The Modern Man Podcast

Chris Voss's book made Ted Phaeton $25,000 on a single contract — so he got the FBI's former lead international kidnapping negotiator on The Modern Man Podcast to find out why the same tactics that work on bank robbers work on bosses, clients, and wives. Never Split the Difference author Chris Voss breaks down tactical empathy, the neuroscience of feeling understood, and why "win-win" is a lie that costs you.

Voss spent 24 years with the FBI, led international kidnapping negotiations, and now runs The Black Swan Group. In this conversation he walks through the oxytocin mechanism behind connection (feel understood → more honest → less demanding), the two mental switches to flip before a hard conversation (curiosity and gratitude), the late-night FM DJ voice and the Chase Manhattan Bank standoff where it got a gunman to say "I trust you" in ninety seconds, why compromise guarantees both sides are unhappy, the Christmas-tree story that shows what to do instead, why empathy is a man's tool and Rick Rubin is its living definition, the hijack moments that kill listening ("I understand" and "Feel, Felt, Found"), "that's right" vs. "you're right," why "no" makes people feel safe, and why a collaborative negotiation pays off for years after the deal closes.

Plus: Ted's full $25K negotiation story, the general manager who came out to shake his hand, and Chris on girl-dad shotgun etiquette.

Chapters:

00:00 The $25,000 receipt

01:11 Welcome — Chris Voss

01:14 Ted's contract story

02:20 Why hostage tactics work in the boardroom — the oxytocin mechanism

04:40 "The need to feel understood is as important as the need to be loved"

06:32 Tactical empathy when you're tired, hurt, and annoyed

08:42 Damasio — emotion first, logic second ("that's the cornerstone")

09:54 Two switches before a hard conversation: curiosity and gratitude

10:46 Sean Stevenson — "This is happening for me, not to me"

11:30 THE LATE-NIGHT FM DJ VOICE

12:58 Chase Manhattan Bank — "I trust you" in 90 seconds

16:29 "I'm coachable" — the second set of ears

19:11 WHY WIN-WIN IS A LIE

21:12 "Why don't we compromise? That way we'll both be unhappy."

22:18 The Christmas-tree story — dig into motivation

26:13 Empathy is not sympathy — the quicksand rule

27:40 Rick Rubin — the living definition of empathy

29:40 Empathy is a man's tool — the Rock of Gibraltar

30:04 Girl-dad shotgun etiquette

30:52 The Savvy Whisperer

32:48 LISTENING IS COMPREHENSION — the hijack moments

34:15 "Feel, Felt, Found" is a hijack

37:04 "THAT'S RIGHT" vs. "YOU'RE RIGHT"

40:03 "Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?"

40:47 WHY "NO" MAKES PEOPLE FEEL SAFE

42:20 Tim Ross — switching from yes-momentum to no

45:56 Ted said no three times 48:04 Collaboration, not manipulation — intention has a smell

51:16 The Art and Science of Tactical Empathy 2026 — Nov 3 + certifications

54:39 The heaviest question

55:55 Ted's recap

🤝 Connect with Chris Voss:

Book: Never Split the Difference Course: The Art and Science of Tactical Empathy 2026 — live online, starts November 3 (first-ever certification track)

Website: blackswanltd.com

Instagram:

@blackswangroupltd

@thefbinegotiator

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My uncle left Haiti with nothing but faith. Bishop Daniel Phaeton — "Papi Daniel" to everyone who loves him — joins his nephew Ted Phaeton on The Modern Man Podcast for the most personal episode in the show's history. A man who built a life, a marriage of 58 years, and a ministry in America, and who now spends what he has building a free school for impoverished children in El Salvador.

Papi Daniel came to America from Haiti as a young man with an engineering dream and a wife expecting their first child in a Chicago winter — so he joined the Army during the Vietnam era to provide. He was baptized in Belton, Texas by a pastor who is still his pastor today. He pastored for 20 years. In 2020, a blood clot lodged between the chambers of his heart, his lungs 80% blocked, and he gave a surgeon permission to perform a procedure that could save him or kill him — awake. He walked out on the Tuesday after Easter. Everything he says in this episode comes after that.

