The Next Level Leader

Acting With Your Back: Carlo D'Amore on Storytelling, Trust, and Why Most Teams Don't Know How to Play

What if the fastest way to build trust on your team isn't a workshop, but a murder mystery? Carlo D'Amore, founder of the immersive experience company Live in Theater, joins Jon Harris to explore why storytelling is one of the most underused leadership skills, and how play, participation, and listening rebuild connection that corporate life quietly strips away.

Carlo D'Amore is the founder and creative director of Live in Theater, an award-winning immersive experience company that turns audiences into active participants through story. For 17 years, he has worked with companies including Apple, Meta, Netflix, Spotify, Goldman Sachs, Google, and Peacock, drawing on 30 years as a professional actor and creator.

In this episode, you'll learn:

Why story is a primal human need, not just a leadership or communication skill

The real difference between participation and alignment on a team

Why "playing the reality" of a fictional story creates genuine emotional trust

How shared experiences, like hearing your team laugh together, build lasting bonds

Why most companies don't actually know how to work as a team

What "acting with your back" teaches leaders about the power of real listening

Why letting go of control, and trusting your team's 85 percent, is a leadership skill worth learning

How immersive storytelling techniques translate into everyday workplace culture

Keywords: storytelling, immersive theater, team building, corporate training, trust building, leadership communication, psychological safety, active listening, experiential learning, participation vs alignment, Livin' Theater, employee engagement

Connect with Carlo D'Amore: Live in Theater for corporate and virtual offerings, Instagram @LiveInTheatre, and LinkedIn at Carlo D'Amore.

Hosted by Jon Harris on The Next Level Leader Podcast, bringing you practical tools and methodologies from top leadership voices to help you take your leadership to the next level.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome and introducing Carlo D'Amore of Live in Theater

00:54 Carlo's background: 17 years building an immersive theater company for Apple, Netflix, and more

02:01 From actor to founder: Carlo's path into storytelling

03:43 Why he started Live in Theater, and story as a primal human need

06:02 Why storytelling feels foreign and resisted in corporate settings

07:42 Overthinking, natural storytellers, and demystifying the craft

11:36 Participation vs. alignment: why the distinction matters for teams

12:18 The Google story: hearing your team laugh together for the first time

17:17 Trust as the foundation of high-performing teams

21:15 How immersive theater builds trust by playing the reality of the story

28:26 Why shared emotional experience creates lasting team bonds

32:00 Taking these lessons back to the day-to-day workplace

38:54 Acting with your back: listening as a leadership skill

41:43 Letting go of control: if you jump, the net will catch you

42:35 Where to find Carlo and Live in Theater

Subscribe to The Next Level Leader Podcast for more conversations with top leadership voices, and leave a review if this episode helped you level up.

Dr. Sarah Choudhary on AI Leadership, Alignment Over Balance, and Building Without a Co-Founder

Why do smart founders confuse being busy with being effective, and what does it really take to lead through the AI era without burning out?

Dr. Sarah Choudhary joins Jon Harris to break down her frameworks for high-stakes decisions, why she rejects work-life balance in favor of alignment, and how leaders should redesign their organizations around AI.

Dr. Sarah Choudhary is a technology executive, AI and data scientist with a PhD in data science, and a builder who has bootstrapped a portfolio of companies through ICE Innovations without outside funding. She is the author of Navigating AI and Data: A Leader's Guide to Digital Transformation and the founder of the nonprofit Talim, which expands access to education for women and girls.

In this episode, you'll learn:

Why self-funded founders develop a clarity most venture-backed founders never have to

Why Sarah rejects the idea of work-life balance in favor of alignment

A practical framework for high-stakes decisions: reversible vs. irreversible, and the future-self test

Why execution beats hype, and how decision fatigue quietly derails leaders

Why treating AI as just a productivity tool is a trap, and what redesigning around AI really means

The leadership question every AI rollout should start with: what work will I put back for my people

How Talim is expanding education access for women and girls, and why Sarah calls it infrastructure, not charity

Her closing advice for leaders and women: stop waiting for permission

Keywords: AI leadership, digital transformation, data science, decision-making frameworks, work-life alignment, burnout, execution vs hype, women in tech, self-funded entrepreneurship, responsible AI, Navigating AI and Data, Talim nonprofit, ICE Innovations, high-stakes decision-making

Connect with Dr. Sarah Choudhary: sarahchoudhary.com, where you'll find her book, her companies, Talim, and direct contact links.

