In this episode of The Other Side of the Chart, host Dr. Jill Goldenberg sits down with Dr. Kevin Larsen, Senior Vice President of Clinical Innovation and former leader at CMS and ONC, to explore the evolution of medical documentation, from handwritten charts to AI-generated notes.

Together, they unpack how documentation has shifted from a clinician’s memory aid to a complex record serving patients, payers, regulators, and more. The conversation spans the promise and pitfalls of OpenNotes, the elusive goal of a true longitudinal care plan, and the early “Nokia cell phone” stage of ambient AI in healthcare.

With stories from his career leading health systems, policy, and innovation, Dr. Larsen reflects on how documentation can either widen the distance between people or bring them closer together. At its core, the discussion asks: Who is the medical note really for and how can it better serve patients and clinicians alike?

🎙️ Episode 1: Living the System – What Patients Wish We Knew

Guest: Dalia – lawyer, mom, patient, and lifelong “VIP” (very involved patient)

Summary:
In this powerful premiere episode, host Dr. Jill Goldenberg sits down with Dalia, a lawyer and mother who has spent her entire life navigating the healthcare system. Diagnosed with her first tumor as a toddler and with multiple distinct cancers over the years, Dalia shares what it’s like to live on the receiving end of a system that often feels impersonal, disjointed, and difficult to navigate — even for the most informed patients.

Dalia opens up about:

• The emotional toll of living with chronic, life-threatening illness

• Moments of both dismissal and deep compassion in her care

• The importance of open notes and patient access to the medical record

• How system design — from scheduling to physical space — shapes patient experience

• Her vision for a better healthcare system that integrates public health, social supports, and simplified processes

Through Dalia’s story, we’re reminded that healthcare is personal, and the systems we build must reflect that. This episode is essential listening for anyone designing or delivering care — and for those ready to reimagine healthcare with patients at the center.

Welcome to The Other Side of the Chart — a podcast for healthcare leaders in technology, operations, and policy... and for anyone who's ever felt lost in the system.

Hosted by Dr. Jill Goldenberg, a physician and leader in clinical informatics and value-based care, this show explores what healthcare could be if we designed it around real people. Each episode features candid conversations with patients, clinicians, and innovators — uncovering the human stories behind the data and the systems behind the care.

In this short teaser, you’ll hear a glimpse from our premiere episode with Dalia — a lawyer, mom, and lifelong patient living with multiple cancers. And in our second episode, Dr. Kevin Larson joins us to unpack what clinical notes are really for — and what happens when patients can finally read them.

Subscribe now and join us as we reimagine a healthcare system that works better for everyone — on both sides of the chart.

Upcoming Episodes:

• Episode 1: Dalia’s Story — What Patients Wish We Knew

• Episode 2: For the Record: Who Are We Documenting For with Dr. Kevin Larsen

Credits:
Intro/outro music: “Relaxing Motivational Corporate” by Fretbound, licensed under CC BY 4.0.
freemusicarchive.org/music/fretbound

Connect with Jill Goldenberg on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jillgoldenberg