In this conversation: growing up shaped by necessities vs. a generation shaped by opportunities, being well-to-do in principles when you're not well-to-do in money, why "who you are is what you share," building from reality instead of hope, why life is an equilibrium and not a balance scale (and how to set your margin), obligations vs. priorities for fathers, the handwritten-note challenge (Ted doesn't pass), loving your wife "for you" vs. loving her as Christ loves, learning to be a pedestal, the courage to stop hiding, "I just stopped being stupid," why he's building in El Salvador and not Haiti, and the promise he made about every breath.

Chapters:

00:00 Well-to-Do in Principles 01:36 Welcome — Papi Daniel 02:11 Necessities vs. Opportunities 04:28 Who You Are Is What You Share 07:01 Providing Through Hardship 08:39 Where Faith Began 11:29 Leaving Haiti 13:02 Dreams vs. Reality 15:38 Grandma's Piano Story 18:45 Build on Reality, Not Hope 23:38 Finding Balance in Life 27:36 Obligations vs. Priorities 30:01 The Handwritten Note 32:55 The Army and Christ 34:59 Facing the Enemy 38:21 Hiding From God 40:40 The Courage to Stop Hiding 42:44 Ted Connects the Lessons 45:00 Learning to Love Selflessly 46:35 Learn to Be a Pedestal 48:40 Applying God's Word 52:20 I Just Stopped Being Stupid 53:09 Uncle or Pastor? 57:06 Living for Today vs. Tomorrow 1:01:37 A Vision Bigger Than Me 1:04:12 A Better Future for Haiti 1:06:39 How to Help 1:08:58 Ted Honors His Uncle 1:11:11 The Next Breath 1:14:23 The Hospital and the Promise 1:19:47 Ted's Recap

🤝 Support Papi Daniel's vision: Bethesda Apostolic Center — bethesdahope.org $40/month supports one child: education, daily lunch, and uniform. Classes begin January.

👉🏿 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict, sovereign life.

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Kevin Orosz — high-performance coach, retreat facilitator, spoken word poet, and co-author of Sex Masculinity God — went from materialist psychology grad, to full-woo cotton-cape-in-Bali era (ayahuasca, Lakota sweat lodges, peyote), and back to the middle. On The Modern Man Podcast with Ted Phaeton, he unpacks the Polarity Framework, the "whose voice is that" identity reframe, and why the answer to modern masculinity is playing with the full deck — not half.

Kevin runs The Fellowship (men's community) and The Polarity Lab (for men, women, singles, and couples) and hosts The KO Show podcast. In this conversation he walks through the unapologetic generalist path (and when to be one), why every successful person hypnotizes themselves (Kobe, MJ, Bruce Lee, Hormozi — same practice), Joseph Campbell's rule for cutting your own path through the woods, the ping-pong journey from Western materialism to Eastern mysticism and back to the balanced middle, the Polarity Framework (masculine and feminine as two channels — choose your dominant pole and live from it), the inner-circuit vs outer-circuit tribal division of labor (women run the village, men run the perimeter), the E.O. Wilson trap (Paleolithic emotions + medieval institutions + god-like tech), and the bonfire moment that anchors the whole masculine experience.

Plus: how to tell if you've lost your edge, why the modern comfort zone is quietly emasculating men, why lone-wolfing costs more than most men realize, how to know if you should specialize or generalize, the difference between the fear-of-rejection ceiling and the actual ceiling in your career, and the practical question every married man should be asking his wife tonight.