Hosted by Jon Harris on The Next Level Leader Podcast, bringing you practical tools and methodologies from top leadership voices to help you take your leadership to the next level.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome and introducing Dr. Sarah Choudhary

02:00 Her path: a PhD in data science and 20+ years at the intersection of AI and business

02:23 Building ICE Innovations: bootstrapping multiple companies without outside funding

04:18 Why building alone forces a discipline most funded founders never develop

09:05 Why she rejects "balance" for "alignment" across work, family, and purpose

12:10 The power of deep work and eliminating context switching

15:34 The biggest misconception about high performers: execution beats hype

17:39 A framework for high-stakes decisions: reversible vs. irreversible

20:41 One-way doors, two-way doors, and knowing when a decision needs your best

23:19 Inside her book: Navigating AI and Data, A Leader's Guide to Digital Transformation

26:02 Why treating AI as just a productivity tool is a trap

27:17 AI, security, and the arms race between defenders and bad actors

28:07 Returning humanity to teams instead of just automating work away

34:14 Why you can't opt out of AI, and what a "surface level" understanding requires

37:39 Talim: expanding education access for women and girls

42:13 Closing advice: stop waiting for permission

Subscribe to The Next Level Leader Podcast for more conversations with top leadership voices, and leave a review if this episode helped you level up.

From Farm Girl to Bestselling Author: Kae Wagner on Turning Your Story Into a Book, a Brand, and a Business

What if the book sitting in your head could become your most powerful business card? Author and publishing strategist Kae Wagner joins Jon Harris to reveal why every leader has a story worth telling, the neuroscience of why storytelling sells, and how to turn your hardest chapters into your most valuable ones.

Kae Wagner is the founder of North Star Marketing and an author of multiple nonfiction and fiction books, including The 10 Power Principles of Marketing and The CEO's Little Black Book on Branding. She now runs an agency helping executives, coaches, and subject matter experts write, publish, and market books that build their personal brand and business.

In this episode, you'll learn:

Why self-published books became Kae's ticket to speaking stages and millions in sales

The real reason most people wrongly believe only celebrities and executives can write books

The neuroscience of storytelling: why the brain relaxes and remembers better through story

How business fables turn frameworks into character-driven, memorable lessons

The framework for finding your story: inciting incident, crisis, and transformation

Why vulnerability and authenticity are the foundation of a strong personal brand

How giving books away, not selling them, drives the real business value

What the Bold Authors Network offers writers of every genre

Keywords: book publishing, self-publishing, personal branding, storytelling, business fables, nonfiction writing, ghostwriting, author platform, thought leadership, book marketing, Bold Authors Network, North Star Marketing, vulnerability, authenticity

Connect with Kae Wagner: North Star Marketing and the Bold Authors Network

Hosted by Jon Harris on The Next Level Leader Podcast, bringing you practical tools and methodologies from top leadership voices to help you take your leadership to the next level.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome and introducing author Kae Wagner

01:32 Kae's background: from farm girl writing contest to entrepreneur

03:18 Founding North Star Marketing and writing The 10 Power Principles of Marketing

04:21 The CEO's Little Black Book on Branding and the power of a book to open doors

05:40 Self-publishing strategy: using books to build a network and land clients

06:31 Pivoting into fiction: the story that would not leave her alone

08:06 The myth that only celebrities and executives get to write books

09:11 The power of storytelling and why every story matters

11:47 Fiction vs. nonfiction: story is still rooted in truth

13:00 Jon's story: falling back in love with reading through The Da Vinci Code

16:34 The neuroscience of storytelling and why the brain craves story

19:04 Business fables: turning frameworks into character-driven stories

21:45 Working with Julian on Crash and Burn Learn and finding the real plot twists

