In this episode, Chordal CEO Grayson Sanders joins me, Jonny Amos, for a discussion on the complexities of music licensing in the digital age, the potential of AI in rights management, and the future of micro-licensing for the creator economy. We explore how technology is transforming the industry and what it means for artists, rights holders, and content creators.

Keywords

music licensing, AI rights management, micro-licensing, digital content, creator economy, rights clearance, TikTok music, music industry innovation

Key Topics

Music licensing complexities in the internet age

AI's role in rights management and licensing

Micro-licensing as a scalable revenue model

The future of music licensing by 2035

TikTok's music licensing innovations

The role of human curation vs algorithms in music discovery

Challenges faced by independent artists in licensing

The impact of AI on music rights and discovery

Takeaways

Music rights are owned by multiple parties, making licensing complex.

AI is used for rights cleaning, matching, and discovery, not for generating music.

Micro-licensing is becoming essential due to internet content volume.

Traditional blockbuster licensing will coexist with micro-licensing.

Platforms like TikTok are pioneering scalable licensing solutions.

Human curation remains vital despite AI advancements.

Independent artists often lack knowledge about licensing requirements.

AI can help manage rights more efficiently and fairly.

Guest Name

Grayson Sanders - CEO of Chordal

Sound bites

"Music licensing is more complex than ever."

"AI helps manage rights, not just create music."

"Community curation will outpace algorithms."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to music licensing challenges in the digital age

01:57 How music rights are owned and the complexity of licensing

03:53 The impact of the internet on licensing speed and scalability

06:10 Chordal's platform and its role in licensing and rights management

07:57 Expanding licensing to independent artists and creators

11:02 The rise of micro-licensing and its importance

13:58 The influence of AI in rights management and licensing

17:04 Future of licensing in 2035: human vs. platform transactions

20:00 The cultural shift back to human curation and community-based discovery

22:52 The role of AI in managing rights and enhancing discovery

25:56 The impact of platforms like TikTok on licensing and music use

33:01 The importance of fair remuneration and rights holder control

36:00 Final thoughts: coexistence of traditional and new licensing models

Resources

Chordal Platform - https://chordal.com

Music Ally Article on TikTok Commercial Music Library - https://musically.com/2026/05/11/chordal-got-5bn-tiktok-views-for-commercial-music-library-tracks/

In this episode, I am joined by Hekta Music Group CEO Lucas Rizzo who also operates as a Fractional Partner Across Brands, Tech and Capital. Lucas shares insights from his unique journey through music, tech, and startups, highlighting the interconnectedness of these worlds and how they shape his approach to artist development and catalog management.

Keywords

music industry, startups, artist development, catalog acquisition, authenticity, creator economy, music tech, AI in music

Key Topics

Interconnection of music, tech, and startups

The importance of authenticity in music

Data-driven artist development strategies

The role of catalog acquisition in music

Balancing passion and business in music

Takeaways

Cross-industry experience provides a unique edge in music.

Authenticity remains crucial despite industry pressures.

Data and intuition together inform artist strategies.

Catalog management is a key to sustainable success.

Embracing being lost is part of finding your true path.

Guest Name

Lucas Rizzo

Sound bites

"The interconnectedness of it all."

"The DSP element is part of market fit."

"Getting lost is part of the process."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Lucas and His Journey

03:08 Interconnectedness of Music, Tech, and Startups

05:55 Realising Success vs. Fulfilment

09:00 The Transition from Artist to Business

11:52 Goals in Catalogue Acquisition and Artist Development

16:01 Navigating the Creator Economy

20:07 Wisdom from Parallel Lives

22:59 Authenticity in the Age of Social Media

25:59 Finding Your True Self Through the Journey

Resources

Hekta Music Group - https://hektamusicgroup.com

Chartmetric - https://www.chartmetric.com/

Ovo by Drake - https://www.octobersveryown.com/

Your music can be playing in thousands of real-world places right now: cafés, shops, gyms, pubs, restaurants, clubs and grassroots venues. The uncomfortable truth is that public performance royalties are still often calculated from surveys, proxies and best guesses, not from actual usage. That means creators can be underpaid or overpaid, and a lot of value ends up drifting into the black box instead of reaching the people who wrote and performed the work. 

I’m joined by Ryan Edwards, CEO of Audoo, a company building audio meters that help rights organisations measure what is really being played in venues. Ryan shares the moment he heard his own band’s track in a department store and realised he had no practical way to verify it on a royalty statement. We unpack the scale of the problem, including how limited sampling can distort distributions, and why accurate public performance reporting matters more than ever now that music catalogues are treated like investable assets. 

We also get properly technical. Ryan explains how Audoo creates a digital fingerprint in real time, matches it against a massive catalogue, and stays GDPR compliant by never storing or transmitting raw audio. We talk about adoption barriers, why some collecting societies move fast while others resist change, and what accurate play data unlocks beyond payments: touring strategy, marketing timing, cultural campaigns, and clearer insight into where music actually lives in the world. 

