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The Pivot Dialogues with Dave Schoof
The Pivot Dialogues with Dave Schoof episodes
- Being Touched by the World with Joel Monk | Leadership & Consciousness
What keeps us open and alive when so much in the world feels heavy?
Joel Monk and I sit down like two explorers over a cup of tea, still getting to know each other, and follow wherever the conversation wants to go.
It starts with a simple question, "How are you finding the world these days?" and it goes deep fast. What capacities do we need to navigate a time like this? And what is it calling on in us, as coaches and as humans?
Along the way, we get into what happens when meaningful work turns transactional, why it helps to look at the relationship instead of the person when something isn't working, and grief as something that tenderizes us.
Near the end, Joel shares what means more to him than any expansive state he's found in meditation.
In this episode:
- Being choiceful about what you take in during a heavy time
- What happens when meaningful work turns heavy and transactional
- Looking at the relationship when something isn't working, instead of the person
- Generosity and patience as the honest test of inner work
- Grief as something that tenderizes us
CHAPTERS
00:00 Why so many of us are tired02:04 Introducing Joel Monk06:15 How are you finding the world these days?19:20 Looking at the relationship instead of the person20:45 Grandmothers sweeping the street27:21 The capacities a time like this asks for40:01 Permeability and the hoodie bubble48:37 Blessing a bicycle50:46 Welcoming disorientation57:28 Generosity and patience as the real test1:02:06 Grief tenderizing the heart1:05:15 Being touched by the world1:07:42 CelebrateJoel Monk is the founder of Coaches Rising, which trains coaches online. Originally from the UK and now living just outside Amsterdam, he coaches entrepreneurs and executives who want their work rooted in purpose and meaning as much as in business.
🔗 CONNECT WITH JOEL:
Coaches Rising: https://www.coachesrising.com
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: https://daveschoof.com
The Pivot on Substack: https://dschoof.substack.com
Pivot Commons: Join our free community for thoughtful conversations, shared exploration, and practical ways to navigate change and uncertainty. [The Pivot Commons ]
Pivot Lab: A nine-week guided experience for people ready to move beyond old maps and develop new ways of navigating what's next. https://www.daveschoof.com/pivot-lab
Watch on YouTube: [episode link]
Joel Monk, Coaches Rising, leadership, executive coaching, coaching, grief, uncertainty, permeability, consciousness, The Pivot
1 hr 19 min - Old Alarm or Real Signal?
This shows up in leadership, but it shows up everywhere else too, especially right now, with so much shifting under all of us at once. Knowing the difference between an old alarm and something real is one of the quieter skills nobody teaches.
In this solo episode, Dave shares the story of turning down a job he wanted because a feeling inside him said no, and he read it as a verdict instead of what it actually was. Years later, sent back to the same city, he finally knew what to do with that alarm instead of obeying it. Along the way: a practice for sorting intuition from an old pattern, and why this distinction matters more now than ever, when most of us are navigating several disruptions at once instead of one.
In this episode:
- The moment a job offer turned into a whole-body no
- Sorting intuition from pattern, trauma, and an old protector part
- A practice for telling a real signal from an old alarm
- What changed the second time disorientation hit
- Why old, sequential strategies don't work when change is stacked and running in parallel
- Becoming an inner wilderness guide for your own signals
_________________
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.com
The Pivot on Substack: https://dschoof.substack.com
Pivot Commons: Join our free community for thoughtful conversations, shared exploration, and practical ways to navigate change and uncertainty. [https://www.skool.com/the-pivot-commons-4650/about?ref=99a271ec9e194ed5a83253bc91a78dc6]
Pivot Lab: A nine-week guided experience for people ready to move beyond old maps and develop new ways of navigating what's next. [ https://www.daveschoof.com/pivot-lab]
_________________________
⏱ CHAPTERS
00:00 — Introduction
02:14 — The call that changed everything
05:14 — Sorting the signal
06:33 — The protector part
07:25 — The raincoat practice
10:18 — Building an anchor on the inside
12:48 — Why this matters more now than ever
14:00 — Old strategies built for one change at a time
15:16 — Old alarm or real signal 15:35 — The inner wilderness guide
15 min - What If Nothing Is Missing? — Steve March on Innate Wholeness and Unfoldment
What if nothing is missing — and everything it takes to meet this moment is already here?
