The Orita Podcast

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Debbie Kemunto Pearce, Founder at CartStars. Debbie spent years selling software she had never actually used, then built an invitation-only network where vendors can't buy their way in.

• How one honest conversation with peers during a software purchase exposed her blind spot and sparked the idea for CartStars

• Why members called the first dinners "first dates," and what that taught Debbie about trust

• The strict rules that keep CartStars honest: brand leaders contribute or leave, and vendors only enter by recommendation

• Why operators across CartStars have shifted from vendor ROI claims to retention, contribution margin, and incremental lift

• The traits Debbie sees in the most effective operators: constant learning, no ego, and caring you can't fake

• Why building is meant to be hard, and how giving your team "the bones" means letting them fail

👥 Meet the guest

Debbie Kemunto Pearce, Founder at CartStars

👥 Meet the guest

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00:00] A Dollar, No Jacket: Debbie's Origin Story

[00:02:40] Not the Expert: Aaron's Founder Advantage

[00:06:29] Street Canvassing Taught Her to Love No

[00:12:09] Mutual Growth: Why Partnerships Felt Like Home

[00:14:05] The Software Purchase That Sparked CartStars

[00:17:17] Dinners vs Platforms: Trust Takes Time

[00:20:37] Executives, Introverts, and the Contribution Rule

[00:23:46] Retention, Margin, and the Incrementality Shift

[00:30:10] Golden Cart Awards: Making Great Operators Visible

[00:33:00] Too Many Rules? Why Trust Needs Guardrails

[00:36:21] You Can't Fake Caring: Traits of Top Operators

[00:41:57] Lean Team, Big Reach: Building Is Meant to Be Hard

[00:49:11] Aaron on Sharing Problems and Letting Go

[00:53:18] Give Your Team the Bones, Then Let Them Fail

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Jeremy Whisnant, Senior Director Ecommerce and Growth at BYLT Basics. Jeremy got his first purchase order from Amazon as an email attachment in 2002, and he's been figuring out how channels actually work together ever since. At BYLT Basics he's doing something most apparel brands haven't tried: building a real brand instead of just running a better ad.

• What Jeremy learned shutting down a $300M Sony DTC business and why that scale perspective still shapes how he thinks about channel decisions at BYLT today

• Why BYLT ran almost entirely on Instagram ads until 2021 and never spent a dollar on Google, and what that origin story means for where growth has to go next

• How BYLT uses differentiated UPCs and limited assortments to sell on Amazon without creating channel conflict against their own DTC site

• The shift from measuring every ad unit by the hour to brand storytelling with reach and frequency, and why that pivot requires a different kind of patience from the whole team

• Why Jeremy argues that if your brand is not actively controlling its Amazon presence, Debbie's desert shop from TJ Maxx is controlling it for you

• How BYLT is expanding to 22 stores in premium malls while keeping wholesale deliberately narrow and building toward golf specialty and experiential retail

👥 Meet the guest

Jeremy Whisnant, Senior Director Ecommerce and Growth at BYLT Basics

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00:00] From Gateway to BYLT: 25 Years in Digital Commerce

[00:02:39] Getting the First Amazon PO in 2002 Before Anyone Cared

[00:04:06] Small Companies Teach What Big Ones Cannot

[00:08:24] Experience Gives Perspective: The Sony Shutdown Story

[00:16:12] Landing at BYLT and What Made the Opportunity Worth the Commute

[00:17:57] Why Not Knowing Apparel Was Actually an Advantage

[00:20:06] How to Win the Internal Argument Against Discounting

[00:25:19] Amazon Is a System Not a Partner: How to Work It

[00:29:03] Which Channels to Prioritize When You Start a New Brand

[00:31:17] BYLT's Channel Map: DTC, 22 Stores, Wholesale, and Amazon

[00:35:30] Preventing Channel Conflict With Differentiated SKUs

[00:39:17] Short-Term Revenue vs Long-Term Brand: The Pivot BYLT Is Making

[00:43:20] Brand Storytelling at Scale: Gronk, Surf Photography, and Earned Credibility

[00:48:39] Going Robotic: The Grand Prairie Warehouse Move

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Hansen Liang, Founder Stealth Startup. Hansen spent seven years inside Klaviyo building new products like a startup founder, reporting straight to the CPO, pitching the founders like investors, and earning headcount by traction. Now he's left to do it for real, building AI agents in stealth.

