The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast

The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast

By Michelle PascoeBusinessMarketingManagement
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The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast episodes

  • Who Owns the Service Promise When AI Gets It Wrong?

    When AI gets a hospitality booking or guest promise wrong, the venue still owns it, and the fix falls to the person standing in front of the guest. Michelle Pascoe, Certified Speaking Professional and hospitality training expert, explains why venues must train staff to know when to trust a system, when to override it, and how to recover gracefully.

    If your booking system promised a guest something your floor couldn’t deliver tonight, would your team know they’re allowed to fix it?

    Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.


    Description

    In this solo episode, Michelle wraps up October by bringing together three conversations: customer experience and loyalty strategist James McIntyre, executive mindset and performance coach Danica Smith, and Tracey Boeck, Executive Manager of Hospitality and Customer Experience at Maroochydore RSL.

    Every booking platform, loyalty app and chatbot you put in front of a guest is making promises on your behalf. James McIntyre calls this promise governance, and he argues it is a leadership question first, a training question second and a technology question last. Danica Smith shows what happens when leaders chase AI rankings and lose sight of the guest, while Tracey Boeck shows what it looks like when a club gives its young team real knowledge and a reason to care.

    Service recovery works because a person with permission can fix the moment before the guest walks away. Michelle shares a recent Hunter Valley dining experience where an online booking for an outdoor table couldn’t be honoured, and a complimentary drink in the bar turned disappointment into one of the nicest parts of the day.

    Good customer service isn't about the tools you buy. It's about whether the person in front of your customer has what they need, right then, to make a good call.


    Key Takeaways

    • Every booking system, loyalty app and chatbot makes promises to guests on the venue’s behalf, so leaders must decide what those systems are allowed to promise.
    • AI should handle predictable, transactional tasks, while people own service recovery, special occasions and anything ambiguous.
    • AI is never set and forget, because it only knows the information the venue keeps feeding it.
    • Frontline teams now need a new skill: knowing when to trust the system, when to override it and how to recover gracefully when it gets something wrong.
    • Giving young staff the reason behind the service, plus product knowledge from local suppliers, turns a standard expectation into a memorable experience.

    • Chapters

      00:00 - Welcome to the October wrap-up
      01:13 - Three guests, three angles on hospitality customer service
      02:54 - Where AI belongs in the hospitality guest journey
      04:01 - What AI should handle and what humans must own
      05:10 - Promise governance: who owns a broken promise when AI gets it wrong
      05:42 - Why AI in hospitality is never set and forget
      06:43 - You can’t automate your way out of overwhelm
      08:12 - How IKEA retrained staff instead of replacing them with AI
      08:32 - When a staff member saved the sale after the tech failed
      09:27 - How Maroochydore RSL equips young staff to deliver great customer service
      10:07 - The Splendour in the Grass syndrome and exceeding guest expectations
      11:18 - Supplier education: the difference between expectation and experience
      12:40 - A booking mishap turned into a great guest experience
      14:19 - The new frontline skill: trust the system, override it, recover well
      15:20 - Your November challenge for hospitality leaders
      15:36 - How to train your team for service recovery


      Next Steps

      - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast

      - Join Michelle’s newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog

      - Book customer service workshops, the Middle Management Movement and the Executive Leaders Movement, tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


      Work with Michelle
      Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally.

      Her customer service workshops, Middle Management Movement and Executive Leaders Movement give your people what they need from the frontline through to your senior leadership team: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


      17 min
    • Can You Automate Your Way Out of Hospitality Team Burnout?