Chapters:

00:00 Whose Voice Is That? 01:30 Welcome to The Modern Man Podcast 03:24 The Unapologetic Generalist 05:41 Break the Rules Like an Artist 08:47 Joseph Campbell: Find Your Own Path 10:37 The Life You Haven't Lived 14:54 Reclaiming Your Edge 17:06 Whose Voice Is That? — Identity 20:18 The Power of Self-Hypnosis 22:33 Who's Controlling Your Attention? 24:26 The Spiritual Journey 26:27 East Meets West 29:23 The Polarity Framework 31:38 Choose Your Dominant Pole 33:04 Losing Your Masculine Polarity 37:21 Ted's Birthday Scavenger Hunt 39:31 Inner vs. Outer Circuit 41:50 Ancient Emotions, Modern Technology 43:14 The Body Is the Foundation 44:00 Where to Find Kevin 46:08 The Bonfire: What Men Need 47:27 Ted's Recap

🤝 Connect with Kevin Orosz:

Facebook: kevinoroszlan

Instagram:

the fellowship brotherhood

kevinjorosz

LinkedIn: kevinorosz

Linktree: kev_oroszlan

👉🏿 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

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Pat Barber trained everyone from beginners to elite CrossFit Games athletes for 20+ years — and none of it prepared him for the real work of raising four boys. He joins Ted Phaeton on The Modern Man Podcast to unpack the family motto that became his brand, the co-regulation truth every dad needs to hear, and why fathers don't need more motivation or information — they need action.

Pat is a longtime fitness coach and the founder of The Father's Guild (a men's community on Skool launching alongside this episode). His signature family motto — Harder to Kill, Easier to Love — is the two-dimensional standard he's helping fathers build their lives around.

In this conversation: why parenthood is your next opponent (and it's not your kid, it's you), the four-nervous-system reality of raising four boys (each one progressively harder), the fatherhood regulation stack (movement + food + personal time + honesty at every level), the 9.99-vs-12.99 confession that revealed even his own "little lies" were undermining his regulation, why fathers need action instead of more information, the self-efficacy ladder from Dr. Bandura (vicarious experiences + verbal persuasion + community + small successes), Pat's contrarian reframe that "the gym is fake stress" and why training to "look good naked" is short-sighted, distress vs. eustress (recovery is what turns stress into growth), Victor Frankl's rule that any amount of suffering fills the human soul equally, and Pat's honest closing answer about his own damaged relationship with money and clout.

Chapters:

00:00 Your Next Opponent Is You

01:29 Welcome Brother — Ted's Intro

03:48 Harder to Kill, Easier to Love

06:32 Ted's Girl-Dad Range

08:09 The Parenting Realization

11:19 The Unspoken Communication Shift

13:10 Co-Regulation

14:31 Four Boys, Four Nervous Systems

18:17 The Fatherhood Regulation Stack

20:13 Why Pat Started Waking Up Early

22:59 Honesty as the Foundation

25:42 The $9.99 vs. $12.99 Confession

27:16 Fathers Need Action, Not Information

31:31 Self-Efficacy — The Ignition Switch

32:31 Vicarious Experiences & Small Wins

36:17 The Gym Is Fake Stress

37:20 The Anti-Vanity Callout

39:22 Ted on Hyrox Training

42:55 Distress vs. Eustress

45:41 Breath Work

48:11 Frankl's Rule on Suffering

50:42 The Nines and Tens of Life

51:02 Where to Find Pat

52:20 The Heaviest Question

56:56 Ted's Recap

🤝 Connect with Pat Barber:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thefathersguild

Website: https://www.thefathersguild.com/

The Tool Box : https://toolbox.thefathersguild.com/

Community: The Father's Guild on Skool Everywhere:

Join The Guild

skool.com: Thefathersguild

👉🏿 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

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#modernmanpodcast #nobleknights #patbarber #fatherhood #hardertokill #mensmentalhealth #dadlife

Joel Gandara fled Cuba on an overcrowded boat at age 4, grew up in poverty, and built and sold a multi-million-dollar men's apparel company — without ever having a master plan. He joins Ted Phaeton on The Modern Man Podcast to unpack the arc, the tactics, and the brotherhood he now runs for men who want more.

Joel is a Cuban refugee, a former apparel entrepreneur (he acquired 13 of 14 businesses that weren't publicly for sale — using handwritten notes as the opening move), and the founder of 31 Daily Challenges and The Brotherhood — an invitation-only community of 119 men across the country who meet the standard through his 31-day challenge process. His wife runs the equivalent for women.

