The Neurodiversity Today Podcast

Neurodiversity, workplace inclusion, and the cost of masking with Lyric Rivera

Kenneth Mims, M.Ed., speaks with Lyric Rivera about discovering autism and ADHD in adulthood, the impact of autistic burnout, and how school and workplace systems can unintentionally punish neurodivergent people for needing support. They also dig into accommodations, sensory regulation, the limits of “superpower” language, and the overlap between autism, queerness, and other identities. 

Lyric Rivera is an autistic and ADHD writer, consultant, and advocate whose work focuses on neurodiversity, workplace inclusion, and self-understanding.

Key topics:

• In this episode: Lyric shares that they were diagnosed autistic a few months before turning 30, after a prolonged mental and physical health crisis that later made sense as autistic burnout.
• They describe how burnout had been building since childhood, including cycles of pushing past their limits, not recognizing their own needs, and ending up physically depleted.
• A major turning point came when an autism assessment led them to firsthand autistic writing that reflected their experience more accurately than medicalized stereotypes.
• Lyric explains how a corporate workplace became a second wave of harm, with managers criticizing facial expressions, body language, posture, tone, and other traits that had nothing to do with job performance.
• They argue that many workplace policies exclude neurodivergent talent by overvaluing rigid processes, unnecessary job requirements, and micromanagement over the quality of the final work.
• Lyric recommends a practical accommodation strategy: lead with the need or obstacle, then explain the outcome it enables, especially when it may not feel safe to disclose a diagnosis.
• They also describe the ideal neuroinclusive environment as one built on universal design, emotional safety, and flexibility rather than gatekeeping and case-by-case permission.
• The conversation explores why the “autism superpower” narrative can be harmful, especially when it replaces personhood with productivity and pressures autistic people to perform usefulness.
• Lyric frames autistic strengths and challenges as a “spiky skills profile,” emphasizing that strengths and weaknesses can coexist without turning anyone into a superhero.
• They discuss intersectionality through their own experience as an autistic queer and non-binary person, noting how identity, privilege, and marginalization can stack without canceling one another out.
• Lyric gives a clear explanation of autistic meltdowns and shutdowns as overload responses, not deliberate misbehavior, and compares them to a glass gradually filling until it spills.
• They reflect on how school systems and workplace systems often mirror each other by demanding stillness, eye contact, and conformity while ignoring sensory and regulation needs.
• The episode closes with Lyric’s books and consulting work, including workplace neurodiversity, autism identity, and self-advocacy resources.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Pronouncing Lyric Rivera’s name and opening the neurodivergence conversation

01:02 - Late diagnosis and recognizing autistic burnout

02:50 - First suspicions, then a specialist autism assessment

03:49 - Receiving the diagnosis and finding firsthand autistic writing

05:11 - Why sharing lived experience matters

06:12 - Corporate culture, masking, and being policed at work

07:56 - Why workplace inclusion matters for neurodivergent talent

08:38 - Job descriptions and rigid systems that exclude people

09:34 - Sensory needs, schedule flexibility, and remote work

10:23 - How poor accommodations can push people out

11:17 - Emotional safety, creativity, and “canaries in the coal mine”

13:11 - How to ask for accommodations without disclosing everything

15:29 - Leading with needs, not labels, when safety is uncertain

18:40 - Why “superpowers” can become dehumanizing

19:39 - The case for a spiky skills profile instead of superhero language

22:36 - Autism, queerness, and intersectionality

28:38 - What an autistic meltdown feels like from the inside

30:29 - Shutdowns, shame, and why compassion matters

32:54 - Punishing neurodivergence in school and at work

38:42 - Books, consulting, and where to find Lyric Rivera

In this episode of Neurodiversity Today, Kenneth Mims speaks with Keivan Stasun, an astrophysicist, MacArthur Fellow, and founding director of the First Center for Autism and Innovation at Vanderbilt University. 

Keivan shares how raising an autistic son changed the way he understood ability, support needs, and human potential. He explains why neurodivergent thinkers can strengthen scientific teams, how an autistic student helped transform the analysis of Kepler telescope data, and why organizations must rethink communication, hiring, and academic evaluation. 

The conversation offers a practical vision for inclusion: recognize both strengths and support needs, communicate with greater precision, and create more than one way for people to demonstrate what they know.