      AI in hospitality improves efficiency, but internal customer experience, how supported and informed your team feels, is what drives guest experience and revenue. Certified Speaking Professional Michelle Pascoe and guest experience coach Danica Smith explain why leaders must protect the human basics before chasing new technology.
      What happens when a hotel CEO is focused on ChatGPT rankings while breakfast scores sit at 2 out of 5?
      Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
      Description

      In this episode, Michelle chats with Danica Smith, an executive mindset and performance coach and founder of Morningstar GX, with nearly 15 years across hotels and hospitality technology. Her philosophy is simple: you cannot automate your way out of overwhelm, and guest experience is revenue. She shares how one hotel group she advises was fixated on its AI search ranking while its breakfast scored 2 out of 5 on the OTAs, and how a client chose a new property management system by letting her staff judge which vendor's leaders sat at the bar and got to know the team.
      Can technology support a hospitality team without replacing it? Yes, because the leaders who get it right use AI to free their people up, and they talk openly with staff about what is changing. Psychological safety works because it sits alongside revenue and guest experience strategy rather than being handed to HR as a tick box.
      The conversation also covers leading five generations at once, why middle managers are burning out, and the one thing an overwhelmed GM can do tonight.
      Key Takeaways

      • Chasing AI visibility while service basics slip creates overwhelm for leaders and their teams.
      • Internal customer experience depends on leaders having transparent conversations with staff about AI and job security.
      • Psychological safety belongs alongside revenue and guest experience strategy, not in a separate HR program.
      • Hospitality businesses should test technology vendors inside their own venue before signing, as one of Danica's clients did when choosing a PMS.
      • Leading multigenerational teams requires mentoring, knowledge sharing and more flexible rosters.
      • Chapters
        00:00 Welcome and introducing Danica Smith
        01:26 You cannot automate your way out of overwhelm
        02:51 The hotel chasing ChatGPT rankings with 2 out of 5 breakfast scores
        04:14 What AI productivity tracking misses about hospitality staff
        06:33 Will AI replace hospitality jobs? Retraining versus replacing staff
        10:57 Why hospitality teams need emotional intelligence training
        11:54 The mindset shift that separates leaders who adapt from leaders who burn out
        13:07 Why fewer women step into hospitality middle management
        15:49 What psychological safety looks like for hospitality leaders
        18:03 How to talk to your team about AI and job security
        19:24 How to lead multigenerational teams in hospitality
        22:01 Hospitality staff shortages and losing middle managers since Covid
        24:54 What AI cannot read during a wedding show round
        26:51 Flexible rosters for Gen Z and Gen Alpha
        28:24 The gap between hospitality tech promises and team readiness
        30:12 The bar test: how one hotel group chose its PMS vendor
        32:13 Why hotels need a strategy, not just the tech capability
        35:11 One shift for an overwhelmed GM this week
        36:59 How to connect with Danica Smith
        Next Steps

        - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
        - Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog
        - Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms
        About Michelle

        Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally, including Customer Excellence and Engagement Programs, the Middle Management Movement and the Executive Leaders Movement.

        Find out more: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms
        About Danica
        Danica Smith is an executive mindset and performance coach specialising in guest experience, business growth and human behaviour, and the founder of Morningstar GX. She spent almost eight years at ReviewPro and Shiji Group, becoming global director of partnerships, and now advises hotels and hospitality technology companies on guest experience strategy, positioning and leadership performance. Danica is co-host and European correspondent for Hospitality Daily and lectures in strategic management at CETT Barcelona School of Tourism, Hospitality and Gastronomy.

        Website: www.morningstargx.com

        40 min
      • Where Should AI Stop in the Hospitality Guest Journey?

        AI in hospitality should stop where the guest journey stops being predictable. Customer experience strategist James McIntyre tells Certified Speaking Professional Michelle Pascoe that AI belongs in the functional layer: wait times, routine requests and standard upsells. Service recovery, moments that matter like birthdays and anniversaries, and anything ambiguous must stay with a human.

        What happens to guest trust when your chatbot makes a promise your team can’t keep?


        DESCRIPTION

        In this episode, Michelle is joined by James McIntyre, creator of the ACTIVATE Framework, to work through where AI earns its place in the 2026 guest experience and where it needs to stay out of the way.

