Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Transcript for Geoff Anders and Anna Salamon's Oct. 23 conversation, published by Rob Bensinger on November 8, 2021 on LessWrong.
Geoff Anders of Leverage and Anna Salamon of CFAR had a Twitch conversation on October 23, triggered by Zoe Curzi's post about having horrible experiences at Leverage.
Technical issues meant that the Twitch video was mostly lost, and the audio only resurfaced a few days ago, thanks to Lulie.
I thought the conversation was pretty important, so I'm (a) using this post the signal-boost the audio, for people who missed it; and (b) posting a transcript here, along with the (previously unavailable, and important for making sense of the audio) last two hours of chat log.
The chat messages I have aren't timestamped, and sometimes consist of side-conversations that don't directly connect with what Geoff and Anna are discussing. So I've inserted blocks of chat log at what seemed like roughly the right parts of the conversation; but let me know if any are in the wrong place for comprehension, and I'll move them elsewhere.
1. (1:57:57) Early EA history and EA/Leverage interactions
[...]Anna Salamon:All right, let's talk.Geoff Anders:All right, all right. Yeah, let's get to it.Anna Salamon:I hear that the rationality and Leverage communities have some sort of history!Geoff Anders:That's right. Okay, so basically, Anna, as I mentioned to you when we chatted about this, I wanted to talk about in general Leverage history, and then there's a long history with the rationality community, and right now, it seems like there's... I'd like to understand what happened with the relations, basically.
Like, earlier on, things were substantially more congenial. More communication. There were various types of joint events. Ben, who suggested he would be called by first name, organized the first solstice for the rationality community. He did that while working at Leverage. That was totally fine. I volunteered at the CFAR workshops. Ben also did that. Then, EA Summit 2013, I thought was sort of a big deal. We had you guys sort of do a half-workshop during that. I thought that was great. Ben reminded me that we actually held a book launch for MIRI somehow. I remember the event very vaguely. Yeah, but it was at Luke Nosek's house, and I don't know. Maybe it was a joint... I don't remember, but there was a bunch of stuff.Let's see. All right, yeah, so I just switched my audio. Ali, let me know if that's better or worse.
But anyway, so there was that, and then I feel like we just had lots of interests in common and so forth, but then somehow, things didn't end up working out as excellently as possible. So I was interested in just chatting about what happened, getting some common context on the history, maybe trying to...
sowgone: 'Our Final Invention', maybe
Oh, yeah. Maybe Our Final... Yes! Yes! I think that was the book. At least, that sounds pretty likely.
Yeah, so basically looking a bit at the past, and also trying to understand where things are presently, and maybe figuring out whether there's anything constructive to be done. Like, in some circumstances it seems like trust is so low that I'd love to know what could make things better, basically.
So anyway, I just talked for a bit. Yeah, so let's talk about it.Anna Salamon:Yeah. Are we still trying to end at 1:00, in 20 minutes?
Geoff Anders:I mean, I'm willing to go on longer. I know you had a thing, but you know-
benitopace: I'd be down for a 60 minute conversation, starting now.
Anna Salamon:Oh, I don't have a thing.Geoff Anders:Oh, okay. Yeah, so-Anna Salamon:Yeah.Geoff Anders:Apologies to all the viewers and so forth, but yeah, let's go to 1:30.
benitopace: Sg!
Anna Salamon:Great. So yeah, I don't know. I guess one thing I want to know...
Look, I'm going to try to tell history. I'm going to get it wrong. There's ...