In this conversation: the Garbage Pail Kids origin story (fourth-grade entrepreneur, out of necessity), why he never had a master plan and figured everything out along the way, the $160K cash-withdrawal moment that shifted his identity, why 100% of his risks got green-lit by his wife (and the exit-plan discipline that earned that trust), the organize-organize-organize principle that made his apparel company sale-ready without a scramble, the handwritten-note tactic that led to 13 acquisitions, the Brotherhood model (invitation-only, intentionally slow-growth, 2–5 new invites per class), why the lone wolf is losing more than he thinks, how to vet mentors ("how are they living, not what they show"), the anti-vanity discipline ($49 Timex, no mortgage, used truck bought cash — the more things you own, the more things break), and the line every married man should stitch on his wall: pick the damn place.

Chapters:

00:00 If It Was All You Knew 02:33 Growing Up in Poverty 04:50 The Garbage Pail Kids Hustle 07:21 Building a Multi-Million-Dollar Business 10:36 The $160K Identity Shift 12:57 The Midas-Touch Trap 13:22 Risk & Marriage 16:22 Organize Your Business 19:24 From Business to Brotherhood 22:40 Accountability & Brotherhood 27:31 The Lone Wolf 30:18 Choosing the Right Mentors 33:04 Success Without the Vanity 36:05 The 31-Day Challenge 39:05 The Handwritten Note 41:05 Face Your Fears 41:27 Be the Man 43:28 She's Not a Mind Reader 44:21 The Bigger Vision 46:53 Failure as a Gift 48:35 Ted's Recap

Community: The Brotherhood (invitation-only, after the 31-day challenge)

🤝 Connect with Joel Gandara:

Web:

joelgandara.com

31dailychallenges.com

YouTube: @JoelGandara

LinkedIn: joel_gandara

Facebook: joel_gandara.

Instagram: joelgandara

🤝 Connect with Jessica Gandara.:

Tiktok: @jessica.gandara3

X: @jessicagandara

YouTube: @jessicagandara24

👉🏿 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

Free eBook Here: Mastering Self-Development: Strategies of the New Masculine: https://rebrand.ly/m2ebook

⚔️JOIN THE NOBLE KNIGHTS MASTERMIND⚔️

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessgandara/

Daryl Williams Jr. was called a "detriment to student safety" his first year teaching. Two years later he was Teacher of the Year. He did it twice. On The Modern Man Podcast, Daryl sits down with Ted Phaeton to break down the transformation, the ceiling moment that made him walk away from his dream job, and the 3 Drivers of New Teacher Retention that any leader (in any industry) can steal.

Daryl is an educator, speaker, author of 99% Human, 1% Amazing, and the founder of a teacher-retention consulting company he launched in 2021 after sitting in a principal's chair being told he couldn't earn more than $64K as a first-year assistant principal despite years of impact. His mission: guide a million students toward lives of choice, not circumstance.

In this conversation: the terrible-teacher-to-2x-Teacher-of-the-Year transition (and what actually changed on the inside), the 99% Human / 1% Amazing framework (the DNA thesis that reframes your superpower), non-cognitive skills as the real predictor of long-term success (backed by University of Chicago research), the difference between settling and being content, the runaway question every operator needs to ask themselves — are you running to something or running from something — the 3 Drivers of New Teacher Retention (relevant far beyond education), the parent-teacher engagement research that fathers especially need to hear, and Daryl's signature line — everything is figure-outable.

Chapters:

00:00 Detriment to student safety

01:28 Welcome brother — Ted's intro

02:02 Terrible teacher (everybody said so)

03:38 The transition — MVP over Rookie of the Year

05:22 What authentic leadership actually is

07:44 99% Human, 1% Amazing (the DNA thesis)

10:14 Ikigai and the trap of working only on your weaknesses

12:26 Who wrote the script? (Ted's reframe)

14:17 Chart your own path — Thoreau's rule

17:20 Non-cognitive skills as the real predictor of success

20:06 Growth mindset — Carol Dweck research + Chicago data

21:48 Settling vs. being content

23:30 Ted's own apartment-in-Greenville revelation (28 years old)

25:34 Daryl's ceiling moment — the $64K conversation

28:11 How to actually stop teacher turnover

30:37 The salary question (and what it reveals)