        Keeping a person in charge of service recovery matters because a guest who is only mildly disappointed can drop from a seven out of ten to a one when they reach a chatbot with no phone number and no human to talk to.

        James introduces promise governance, the idea that every commitment an AI agent makes about your brand needs the same guardrails as a commitment made by your team. He treats it as a leadership question first, then a training question, with technology last.

        The conversation also turns to loyalty and membership programs. James estimates the average Australian belongs to between eight and eleven loyalty programs. He explains that trust breaks the moment a brand forgets something a guest has already shared, whether a person or an AI was meant to remember it.


        KEY TAKEAWAYS

        • AI should own the predictable, low-impact layer of the guest journey, including wait times, routine requests and standard upsells.
        • Service recovery, moments that matter and anything ambiguous need a human leading the interaction, not just a human in the loop.
        • Promise governance makes leaders accountable for every commitment an AI agent makes to a guest, backed by ongoing training and current data.
        • The ACTIVATE Framework is an eight-step method for deciding where AI belongs in the customer journey, starting with an audit of the real journey.
        • Loyalty programs build trust when venues remember what guests have shared and prompt members to redeem their rewards.

        • CHAPTERS

          00:00 - Introducing James McIntyre, customer experience and loyalty strategist
          01:23 - How to use AI in hospitality without losing the human touch
          06:36 - Who owns the broken promise when an AI chatbot over-promises
          09:24 - The risk of AI tools over-informing and over-promising to guests
          13:03 - Does AI build or erode trust in loyalty and membership programs?
          16:42 - Why reminding members to redeem rewards keeps them loyal
          18:52 - How to reward long-term customers, not just new ones
          22:12 - How to reactivate disengaged customers using AI and test-and-learn
          25:56 - The ACTIVATE Framework for AI-enabled customer experience
          29:57 - The first guest moment a club CEO or hotel GM should hand to AI


          NEXT STEPS

          - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast

          - Join Michelle’s newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog

          - Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


          WORK WITH MICHELLE
          Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally.

          Explore her Customer Excellence and Engagement Programs, the Middle Management Movement and Mystery Shopping Business Insight Reports: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


          ABOUT JAMES MCINTYRE
          James McIntyre is an Australian-based customer experience, loyalty and growth strategist specialising in customer journey mapping, lifecycle marketing, retention, loyalty strategy, CX design and AI-powered personalisation. He has held senior consulting and leadership roles across Wesfarmers, OnePass, Flybuys, Medibank and Cash Rewards. James created the ACTIVATE Framework, an eight-step methodology for AI-enabled CX transformation, which comes with a free three-minute diagnostic.

          Learn more about the ACTIVATE Framework™ and take the free diagnostic: 8 questions, 3 minutes, for a personalised assessment of where your CX is leaking commercial value: https://jm-cx.co/activate-framework/

          34 min
        • Expectation vs Experience: What's the Difference?

          Customer experience beats customer expectation when a hospitality team understands the why behind great service, says Tracey Boeck, Executive Manager of Hospitality and Customer Experience at Maroochy RSL. Michelle Pascoe, Certified Speaking Professional, explores the exact systems, from hand-picked middle management to in-house market research, that get a 130-strong multigenerational team genuinely invested in the guest experience.
          What's the one thing about customer service that even great leaders still get wrong?
          In this episode, Michelle sits down with Tracey to unpack how a 130-strong, five-generation team gets pulled onto the same page about customer experience.
          Tracey's answer works because it's built on mechanics, not motivation. She hand-picks middle managers to shift culture from the inside, runs her own small in-house market research groups rather than outsourcing the work, and deliberately gathers what she calls "staff influencers" for honest feedback, even when it's not what she wants to hear. Her supplier education sessions turn nervous young staff into confident upsellers who can talk a customer through a rosé or a gin like they've been pouring it for years.
          The conversation lands on the idea that will stay with you: the difference between expectation and experience. Michelle and Tracey also cover why decor and fabric choices shape how a venue is remembered, and the one Monday-morning fix any hospitality leader can make before spending a dollar.
          KEY TAKEAWAYS

