"When we get present to where we are in our own lives, miracles happen."

This conversation has roots. Deb Kulcsar, outdoor development and education extraordinaire, hired Jamie as an outdoor educator for the Science Discovery wilderness camp program. This conversation is a weaving of past and present, education and environment, the beauty of being connected to nature, and the pain of losing its preciousness as life changes.

We hear about Deb's early and intuitive hit of knowing that she had to focus on outdoor education, and the consequent prolific career in outdoor education that followed.

She and Jamie talk about meeting wolves face-to-face, the gift of being an outdoor educator, and honoring the indigenous land that we recreate on.

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Email Deb at [email protected] and learn more about Find Your Ground Coaching here.

Contributors: Jamie Blackburn (host, creator, producer). Deb Kulcsar (Guest). Alex Lee-Ammons and For The Love Media (Producer, Editor, Cover Art and Design). Original music by Sounds Like Sander.