You’ll discover:

• How neurodivergent thinkers can drive scientific discovery, innovation, and stronger teams.
• Why differences in communication should never be mistaken for differences in intelligence or ability.
• How an autistic student’s unique approach to Kepler telescope data helped reveal new possibilities for scientific analysis.
• Why recognizing strengths must go hand in hand with understanding support needs and providing accommodations.
• How organizations can make hiring, onboarding, and workplace communication more inclusive.
• Why academic institutions should rethink traditional exams and create more equitable ways for neurodivergent students to demonstrate their knowledge.
• How leaders can remove unnecessary barriers while maintaining high standards and creating opportunities for different minds to thrive.

Timestamps:

00:01 - Keivan’s experience as a father of an autistic son

01:09 - From astrophysics to neurodiversity advocacy

02:36 - Recruiting autistic students into a research team

04:44 - Why different minds drive scientific discovery

07:13 - Moving from deficit-based to strength-based thinking

08:13 - Recognizing both abilities and support needs

11:17 - The Kepler data discovery and hearing information differently

13:38 - Communication differences are not intelligence differences

16:03 - Rethinking assumptions about speech, expression, and ability

17:22 - Neurodiversity, workforce innovation, and leadership

18:25 - The importance of precise organizational communication

21:28 - Making hiring and onboarding more inclusive

23:05 - Offering accommodations without requiring disclosure

24:04 - Where neurodivergent talent is lost in the hiring process

26:23 - Barriers in science and engineering doctoral programs

26:53 - Sensory challenges in laboratory environments

27:51 - Accommodation gaps for graduate students

28:21 - Why traditional qualifying exams can exclude talent

30:14 - Creating fairer ways to assess excellence

31:07 - Supporting a non-speaking autistic PhD student

33:26 - Neurodiversity and the national science framework

35:22 - Expanding access to science and engineering careers

36:39 - Closing reflections on inclusion and scientific potential

What if the real problem in schools is not the students, but the way we define "normal"? Joy Buckner, host of The Joy of Neurodiversity, makes the case that belonging starts long before achievement, and that neurodivergent learners thrive when systems stop treating them like a problem to fix.

Joy shares the lived reality behind her own late-identified neurodivergence - dyslexia, Irlen syndrome, ADHD, and an ongoing autism evaluation - and explains why so many students, parents, and even educators are stuck in shame, confusion, and exhaustion. 

She also opens up about how decades of working in schools and organizations across nearly 30 countries shaped her belief that inclusive learning is not extra work, it's better work.

You’ll discover:

• Why "planning for the margins" improves learning for everyone
• How schools unknowingly create isolation instead of emotional safety
• The hidden cost of advocacy for parents of neurodivergent children
• Why so many families struggle to access testing and support
• The difference between celebrating strengths and falling into toxic positivity

Joy also breaks down the bigger picture, from legislative advocacy and school board action to the urgent need for more awareness around neurodiversity versus neurodivergence. 

Her analogy of the human mind as an ecosystem makes a powerful case for why different kinds of thinkers are not only valuable but necessary.

This conversation is especially valuable for school leaders, teachers, parents, and anyone working to create environments where neurodivergent people are not merely accommodated, but genuinely seen, supported, and included. If you want a more hopeful, practical, and human way to think about belonging, this episode delivers it. 

Timestamps

00:00 - Joy names her neurodivergent experience and explains Erlen syndrome, dyslexia, and ADHD

02:33 - Why belonging matters more than forcing compliance

05:28 - How her background in education led to the Joy of Neurodiversity podcast

08:07 - Consulting in nearly 30 countries and supporting schools and companies

12:52 - Global misconceptions and harmful beliefs about autism and neurodivergence

14:17 - Why planning for marginalized learners supports all students

16:36 - The shame, grief, and isolation many parents of neurodivergent children carry

19:56 - What families need most: awareness, access, and coordinated systems

22:39 - Joy’s own late diagnosis journey and the search for more answers

24:17 - Being twice exceptional and misunderstood as lazy or disruptive

27:44 - Strengths, weaknesses, and avoiding toxic positivity

29:00 - The flower analogy for honoring different minds without comparison

32:47 - Neurodiversity as biodiversity and the case for ecosystem thinking

35:35 - What Joy wants the next decade to bring: awareness, acceptance, and understanding

36:49 - Where to hear more from Joy and connect with her work

Autism support gets more effective when we stop trying to “fix” kids and start understanding what they’re actually experiencing. Nicole Gorman reveals why neuroaffirming care, unmasking, and self-advocacy can change everything for autistic and neurodivergent children, teens, and the parents trying to support them.

