The Pastoral Finance Podcast

Last week the question was how much you need to retire. This week it's the one that comes from the diligent pastor staring at a healthy pre-tax balance: should I do a Roth conversion? He wants a clean yes or no. There isn't one, and for a pastor the honest answer looks different than the advice you'll find everywhere else.

The standard Roth pitch is built for a regular taxpayer. Pay the tax now, let it grow and come out tax free later, no required withdrawals hanging over you. But you're not a regular taxpayer. You have a church 403(b) and a housing allowance, and that allowance doesn't stop the day you retire. Money from a church retirement plan can be designated as housing allowance, and the part you actually spend on housing comes out free of federal income tax. You already own an account that pays you tax free in retirement. So converting those dollars can mean paying tax now, out of pocket, to buy a benefit you already have.

This episode explores:

Additional topics include one simple habit worth building with any money recommendation, asking how the person making it gets paid, and why the clean yes or no you came in wanting is the answer that tends to cost pastors the most.

Before you move a dollar, get a clear picture of where your retirement income will come from and which pieces the housing allowance is already protecting. The Plan Builder at pastoralfinance.com is built for exactly that, and there's a one-page Roth conversion checklist there too, the questions to answer before you convert anything.

About the Host:

This show provides education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Consult a qualified professional familiar with clergy taxation before taking action.

Show notes:

Ask a pastor how much they need to retire and you'll get some version of the same request. They want a number. One clean figure they can write on a sticky note for the bathroom mirror and aim at for the next ten years.

This episode is about why that number, on its own, is the wrong thing to chase. Not because the math doesn't matter, but because there's no single number. There's no single retirement. Two pastors the same age, with the same amount saved, can be in completely different places. One can retire this Sunday. One has a real gap to close. And it has almost nothing to do with the money. It's the life each of them pictured.

This episode explores:

Additional topics include the pastoral image of the shepherd who knows the condition of his flock rather than guessing at it, why most of the fear pastors carry about retirement is really about not knowing, and a simple order of operations: picture the life first, price it second, always in that order.

Mentioned in this episode: Legacy Together, a journal that walks couples through exactly this conversation. The first week is free at LegacyTogetherBook.com. When you're ready to put a number to the life you pictured, the tools at pastoralfinance.com are built for it.

About the Host:

This show provides education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Consult a qualified professional familiar with clergy taxation before taking action.

Episode 8 · You're Paying for Ministry Out of Your Own Pocket

Last week the assignment was two numbers: what your church believes it provides you, and what actually gets to your house and stays there. This week Todd closes the gap between them, and the best part is that nobody's pay has to change for it to work.

Meet the pastor with 19,000 miles on an old pickup, a glove box full of receipts, and a habit a lot of ministers share: quietly paying for ministry out of his own household and assuming it evens out at tax time. It doesn't anymore. Since the tax law changed, a W-2 pastor gets nothing back on his income tax for a dollar spent doing ministry, and the housing allowance quietly knocks out part of the expenses he could otherwise claim. The fix isn't a deduction. It's making sure the expense never becomes your income in the first place.

This episode explores:

This is part two of the pay series that began with Episode 7, "Pastor, How Is Your Pay Determined?" Todd also shares that his new book, Don't Bury It, is coming soon.

About the Host:

More information, plus a free church budget template with the reimbursement line already in it, at pastoralfinance.com

This show provides education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Consult a qualified professional familiar with clergy taxation before taking action.

Episode 7 · Pastor, How Is Your Pay Determined?

You've probably sat in this meeting. The board works down the budget line by line, gets to the pastor's line, and there's a pause. Then somebody says, "What'd we do last year, three percent? Alright, let's do three." Four minutes on the number that sets a family's life for the next twelve months. Nobody's a villain. They just were never handed a method.

A number nobody decided is a number nobody can defend, including you. This episode is about getting the categories straight so you can finally see what you are actually paid, and then getting a method in place so the number is the result of something instead of an accident.

This episode explores:

Plus the bivocational pastor's version of this, why a properly designated housing allowance still applies to part-time ministry income, and a one-page assignment: write down what your church believes it provides you, then what actually gets to your house and stays there, and look at the gap.

Todd also shares news of his new book, Don't Bury It, coming soon. Short on purpose, and written for the pastor who has been meaning to get to this for about nine years.

Next week, episode 8 covers how to close that gap with an accountable reimbursement plan, without anyone's pay changing.

About the Host:

More information, plus a free church budget template, at pastoralfinance.com

This show provides education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Consult a qualified professional familiar with clergy taxation before taking action.

Episode 6 · Does a Pastor's Housing Allowance Pass to the Surviving Spouse?

Some questions never get asked out loud in a meeting. They get asked in a hallway, or in an email late at night after everyone else has gone to bed. Here is one of them: when my husband passes, do I keep the housing allowance?

The answer is no. The housing allowance ends with the minister whose ministry created it, and a lot of couples are carrying the wrong answer around right now without knowing it. This episode explains why, and what to do about it while it is still easy to fix.

This episode explores:

Additional topics include a surviving spouse's beneficiary options, the four steps every ministry couple should take now (from running the survivor number to checking the beneficiary form), the role of term life insurance during the working years, and why planning ahead is an act of love, not a lack of faith.

About the Host:

More information available at pastoralfinance.com

This show provides education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Consult a qualified professional familiar with clergy taxation before taking action.

Episode 5 · The Mortgage Is Gone. The Housing Allowance Isn't.

A pastor called me the week he made his last mortgage payment. He wasn't celebrating. He wanted to know if his housing allowance was about to disappear.

The answer is no. But almost nobody had ever explained the part that actually matters.

In this episode we walk through what really happens to the Section 107 housing allowance when the mortgage goes away. What still counts as a housing expense once the note is paid. How the lesser-of-three test quietly decides everything. Why home improvements count in full the year you pay for them, and why the timing of a big renovation across two tax years can shelter thousands more than doing it all at once.

Then we get to the part most pastors have never been told. The housing allowance doesn't have to end when your paycheck does. A qualifying church plan, a 403(b)(9), can generally designate your retirement distributions as housing allowance. And one routine rollover into an IRA can end that treatment permanently.

Also covered: what does not count, the fair rental value number most pastors have never calculated, what parsonage pastors need to know, and the five steps to take before you move a dollar.

Todd Hukill is an ordained pastor, Finance Director for the Tennessee Ministry Network, and founder of Legacy Path Advisors LLC.

More at pastoralfinance.com

This show is for education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Talk with a qualified professional who knows clergy taxes and your situation before you act.

Is it okay for me to do well financially? A lot of pastors are afraid to ask that out loud. A raise comes through, a little margin finally shows up in the savings account, and instead of relief they feel a quiet guilt, like they got away with something they shouldn't have.

In Episode 4 of The Pastoral Finance Podcast, Todd Hukill takes that guilt apart. Nobody handed it to you from Scripture. Ministry culture handed it to you, and it is costing you and maybe your family too.

Scripture doesn't shame provision. It honors it. The famous warning is about the love of money, the root that pulls a heart from God, never about money itself, and never about a worker being paid for his work. Writing to Timothy about elders who lead well, Paul says the worker deserves his wages. Provision for the people who do the work is the design, not a loophole.

In this episode:

You can do well and stay humble. The two were never enemies.

More free articles and resources for pastors: https://pastoralfinance.com

Want help seeing the whole picture? Todd offers a Pastor Retirement Checkup through Legacy Path Advisors: https://www.legacypathadvisors.com/pastor-retirement-checkup

Grab the free first chapter of Todd's book: https://www.toddhukill.com/free-chapter (New book releases next week. Get the free chapter now and be first in line.)

If this helped, subscribe, leave a review, and send it to a pastor who needs it.

This show is for education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Before you act on anything, talk it through with a qualified professional who knows clergy taxes and your situation.

"The church will take care of me." Most pastors would never say it out loud, but many quietly build their future on it. In Episode 3 of The Pastoral Finance Podcast, Todd Hukill explains why your church, no matter how much it loves you, is not your retirement plan, and why realizing that early is one of the kindest things you can do for your family.

A church can love you completely and still not be your retirement plan. One is a relationship. The other is a structure. You need the structure, on purpose, with your name on it.

In this episode:

Why "we'll take care of our pastor" is a sentiment, not a funded account

How board turnover and tightening budgets quietly change that promise

Why the parsonage is a gift while you serve but builds no equity that is yours

The 403(b)(9) church plan and the feature that makes it different: distributions a credentialed minister can designate as housing allowance, excluded from federal income tax within the limits, a benefit you lose if you move that money to an ordinary IRA

The one honest question to start with: if ministry income stopped, where would yours come from?

This is stewardship, not fear. You can love your church and still build something your family can stand on.

Read the full article this episode is based on: https://www.pastoralfinance.com/blog/your-church-isnt-your-retirement-plan

More free articles and resources for pastors: https://pastoralfinance.com

Want help seeing the whole picture? Todd offers a Pastor Retirement Checkup through Legacy Path Advisors: https://www.legacypathadvisors.com/pastor-retirement-checkup

If this helped, subscribe, leave a review, and send it to a pastor who needs it.

This show is for education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Before you act on anything, talk it through with a qualified professional who knows clergy taxes and your situation.

Many pastors reach their fifties and sixties carrying a quiet fear. They gave their best years to the church, and now they wonder if they will ever be able to retire. If that is you, hear this: it is not too late.

In Episode 2 of The Pastoral Finance Podcast, Todd Hukill talks honestly about retirement for pastors. Why so many feel behind, why clergy retirement works differently than most advice assumes, and the steps you can take today no matter where you are starting from.

Todd is an ordained pastor and has spent nearly two decades as a financial advisor and as Finance Director for a statewide ministry network. This show gives pastors clear, trustworthy help with the money side of ministry. No pressure, no guilt.

In this episode:

Why so many pastors feel like retirement is out of reach

What makes clergy retirement different: the housing allowance in retirement, 403(b)(9) church plans, and the Social Security opt-out decision

Why it is not too late to start, even later in ministry

A simple next step to get clarity on where you stand

Free articles and resources for pastors: https://pastoralfinance.com

Want a clearer picture of your own retirement? Todd offers a Pastor Retirement Checkup through Legacy Path Advisors: https://www.legacypathadvisors.com/pastor-retirement-checkup

If this helped, subscribe, leave a review, and send it to a pastor who needs it.

This show is for education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Before you act on anything, talk it through with a qualified professional who knows clergy taxes and your situation.

Most pastors were never taught how to handle money. They lead people well, then quietly carry stress about their own finances. In this first episode of The Pastoral Finance Podcast, Todd Hukill walks through five money mistakes he sees pastors make again and again, and a simple next step out of each one.

Todd is an ordained pastor and has spent nearly two decades as a financial advisor and as Finance Director for a statewide ministry network. This show exists to give pastors clear, trustworthy help with money. No pressure, no guilt.

In this episode:

1. Waiting too long to ask for help

2. Living paycheck to paycheck without knowing where the money goes

3. Trying to manage your money without a system

4. Thinking you are planning just because you have a budget

5. Trying to fix everything at once

The takeaway: you are not alone, and you are not stuck. Real progress is a series of small, consistent steps. Pick one and take it this week.

Free articles and resources for pastors: https://pastoralfinance.com

If this helped, subscribe, leave a review, and send it to another pastor you care about.

This show is for education and encouragement, not personalized financial or tax advice. Before you act on anything, talk it through with a qualified professional who knows clergy taxes and your situation.