26:13 10 Things I Learned From the Billionaire: transformation without crisis

29:00 Jon's crucible moment: rock bottom, sobriety, and rebuilding his life

34:05 Owning your story: turning shame into part of your brand

40:07 Vulnerability, authenticity, and the being vs. doing of personal brand

41:31 Where to find Kae: the Bold Authors Network

42:51 Why giving books away matters more than selling them

Subscribe to The Next Level Leader Podcast for more conversations with top leadership voices, and leave a review if this episode helped you level up.

Authority Isn't Influence: David Fung on Leading Change, Building Trust, and Why Great Leaders Are Great Teammates First

Ever gotten a promotion and expected people to finally listen to you? Executive coach David Fung joins Jon Harris to explain why authority without influence is just dictatorship, and breaks down the science-backed framework leaders need to build trust, drive change, and stop leading alone.

David Fung left a 23-year career in tech, including years in high-pressure technical sales, to become a leadership and executive coach. He now works with executives and executive teams navigating major transitions, helping them lead through chaos in their personal lives, work lives, and team dynamics.

In this episode, you'll learn:

Why authority without influence is dictatorship, and what true influence actually requires

The 3 elements of influence: connection, credibility, and relevance

Why great leaders must be great teammates before they can lead others well

The 3-part science of change: vision, dissatisfaction, and willingness

Jack Welch's approach to leading change: what it is, why it's happening, and what's in it for them

Why "leadership is lonely" is a myth, and how to build community as a senior leader

How self-leadership and modeling vulnerability build trust for after-action reviews

Why AI is disrupting outdated processes and spreadsheets before it disrupts leadership jobs

Connect with David Fung:

Website: https://coachfulcoaching.com/

Social Media Links: 

https://www.youtube.com/@coachfulcoaching

https://www.instagram.com/coachfulcoaching/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidfung2/

Hosted by Jon Harris on The Next Level Leader Podcast, bringing you practical tools and methodologies from top leadership voices to help you take your leadership to the next level.

Chapters:

00:00 Welcome, and why leadership coaches collaborate instead of compete

01:51 David Fung's path from 23 years in tech to executive coaching

04:04 What athletes and top salespeople teach us about competition and community

08:06 The myth of the "lone wolf" leader

09:58 Why giving first builds trust and reciprocity

12:11 Debunking the myth that "leadership is lonely"

14:01 Authority vs. influence: why authority alone is dictatorship

14:53 The 3 elements of influence: connection, credibility, relevance

20:05 Jack Welch's rule for leading change

21:00 Why organizations resist change: the science of safety

22:46 The 3-part theory of change: vision, dissatisfaction, willingness

26:24 Reading the moment: The First 90 Days and matching your leadership style

30:00 "We've faced change before": lessons from COVID, 9/11, and 2008

31:56 Where AI is really disrupting work (hint: it's not leadership jobs yet)

37:42 Why leaders should run after-action reviews like military and sports teams

38:06 Self-leadership: modeling vulnerability before asking for feedback

44:19 "To influence others, you have to show you can be influenced by them"

47:25 Final advice: start with self-leadership

Subscribe to The Next Level Leader Podcast for more conversations with top leadership voices, and leave a review if this episode helped you level up!

Guest Background

Forrest Derr spent about 18 years in the office furniture/supply industry, eventually becoming VP of Operations over logistics, warehousing, distribution, and technology. He then moved into telecom (VoIP and internet), where his company adopted EOS after reading Traction and worked with an implementer for four years. After a chance conversation with another fractional integrator, Forrest saw an opportunity to help multiple companies at once rather than working inside a single one, and now works as a fractional COO/integrator — primarily with companies already running on EOS. He also founded an EOS networking group in Fairhope, Alabama that has since grown to roughly 70 chapters nationwide.

What is EOS?