Kenneth Mims, M.Ed. sits down with Nicole Gorman to unpack the gap between traditional behavioral approaches and a strengths-based model that validates neurodivergent identities. 

Nicole shares how her own self-discovery shaped her path from psychology and special education into social-emotional support work with autistic kids and teens, and why that lived experience matters when families are navigating diagnosis, masking, sensory overload, and emotional regulation.

You’ll discover:

• What neuroaffirming practice looks like in real life, and why it is not the same as correction-based behavior management
• Why stimming, masking, and meltdowns are so often misunderstood by parents, educators, and clinicians
• How to talk to kids about a new autism diagnosis without making them feel broken
• Why many teens burn out in high-stress jobs, and how nontraditional paths like vocational or trade programs can be a better fit
• What the “lost generation” of late-diagnosed autistic and ADHD adults reveals about gaps in the system

Nicole also explains why reliable resources, open conversations, and self-advocacy matter so much for families, especially when a child is moving from childhood supports into college, work, or young adulthood. The conversation challenges outdated stereotypes about autism and ADHD while offering a more humane way forward for anyone who wants to support neurodivergent people with dignity.

Essential listening for parents, educators, therapists, and neurodivergent adults who are ready to move beyond deficit-based thinking and into real understanding.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Nicole’s neurodivergent identity and path into special education

00:53 - From teacher’s aide to social-emotional support for autistic kids and teens

03:17 - What neuroaffirming practice means in real classrooms

04:44 - Why after-school spaces help kids unmask safely

05:33 - Autism stereotypes about stimming, intelligence, and independence

08:40 - Masking in mainstream schools and the pressure to stay still

10:36 - Realizing personal masking after years of survival mode

12:07 - How parents can learn about a new autism diagnosis

14:40 - Supporting families through neuroaffirming, collaborative planning

19:50 - Meltdowns, overload, and why they are not tantrums

22:19 - Early diagnosis versus late diagnosis and the transition impact

26:33 - Why high-stress starter jobs can be hard for neurodivergent teens

27:57 - Nontraditional education paths like vocational and trade schools

30:03 - Triggers, scheduling systems, and self-understanding as executive functioning support

32:32 - The “lost generation” of missed or late diagnoses

35:42 - Why psychology training needs more neurodivergent-affirming practice

37:09 - Optimism about better representation and broader education

What happens when a brilliant neurodivergent mind is forced to work inside systems built for someone else? Jeff, a mathematical optimization expert with a PhD from Georgia Tech, shares the moment he realized he had been "speaking neurotypical as a second language" - and why that discovery changed everything. 

Kenneth Mims, M. Ed. talks with Jeff about the late diagnosis that reframed his life, the work meltdown that led him to research Asperger's, and the painful lesson that high performance means little when a toxic workplace keeps asking you to do the impossible. From eye contact to communication style to the hidden cost of rigid corporate processes, Jeff shows how autism can shape both struggle and strength. 

Key Topics: 

• How a workplace meltdown and late autism diagnosis forced Jeff to reconsider years of masking, communication challenges, and the exhausting experience of “speaking neurotypical as a second language”
• Why high performance doesn't protect neurodivergent professionals from burnout, toxic workplace dynamics, or systems that refuse to adapt
• How rigid, top-down Agile and Scrum processes can clash with the associative and analytical thinking styles that make autistic problem-solvers exceptionally creative
• What workplace accommodations can look like in practice—and what happens when asking for support creates even more barriers
• Why recognizing your limits, asking for help early, and knowing when to walk away can protect your career, health, and confidence

Jeff also shares how his passions for music, improv, and stand-up comedy eventually led to Bravest Face, transforming a creative project into a platform for advocacy, mentoring, and helping other neurodivergent professionals turn difference into strength.