          • Why hand-picking middle management is the fastest way to shift culture across a multigenerational, 130-person team.
          • How running in-house market research groups, rather than outsourcing them, keeps a venue ahead of changing customer expectations.
          • Why gathering honest feedback from "staff influencers" matters even when the feedback isn't what you want to hear.
          • How supplier education sessions turn nervous young staff into confident, natural upsellers.
          • Why the gap between expectation and experience is the one thing most hospitality leaders still get wrong.
          • NEXT STEPS

            - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
            - Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: michellepascoe.com/blog
            - Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms
            ABOUT MICHELLE

            Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally. 

            Book customer service workshops and middle management programs: michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms
            ABOUT TRACEY

            Tracey Boeck is Executive Manager of Hospitality and Customer Experience at Maroochy RSL, overseeing hospitality operations, marketing, loyalty, sponsorships, donations, customer journey, and promotions. With almost 30 years across hotels, restaurants, and clubs, including executive operational roles with Parkroyal Hotels and the SPHC Group, Tracey built her expertise in customer behaviour, loyalty, and the psychology of the customer experience.

            Website: https://maroochyrsl.com.au/

            44 min
          • Why Your Baby Boomers Aren't Going Anywhere, and Shouldn't

            Baby boomers aren't universally heading for retirement in Australia's hospitality and club industry, and overlooking their experience is a leadership mistake, not a succession plan, says Michelle Pascoe, a Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years' hospitality experience. Many senior team members stay for financial, social, and purpose-driven reasons, not ambition.

            So if your senior team members aren't clocking out for retirement, what are they actually still showing up for?


            In this solo episode, Michelle draws together four conversations from across the month, with Kenny Ridgell, Cassie Davison, Patty Aubery, and Phillipa Fuller, to challenge the assumption that older staff are automatically on their way out.

            Leading a genuinely multigenerational team works because it treats resistance to change as a leadership design problem, not a generational one. Michelle explains why the experience sitting inside your most senior team members is often the exact knowledge your emerging managers need, and why some of your longest-serving people may be entering the most capable chapter of their working life rather than approaching the exit.

            The episode also names the real, practical reasons senior staff choose to stay: not wanting more responsibility, the financial reality of retirement, the social connection a shift provides, and the simple need to feel part of something. Michelle Pascoe closes with a direct challenge to club CEOs and GMs: stop sorting teams by age, and start planning succession years before it becomes urgent.


            KEY TAKEAWAYS

            - Why treating resistance to change as generational rather than a leadership design problem holds teams back
            - Why decades of hard-earned experience make senior staff a hospitality leader's best resource for protecting emerging managers from burnout
            - Why some long-serving team members are entering their most confident, capable chapter rather than winding down
            - The real reasons senior staff choose to stay, from financial necessity to social connection and a sense of purpose
            - Why the hospitality succession gap is closer than most clubs are planning for, and what keeping the ladder down actually means

            NEXT STEPS

            - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast

            - Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog


            ABOUT MICHELLE

            Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry and Disney Institute Alumni credentials, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally.

            Book the Middle Management Movement, Executive Leaders Movement, or leadership coaching: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms

            13 min
          • How Can Women Build Confidence to Lead in Hospitality?

            Female leadership in hospitality grows when women stop waiting to tick every box before applying for senior roles. Michelle Pascoe, Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the club industry, talks with Phillipa Fuller, Secretary Manager of Club Quirindi, about confidence, mentorship, and leading as a single mother in a regional club.

            What if the only thing standing between you and that senior leadership role is belief, not experience?


            In this episode, Michelle Pascoe sits down with Phillipa Fuller, Secretary Manager of Club Quirindi in the New England region of New South Wales, to talk about what it actually takes for women to move into senior leadership in the club industry.

