Many believe that Apple’s practices over recent years are threatening a fair and open internet, so I sit down with Dustee Jenkins, Spotify’s Chief Public Affairs Officer, to discuss why Spotify, Patreon, Epic Games, and more have been fighting to level the digital playing field.

Chapters

0:00 - Covering background and biases 

6:04 - Dustee’s initial thoughts

7:19 - Userbase comparison (Apple vs Spotify)

8:44 - If Apple Music pays artists more than Spotify

13:10 - Why people should be open-minded about this topic

15:59 - How fair competition should be within the digital market

17:23 - (Part 1) How Apple benefitted from “There’s an app for that” 

19:46 - When Apple introduced the 30% charge and more

22:09 - Apple’s belief that Spotify owes them

23:37 - Apple squashing other companies’ revenue

25:12 - Apple suppressing competitor messaging 

26:41 - (Part 1) Apple quietly updating its terms, often 

28:02 - The EU siding with Spotify, fining Apple $2 billion

29:24 - The Digital Markets Act and Spotify taking this fight worldwide

32:22 - Tech legislation in the EU vs US

33:50 - Google has been willing to work with Spotify

34:37 - The importance of Epics Games vs Apple (very timely)

38:27 - Huge update, US court ruling allows communication 

41:34 - What Spotify wants moving forward (Laws, not just rulings)

43:03 - How people can stay involved

43:37 - A lot of companies being afraid to speak out 

45:22 - When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek decided to take on Apple 

47:24 - Why this fight is about the future of the internet

49:00 - (Part 2) How Apple benefitted from “There’s an app for that” 

52:56 - (Part 2) Apple quietly updating its terms, often (Ex: audiobooks)

55:25 - How not tackling this adds more expenses for consumers

56:07 - Spotify’s experience with the Epic Games ruling since 

56:56 - Dustee’s experience with journalism 

59:26 - A learning for those interested in Communications 

1:01:35 - The role work ethic and curiosity play in Dustee’s life

1:02:54 - What music Dustee is listening to lately 

1:03:55 - Outro

Intro animation by Black Book Studio: https://www.blackbook.studio/

You can also find Dustee on

X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/DusteeJenkins

Spotify resources mentioned

Loud and Clear: https://loudandclear.byspotify.com/

Time to Play Fair: https://timetoplayfair.com/

Court ruling updates: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2025-05-01/following-landmark-court-ruling-spotify-submits-new-app-update-to-apple-to-benefit-u-s-consumers/

You can also find me on

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julesterpak

X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/julesterpak

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@julesterpak

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/julesterpak/

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/julesterpak

Substack: https://www.julesterpak.com/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/user/31cv2j5da4stkrv6mysp5xfetb3m

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jules-terpak/id1772071442

You can find "Fishbowl with Jules Terpak" on

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fishbowlpod

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fishbowlpod

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/fishbowlpod/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4WkJ18YFr9s8OSXGIx1fM9

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fishbowl-with-jules-terpak/id1787042781

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Other: https://discord.gg/8ueURBRvc7

My production gear: https://amzn.to/3OFWWJv

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