EOS is described as an operating system for running a business — not software, but a set of fundamental systems and structures covering vision alignment, clearly defined roles and responsibilities, and disciplined meeting rhythms (notably the weekly 90-minute "Level 10," or L10, meeting). Forrest estimates over 400,000 businesses currently run on EOS, some self-implemented and others guided by a certified implementer.

Building the Right Team: The Accountability Chart

A recurring theme was building an accountability chart around the needs of the business — not around the people currently in the building. Forrest advises leaders to imagine designing the org chart from scratch based on where the company needs to be in 12 months, then determine who fits which seat, rather than creating seats to accommodate long-tenured employees who may not fit ("Susie's been here 20 years" is not a reason to keep a seat that no longer serves the business).

Each seat should carry just 5–7 core responsibilities — the 20% of activities that drive 80% of results — paired with scorecard metrics so people know whether they're winning or losing without needing a manager to tell them.

Accountability and Resistance to Change

Introducing scorecards and real accountability typically surfaces resistance. Forrest calls people who self-select out "volunteers" — high performers embrace metrics, while low performers who prefer to stay unseen tend to leave. He argues this is healthy: losing someone unwilling to be held accountable usually brings relief to the rest of the team and clears the way to bring in a stronger replacement. He's observed a compounding effect where upgraded ("A-player") hires attract other strong talent from their networks.

The Visionary/Integrator Relationship

Forrest explained the two core EOS leadership roles:

• Visionary — typically the founder; idea-driven, emotional, often pursuing multiple directions at once.

• Integrator — the second-in-command who leads the leadership team and channels the visionary's energy toward focused execution.

Common Blind Spots

The blind spot Forrest raises most often with founders and leadership teams: What is the exit strategy? He argues every major business decision should be made in service of a defined future outcome — whether that's an ESOP conversion, a sale to private equity, or another path — and that many leaders are unknowingly building toward a valuation or timeline that their current business model can't support. Jon added a related distinction he uses with founders and solopreneurs: whether they're building a "lifestyle business" (which can't be sold apart from themselves) or a sellable asset — neither is wrong, but the distinction should be a deliberate choice that guides decisions.

Forrest intentionally works himself out of a job: 6–9 month (up to 12-month) contracts aimed at helping a company determine whether an internal "closet integrator" already exists or whether they need to hire one externally, then setting up the structure for a permanent hire. He typically works with three client businesses per week, one day each.

derrconsulting.com | LinkedIn: Forrest Derr

Julien Godbarge spent 15 years rising through a private equity-backed company before becoming CEO of a Dubai-based platform company. The first four years were a textbook private equity success story: process improvements, rebranding, tech upgrades, and an industry roll-up that made money and felt exhilarating. Then it unraveled. A flawed ERP dashboard inflated his EBITDA projections, post-pandemic supply chain issues forced him to buy equipment he'd planned to rent, debt covenants tightened, competitors turned hostile, and a new product launch dragged on. Within six months, he went from "top of the world" to breaking down in tears at an airport, unable to think clearly.

Julien and Jon unpack the blind spots that turned a run of external pressure into a full collapse: the "Atlas Syndrome" of believing you alone have to carry every burden, tying self-worth to performance and outcomes rather than process, and the danger of building an entire identity around a job or title. They also cover the "denial tax" - the cost of not processing hard things as they happen - and why resilience, not just raw talent or work ethic, is the trait that actually protects high performers. Julien now writes and coaches on this through his book, Crash and Learn, and his 10 Blind Spots assessment.

About Julien Godbarge: Former CEO of a private equity-backed platform company, author of Crash and Learn, and executive coach. After his own burnout and recovery, he built a framework around 10 leadership blind spots to help executives spot and avoid the same collapse.