            Phillipa's started her journey through the industry as a waitress in a coastal pub and moved through various regional clubs and hospitality venues before landing at Club Quirindi eighteen months ago. Along the way, there was one mentor who changed the trajectory of her career simply by believing in her before Phillipa believed in herself.

            Female leadership in hospitality often stalls not from a lack of ability but from a confidence gap. Women tend to wait until they can tick every box on a job description, while men apply after ticking two or three. Confidence works because it is built through mentorship, networking through organisations like the CMA, and a willingness to ask why when turned down for a role.

            Phillipa also speaks candidly about leading as a single mother, the importance of delegation, setting boundaries, and communicating openly with her board about what she needs to make both work. 


            Key Takeaways

            • Phillipa's journey from waitress to Secretary Manager across five clubs in thirteen years.
            • Why women in hospitality often wait to tick every box before applying for senior roles, while men do not.
            • How one mentor changed the course of Phillipa's career in club management.
            • Why delegation and setting boundaries are essential skills for leaders balancing family and senior roles.
            • What needs to shift culturally for more women to see themselves as CEOs, secretary managers, and general managers in clubs.

            • Next Steps

              - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
              - Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog
              - Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


              About Michelle

              Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally.

              Book customer service workshops and middle management programs: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


              About Phillipa

              Phillipa Fuller is the Secretary Manager of Club Quirindi in the New England region of New South Wales, with thirteen years' experience across the registered club industry. She has led teams through amalgamation, regional leadership roles, and a return from outside the industry, and now brings a practical, authentic perspective on leadership, resilience, and balancing single parenthood with executive responsibility.

              Website: https://www.clubquirindi.com.au/

              36 min
            • How Is AI Changing the Way Guests Find Your Venue?

              AI tools like Claude, ChatGPT and Gemini are changing how members and guests find, research and book hospitality venues, often skipping a club's homepage entirely. Michelle Pascoe, Certified Speaking Professional and 30-year hospitality training expert, explains why clubs need AI-ready websites, faster enquiry responses and new weekly metrics to stay visible in this shift.

              So how exactly is AI rerouting the path your members and guests take to find and book your club, and what should you fix first?

              In this episode, Michelle Pascoe sits down with Kenny Ridgell, founder of Ridge Media, to unpack what the AI shift actually means for clubs and hospitality venues right now, not in some distant future.

              Kenny built his business by treating marketing like a science experiment, testing one variable at a time instead of guessing. That approach works because it isolates what's actually driving results, rather than crediting the last click before a booking. The conversation moves from there into the practical detail every club leader needs: why AI platforms are now sending prospective members straight to a booking or room page, bypassing the homepage story a club has spent years building. Yes, this matters, because if that page doesn't answer the visitor's question in seconds, the enquiry is lost to a competitor with a better-prepared page.

              KEY TAKEAWAYS

              • Why AI platforms increasingly send prospective members straight to a booking page, skipping a club's homepage story entirely.
              • How the hub and spoke landing page model helps clubs get cited by AI search tools and match content to different member and guest avatars.
              • Why branded search and direct traffic are two of the clearest early warning signs of a marketing problem.
              • Why form enquiries and email response speed matter more than call volume when judging genuine interest.
              • How combining AI drafting with a real human response builds the trust that turns an enquiry into a booking.

              • NEXT STEPS

                - Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
                - Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: michellepascoe.com/blog
                - Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


                ABOUT MICHELLE

                Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally.

                Book customer service workshops and middle management programs: michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


                ABOUT KENNY

                Kenny Ridgell is the founder of Ridge Media, a marketing agency he built while still a student at the College of Charleston. He applies the scientific method to marketing, treating every campaign as a testable hypothesis, and works with hospitality clients including hotels and club memberships on data-driven, AI-ready growth strategies.