Dave sits down with Steve March, founder of Aletheia and creator of Aletheia Unfolding, for a conversation about a different way of being with ourselves and each other. Steve makes the case that we don't develop into wholeness — wholeness unfolds through us — and that every attempt to fix or improve the self tightens the very knot it hopes to release. They get into the exhaustion of continuous improvement, what it means to attune to life poetically rather than technologically, being designed to thrive in complexity, and why none of us makes sense of the world alone.
In this episode:
- Why self-improvement fails on its own terms
- Attuning to life poetically vs. technologically
- Innate wholeness — and what a newborn reveals about it
- Being designed to thrive in complexity, not just survive it
- Sense-making as something we do together, never alone
About Steve March
Steve March is the founder of Aletheia Academy LLC and the creator of Aletheia Unfolding, a post-developmental approach to human transformation. He teaches that we do not develop into wholeness; instead, wholeness unfolds through us and as us. A professional coach since 2000, Steve founded Aletheia in 2013 to work from a recognition that kept sharpening across his practice: every attempt to fix or improve the self tightens the very knot it hopes to release. In Aletheia, reality is not a machine to master but a living poem — and unfolding is not the management of change but the art of participation. Through the Aletheia Coach Training Programs, he mentors coaches, therapists, and guides who want to offer more than self-improvement to clients who are exhausted by it.To learn more about unfoldment — and how to practice it yourself and offer it to clients — visit integralunfoldment.com, where you'll find Steve's writing and his training programs for coaches, therapists, guides, and change agents.
00:00 — What if nothing is missing?
03:13 — Meeting Steve March
07:03 — The tyranny of continuous improvement
12:24 — Innate wholeness: the whole comes first
27:19 — Why self-improvement fails on its own terms
47:09 — Functional freeze, and thriving in complexity
53:59 — Why we don't do this alone
01:07:41 — What if nothing is missing? (the turn) 01:12:34 — Toward a new archetype
━━
🔗 CONNECT WITH STEVEWebsite: https://integralunfoldment.com🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.comSubstack (essays + The Pivot Newsletter)Field Notes — free five-part reflection seriesLinkedIn1 hr 24 min - Stop Trying to Figure Life Out. Start Figuring Yourself In.
What does real leadership require when the old maps stop working? In this conversation, Dave sits down with leadership expert and coach Andy Cahill to explore the fantasy that someone out there has life figured out, and the alternative Andy offers instead: learning to figure yourself in. They get into why so many of us are pulled toward crisis and quests without meaning to be, what it looks like to drop the change agenda in coaching and in relationships, and how strength and gentleness work together rather than against each other.
In this episode:
- The fantasy that someone else has it figured out
- Figuring yourself in versus figuring life out
- How leaders unconsciously create the crises they thrive in
- The change agenda, and what it costs a coach or a parent
- Holding strength and gentleness together
- The micro pause, and why real reflection happens in the moment
- Book recommendations on embodied cognition and the psychology of environment
- The Extended Mind: The Power of Thinking Outside the Brain — Annie Murphy Paul
- The Architecture of Happiness — Alain de Botton
__________Chapter Timestamps⏱ CHAPTERS
00:00 — Introduction04:57 — The fantasy of someone having it figured out05:26 — Figuring yourself in17:15 — The crisis I was creating19:20 — The change agenda33:52 — Strength and gentleness46:47 — The micro pause1:13:08 — Book recommendations[00:xx] — Closing question______
Andy Cahill is a leadership development expert who works with purpose-driven executives and entrepreneurs. Past and current clients include Microsoft, Marriott International, Alnylam Pharmaceuticals, Patagonia, lululemon athletica, The Obama Foundation, MIT, and a variety of A-to-D series funded startups in the tech and social impact sectors.
Andy earned his master’s degree in leadership from the Harvard Graduate School of Education. He is a professionally certified coach (PCC) with the International Coaching Foundation, and he is also a Level 2 certified Internal Family Systems practitioner.
