabling friends to connect and share music in a fresh, engaging way. I was a user of Turntable.fm back in 2011 and loved the platform—I remember when record labels effectively shut it down. Now, Joseph has partnered with those same labels to refresh the service with a modern take.

All this and more in the latest episode.

(00:15) – The scoop: Is TikTok banned? Did Congress make it illegal? How are Trump’s policies playing into this? Can people still use it now? Will it be sold?

(7:25) – Is the TikTok ban beyond Trump? What does the letter of the law say? Could Apple and Google be fined for new downloads of TikTok?

(11:22) – What is the secret sauce of the TikTok algorithm? Will they ever sell it?

(16:44) – The role Meta’s lobbyists and other tech giants have played in the TikTok ban.

(19:05) – Unpacking the theory that TikTok is a security issue for the U.S.

(31:45) – The argument that allowing TikTok is part of operating in the free world.

(37:47) – How this impacts the music industry, Joseph’s solution with Hangout, and the distinction between HI and AI (Human Intelligence vs. Artificial Intelligence).

(38:50) – The evolution of Turntable.fm, how it was shut down by record labels, and how that eventually led to the launch of Hangout in a post-Spotify era. Plus, the overall evolution of the industry, from cassettes to digital MP3s to VR and AR.

(51:50) – A new solution for using social media to market live shows

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Join us in Prism's ⁠Hangout⁠

More on Hangout

More on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Prism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Papooz - The Garde⁠⁠⁠⁠

This was a truly fun podcast with my good friend Aly, who makes me feel deeply confident about the emerging generation carrying the torch for producing psych rock events and booking fantastic live music.

We explore the world of psychedelic rock festivals with Aly, one of the creators behind Austin Psych Fest and Levitation. In this episode, we’ll hear how he went from booking small clubs like Hole in the Wall to producing cutting-edge events across Austin, discover his process for choosing the perfect bands, and get an inside look at the new format for Levitation 25. We’ll also discuss the rise of Chappell Roan, the power of technology in booking, and the future of psych music. Stick around for our lineup add-on, where we reveal this year’s Psych Fest roster and throw a few “fastballs” at the lineup!

(00:18) – Aly’s story of producing Psych Fest, Levitation, and his start booking local legendary clubs like Hole in the Wall

(02:24) – The process of picking bands for Levitation and Psych Fest

(07:25) – Organizing decentralized music festivals at venues around Austin

(09:35) – Innovative new format & venue for Levitation 25

(24:28) – The art of booking festivals and booking in general during the social media era

(33:18) – Legendary ascent of Chappell Roan, in one tour going from not selling out Parish to headlining ACL

(37:48) – Aly’s story from his childhood in Egypt to booking bands at UT & Hole in the Wall

(49:24) – How Aly has used Prism & technology at various parts of his journey

(53:47) – The future of the industry, the future of Psych, Psych Fest Cairo/Pyramid stage?

(57:02) – The power of live music and world peace

(58:35) – Psych Fest’s absolutely incredible lineup

(1:03:40) – Creative process for booking this year’s Psych Fest

(1:14:42) – Psych Fest fastballs: most innovative in their approach to psych, most likely to show up on Dark Side of the Moon, and more

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Resound Presents,Levitation,Psych Fest

More on⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Prism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Papooz - The Garde⁠⁠⁠⁠

Sean & Kendall lay out the what, why, and vision of the State of Live initiative, which will provide music venues with an essential tool for local, regional, and national advocacy. If you run any kind of performance stage, please take the time to fill out the survey. In addition to discussing why this is the most important initiative since SVOG, we also explored an important philosophical discussion on the challenges live music venues face and envisioned a future where the entire industry can thrive beyond the challenges with tools like Prism Insights (link to page we are setting up).

👉 Take the State of Live Survey Now

February 18

• (00:10) What is the State of Live and why it’s the most important thing NIVA has done since SVOG.

• (10:03) Music venues can complete the survey in as little as 10 minutes (while earning a discounted pass to NIVACon!). All results are anonymous, and the survey data will  power advocacy conversations for the next 3-5 years.

• (23:35) A philosophical discussion on the state of the live music industry, the challenges of running a music venue, and what it would take for the industry to thrive.

• (29:39) Will the younger generation tour, play shows, and attend concerts more or less?

• (35:49) Surviving inflation.

• (42:46) To help combat the challenges live music venues face, Prism launched Insights, the most consequential data-sharing initiative in the history of live music.

Please share this with anyone that might be interested in the topics, links below to subscribe and stay in the loop with the podcast and Prism:

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More on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Prism⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism - ⁠⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠⁠

Opening Music - ⁠⁠⁠⁠Papooz - The Garde⁠⁠⁠

In today’s episode, we talk with Daniel with someone who’s been at the heart of D.C.’s live music scene for over two decades. From starting out as artists to building and running Union Stage Presents, which now operates six venues and hosts thousands of shows each year, they’ve seen it all. We’ll discuss the challenges of running small venues, how to keep a schedule packed with hundreds of shows, the realities of growing a business in a competitive market, and what it’s like to manage a multi-venue operation. We’ll also explore what makes D.C.’s music scene so unique and how the city’s culture and politics shape the way live music thrives here. It’s a conversation about the long road to success, the energy it takes to keep a venue alive, and what the future of live music might look like. Let’s get into it.

—----

(00:13) - “Overnight” Success (23 years of pushing), Union Stage Presents has grown to an operation of 6 venues doing thousands of shows a year

(01:56) - Going from artists to starting their own venue, Jammin Java 10 miles away from the Pentagon on 9/11, and eventually sustaining their 200 cap room for over 20 years

(13:10) - The art and science of keeping a venue booked + the sheer energy and resources required to do 300+ events a year at a small club

(23:12) - Growing beyond one venue, promoting at other venues, and building Union Stage

(29:00) - Surviving in DC, a robust live music market with tons of competition

(35:38) - The unique culture of DC that makes it a thriving live music market + how politics naturally shapes the landscape

(43:56) - Expanding to adding another venue, Capital Turnaround + manages the stresses and challenges of a growing business, and eventually expanding to owning/managing 6 venues

(52:05) - A zoomed out perspective of the flow of artists across the country, and how to create a pipeline of artists and shows

(59:15) - Fastball Questions - how to keep 200+ employees happy and engaged, how Prism and other tech platforms can help with scale, building their own ticketing system/the ticketing ecosystem as a whole, excitement for the future (potentially a large space coming?!)

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism - ⁠⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠⁠

Meet Daniel

Union Stage Presents new website

Opening Music - ⁠⁠⁠Papooz - The Garde⁠⁠

Elsewhere - ⁠⁠ https://www.elsewhere.club/

In this episode, we dive into the journey of PopGun Presents and the iconic Brooklyn venue Elsewhere, with founder Rami. From his early days as an agent to becoming a cornerstone in NYC’s live music scene, Rami shares insights into building a thriving venue in a competitive market. We explore the hustle behind booking in NYC, the impressive $3.5M raise for Elsewhere’s launch, and the successes and challenges. Rami also shares his perspective on the future of music venues amidst rising costs and industry consolidation. A must-listen for anyone curious about the business and soul of NYC’s music scene!

(00:17) - Introduction, Origin Story of PopGun Presents and Elsewhere 

(04:46) - Transitioning from Being an agent to focusing on putting on events

(08:40) - The Hustle to keep a venue booked, intricacies of booking in NYC

(11:35) - The founding of Elsewhere, one of the most incredible venues in Brooklyn, and Rami’s process in raising 3.5m to get the job done

(23:55) - Successes and challenges of Elsewhere’s first year, scaling to a staff of hundreds, and booking over 600 shows a year

(27:25) - Evolving beyond day to day talent buyer, to creating strategy for a team, and keeping Elsewhere booked 

(46:43) - Hot Questions: how elections affect the scene, the future of elsewhere, Rami’s soul searching and personal aspirations for the future, music venues in NYC and raising costs, the battle between staying independent and fending off consolidation, the future growth of the worldwide touring industry

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More on ⁠⁠Prism⁠⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism - ⁠⁠Matt Ford⁠⁠

Rami's LinkedIn

Opening Music - ⁠⁠Papooz - The Garde⁠

Elsewhere - ⁠ https://www.elsewhere.club/

In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with Bruce Finkelman, Managing Partner of 16 on Center, to uncover the secrets behind building an independent music venue empire in Chicago. From the founding story of 16 On Center to expanding multiple venues, we explore the economics of owning your own venue space, the evolution of running a venue from 1995 to 2024, and the challenges of staying independent in an industry dominated by giants like Live Nation and Ticketmaster. Bruce also shares insights into building a sustainable team, creating iconic venues like The Salt Shed, and his vision for the future of the music industry.

Chapters
(00:10) -Bruce’s story and the founding story of 16 On Center
(09:53) - The first empty bottle
(13:38) - Expanding to multiple venues
(27:14) - Economics: Owning the dirt at your venue + The evolution of running a venue from 1995 to 2024
(35:31) -Attracting to talent and Building a company that employs and sustains 600 people
(41:30) - The creation story of The Salt Shed
(48:00) - Making the jump to book larger rooms
(52:00) - Fastball questions - Using Prism and the tech stack to organize a massive amount of concerts, Secrets to building a succesful operation, the battle to stay independent, Live Nation, Ticketmaster and the DOJ.
(1:00:10) - Plans for the future (or lack thereof), the future of the industry

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More on ⁠Prism⁠

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Meet the Podcast Host/CEO of Prism - ⁠Matt Ford⁠

Opening Music - ⁠Papooz - The Garde

16 on Center
https://www.16oncenterchicago.com/