If you care about music licensing, PRO reform, royalty transparency, metadata, and fair pay for songwriters and performers, this one is for you. Subscribe for more deep dives into how the modern music industry works, share the episode with a creator who needs it, and leave a review telling me what part of royalty accounting you want decoded next.

https://audoo.com

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Sync is meant to be simple: a great track, a clear brief, a fair fee, everyone gets paid. In reality, it can be weeks of chasing split sheets, conflicting PRO records, missing contacts and approvals that arrive too late to matter. I’m joined by hitmaker and builder Nathan Duvall to talk about what happens when the modern pace of content collides with a licensing system that still struggles to answer one basic question: who owns what, and where?

We get into what Nathan is building with SyncIt, including the unglamorous but essential work of collating rights ownership data at scale and reducing the friction that slows down music licensing for adverts, TV, film, games and social campaigns. We also explore why big brands like L’Oreal cannot wait for endless back and forth, how licensing terms can price music out of the market, and why AI is already part of the toolkit whether the industry feels ready or not.

Then we zoom out to sport and fan culture. Nathan explains Fanthem, an AI-powered fan engagement platform that lets supporters generate chants and anthems, and why FIFA is trialling it for the Under 17s World Cup. From there we move into artist strategy: building an audience while creating a licensable body of work, the shift towards visual-first music discovery, and the practical reality that expertise still matters when brands need cut-downs, mixes, masters and fast delivery.

We close with a straight-talking look at masters ownership, multiple income streams, and the contract details artists overlook, especially retention period and consent clauses. If this helps, subscribe, share it with someone navigating sync licensing or label deals, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

https://syncit.ac

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You can feel it happening: a quiet revolt against the feed. When music becomes something we scroll past, count, and optimise, we lose the part that actually nourishes us. So I sit down with Keith Jopling, former Spotify global head of strategy and one of the UK’s sharpest music industry thinkers, to talk about the surprisingly radical idea at the heart of his book Body Of Work.  

We start with the album and why it refuses to die. Keith breaks down what campaigns like Charli XCX’s Brat reveal about culture, timing, and the return of album-era moments, especially among younger fans. From Taylor Swift to Billie Eilish to Olivia Rodrigo, we explore why cohesive projects still matter even when “album consumption” is difficult to measure in the streaming era, and why physical formats like vinyl and CDs can be part fandom, part merch, and part a genuine route back to attention and meaning. 

Then we get practical for creators: what constitutes a hit record in 2026? We look at how charts have become more industry-facing, what streaming numbers can and cannot tell you, and why the most honest metric might be the song your crowd sings back the loudest. We also challenge the obsession with measurement, including the growing pressure to treat music as a set of financial metrics, and land on the real antidotes: live music, better craft, and rituals like listening parties that make music communal again. 

If you care about the future of the music business, the creator economy, and the health of music culture, press play. Subscribe, share this with a music obsessive, and leave a review with the last album you listened to front-to-back.

https://www.songsommelier.com

https://www.songsommelier.com/body-of-work

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A song can be great and still miss its audience, simply because nobody knows where to place it. That problem sits at the heart of my conversation with Zotz - the strategist, music executive, and CEO of Rocketship Music, a new platform built to help artists understand exactly where their track fits before they spend money promoting it. 

We talk about the practical reality of modern music marketing for independent artists: choosing a “single”, defining genre and mood, writing targeting, and making decisions with tiny budgets while the industry often waits for TikTok or streaming algorithms to pick winners. Maxwell explains how Rocketship compares your music to similar releases across decades, then uses that historical context to point towards likely audiences and smarter next steps. The goal is not to replace taste or creativity, but to stop creators shooting in the dark and to reduce wasted spend on the wrong channels. 

We also go deep on what responsible AI in the music industry looks like. Rocketship is not an AI music generator, and Zotz breaks down the legal and ethical hurdles of building “AI that listens” without training on copyrighted recordings in the way most people assume. From there we explore where AI genuinely helps musicians today: saving time on workflows, improving planning, and freeing artists to focus on writing, recording, and performing. 

Finally, we look ahead to a market where AI increases the volume of new music and raises the stakes for human artists. Our shared takeaway: fandom, live connection, and knowing who truly resonates with your work becomes even more important. If you enjoy these deep dives into A&R, artist development, and music tech, subscribe, share the episode, and leave a review. What’s the one question you wish you could answer about your audience right now?

https://rocketship.music

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AI music tools are moving fast, but one issue keeps poisoning the well: models trained on copyrighted songs with little or no visibility into what went in. When creators cannot see the training data, they cannot consent, negotiate, or get paid, and we end up stuck in a bleak loop of scrape first and litigate later. I want a better outcome, and I think we already have a blueprint hiding in plain sight.