He is also the host of Wonder Dome, a podcast with a global listenership that explores explores the intersections of philosophy, psychology, science, and spirituality. And his critically acclaimed science-fiction novel Gradient brings a mythic frame to the interplay of human and artificial intelligence, surfacing themes of leadership, cultural adaptation, identity formation, technological innovation, and collective resilience in the face of loss.
Website: https://wonderdome.substack.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewjcahill/🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.comThe Pivot Newsletter: https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832aSubstack: https://dschoof.substack.comPodcast: https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7sLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/1 hr 16 min - What Makes Navigation Possible
We live in a culture that rewards movement. Answer faster. Decide sooner. Keep going.
But movement and navigation aren't the same thing. You can move all day and still become increasingly lost.
What actually makes navigation possible isn't a better map, more information, or greater confidence. It's something that happens before any of that.
Its orientation. Knowing where you are before deciding where to go.
This is a solo episode recorded during an unexpected pause in the south of France — and an inquiry that's been quietly reshaping how I think about The Pivot itself.
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.com
The Pivot Newsletter: https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a
Substack: https://dschoof.substack.com
Podcast: https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/
14 min - Surviving to Flourishing — and What the Modern World Gets Wrong | with Dr. Rodney King
Dr. Rodney King has navigated some of the hardest terrain a person can cross — homelessness on the streets of Johannesburg, a health crisis that ended his career, and the disorienting question that follows when everything you've built around yourself falls away: who am I now?
He came out the other side not with a framework, but with a direction. As a philosopher, coach, and founder of Coaching Philosophia, Rodney now works with people navigating the meaning crisis — the growing gap between what modern life promises and what it actually delivers.
In this conversation, Dave and Rodney get into why the modern world has confused excelling with flourishing. Why the self-help industry is largely a repair mechanism for a broken environment. Why you can be content without being happy. And what it actually looks like to find your way back to something real.
This isn't an optimization conversation. It's a return one.
About This Episode
Dr. Rodney King is a philosopher, coach, and internationally recognized self-preservation expert. Originally from South Africa, he spent decades as a martial arts coach with programs in 15 countries — working with everyone from Tier One Special Forces operators to airline cabin crew. A health crisis in 2020 ended that chapter and opened a new one.
He now lives on the Isle of Man and works under the banner of Coaching Philosophia — bringing lived philosophy, mindfulness, and embodied practice to people navigating uncertainty, reclaiming meaning, and learning to flourish in a world that has largely forgotten how.
What We Explored
The modern world has confused excelling with flourishing. Rodney had the car, the house with the right zip code, the global travel. He'll tell you directly that wasn't the best time of his life.
The self-help industry is largely a repair mechanism for a broken environment. When the chimp is rocking back and forth in the zoo, the problem isn't the chimp. It's the zoo. We've built an unnatural environment, normalized it, and then told people to optimize their way through it.
The meaning crisis is real - and it's structural. We are running ancient hardware in an artificial environment. The evolutionary mismatch between what we're designed for and what modern life asks of us is showing up everywhere.
Happiness and contentment are not the same thing. The Western obsession with constant happiness may be doing significant damage. Contentment is something you can actually build. Happiness comes and goes.
Vulnerability as a practice — from someone who spent his career in a world where it was seen as weakness. Rodney's move from fighter to philosopher-coach carries real weight here.
Viktor Frankl on the streets of Johannesburg. The book ("Man's Search for Meaning" ) Rodney happened to pick up two weeks before becoming homeless — and the passage that kept him going.
A Line Worth Sitting With
"Everything the self-help world advocates as solutions are really just solutions to help you slot back into the mainstream and keep the machine going. And I don't think that's good for us." — Dr. Rodney King
🔗 CONNECT WITH RODNEY Search for Sophia bi-monthly calls: https://www.coachingphilosophia.org/searchforsophia Philosophy-inspired coaching: www.coachingphilosophia.org/coaching
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE Website: daveschoof.com | Newsletter: https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a
Substack: https://dschoof.substack.com | Podcast: https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s |
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/
55 min - When the Signal Breaks Down
What leadership instrument are you actually navigating with when the information environment breaks down?