32:27 Change happens inside before outside

32:48 THE 3 DRIVERS OF NEW TEACHER RETENTION

33:57 Who needs to hear this most — teachers vs. leaders

36:02 Leaving loud (Mick Unplugged's frame)

37:17 Running to vs. running from

39:48 Parents — the question nobody's asked

42:49 The father-engagement research every dad should hear

44:28 Master the subjects that matter (grit, resilience, tenacity)

46:13 Ted on pledging a fraternity and "figure it out"

47:31 Where to find Daryl

48:58 The heaviest question — called for greater

50:34 Ted's recap

🤝 Connect with Daryl Williams Jr.:

Web: darylwilliamsjr.com

YouTube: h@DarylWilliamsJrOfficial

Libsyn: @darylwilliamsjr

Facebook: @darylwilliamsII

Instagram: @darylwilliams__

Everywhere: @DarylWilliamsJr (1R, 1L)

Book: 99% Human, 1% Amazing Booking: 2026 & 2027 school partnerships — year-long teacher retention program

👉🏿 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

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#modernmanpodcast #nobleknights #darylwilliams #teacherretention #mensleadership #fatherhood #growthmindset

I wasted 15 years of my sex life. Alex Grendi, former professional soccer player turned certified men's sex coach, joins Ted Phaeton on The Modern Man Podcast to talk about the silent battle 20 to 30 percent of men face — performance anxiety, premature ejaculation, ED — and the 4-step method he uses to fix it.

Alex spent 15 years battling this himself while competing at the elite athletic level, hiding it behind marijuana and locker-room bravado. This is the conversation that unpacks how sexual confidence directly shapes how a man shows up in business, leadership, and marriage — and the exact steps to reclaim it. Alex walks through the Superior Lovers 4-step method: nervous-system regulation (why porn/masturbation-free weeks reveal your real stress load), non-genital pleasure and sound expression (the shame most men carry), edging as exposure therapy for arousal, and separating orgasm from ejaculation. Plus: why Kegels are an emergency brake and not a solution, why sobriety was Alex's real turning point, and Ted's rule — you can't heal what you don't reveal.

Chapters:

00:00 15 Years Wasted 01:44 Welcome, Brother — Ted's Intro 02:22 "Sex Felt Like Something I Had to Get Through" 03:39 How Every Man Ends Up in the Loop 05:59 Elite Athlete on the Outside, Suffering on the Inside 08:16 The Whiskey Dick Problem (And What Research Actually Says) 09:28 The Turning Point — Sobriety & Self-Discovery 10:36 Sexual Health IS Health 13:52 What Semen Retention Actually Is (It's NOT NoFap) 16:30 How to Move Your Sexual Energy 19:00 Ted on Breaking His Own Porn Habit 21:17 The Layers Underneath "Boredom" 22:46 What "Superior Lover" Actually Means 24:25 Why the "Quick Tip" Won't Fix It 26:56 STEP 1 — Stress Regulation & Nervous System Awareness 28:57 Ted's Ice Bath Aha Moment (120 BPM → 68 BPM) 30:03 The Ice Bath Erection Challenge 😂 31:01 STEP 2 — Non-Genital Touch & Sound Expression 33:52 The *When Harry Met Sally* Reversal 37:19 STEP 3 — Edging & the Stop-Start Method 41:28 The Kegel Myth-Buster (Emergency Brake, Not a Solution) 43:33 STEP 4 — Separating Orgasm from Ejaculation 45:35 The Taboo That Keeps Men Stuck 47:28 30–50% of Men Have Experienced This 48:50 "You Can't Heal What You Don't Reveal" 49:18 The Ejaculation Replacement Technique 50:39 Where to Find Alex 51:56 What Changed How Alex Sees the World (Sobriety) 53:21 Ted's Final Takeaways & Closing Thoughts

🤝 Connect with Alex Grendi:

Website: alexgrendi.com

YouTube Channels:

Alex Grendi

Alex Grendi Coaching

Instagram: @alex.grendi

Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: If you need emotional support, reach out to the national mental health hotline: Call, Text, or Chat 988

👉🏿 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

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Ex-Special Forces commando Tim Thomas on why elite soldiers break — and the 10 minutes a day that fix every exhausted man. From down under, Tim joins Ted Phaeton on The Modern Man Podcast to unpack the Performance Pyramid, the Two Golden 5-Minute Windows, and the warfare tactic he learned in Afghanistan that maps directly to how modern men are burning themselves out.