This episode is essential listening for autistic adults, neurodivergent professionals, students preparing to enter the workforce, leaders, HR professionals, and anyone who wants a more honest look at what workplace inclusion actually requires. It is a powerful reminder that sometimes the problem isn't that a person isn't capable of succeeding—the environment may be asking them to succeed by becoming someone they're not.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Jeff opens up about a late autism diagnosis after a workplace meltdown

00:34 - Reading Tony Atwood’s Asperger Syndrome and the first major aha moment

01:23 - Learning to “speak neurotypical” as a second language

02:19 - Mathematical optimization, consulting work, and the customer that broke the system

04:21 - The “canary in the coal mine” and recognizing a toxic environment

05:44 - Why impossible expectations are a hard stop for Jeff

07:58 - A diagnosis after years in the workforce and no accommodations in school

09:56 - Eye contact, social learning, and the shift from confusion to context

11:36 - Autism literature, conferences, and connecting with Duke Autism Center

13:40 - Moving from self-understanding into mentorship and community contribution

15:23 - Associative thinking, creativity, and how ideas collide into solutions

18:00 - Why communication with non-technical people became one of his biggest strengths

20:47 - Bravest Face, improv, stand-up, and turning a special interest into a company

23:49 - Rebranding the LLC into an entertainment and advocacy umbrella

26:28 - A second job, software process rigidity, and why Scrum failed in analytics

28:45 - Why solving problems is not the same as planning software tasks in advance

33:50 - Performance reviews, morale problems, and trying to push back on bad process

35:53 - The accommodation request, the long process, and HR’s missteps

38:17 - Escalation, written accusations, and the decision to leave the department

40:38 - Transfer to IT and the moment the accommodation logic collapsed

43:15 - Why disclosure is still such a hard conversation for neurodivergent workers

44:49 - No silver bullet: what Jeff tells younger autistic professionals

47:07 - Why trusted people at work should know, and why financial cushion matters

48:04 - How to ask for help before a situation becomes unmanageable

Most neurodiversity programs fail for one reason: they fix policies and ignore people. Remi Ray reveals why the real work starts with the human experience, and why leaders who miss that detail are quietly burning out their teams.

Remi Ray, a high performance coach, entrepreneur, and neurodiversity advocate, shares the lived-experience lens behind the work she does in organizations, from spotting the hidden signs of burnout to identifying the stories and narratives that shape culture, performance, and belonging. If you lead people, build teams, or are trying to create a truly neuro-affirming workplace, this conversation cuts straight to what actually matters.

Key Topics:

• Why HR policies often look inclusive on paper but fail in daily reality
• How masking and code switching can function as protection, not just concealment
• The difference between supporting neurodivergent talent and accidentally pushing them into burnout why self-reflection, honest feedback, and leadership awareness are non-negotiable
• How sleep, silence, exercise, and strategic calendar blocking can improve performance more than another productivity hack. 

Remi also opens up about the systems she built through The Diverse Creative CIC, from affordable dyslexia screening to community-led support for black and brown neurodivergent people, and the systemic barriers that still keep diagnosis, support, and opportunity out of reach for too many.

This episode is essential listening if you're a leader, founder, coach, HR professional, or neurodivergent professional who wants more than awareness. It offers a practical, human-centered roadmap for moving beyond surface-level inclusion and building environments where people can actually thrive.

Timestamps

00:00 - Are you neurodivergent, and how did the journey begin?

01:10 - Dyslexia diagnosis at 19 and why it sat unused for years

01:58 - Fashion school, creative education, and early ambitions

02:53 - Why neurodiversity work must start with the human experience

04:28 - Why workplace inclusion fails when humans are left out

05:32 - What neuroaffirming leadership actually requires

06:27 - The three stories shaping workplace tension and burnout

08:04 - How The Diverse Creative began in South London and Peckham

09:19 - Affordable dyslexia screening as a starting point for community support

10:10 - Expanding into reporting, business support, and Black and Brown neurodivergent needs