In this solo episode, Dave Schoof explores one of the most disorienting challenges facing leaders right now: the gap between what the official story says and what people are actually living. Prices move week to week. Markets say one thing while experienced leaders feel something else entirely. And the default response — consume more, find better sources, read more analysis — isn't producing more clarity.
The problem isn't the data. It's the instrument.
In this episode:
- Why the most important question right now isn't "which source do I trust?" but "what am I navigating with?"
- The difference between the information you're working with and the instrument you're running it through
- What it looks like to navigate from a steadier place — not detached, not checked out, but fully present without being run by the noise
- A simple 30-second practice you can try right now
- Why developing your internal instrument is the most practical leadership move available in this moment
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE Website: daveschoof.com Newsletter: [The Pivot: From the Map to the Terrain]
🌀 THE PIVOT COMMONS [Pivot Commons link]
🧪 THE PIVOT LAB Six weeks. Small group. Starting soon. [Pivot Lab sign-up link]
16 min - After the Map: Grief, Regeneration, and a New Way to Lead | Leadership & Consciousness
What does leadership look like when the old maps stop working — and the social contracts that guided your career have dissolved?
In this second conversation with JJ Vega, leadership coach and founder of Art of Unfolding, Dave Schoof goes deeper into the territory most leadership development avoids: grief as a necessary passage, natural cycles as an organizational practice, and the embodied awareness that makes a genuinely different kind of leadership possible. Drawing on William Bridges' transition model and their shared background in somatic and consciousness-informed coaching, Dave and JJ explore what it actually takes to lead well through endings — not just survive them.
In this episode:
- Grief as a leadership skill — why it belongs in the room
- The neutral zone: what lives between endings and new beginnings
- Resilience vs. permeability — replacing the wall with a membrane
- Regenerative leadership: honoring fallow seasons, natural cycles, and rest
- Embodied awareness as the foundational leadership practice
- Rewilding the human being — and the organizations we lead
Guest: JJ Vega is a leadership coach working at the intersection of the inner world and organizational impact. Together, we cover emergence as a leadership practice, somatic intelligence, edge walkers, the disintegrating success template, and whether the Hero's Journey needs a postmodern update.
CONNECT WITH JJ VEGA
Website: artofunfolding.org
Inside Out Leadership: leadinsideout.io
Co-Creation Loft Berlin: co-creation.loft
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jj-vega/
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.com
The Pivot Newsletter: [https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a]
Substack: [https://dschoof.substack.com]
Podcast: [https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s]
LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/ ]
1 hr 17 min - When the Map Runs Out — Leading Through the Hormuz Crisis
Leadership in a crisis nobody's playbook covers — what happens when the map runs out.
Three weeks into Operation Epic Fury, the Strait of Hormuz effectively closed and crude above $100 a barrel — this episode covers what's happening inside the people running organizations through it. The financial briefings tell you what's happening to the system. I want to talk about the moment leaders reach for their map and find it doesn't cover where they are.
Through the story of a composite leader I call Isabel — a CFO navigating this crisis in real time — I explore what it actually looks like to lead from genuine orientation rather than performed certainty. The difference between managing a situation and actually meeting it. And why the most practical thing in the room right now might be the one nobody's briefing you on.
In this episode:
- Why working harder on the map is producing more noise, not more clarity
- What paralysis actually is — and why it's information, not weakness
- The 6 am practice that changed how Isabel showed up in the boardroom
- The 48-hour decision that changed the outcome
- What the unthinkable becoming real means for the next decade of leadership
⏱ CHAPTERS
00:00 — Introduction 01:30 — What the briefings aren't covering 04:00 — The moment leaders reach for the map 06:30 — Why working harder on the map stops working 09:00 — What paralysis actually is 12:00 — Meet Isabel 15:30 — Before — how she used to lead 19:00 — This week — leading differently 24:00 — The board call 27:30 — The Stefan moment 30:00 — The 48-hour decision 33:00 — What actually changed 36:00 — What this crisis is really revealing 38:30 — The question worth sitting with
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.com
The Pivot Newsletter: [https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a]
Substack: [https://dschoof.substack.com]
Podcast: [https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s]
LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/ ]
16 min - The Grass Through the Concrete — Emergence, Desire, and the New Human Blueprint | Leadership & Consciousness
Leadership coaching meets consciousness work in this wide-ranging conversation with JJ Vega — exploring what actually guides us when the old maps stop working.