                Website: https://ridgemediallc.com/

                47 min
              • From Behind The Scenes To Stepping Up

                Hospitality leaders often stay behind the scenes long after they're ready to step up. Patty Aubery, co-author of the billion-dollar Chicken Soup for the Soul brand, joins Certified Speaking Professional Michelle Pascoe to reveal what it actually takes to move from doing the work to owning your voice and your title.

                What's stopping you from stepping out from behind the scenes and into the role you've already earned?

                In this conversation, Michelle sits down with Patty Aubery, who spent decades behind the scenes helping build Chicken Soup for the Soul into a billion-dollar publishing brand before she stepped out from behind it to build her own name.

                Patty Aubery co-authored more than a dozen Chicken Soup for the Soul titles and helped grow the brand to over 300 published books, all while staying largely invisible behind two famous names. As Patty explains, self-doubt is a habit rather than a fixed trait, and habits change through repetition and support. She shares the exact formula she now teaches women to structure a talk, a pitch, or a promotion case, so stepping into the spotlight becomes a skill rather than a personality trait.

                Michelle brings this conversation directly to hospitality leaders because the same pattern shows up on the floor, in the back office, and in the boardroom: talented people running the operation from behind the scenes while someone else gets named on the cover. Yes, it's time to step up, because teams follow people who are willing to be seen, not just people willing to work hard.

                Key Takeaways

                • Patty explains how she went from answering a "secretary wanted" ad to co-authoring more than a dozen New York Times bestselling Chicken Soup for the Soul titles.
                • Why capable leaders stay behind the scenes instead of stepping up, and how asking "if not you, who?" reframes the decision.
                • The practical formula Patty now teaches women to structure a talk, a pitch, or a promotion case without needing to be a natural performer.
                • Why men apply for roles at 50% qualified while women wait until they feel 98% ready, and what leaders can do about it.
                • The mindset shift, treating self-doubt as a habit rather than a fixed trait, that helped Patty step out from behind the scenes and build her own authority.

                • Next Steps

                  • Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
                  • Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog
                  • Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms

                  • About Michelle

                    Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally. 

                    Book customer service workshops and middle management programs: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


                    About Patty

                    Patty Aubery spent decades behind the scenes helping build Chicken Soup for the Soul into a billion-dollar publishing brand, co-authoring more than a dozen New York Times bestselling titles and rising from secretary to Vice President of Operations. She is the founder of Goal Friends, a non-profit supporting marginalised and incarcerated women, and now works as a speaker and coach helping women stop hiding, start speaking, and give themselves full permission to be seen, heard, and fully expressed. 

                    Connect with Patty: https://www.pattyaubery.com/

                    46 min
                  • Hospitality Leadership: Why Working Harder Isn't the Answer

                    Hospitality leadership means protecting your energy, not working harder. On The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast, Certified Speaking Professional Michelle Pascoe talks with Kith & Kin Hospitality founder Cassie Davison about why sustainable leadership starts with clear purpose, defined values and genuine self-care, not longer hours.

                    So if working harder isn't the answer, what actually is?

                    In this episode, Michelle sits down with Cassie to unpack why so many hospitality owners equate hard work with good leadership, and why that belief keeps running them into the ground.

                    Sustainable hospitality leadership works because it treats energy as a strategic asset, not a personal sacrifice. Cassie explains that when you're running an independent venue you are, in her words, the pebble in the pond: your energy ripples out to your team, your customers, your community and your reputation. Protecting that energy isn't indulgent, it's the first line of business strategy.

                    The conversation also tackles the loneliness of ownership, why 99.6% of UK hospitality businesses are SMEs yet rarely get advice built for their reality, and why chasing every trend from global chains leaves independent operators exhausted and disconnected from their own purpose. Cassie shares the five pillars from her book, Stand Out Hospitality, that help owners simplify decision-making: high standards, standing out, defining identity, building belonging and telling your story.