11:40 - The cost and access barriers to diagnosis in the UK

12:39 - Masking, code switching, and safety in corporate spaces

13:54 - Masking as survival, advancement, and reclaiming value

15:45 - Coaching different clients through trauma, confidence, and self-worth

17:41 - Why therapy and application-based intake matter before coaching

18:47 - Burnout, undiagnosed ND leaders, and stress flowing into teams

20:24 - Self-reflection, advisory boards, and honest feedback for leaders

22:06 - Building momentum through repetition, endurance, and regulation

24:19 - Strategic blocking, fun-first calendars, and sound healing

26:08 - Solitude, silence, and using data from the body

27:32 - Sleep, nutrition, and blood work as part of performance work

29:40 - How poor sleep affected leadership, motherhood, and the team

30:35 - Early mornings, self-regulation, and making better decisions

32:07 - What Remi would tell her younger self about identity and growth

33:20 - Learning strengths, reducing over-explaining, and trusting her data

34:23 - What Remi’s work is focused on now and who she serves

35:31 - Data, reporting, and leaving infrastructure for future advocates

36:27 - The next phase of advocacy, delivery, and infrastructure work

This conversation focuses on how organizations can better support neurodivergent people through universal design, better interviewing, and more objective performance systems. Katherine McCord shares practical ways HR and leaders can reduce masking, improve psychological safety, and make accommodations feel normal instead of special.We discuss why "different is not a deficit," how ego and trauma show up in workplaces, and how AI can help with interviewing, note-taking, and executive function when used thoughtfully.

Key topics

• Katherine shares her lived experience as neurodivergent, including seizure-related variances, OCD, bipolar I, and an undiagnosed factor that does not fit neatly into one category.
• She explains why interviewers should be trained to ask the same question in multiple ways, especially when interviewing literal thinkers or autistic candidates.
• We discuss onboarding as a paced, multi-modal process that should include visual, audio, and kinetic learning styles.
• Katherine offers two low-cost workplace supports that improve psychological safety: accessibility tools that let people adjust technology to their needs, and AI tools that help organize communication and reduce overload.
• Katherine says most workplace conflict around neurodivergent employees comes from either ego, trigger responses, or legitimate safety concerns that need curiosity and care.
• She closes by noting that HR often has less formal power than people assume, but progress is happening through committed HR, operations, and executive partners.

Timestamps

(00:00) Opening question on neurodivergence and self-identification
 (00:26) Katherine breaks down her neurodiversity across medical, mental health, and learning categories
 (01:56) Why rigid corporate policy still treats autism as a deficit
 (03:51) Universal design as a workplace and life principle
 (04:28) Equal value thinking and the difference between masking and compromise
 (05:28) Anti-ego training and how defensiveness works in the brain
 (07:18) Curiosity, communication styles, and building psychological safety
 (08:40) Trauma, illness, hormones, and workplace-triggered ego
 (10:33) Why the traditional resume should be fired
 (11:13) Skills-first hiring and ignoring irrelevant titles
 (12:38) Normalizing accommodations instead of making people ask for special treatment
 (14:14) Why interviewers must learn to ask questions in multiple ways
 (16:38) First 90 days onboarding mistakes and the need for thorough training
 (17:42) Letting neurodivergent employees set their own pace
 (18:42) Two zero-cost or low-cost adjustments that improve psychological safety
 (19:41) Accessibility software that lets users control their environment
 (20:58) AI for organizing communication and reducing repetition
 (23:45) Best uses for AI in hiring, practice, and resume help
 (24:40) Using AI to practice pushback and prepare for interview pressure
 (25:33) AI for alternative question phrasing and live communication support
 (27:47) AI for reminders, automation, and executive function support
 (29:39) Rewriting performance reviews to focus on objective outcomes
 (30:29) Measuring KPIs and team effectiveness with yes-or-no criteria
 (33:21) Why conflict often comes from the manager’s ego or a trauma response
 (35:31) The power of "Tell me more about that" in de-escalation
 (36:35) Counseling-style empathy in workplace conflict
 (37:46) HR’s limited formal power and why culture change still moves forward
 (39:54) Katherine shares where to connect and the types of work she still takes

In this conversation, Kenneth Mims speaks with Dr. Katie Strom about her neurodivergence journey, how late diagnosis reshaped her research, and why complexity theory offers a better way to understand neurodiversity than deficit-based models. They also get practical about teacher preparation, masking, scaffolding, assessment, and what real inclusion should look like in classrooms and higher education. Dr.  Strom shares how her lived experience, teaching, and writing connect through autoethnography, neuroaffirming practice, and her book Scaffolding the Language of Power. The throughline is clear: if schools want to support neurodivergent learners well, they need to move beyond awareness and into structural, relational, and collaborative change.