I unpack how legal sampling works through TrackLib and why it is more than a niche producer tool. It is a rights and provenance system: pick from a cleared catalogue, create, clear before release, and ensure credit and compensation reach the right people. Then I map that logic onto generative AI in the music industry with a licence-first approach: opt-in training catalogues for labels, publishers, artists, and other rights holders; a training provenance database that shows what was included; revenue participation through royalties or usage-based payouts; influence reporting; and clear commercial rights so users know what they can release.

We also face the tough questions head-on: scale, value allocation across millions of training tracks, the difference between influence and copying, and the competitive pressure that makes unlicensed scraping tempting. I point to early proof-of-concept signals, including companies pursuing licensed training and partnerships with major rights holders and organisations, and I explain why moving beyond a flawed declaration model matters.

If you care about music copyright, AI training data transparency, and building fair royalties for creators, listen through and tell me where you land. Subscribe, share with a creator friend, and leave a review so more people can join the conversation.

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You can feel it happening: people are watching less legacy television, and the internet is filling the gap with an endless stream of short-form video, livestreams, indie games, podcasts, and creator-led brands. That shift doesn’t just change how audiences consume media, it changes how music needs to be licensed. I’m looking at micro licensing, a model that could become a major force over the next five to ten years as the modern music industry scrambles to match the speed and scale of the creator economy.

We unpack what micro licensing actually means in practice: moving away from a slow, negotiation-heavy sync licensing process built for rare, high-value placements, and towards instant clearance for thousands (or even millions) of smaller uses. I talk through why the pricing model matters, why creators sometimes default to AI-generated music when licensing is too hard, and how a long-tail revenue economy could create meaningful income for rights holders if the infrastructure is right.

Then we get honest about the risks: value dilution, messy global rights, and the growing chaos around AI ownership and attribution. I also explore what could make this workable at scale, including strong metadata, smarter rights databases, and API-driven licensing that distributors could potentially plug into. Finally, I share a standout early market mover I’ve been researching, and why I’m pushing for independent artists, songwriters, and producers to be included rather than left behind.

If you want to understand where music licensing is heading and how to prepare your catalogue for what’s next, listen now. Subscribe, share this with a fellow creator, and leave a review with your take: does micro licensing empower independents, or does it risk making music feel disposable?

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Most artists don’t fail because they lack talent. They fail because they rush, chase the wrong signals, or hand over control before they understand what they own. I’m joined by John Hart, A&R consultant and artist management specialist, for a straight-talking look at what sustainable artist development really means in today’s music industry.

We get specific about what a good manager looks for and it’s not “who might get a hit”. John explains why he backs long-term career potential, why songwriting still sits at the centre of modern revenue, and how authenticity is built through clear identity rather than rigid genre rules. We also dig into audience thinking: who your fans are, what they value, and how that should shape everything from your visuals to your live strategy.

From there we go deep on deal structures and rights. We talk publishing deals that fund recording, working with producers as true creative partners, and why keeping control of masters can open up options later through licensing deals, catalogue value, and smarter investment. We also cover the unglamorous money: neighbouring rights, mechanicals, and metadata, plus the mistakes artists make by releasing too early and treating Spotify like a shop instead of a discovery platform. We finish with the big shifts ahead, including AI, market fragmentation, and the resilience you need to survive rejection and keep moving.

If you’re building a serious independent music career, hit subscribe, share this with an artist mate, and leave a review. Which part of your career needs a clearer plan right now?

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Most music producers spend years trying to be louder, faster, and more impressive in the room. Tenroc argues the opposite;l the real edge is knowing what the song needs, then doing only that. Jonny Amos sits down with the New York songwriter-producer behind work connected to artists like Jon Bellion, Rihanna, the Jonas Brothers and Julia Michaels, and pulls back the curtain on how modern sessions actually function.

We dig into the messy, practical question every producer faces - am I here to write, to build tracks, to programme drums, to play instruments, or to get out of the way? Tenroc explains how he reads the room, protects the creative flow, and builds relationships that last even when the song never gets released. He also shares a personal turning point: moving from behind-the-scenes work into putting out an album as an artist, driven by a clear sense of purpose.

If you love craft, you will enjoy the nerdy details. Tenroc breaks down how he learned “commercial” sound through chart study and reverse-engineering, why emotion is often innate, and how tools like GarageBand, Logic Pro and FL Studio shaped his workflow. We also tackle the underrated skill that gets producers paid: finishing songs, using song structure to hold attention, and understanding when a verse, pre-chorus, hook, or bridge should appear.

Finally, we talk music publishing in plain language - what a good publisher actually does, and why taste and collaborator fit matter more than chasing the biggest name on paper. If you want practical music production advice, major label session reality, and a clearer path for artist development, press play, then subscribe, share with a producer friend, and leave us a review.

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