What if desire, not strategy, is the real GPS for navigating complexity? That's where this conversation ended up — and neither of us saw it coming.
JJ Vega is a leadership coach working at the intersection of the inner world and organizational impact. Together, we cover emergence as a leadership practice, somatic intelligence, edge walkers, the disintegrating success template, and whether the Hero's Journey needs a postmodern update.
In this episode:
- Why emergence requires holding your experience lightly enough for something new to come through
- The body as an intelligence system that most leaders aren't using
- Edge walkers — the people at the margins, your organization is probably ignoring
- The Michelangelo principle — revealing what's already there vs. fixing what's broken
- When the old success contract stops delivering, and what the disquiet actually means
- Desire as navigation instrument — the GPS for a world without templates
- The Hero's Journey as fractal, not an arc
- Self-organized communities and the new human blueprint
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Introduction & how Dave and JJ connected
01:25 JJ introduces himself — coaching at the intersection of inner world and leadership
03:00 Expat life — Americans who chose another home
03:48 What emergence means — holding experience lightly
06:38 JJ on emergence — complexity theory and the relational field
09:22 Making emergence practical — bridging the esoteric
11:40 Invisible winds of the system — why teams repeat the same patterns
13:51 The body as intelligence — somatic coaching and why leaders aren't machines
16:14 From controlling to holding space — the identity transition
18:32 Intellectually getting it vs. embodying it
20:39 Supporting the destabilization — how transformation actually takes hold
21:11 Case study — the high-performing technician becoming a people leader
23:35 The two axes of transformation — vertical inner work and horizontal skills
25:31 From mechanic to gardener — a new orientation toward people
27:41 The field multiplier — how one leader raises the whole team
28:42 Navigating polycrisis — what JJ is finding in the field right now
29:20 Functional freeze — why people are maxed out and what to do
31:16 Crisis as threshold — the opportunity inside the breakdown
32:15 Check-in — modeling presence in real time
33:19 The coaching relationship as a leadership model
35:10 Behavior is contagious — how leaders infect their systems
38:33 Quantum physics never took off — why the relational field is still too spooky
41:23 Edge walkers — pay attention to people at the margins
43:51 The prophet not welcome in his own company
45:12 Upgrades to your sensemaking dashboard
46:25 Avoiding confirmation bias and echo chambers
47:22 The edge walker on your team right now — a concrete example 49:27 Polarity navigation — both/and leadership
51:16 Tolerating the unknown — why innovation requires accepting failed bets
53:42 White water was supposed to be temporary — why that story is over
54:03 JJ's life breakdown three years ago — the story of accelerating change
59:00 The new human — new capacities for a new world
01:00:31 Inheriting a template — and what happens when it disintegrates
01:03:58 The old contract is breaking down
01:05:23 Desire as the new GPS — what if spark is your navigation instrument
CONNECT WITH JJ VEGA
Website: artofunfolding.org
Inside Out Leadership: leadinsideout.io
Co-Creation Loft Berlin: co-creation.loft
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jj-vega/
🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE
Website: daveschoof.com
The Pivot Newsletter: [https://tinyurl.com/4vn8832a]
Substack: [https://dschoof.substack.com]
Podcast: [https://thepivotpodcast.net/?v=zm7s]
LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/daveschoof/ ]
1 hr 16 min
About The Pivot Dialogues with Dave Schoof
From the publisher's feed
Conversations exploring what it means to navigate uncertainty with wisdom, awareness, and depth. Dave Schoof speaks with leaders, thinkers, and practitioners about consciousness, leadership,…
meaning, and finding your way when the old maps no longer work.