Tim served with Australian Special Forces in Afghanistan, competed as a pro MMA fighter, survived PTSD, and has spent the last decade in the veteran recovery space. He's the founder of Breathwork in Bed (an app, a method, and a movement), author of Fight, Flight, Feel, and has raised over $1M for veteran mental health research. His message is simple — most men are trying to fix their life while exhausted. Fix the sleep first, everything else follows.

In this conversation: the Performance Pyramid (outcomes → actions → rest/recovery/healing art forms — and why most men build only the top two), the bow-and-arrow reframe for rest days ("bow days"), self-worth as our real center of gravity, how pain transforms into loneliness and isolation and what breaks it, the "energetic millionaire" metaphor, Tim's own path through the crushing weight of defeat, and the tactical spine — the 5 minutes before sleep + 5 minutes upon waking that determine the shape of your entire day. Plus: why breath outranks thinking, why the presence of oxygen is the absence of disease, and Tim's invitation to Ted (and to you) — the Breathwork in Bed 28-day challenge.

Chapters:

00:00 Elite soldiers break — not from lack of strength, from lack of recovery

01:42 Welcome brother — Ted's intro

02:12 The performance question no training manual prepares you for 02:55 The 20s vs. the rest of your life

03:15 The Performance Pyramid (outcomes → actions → rest)

05:22 Warfare tactic — attack the enemy's sleep, better than a bullet 05:53 Our center of gravity is self-worth

08:16 Ted on peace in the home

10:36 The bow-and-arrow reframe — bow days over rest days

14:02 Solitude vs. isolation

16:38 The danger age for men — 38 to 42

17:20 Tim's veteran suicide-prevention work — 40 lives in one year

21:23 The Noble Knights + the isolation break

23:14 The question that changes everything — how many other people? 26:04 The firefighter story — the problem wasn't my own

27:33 The Energetic Millionaire metaphor

30:37 The research on sleep + testosterone + performance

32:51 Speaking to the stubborn version of yourself

35:31 The pyramid vs. pyramid — the competitor's edge

38:24 THE TWO GOLDEN 5-MINUTE WINDOWS

40:41 Breath outranks thinking

42:30 What the breath work actually looks like

45:22 Sleep is the soil from which everything grows

46:27 The Breathwork in Bed 28-day challenge

49:13 The crushing weight of defeat — Tim's vision

51:25 Ted's recap

Connect with Tim Thomas: Breathwork in Bed app: Search "Breathwork in Bed" in your app store — 28-day free trial Book: Fight, Flight, Feel Web: breathworkinbed.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/breathworkinbed

👉 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

Free eBook Here: Mastering Self-Development: Strategies of the New Masculine: https://rebrand.ly/m2ebook

⚔️JOIN THE NOBLE KNIGHTS MASTERMIND⚔️

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Ted's testosterone was almost 200 — 198 to be exact — and he looked healthy on the outside. Muscle, working out, doing the podcast. On the inside his hormone floor was gone. Then he did the work Mark Holman coaches men through, and now he's at 800. No TRT. All natural.

Mark Holman is a mental/physical health and testosterone optimization coach. Creator of the Unchained program (formerly Revival) and the 5-Day High-T Leadership Challenge. He was on the Modern Man Podcast before — this is Round 2. He's since moved his own total T to 1,100, doubled his free testosterone, broke his own income barrier, and met the woman he's now marrying.