• How Klaviyo structured its New Products team as a startup inside a startup with Andrew and Ed acting as the board

• Why you can't subsidize your way out of bad product-market fit, no matter how strong your sales org is

• The two battles every internal founder fights and why the internal one is often harder than finding PMF

• Why product leaders should have more customer exposure than anyone in the org, salespeople included

• How Hansen ships 1,000 PRs a month with two AI models adversarially reviewing each other's code

• His spicy take on Google and Meta and why the biggest ad platforms may be brands' biggest problem

👥 Meet the guest

Hansen Liang, Founder Stealth Startup; previously New Products, Klaviyo

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00:00] Meet Hansen: Seven Years Building Klaviyo's New Products

[00:02:04] A Kid in China Dreaming About the iPhone

[00:04:00] The Co-op Binder That Changed Everything

[00:07:23] You Have to Just Care: What Great Product Takes

[00:09:26] Klaviyo's Accidental First Growth PM

[00:14:13] A Startup Inside a Startup: How New Products Ran

[00:19:32] Two Battles: External PMF vs Internal Buy-In

[00:22:32] You Can't Subsidize Bad Product-Market Fit

[00:25:39] Where the Buck Stops: Customer Exposure

[00:27:37] The Launch Is a Milestone, Not the Endpoint

[00:31:25] What's Next: AI Agents for Creator Marketing

[00:37:41] 1,000 PRs a Month: The Two-Model Workflow

[00:44:06] The Spicy Take: Google, Meta, and What Breaks

[00:46:47] After Party: Aaron on Authenticity and AI Humility

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Paul Voge, Co-Founder & Former CEO at Aura Bora. Paul started Aura Bora because he drank 10 to 12 cans of sparkling water a day and thought lavender cucumber sounded good. Six and a half years later he sold the company, hiked a lot, and relearned how to read fiction.

• How Paul went store by store across the country in a rental car, calling buyers on his cell phone, to get into 4,000 independent natural stores before ever touching a major chain

• Why sparkling water is about as bad a DTC product as you could design in a lab, and the one reason Aura Bora built a Shopify store anyway

• What actually happened to consumer CPG fundraising after 2021, why the goalpost moved so fast, and what that meant for brands at 10 to 50 million in sales

• The honest account of what a 90-day acquisition process looks like when your board decides it is time to sell and the market has already shifted under you

• Why Paul spent five months doing almost nothing after the exit, and what that taught him about what he had been sacrificing without realizing it

• His one word to the wise for every founder running hard right now: find one day a week where you do nothing for work, and do not let AI just become another tool to help you output more

👥 Meet the guest

Paul Voge, Co-Founder & Former CEO at Aura Bora

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00:00] Before Sparkling Water: Buying Boring Businesses in Colorado

[00:01:33] The Kitchen Experiment That Became a National Brand

[00:03:44] What the Sparkling Water Market Actually Looks Like

[00:05:17] Craft Sparkling Water: The Differentiation Thesis

[00:07:42] Pricing at 2x the Competition and Why It Worked

[00:09:26] What Aura Bora Nailed Early and What Did Not Translate

[00:11:29] 4000 Independent Stores: The Smiling and Dialing Playbook

[00:14:04] Why Long-Term Relationships Run CPG Whether You Like It or Not

[00:16:35] Selling Sparkling Water Online Is a Terrible Idea (With One Exception)

[00:20:47] Raising 23 Million Dollars and What the Capital Markets Look Like Now

[00:24:37] Where Founders Actually Get Money for Consumer Products Today

[00:27:50] The Series B That Became an Acquisition and Why the Timing Was Not the Plan

[00:32:50] What Happens After You Hand Over the Keys

[00:36:15] What Paul Does Now and Why He Loves Game Shows

[00:39:25] The Four Burners Problem: What Paul Would Do Differently

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Liz Hayes, CRM Marketing Manager at MESHKI. In beauty, you predict need. In fashion, you have to understand desire, and that changes everything about retention.