                    Key Takeaways

                    • Why working harder is not the same as leading well, and why burnout is so common in hospitality ownership.
                    • How protecting your own energy is a business strategy, not a personal luxury.
                    • Why loneliness is one of the biggest hidden costs of running an independent hospitality business.
                    • Why articulating your values and purpose to your team changes how they show up at work.
                    • The five pillars from Stand Out Hospitality that simplify decision-making for hospitality owners.
                    • Next Steps

                      • Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
                      • Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog
                      • Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms

                      • About Michelle

                        Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally. 

                        Book customer service workshops and middle management programs: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms


                        About Cassie

                        Cassie Davison is a hospitality leader, author of Stand Out Hospitality, business coach and founder of Kith & Kin, a movement for independent hospitality operators and their wider community. With over 30 years in the industry, Cassie has built, grown and led award winning pubs, cafes, fine dining restaurants and festivals, earning an MBA and more than 25 business and hospitality industry awards.

                        Download Stand Out Hospitality for free: https://standouthospitality.scoreapp.com/
                        Visit Cassie's website: https://kithkinhospitality.co.uk

                        54 min
                      • The Real Reason Your Community Work Isn't Sticking

                        Community work fails in hospitality venues when it relies on good intentions instead of deliberate leadership habits. Michelle Pascoe, a Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in hospitality, argues that community connection, generational culture, and crisis readiness only take hold through repeated, trained leadership discipline, not marketing or one-off compliance sessions.

                        So what does it actually take to make community work stick in your club, instead of fading after the launch event?

                        In this solo episode, Michelle draws together three conversations from across the month and names the pattern connecting them: none of it holds unless someone is deliberately building it.

                        Community storytelling works because it starts internally, not externally. Michelle unpacks why even industry insiders can go years without knowing the scale of what their own club contributes to the community, and why that gap is a leadership habit problem, not a marketing budget problem.

                        Generational leadership works because it's a trained skill, not a personality trait. Michelle makes the case that translating a club's values across an eighteen-year-old and a sixty-five-year-old on the same roster is a learnable capability, no different to reading a financial report, and one most managers have simply never been taught.

                        Crisis readiness works because it's built through repetition, not a single briefing. Michelle draws a direct line between the discipline that prepares a venue for a crisis moment and the discipline that builds shared culture across every generation on the roster.

                        Every club is one resignation away from losing the person holding its culture and community relationships together. Recruitment doesn't solve that. Structured leadership development does.


                        Key Takeaways

                        • Why even long-serving hospitality professionals can remain unaware of the true scale of their own club's community contribution.
                        • Why community storytelling has to start internally, with staff and patrons, before it ever reaches the wider public.
                        • Why translating a club's values across a workforce spanning five generations is a trained skill, not a natural personality trait.
                        • Why crisis readiness and generational culture are built through the same discipline, repeated deliberate practice over time.
                        • Why losing one key middle manager can mean losing the person holding a club's culture and community relationships together.

                        • Next Steps

                          • Subscribe to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify: https://www.michellepascoe.com/The-Michelle-Pascoe-Hospitality-Podcast
                          • Join Michelle's newsletter for leadership, culture, and service excellence: https://www.michellepascoe.com/blog
                          • Book customer service workshops and middle management programs tailored to clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms

                          • About Michelle

                            Michelle Pascoe helps hospitality leaders build multigenerational teams, lift service standards, and embed values-led culture. A Certified Speaking Professional with over 30 years in the hospitality industry, Michelle delivers bespoke keynotes, workshops, and leadership programs for clubs, hotels, and hospitality venues across Australia and internationally. 

                            Book customer service workshops and middle management programs: https://www.michellepascoe.com/traininganddevelopmentprograms

                            15 min

                          About The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast

                          From the publisher's feed

                          Welcome to The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast, where we explore the heart of the hospitality industry through conversations with leaders, experts, and innovators. Each episode brings you…

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