Key topics

• Dr.  Strom  explains her late-diagnosis journey, starting with anxiety and panic attacks in 2018, then ADHD diagnosis in 2023, and autism diagnosis in 2025.
• She describes how women often mask neurodivergence effectively, which can delay recognition and support.
• Her research centers on critical post-human perspectives on education and complexity theories on education, with neurodiversity emerging through autoethnography and self-study.
• Dr.  Strom  and a neurodiverse student wrote Pebbling Pedagogies, using the idea of “pebbling” as a way to think about care, recognition, and teaching through small meaningful gestures.
• She contrasts the medical model and social model with a complexity perspective, arguing that neurodivergence is produced through interacting systems rather than a single cause.
• Dr.  Strom  says a complexity lens is anti-deficit because it accounts for biology, environment, culture, work demands, trauma, and broader social pressures at once.

Timestamps

00:00 - “Are you neurodivergent?” and Katie’s diagnosis journey

00:47 - Anxiety, burnout, and realizing the symptoms were not the root cause

01:44 - ADHD diagnosis, autism diagnosis, and seeking a neuroaffirming assessment

02:37 - How neurodiversity fits into Katie’s broader education research

03:33 - Pebbling pedagogies and using small gestures as a teaching tool

05:40 - Why complexity theory beats the medical model’s either-or thinking

06:34 - From individual blame to systems thinking, genetics, and environment

08:55 - Why complexity is anti-deficit and helps during crises like COVID

10:23 - Moving from autism awareness to appreciation of difference

11:48 - Why diverse systems are stronger, richer, and more adaptive

14:15 - Gaps in teacher preparation and the problem with add-on training

15:39 - New teachers, low support, and turnover in the hardest schools

18:42 - Scaffolding sensory environments to reduce overwhelm

21:32 - Double empathy, communication barriers, and the mind-body split

24:09 - The case for sustained, school-based professional development

26:16 - Masking, unmasking, and what happens when coping strategies stop working

30:28 - Why standardized testing fails neurodivergent and multilingual students

32:20 - Competency-based assessment as a more meaningful alternative

34:58 - Communication autonomy and academic language as a language of power

37:19 - Breaking the dissertation into transparent, teachable genres

41:16 - Why policy must be co-created with teachers and educators

45:29 - Where to find Scaffolding the Language of Power

The views expressed are those of the guest, and this conversation is intended for general informational purposes only. This podcast and its associated materials should not be used as a substitute for professional medical, legal, or financial advice.

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Unlock the hidden strengths of neurodivergent students and learn how to transform their college journey with insights from Dr. Eric Endlich—psychologist, advocate, and author of Older Autistic Adults. Discover why understanding neurodiversity isn't just a personal breakthrough but a societal game-changer, especially as over half of Gen Z now identifying as neurodivergent shifts the landscape of higher education and beyond.Dr. Endlich shares his powerful story of diagnosis at midlife—which redefined his past and reshaped his future—shedding light on the relief, clarity, and empowerment that neurodivergence can bring. Through his journey with autism, he highlights how embracing neurodiversity benefits all of us—driving innovation, fostering inclusive environments, and expanding the definition of success.You'll discover:

• Practical steps to support neurodivergent teens transitioning to college, including self-advocacy, emotional awareness, and executive function skills. 
• How progressive universities are creating autism-friendly campuses with universal design principles that make learning accessible for everyone.
• The importance of authentic disclosure and how to navigate the complex decision of sharing your diagnosis.
• The power of inclusive diversity—why neurodiversity should be recognized as a core element of campus culture and societal growth.
• Strategies for parents and students to build personalized college lists that maximize support, fit, and opportunity—beyond just prestige or rankings.

Whether you're a parent guiding a neurodivergent teen, an educator crafting more inclusive spaces, or a student charting your own path, this episode offers critical insights to reduce stress, unlock potential, and foster resilience. The future of higher education lies in embracing all minds—are you ready to be part of the change?Dr. Eric Endlich is a licensed clinical psychologist, educational consultant, and advocate for neurodiversity, working nationwide and internationally to create supportive pathways for neurodivergent learners. His work helps illuminate the intersection of mental health, education, and societal progress.Tune in for inspiring stories, actionable advice, and a vision for a more inclusive, understanding world—because neurodiversity is our collective strength.