• Liz Hayes explains why fashion CRM has to interpret intent when customers don't have natural replenishment cycles.

• MESHKI adapts its global retention strategy to what customers in the US, UK, and Australia actually value.

• Data should make creativity smarter, not dictate it: historical performance can tell you what worked before, but it can't create desire on its own.

• MESHKI automates eligibility, timing, suppression, channel logic, and lifecycle triggers — while protecting the human judgment behind creative, tone, and cultural context.

• Liz's rule for AI and automation: automate the logic, not the taste.

• Her advice for BFCM: look outside CRM for inspiration and make every message earn attention.

👥 Meet the guest

Liz Hayes, CRM Marketing Manager at MESHKI

🎙 Hosted by

Hosted by Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00:00] Meet Liz Hayes at MESHKI

[00:03:13] CRM Beyond the Traditional Remit

[00:05:50] Beauty Predicts Need, Fashion Creates Desire

[00:08:00] Reading Intent Behind Fashion Purchases

[00:10:19] Data Shouldn't Dictate Creativity

[00:12:31] Building CRM Across Global Markets

[00:15:51] Getting CRM Into Every Room

[00:26:58] Automate the Logic, Not Taste

[00:29:54] MESHKI's Flexible Black Friday Playbook

[00:33:32] Auditing Retention From the Ground Up

[00:38:07] Look Outside CRM for Inspiration

[00:41:13] Liz's Three Big Takeaways

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron and Daniel sit down with Craig Foldes, Founder & CEO at ChatWalrus. Craig learned the hard way that AI adoption is not about collecting more AI tools, it's about changing how people actually work.

• After leading 50 AI pilots at Crocs, Craig concluded that forcing teams into 18 different tools creates more friction than value.

• ChatWalrus grew out of live AI training for founders, including a few six-figure months during Craig’s paternity leave.

• The biggest adoption unlock is closing the “imagination gap” by showing operators what good AI use looks like in their own jobs.

• Craig argues the whole organization should learn the tools, while executives prioritize the few projects that actually matter.

• Senior expertise still compounds: the strongest operators use AI to move faster because they already know what good work looks like.

• His test for AI ROI is blunt: “What is the ROI of your laptop? What is the ROI of electricity?”

👥 Meet the guest

Craig Foldes, Founder & CEO, ChatWalrus

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

Daniel Brady, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00:00] Craig Foldes Enters the Chat

[00:02:00] From Jibbitz to Crocs AI

[00:04:00] Why 50 AI Pilots Failed

[00:07:00] AI Becomes the Operating System

[00:11:00] Closing the Imagination Gap

[00:15:00] How ChatWalrus Became a Business

[00:19:00] Ignore the AI Tool Avalanche

[00:22:00] Who Actually Owns AI Adoption

[00:25:00] Deterministic Workflows Beat AI Theater

[00:29:00] AI Is a Tool Like Excel

[00:35:00] Expertise Still Creates the Edge

[00:41:00] The AI Slop Problem

[00:47:00] This Is the Worst AI Gets

[00:50:00] Stop Asking for AI ROI

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Forest Bronzan. Forest sold the largest retention agency in ecommerce, burned out, swore he would never go back, and then built Jetset anyway. This time with no account managers, no green teams, and a very different definition of retention.

• Why the pitch that closed every Email Aptitude deal was one sentence: we are not a big agency that tries to be good at everything

• The agency cycle Forest came back to fix: take any revenue, hire green, push margins, and watch brands get someone two years out of college running a meaningful account

• What world-class customer experience actually means beyond having Gorgias, including the NPS mistake almost every brand makes

• Sentiment IQ: the internal tool Jetset built because nothing on the market tracks customer-level sentiment toward the brand

• The AI horror stories walking in the door: one bad recommendation that cost $75K and a custom agent that suppressed the wrong segment for a $400K holiday loss

• The 80 percent question every enterprise brand is now asking, and where that last 20 percent quietly compounds into disaster

👥 Meet the guest

Forest Bronzan, Co-Founder and CEO at Jetset

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00] Forest Bronzan: From Email Aptitude to Tinuiti to Jetset