Get in touch with Julien

Julien's Website - The 10 Blindspots

Connect on LinkedIn

Key Topics & Timestamps

• 00:02 — Julien's background: 15 years in a lower-middle-market PE-backed company, then CEO of a Dubai platform company

• 06:00 — The first four "great" years: process improvement, rebranding, tech stack overhaul, industry roll-up

• 07:38 — The first crack: a flawed ERP dashboard inflates EBITDA projections

• 09:00 — Compounding crises: supply chain shortages, forced equipment purchases, tightening debt covenants

• 10:10 — Fallout from the roll-up: competitors turn adversarial, one poaches half his sales team

• 11:32 — The six-month slide: stress → sleep loss → anxiety → depression → breakdown at the airport

• 16:16 — Why it's "lonely at the top" — isolation as both circumstance and self-imposed habit

• 18:08 — The "Atlas Syndrome": believing you alone must carry every burden

• 19:01 — Identity fused with job title/performance, and why that's fragile

• 22:19 — Performance-based self-worth, and how it starts in childhood (grades, rewards)

• 23:52 — Julien's bonus-negotiation story: linking family provision and self-worth to hitting an EBITDA number

• 26:14 — Why resilience — not just talent — is what coaches and scouts actually look for

• 32:20 — McKinsey's shift toward recruiting for resilience, not just pedigree

• 33:35 — Psychological safety as a prerequisite for talking about resilience without it turning into "participation trophy" mockery

• 41:04 — Reframing work-life balance as harmony measured over months/quarters, not days

• 41:38 — The "denial tax": the compounding cost of not processing setbacks in real time

• 42:52 — Process over outcome — judging effort and fulfillment, not just results

• 46:22 — Where to find help: 10blindspots.com and the 10 Blind Spots assessment

NEXT LEVEL WITH PETE SACCO

In this wide-ranging conversation, Jon and Pete cover everything from the impact of AI on the workforce to optimizing human performance and the intersection of those two topics.

Pete has a fascinating background with a wide-ranging experience - from technologist and tech founder to data-center consultant, author, and speaker - Pete covers a lot of ground.

Find out more about Pete: https://www.petesacco.com/

Let's Go Do Great Things!

www.apexperformance.one

Ahead of ISC West, I have a follow-up conversation with Tristin regarding all things Marketing and Branding.

As always, Tristin delivers a wealth of knowledge and actionable recommendations to take your Marketing game to the Next Level.

Connect with Tristin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristinvaccaro/

Let's Go Do Great Things!

Next Level w/ William C. Davis

In this episode, Jon sits down with leadership expert and author William C. Davis to unpack what’s broken in modern leadership—and how to fix it. With nearly 40 years of experience and a 90%+ retention track record, William shares why leadership must return to its core: people, trust, and connection.

This conversation explores the difference between managing and leading, the cost of poor leadership, and why humility, empathy, and self-awareness are essential for building high-performing teams. A powerful reminder that leadership isn’t about control—it’s about enabling others to succeed.

How to connect with William

https://www.williamcdavis.net/

In this episode of The Next Level Podcast, Jon Harris sits down with Jenny Casson — Olympian rower, entrepreneur, and performance coach — for a powerful conversation about resilience, reinvention, and the pursuit of purpose beyond competition. Jenny shares her journey from national team rower to co-founder of Daylilie Bras, revealing how setbacks, injuries, and transition moments can fuel growth.

They dive deep into the mindsets that drive sustained excellence — focusing on controllables, finding gratitude in hardship, and redefining success through curiosity and daily consistency. This is a masterclass in turning adversity into advantage and learning to belong in every room you walk into.

Key Takeaways

• Process over outcome: True fulfillment comes from the daily pursuit, not the single result.

• Resilience through reflection: “Be okay with not being okay” — your self-talk shapes your comeback.

• Performance framework: Be the best. If not, be your best. If not, just do your best — and give 100 % of what you have that day.

• Entrepreneurial purpose: Channel competitive drive into impact — build products and environments that make others feel seen.

• Belonging and leadership: Show up with intention, know your worth, and lead yourself before leading others.

  
  

  Get connected with Jenny and Daylilie:

  https://www.daylilie.com/

  https://www.instagram.com/daylilie_bras/

  https://www.instagram.com/jenny_joan_casson/

  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifercassonoly/