The PERSUIT Podcast

There’s a lot of excitement and some trepidation around the introduction of AI in the legal ecosystem.

One thing that everyone can agree on is that it’s imperative for legal functions across organizations - regardless of size - to start thinking about their AI strategy.

The real value comes from learning what’s working and initiating those conversations early on.

In this special webinar recap hosted by PERSUIT’s Senior Manager of Legal Advisory Maui Gevero">Maui Gevero, we discuss how AI is rapidly changing the legal landscape. Listen in as Maui leads the discussion featuring  Chris Grant">Chris Grant, David Cunningham">David Cunningham, and Sean Monahan">Sean Monahan, who share what they’ve learned about how companies should approach the AI conversation.

Join us as we discuss:

- What your firm’s overarching AI strategy should be (09:57)

- Where Generative AI would have the greatest impact (33:01)

- A good way to approach the AI conversation with outside counsel (49:52)

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The hourly bill is a relic in the age of AI.

Accelerated change is driving unparalleled efficiency in the legal industry. So it’s time for law firms to stop valuing time and effort over outcomes.

Also, it’s just a crappy way to work.

In this special webinar recap, PERSUIT’s Director of Legal Advisory, Laura Spalding">Laura Spalding, and Legal Advisory Manager, Cassieoppia Snowden">Cassieoppia Snowden, present an overview of alternative fee arrangement (AFA) models. From the benefits to practical applications, Laura and Cassieoppia unpack why law firms should adopt AFAs and put the hourly bill in a museum.   

Join us as we discuss:

- Why law firms need to move away from hourly billing (4:20)

- A breakdown of AFA families and their respective models (14:51)

- Why scoping is the biggest barrier to adopting AFAs (45:00)

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There was a time when Chris Grant">Chris Grant, Head of Legal Engagement at HSBC"> HSBC, started to second-guess his career path in law. A lack of innovative tools and collaboration to help streamline efficiencies gave him a chronic case of wanderlust as he bounced between in-house and private practice.

But now that forward-thinking tech vendors and AI technologies are finding their feet, the future that Chris was waiting for is finally here.

Chris gives an exclusive peek into the legal operations of one of the largest financial institutions in the world and how he and his team are meeting aggressive change head-on.

Join us as we discuss:

- (5:43) Why innovators aren’t exclusive to in-house or private practice

- (10:31) 3 things that need to change in the industry going forward

- (18:19) How to measure ROI for new legal initiatives

- (27:46) The power of conversation and the future of legal ops

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Legal Geek">Legal Geek

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Thanks to large language models like ChatGPT, legal ops has seen incredible accelerated change over the last nine months. And some teams are still struggling with how much they can reasonably integrate these tools into their processes.

Gregg McConnell">Gregg McConnell, Global Director of Legal Operations and Innovation at Corteva">Corteva, thinks they shouldn’t be afraid to hop on the AI train. But embracing this innovation could bring on a whole new set of challenges for the legal ops teams of the future if they’re ill-prepared.

Gregg shares his insights on AI technology’s impact on legal operations and where he looks to find the next great disruptor.   

Join us as we discuss:

- (8:18) What the ideal GC and legal ops partnership looks like

- (20:33) Corteva’s internal uses of AI, including a unique set of chatbots 

- (32:33) How AI will ultimately impact legal ops roles and workflow

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts"> Apple Podcasts, Spotify">Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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ChatGPT and similar large language models are already making a historic impact on law firms and in-house legal teams alike. So what does the future hold for day-to-day work practices in the industry, and how will we weigh the value of time going forward?

In this special episode, we recap our extraordinary webinar with Shannon Thyme Klinger">Shannon Thyme Klinger, Chief Legal Officer at Moderna">Moderna.

Jim and other members of the PERSUIT team join Shannon to address the future of AI in legal, as well as answer some burning questions from our audience.

Join us as we discuss:

- Risk management and compliance concerns with ChatGPT (10:43)

- Why AI applications will be essential for legal teams (17:51) 

- PERSUIT’s ChatGPT study on RFP proposal analysis (25:22)

- How large language models will redefine time’s value (38:44)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- The Implications of ChatGPT for Legal Services and Society">The Implications of ChatGPT for Legal Services and Society

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts"> Apple Podcasts, Spotify">Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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In early 2021, I. Stephanie Boyce">I. Stephanie Boyce made history as the first woman of color to become President of The Law Society of England and Wales">The Law Society of England and Wales (LSEW) in its 200-plus years. During her tenure, she was instrumental in pushing for new socio-economic initiatives, including the ACT (Achieving Change Together) task force. Although her time as acting President is over, her work to advance the DEI discussion by putting words into action is just beginning.

The President of the Leicester University Law Society">Leicester University Law Society and Board of Trustees member for JUSTICE">JUSTICE shares her incredible insights on in-house legal challenges and the future of DEI.

Join us as we discuss:

- Stephanie’s journey to becoming President of LSEW (3:25)

- ACT and other group-driven DEI initiatives (10:05)

- Being a steady voice in leadership during times of crises (17:42)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- I. Stephanie Boyce">I. Stephanie Boyce

- The Law Society of England and Wales">The Law Society of England and Wales

- LSEW Race for Inclusion Report">LSEW Race for Inclusion Report

- Achieving Change Together">Achieving Change Together (ACT)

- Solicitors Regulation Authority">Solicitors Regulation Authority

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We dive into some trends that have significantly impacted demand in the legal industry, and how law firms are expanding their teams faster than they’re growing demand.

Maui also shares his views on why the traditional law firm business model no longer works, and how AI and machine learning will enable GCs to eventually phase out the billable hour format and be more outcome-driven.

Maui and Jim also talk about: 

- Demand and supply: Trends that have impacted law firms [00:45]

- Why law firms are expanding faster than the market demand [3:38]

- Why the traditional law firm business model is no longer relevant [10:07]

- Why and how law firms need to think about their AI strategy [33:30]

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Maui Gevero">Maui Gevero

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts"> Apple Podcasts, Spotify">Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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Twitter v. Wachtell.  

What can we expect to happen?

And what does it mean for the future of the billable hour? 

Join PERSUIT’s CEO (and former Biglaw partner) Jim Delkousis as he shares:  

- Why the case will settle quickly

- Why Wachtell has so much at stake in the matter (besides a mere $60M)

- How the case exposes legal procurement’s “black box” and why that needs to change

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz">Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts"> Apple Podcasts, Spotify">Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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As general counsels and their legal teams sally forth into the age of AI, the lasting impact large language models could have on the industry is a hotly debated topic.  

Catheryn O’Rourke">Catheryn O’Rourke, General Counsel & Company Secretary at Reckitt"> Reckitt, is cautiously optimistic about the potential for AI to abolish “soul-crushing” work. But she keeps herself grounded by leaning on technological experts to help guide her team’s AI strategy.

Tune in to hear Catheryn’s insights into innovative tools like ChatGPT and why she thinks GCs are steadily becoming the champions of calm and confidence in the C-suite.

Join us as we discuss:

- Why getting comfortable with uncertainty is critical to the GC role (11:39)

- The ongoing evolution of GCs and their impact on the boardroom (23:46)

- Leaning on knowledgeable experts to forecast an AI strategy (37:55)

- Shifting to balance ESG efforts with business needs (43:56)

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts"> Apple Podcasts, Spotify">Spotify, or any podcast platform.

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As Elon Musk prepares to go toe-to-toe with legal giant Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz over $90 million in billed fees, this high profile case raises several questions about outcome-based legal fees and how corporate legal teams determine a fair and reasonable price in sourcing their outside counsel.   

Did Wachtell overstep in their mad scramble to bill a $60 million premium right before Musk closed his Twitter acquisition?

Did the board abdicate their duty to shareholders by not questioning Wachtell’s terms?

How will this impact how the legal industry measures the value of legal services in the future?

Jim Delkousis chimes in with his thoughts on why Musk’s suit matters to the legal industry, and not necessarily for the primary reasons that it’s making headlines.

Join us as we discuss:

- 3 big questions the lawsuit raises (3:01)

- Justifying ROI and determining market value (8:04)

- Who was looking out for Twitter’s best interests (12:56)

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz">Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Hear more stories by following Innovative Legal Leadership on Apple Podcasts"> Apple Podcasts, Spotify">Spotify, or any podcast platform.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Innovative Legal Leadership in your favorite podcast player.

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