[01:51] Burned Out and Back: Why He Missed Agency Life

[03:02] The Green Team Problem Every Agency Has

[06:06] The One-Line Pitch That Closed Every Deal

[08:58] Retention Beyond Email and SMS: The Jetset Thesis

[10:25] What World-Class Experience Actually Means

[12:55] Stop Hoping NPS Improves: Making Sentiment Actionable

[15:03] The Five-Star Hotel Test and Pattern Disruption

[17:37] What Forest Looks For Before Taking a Brand On

[19:38] The Two-Part Audit: Retention Scorecards and CX Inventory

[21:51] CX Is Not a Support Center, It Is a Revenue Driver

[25:26] Why Jetset Built Sentiment IQ and Refuses to Sell It

[28:45] The AI Legion: $75K and $400K Mistakes Walking In the Door

[32:49] The 80 Percent Question Enterprise Brands Are Asking

[35:11] AI Support Is Fine. The Human Concierge Is the Edge.

[38:12] Fundamentals Before Fancy: The Personalization Trap

[39:48] What Survives the Next Twelve Months

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Jessica Lee. Jessica started Modern Citizen with a small friends and family round, never raised again, and just celebrated ten years in business. Most of the funded brands from her era are gone. She has a theory about why.

• The Gap Inc. training that most fashion founders never get: rotating through merchandising, inventory, production, and strategy before ever starting a brand

• Why she believes CAC should be positive from the first transaction, and why betting on LTV never made sense to her in apparel

• Not a workwear brand, but a brand for women who work: the psychographic positioning that has mothers and daughters shopping together

• The white blazer of April 2020 and how a sub-fifteen-person team pivoted an entire fall assortment while big retail watched inventory arrive on boats

• Sublease first, sign later: the real estate strategy that let a bootstrapped brand open stores in the two most expensive markets in America

• Her reframe that stopped Aaron mid-sentence: retention is not a metric, it is whether you are delivering on the brand promise

👥 Meet the guest

Jessica Lee, Founder and CEO at Modern Citizen

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00] Jessica Lee: Ten Years of Modern Citizen

[00:37] The Gap Inc. Rotational Program: Learning the Business of Fashion

[03:22] From Product Functions to the Strategy Group

[06:00] Working M&A and Watching DTC Get Coined

[08:00] Something Specific for Someone: The Modern Citizen Thesis

[09:38] Building With a Business Partner and No Institutional Money

[11:54] Ten Years In, Closer to the Brand Promise Than Ever

[13:30] Psychographic Over Demographic: Mothers and Daughters Shopping Together

[15:11] Why She Never Raised: Control, Discipline, and Product Market Fit

[19:13] Coming From Retail: Knowing the Margin Structure From Day One

[20:51] CAC Positive From the First Transaction

[21:28] Two Years of Word of Mouth, Then the First Marketing Budget

[23:52] Consistency Is the Superpower: We Thought You Were Huge

[26:04] The First Thousand-Unit Bet and Learning to Take Risks

[29:46] One Big Bet at a Time: Managing Founder Energy Through Four Kids

[31:19] COVID: The White Blazer That Never Had a Chance

[33:43] Showrooms, Subleases, and Re-Entering Stores in 2024

[37:57] Retention Is Whether You Deliver on the Brand Promise

[40:25] Claude, Chat Walrus, and Freeing a Small Team From Admin Work

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Thomas Lalas. Thomas ran an AI startup that died the way most startups die: great at acquiring customers, terrible at keeping them. He has spent the last eight years making sure nobody he works with repeats that mistake.