In this conversation, Mark and Ted go deep on why "normal" testosterone is a lie (74% of Americans are overweight — that's the population setting the normal range), Mark's named diagnostic concept — the Health Handbrakes — that a standard blood panel won't reveal, why TRT is like winning the lottery (no process, no struggle, and you're on it for life), the free-T-vs-SHBG conversation most doctors skip, the sniper-vs-shotgun reframe for supplements (and the Tongkat Ali standardization rule most brands hide), and the leadership-testosterone connection — why lower T makes you more risk-averse and quietly shrinks your ambition.

Plus: Ted's own before/after receipts (198 → 800 natural), the University of Chicago sleep study that showed a 5-hour night drops testosterone 10-15% in one week, the 2007 JCEM data showing modern men's T is generationally lower than their fathers' generation at the same age, and Mark's closer on the nice-guy generational curse he inherited from his father and broke.

If you're a high-performing man between 25 and 55 with a "normal" blood panel and a feeling something's off — this one's for you.

Key insights from this episode:

• Testosterone as an on-demand hormone (not a fixed number)

• Why "normal T ranges" are a lie (74% of Americans set that baseline)

• The Health Handbrakes: the root causes of low T that a standard panel misses

• The Unchained standard: 700 total testosterone is the floor, not the ceiling

• Free T + SHBG: why total T alone lies to you

• TRT is like winning the lottery: no process, no struggle, and you're on it for life

• Sniper vs. Shotgun supplementation (and the Tongkat Ali 2% eurycomanone rule)

• The testosterone-leadership connection: why low T makes you risk-averse

• Ted's before/after receipts: 198 to 800 natural in 18 months

• Mark's N=1 story: 1,100 total T, doubled free T, wife met, business broke through

Chapters:

00:00 The confession — my T was 198 02:04 What's Changed About Testosterone? 04:25 Can You Naturally Increase Testosterone? 05:47 Why "Normal" Blood Work Isn't Enough 08:36 The Testosterone Range Doctors Miss 10:00 Ted's Testosterone: 198 → 800 Naturally 11:57 What to Do If Your Doctor Says You're "Normal" 14:20 Can You Come Off TRT? 15:42 TRT vs. Fixing the Root Cause 17:58 Stress, Sleep & Free Testosterone 20:15 When Is TRT Actually Necessary? 23:04 Why Men's Testosterone Keeps Declining 25:42 The Truth About Testosterone Supplements 29:43 Zinc, Vitamin D & Deficiencies Explained 30:36 Why Most T Boosters Don't Work 33:22 The Hidden Cost of Low Testosterone 36:42 Testosterone, Leadership & Confidence 39:22 Does Sunlight on Your Balls Work? 40:23 Mark's Results: 1,100 Testosterone 45:14 Health, Wealth & Love 45:47 Free Blood Work Analysis 46:47 The Lesson That Changed Mark's Life 49:09 Ted's Biggest Takeaways

Connect with Mark Holman:

Instagram: @markholmanhealth/

Free Master Class: testosteronemasterclass

Linktree: Markholmanhealth

👉 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

Free eBook Here: Mastering Self-Development: Strategies of the New Masculine: https://rebrand.ly/m2ebook

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He was terminated twice. He filed for divorce. He gained 60 pounds and drank on the highs AND the lows. Then May 5, 2018, he walked out of an AA meeting and hasn't touched alcohol since.

Nick Jonsson is a licensed specialized counselor, best-selling author of Executive Loneliness (the book coined a term that now has its own dedicated Wikipedia page), leads one of Asia's largest networks of senior executives, is a TEDx speaker on sleep, and an Ironman triathlete who splits time between Sweden and Asia. He's also the father of a 17-year-old son and a working husband.

In this conversation, Nick and Ted go deep on the drift that destroys high-performing men — the anxious-overachiever wound that made them successful in the first place, the 68% of executives who have nobody to confide in (per Harvard Business Review), the corporate stigma that keeps men silent even when they know better, the KLM Tenerife disaster that shows what fear of speaking up actually costs, and Nick's 5-Step framework from Executive Loneliness for the man ready to come back.

Plus the through-line Nick applies to triathlon, executive coaching, marriage, sleep, and time — the "principles that work in this work in all areas of life" reframe that turned a mediocre triathlete into an Ironman PR-setter and a man 60 pounds lighter with 30 years of marriage ahead of him.

