Many believe that Apple’s practices over recent years are threatening a fair and open internet, so I sit down with Dustee Jenkins, Spotify’s Chief Public Affairs Officer, to discuss why Spotify, Patreon, Epic Games, and more have been fighting to level the digital playing field.
Chapters
0:00 - Covering background and biases
6:04 - Dustee’s initial thoughts
7:19 - Userbase comparison (Apple vs Spotify)
8:44 - If Apple Music pays artists more than Spotify
13:10 - Why people should be open-minded about this topic
15:59 - How fair competition should be within the digital market
17:23 - (Part 1) How Apple benefitted from “There’s an app for that”
19:46 - When Apple introduced the 30% charge and more
22:09 - Apple’s belief that Spotify owes them
23:37 - Apple squashing other companies’ revenue
25:12 - Apple suppressing competitor messaging
26:41 - (Part 1) Apple quietly updating its terms, often
28:02 - The EU siding with Spotify, fining Apple $2 billion
29:24 - The Digital Markets Act and Spotify taking this fight worldwide
32:22 - Tech legislation in the EU vs US
33:50 - Google has been willing to work with Spotify
34:37 - The importance of Epics Games vs Apple (very timely)
38:27 - Huge update, US court ruling allows communication
41:34 - What Spotify wants moving forward (Laws, not just rulings)
43:03 - How people can stay involved
43:37 - A lot of companies being afraid to speak out
45:22 - When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek decided to take on Apple
47:24 - Why this fight is about the future of the internet
49:00 - (Part 2) How Apple benefitted from “There’s an app for that”
52:56 - (Part 2) Apple quietly updating its terms, often (Ex: audiobooks)
55:25 - How not tackling this adds more expenses for consumers
56:07 - Spotify’s experience with the Epic Games ruling since
56:56 - Dustee’s experience with journalism
59:26 - A learning for those interested in Communications
1:01:35 - The role work ethic and curiosity play in Dustee’s life
1:02:54 - What music Dustee is listening to lately
1:03:55 - Outro
Intro animation by Black Book Studio: https://www.blackbook.studio/
You can also find Dustee on
X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/DusteeJenkins
Spotify resources mentioned
Loud and Clear: https://loudandclear.byspotify.com/
Time to Play Fair: https://timetoplayfair.com/
Court ruling updates: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2025-05-01/following-landmark-court-ruling-spotify-submits-new-app-update-to-apple-to-benefit-u-s-consumers/
You can also find me on
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julesterpak
X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/julesterpak
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@julesterpak
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/julesterpak/
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/julesterpak
Substack: https://www.julesterpak.com/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/user/31cv2j5da4stkrv6mysp5xfetb3m
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jules-terpak/id1772071442
You can find "Fishbowl with Jules Terpak" on
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@fishbowlpod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fishbowlpod
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/fishbowlpod/
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4WkJ18YFr9s8OSXGIx1fM9
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fishbowl-with-jules-terpak/id1787042781
Other: https://discord.gg/8ueURBRvc7
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Business inquiries: [email protected]