• The 90-day thesis: why the first three months after purchase decide almost everything about LTV, and what the best brands do inside that window

• The subscription-only study: what 160 supplement brands revealed about buy box design, from OTP-first to the AG1 model to no one-time option at all

• The Tidal effect: how accidental renewals inflate month-two retention and quietly destroy month twelve

• Reading the retention curve like a diagnosis, including the call where Thomas guessed a brand's vertical from the shape of the curve alone

• His LTV to CAC framework and the Goldilocks zone between 3.5 and 4 where brands can start stealing market share

• The question neither Thomas nor Aaron can answer: why brands have unlimited budgets for acquisition and capped budgets for keeping the customers they already paid for

👥 Meet the guest

Thomas Lalas, Director of Retention and Loyalty at Dose and author of Retention Economics

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00] Thomas Lalas: Retention Systems for Eight and Nine Figure Brands

[02:14] The AI Startup That Died From Bad Retention

[04:30] Why LTV Is Where the Money Is, Not ROAS

[07:40] Email and SMS First: Prove the Economics Before Adding Channels

[10:19] Why You Cannot Accelerate Retention Data

[12:17] What It Takes to Work With Thomas: Risk, Patience, Speed

[17:09] The First Thing He Audits: OTP to Subscription Ratio

[19:39] The 160 Supplement Brand Study: Subscription Only Wins

[22:14] The Tidal Effect: Accidental Renewals and the Month Two Trap

[24:49] Guessing the Vertical From the Shape of the Curve

[26:12] Every Brand Can Lift Retention Ten Percent

[27:30] The LTV to CAC Goldilocks Zone: 3.5 to 4

[31:18] Retention Starts at the Ad, Not the Purchase

[33:30] Do Not Hire Us First: When Post-Purchase Systems Cannot Save You

[34:37] The Question Neither of Them Can Answer

[37:52] Why He Wrote Retention Economics and Why Recharge Made It Required Reading

[41:06] The People Worth Following in Retention

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel

In this episode of The Orita Podcast, Aaron Schwartz sits down with Michael Epstein. Michael spent 25 years in ecommerce fixing what he calls nine-figure brands losing eight figures. The tool that kept working when nothing else did was the postcard.

• Why turnarounds taught him that most struggling brands do not need magic, they need blocking, tackling, and a culture where people actually understand the numbers

• The thesis behind PostPilot: every digital channel gets more crowded and expensive over time, while the mailbox gets emptier and postage stays capped

• Two years of people laughing at direct mail, and the iOS 14 moment that changed everything

• The acquisition AI story: an identity graph covering essentially every US household, and why data beats the old data-broker model

• The biggest testing mistake brands still make, and why Black Friday is the worst possible time to try a new channel

• Aaron on the subscriber fallacy: why being on your email list does not mean email is what moves someone to buy

👥 Meet the guest

Michael Epstein, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at PostPilot

🎙 Hosted by

Aaron Schwartz, Co-Founder and Co-CEO at Orita.ai

🎧 Chapters

[00:00] Michael Epstein: 25 Years in Ecommerce, Two Co-CEOs

[01:19] Nine-Figure Brands Losing Eight Figures: The Turnaround Years

[02:20] The Spreadsheet Problem That Sparked Klaviyo for Direct Mail

[03:55] Most Broken Brands Just Need Blocking and Tackling

[08:54] Walking Every Employee Through the P&L

[11:01] OKRs: Imperfect, Necessary, and Better Than Rowing in Circles

[12:47] What Michael Misses About the Brand Side and What He Does Not

[15:03] We Are the Customer: How Empathy Built PostPilot

[17:29] The Law of Shitty Click-Throughs and the Capped-Cost Mailbox

[19:31] Two Years of Being Laughed At, Then iOS 14 Hit

[21:24] Shopify and Klaviyo: The Integrations That Changed the Channel

[22:33] Do Not Test Direct Mail on Black Friday

[26:19] Why Brands Test Meta Seriously and Direct Mail With Pocket Change

[29:04] Acquisition AI: An Identity Graph of Every US Household

[32:08] What Is Next for Direct Mail

[35:43] The Subscriber Fallacy: Email Signup Does Not Mean Email Converts

[38:46] Take Off the Marketer Hat, Put On the Consumer Hat

🌐 Check out Orita.ai for more episodes of The Orita Podcast, where we sit down with the most interesting operators, marketers, and founders in e-commerce to talk about what’s working right now. Hosted by the Orita team. Orita uses machine learning to help brands send smarter, more profitable marketing, by figuring out who actually wants to hear from you and when.

🚀 Get your free email audit from Orita, turn segments into superpowers: https://orita.ai

🎧 Listen on Spotify & Apple

📩 Subscribe for more founder‑grade retention intel