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The Most Optimized Blue: Differences Between UI and User Experience Design with Nick Cawthon
In this episode of "How Many CTOs Does It Take?" podcast, hosts Scott Porad and Brad Hefta-Gaub talk with Nick Cawthon of gauge.io, who shares highlights from RSA 2026 and his career designing UX for InfoSec/SecOps/DevOps tools. Nick argues that modern dashboards increasingly look the same, so strategists and researchers must find the nuances by designing for the human factor. He explains how research-driven UX reduces fatigue and errors caused by behaviors like endless scrolling, swivel-chair context switching, and inconsistent layouts. The group discusses how B2B security users want speed and clarity rather than "stickiness," why UI is often confused with UX, and how product-led vs engineering-led cultures affect outcomes. They debate whether agent-led/AI companies truly understand UX, why poor UX persists (strategy, impatience, capitalism), the role of humility, what's measurable in UX, and whether cheaper engineering will shift investment toward design. 00:00 Cold Open 00:30 Podcast Intro Guest 01:09 RSA Conference Context 02:29 Design Shift Since iPhone 03:53 Human Factor in SecOps 04:40 Research First UX 04:54 Scrolling And Swivel Chair Fatigue 09:59 Consistency Notifications Workflow 11:14 B2B Speed Over Stickiness 12:56 Why We Repeat Mistakes 14:09 UX vs UI Value 18:23 Engineering Product Design Dynamics 20:25 AI Agents Deployed Engineers 22:33 Design Strategy Takes Discipline And Patience 25:47 Why Bad UX Persists 29:18 Measuring Experience 30:07 Title Suggestion 32:46 AI Chat Interfaces 36:49 Patterns and Commoditized Design 38:46 Code Gets Cheaper 41:53 Service Design Matters 43:19 Everyone Builds Now 46:02 Wrap Up and Links
Resources and hashtags to the end
- How Many CTOs Pod: https://howmanyctospod.com
- Scott Porad: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottporad/
- Brad Hefta-Gaub: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradheftagaub/
- Nick Cawthon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickcawthon-ux-digital-agency-product-design-leadership/
- Gauge.io: https://gauge.io/
#TechPodcast #EngineeringPodcast #DevTalks #PodcastForDevs #HowManyCTOs #Podcast #CTOs #CTOPodcast #ChiefTechnologyOfficer #Technology #Engineering #SoftwareDevelopment #SoftwareEngineering #TechLeadership #EngineeringLeadership #EngineeringCulture #TechDebates #InfoSec #SecOps #UX #UI #UXvsUI #UXDesign #UserExperience #DesigntoSucceed #UXStrategy #TechInnovation #AI #IndustryInsights #HumanFactor
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By Brad Hefta-Gaub & Scott PoradIn this episode of "How Many CTOs Does It Take?" podcast, hosts Scott Porad and Brad Hefta-Gaub talk with Nick Cawthon of gauge.io, who shares highlights from RSA 2026 and his career designing UX for InfoSec/SecOps/DevOps tools. Nick argues that modern dashboards increasingly look the same, so strategists and researchers must find the nuances by designing for the human factor. He explains how research-driven UX reduces fatigue and errors caused by behaviors like endless scrolling, swivel-chair context switching, and inconsistent layouts. The group discusses how B2B security users want speed and clarity rather than "stickiness," why UI is often confused with UX, and how product-led vs engineering-led cultures affect outcomes. They debate whether agent-led/AI companies truly understand UX, why poor UX persists (strategy, impatience, capitalism), the role of humility, what's measurable in UX, and whether cheaper engineering will shift investment toward design. 00:00 Cold Open 00:30 Podcast Intro Guest 01:09 RSA Conference Context 02:29 Design Shift Since iPhone 03:53 Human Factor in SecOps 04:40 Research First UX 04:54 Scrolling And Swivel Chair Fatigue 09:59 Consistency Notifications Workflow 11:14 B2B Speed Over Stickiness 12:56 Why We Repeat Mistakes 14:09 UX vs UI Value 18:23 Engineering Product Design Dynamics 20:25 AI Agents Deployed Engineers 22:33 Design Strategy Takes Discipline And Patience 25:47 Why Bad UX Persists 29:18 Measuring Experience 30:07 Title Suggestion 32:46 AI Chat Interfaces 36:49 Patterns and Commoditized Design 38:46 Code Gets Cheaper 41:53 Service Design Matters 43:19 Everyone Builds Now 46:02 Wrap Up and Links
Resources and hashtags to the end
- How Many CTOs Pod: https://howmanyctospod.com
- Scott Porad: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottporad/
- Brad Hefta-Gaub: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradheftagaub/
- Nick Cawthon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickcawthon-ux-digital-agency-product-design-leadership/
- Gauge.io: https://gauge.io/
#TechPodcast #EngineeringPodcast #DevTalks #PodcastForDevs #HowManyCTOs #Podcast #CTOs #CTOPodcast #ChiefTechnologyOfficer #Technology #Engineering #SoftwareDevelopment #SoftwareEngineering #TechLeadership #EngineeringLeadership #EngineeringCulture #TechDebates #InfoSec #SecOps #UX #UI #UXvsUI #UXDesign #UserExperience #DesigntoSucceed #UXStrategy #TechInnovation #AI #IndustryInsights #HumanFactor