If you're a high-performing man between 25 and 55 with more contacts than you have people to actually call — this one's for you.

Key insights from this episode:

• The anxious-overachiever wound that made you successful (and why healing it doesn't kill your edge)

• Why 68% of senior executives have nobody to confide in — and why 84% won't even tell HR

• Multiple purposes, not one — the "keep steady in the middle" reframe from 12-step recovery

• The KLM Tenerife disaster — what fear of speaking up actually costs

• Nick's 5-Step framework from Executive Loneliness

• Take Stock. Who Can You Talk To. Get Healthy. (Plus what comes next.)

• Sober since May 5, 2018 — the exposure sequence that changed everything

• Sleep half an hour more, break your Ironman PR (Nick's TEDx origin)

• Removing the TV from the bedroom — and other things Nick surrendered

• Own your shit — Nick's final answer, the biggest transformation of his life

Chapters:

00:00 The confession — terminated twice, 60 pounds, drinking on emotions

01:00 Welcome brother — Ted's intro

01:26 What keeps high-performing men isolated?

02:06 The anxious-overachiever wound

03:04 The wound that made you successful (and the fear of healing it)

05:44 Multiple purposes vs. one why

07:20 Keep steady in the middle

08:35 The Harvard 68% stat

09:58 Nick's own survey (30% / 75% / 84%)

11:00 If you break a leg you see a doctor. If you break your emotions, you hide.

11:43 Therapy as maintenance, not crisis

13:21 Stigma, the corporate ladder, and resilience

15:22 Real-world consequences of vulnerability

18:10 The KLM Tenerife disaster

20:19 Chernobyl, night shift, and mistakes made from silence

22:13 Step 1 — Take Stock

23:31 Step 2 — Who Can You Talk To

25:19 The May 5, 2018 exposure sequence (wife, doctor, friend)

27:00 The tribe found — the urge lifted

27:49 The primal fear of rejection 29:14 The three people you'd call at 2 a.m.

30:30 Build safe spaces in the good times

31:32 Being discerning with who you offload to

32:56 The through-line — from recovery to triathlon

34:23 Applying the same principles to everything

35:00 Signing up for a triathlon tribe (coach, cycling club, swim academy, running club)

36:14 The sleep experiment — 30 days of half an hour more

37:00 The TEDx that came from sleeping more

37:34 Ted on the sleep struggle

39:48 Discipline, accountability, and "just keep going"

41:19 The Ironman as a mini-life

41:50 Ted on Hyrox

44:06 How Nick manages time (paid to remove the bedroom TV)

44:45 Say a lot of no. Hit many birds with one stone.

45:30 Cycling with his 17-year-old son

47:09 Where to find Nick and Executive Loneliness

48:36 Own your shit — the biggest transformation

49:53 Outro and Ted's recap

🤝 Connect with Nick Jonsson:

Website: www.nickjonsson.com

Facebook: @jonhannah.berryhill3

Instagram: @jonssonnick

LinkedIn: @nick-jonsson

YouTube: @NickJonsson

Book: Executive Loneliness — Amazon (Kindle, paperback, Audible):

https://www.amazon.com/Executive-Loneliness-Overcoming-Isolation-Depression-ebook/dp/B091B1Y3WZ

Wikipedia page: Executive Loneliness (dedicated page on the term Nick coined): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Loneliness

TEDx: "Nick Jonsson sleep on TEDx"

👉 About The Modern Man: The Modern Man is here to provide the structural discipline required for men to scale their impact while enforcing a strict sovereign life.

Tools of Time Course: Master your daily structure: Tools of Time

Free eBook Here: Mastering Self-Development: Strategies of the New Masculine: https://rebrand.ly/m2ebook

⚔️JOIN THE NOBLE KNIGHTS MASTERMIND⚔️

https://themodernmanpodcast.com/thenobleknights

🤝CONNECT WITH THE MODERN MAN🤝

Visit our website: themodernmanshow.com

Follow us on Twitter: TheModernMan8

Follow us on Instagram: @TheModernManShow

Subscribe to our YouTube channel: The Modern Man

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