There’s an anxiety humming beneath everything—like tinnitus that never stops. You feel it in leadership meetings where reactions explode out of proportion. In hair-trigger responses to small disruptions. In that 3am wakefulness that’s become a collective companion.

In this second conversation, Rob McNamara and I go deep into the question: How do we metabolize the poly-crisis, both personally and relationally—rather than being consumed by it?

We explore why survival mode has already lost the game, how intimacy with death becomes intimacy with life, and why relational space holds untapped generative power. We also discuss a simple practice to let life move through you, rather than against you.

This episode is especially for leaders, founders, and coaches ready to navigate complexity beyond survival—those seeking to develop the sensitivity to dance with uncertainty and access the intelligence that emerges between us.

About Rob McNamara:

Key quote: “Enlightenment isn't intimacy with all things—it’s intimacy AS all things.”

Topics include:

The grip and the open hand: how contraction blocks clarity

What it means to be radically available to life

Reclaiming presence and potency in relational space

Why doing less can create more impact in complexity

Episode Highlights:

00:02:05 – Why complexity feels so personal

00:07:43 – The grip and the open hand: contraction vs clarity

00:17:15 – Intimacy with death and the generativity of mortality

00:27:40 – The intelligence arising in relational space

00:36:12 – A somatic practice for metabolizing overwhelm

00:49:00 – Redefining leadership in complex times

00:57:30 – Becoming radically available to life

If this episode resonated, please subscribe—or forward it to someone navigating these times.

Production and Music composition:  Phil Schoof

Episode Description

In this compelling conversation, Dave speaks with Florian Irminger about his journey from high-visibility political leadership to behind-the-scenes human rights advocacy, and what he calls the "Global Realignment" we're all navigating. This episode explores how leaders can pivot from old ways of working to meet unprecedented challenges, why admitting "I don't know" is becoming essential leadership, and how human rights work is at the leading edge of what we all need to learn to thrive in this new world.

Florian Irminger is the founder of Progress & Change Action Lab, an advisory group dedicated to supporting organizations and institutions navigating complex social and political transformations. Following his tenure as Secretary-General of the Swiss Green Party, Florian made the conscious decision to step back from high-visibility political leadership to work behind the scenes, supporting others in creating meaningful change.

Inspired by Robert F. Kennedy's words that "Progress is the nice word we like to use. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies," Florian has dedicated his work to addressing what he calls the "Global Realignment"—fundamental shifts in our political, social, and human rights landscape.

Recently, Florian launched two significant initiatives: the Human Rights Compass, which brings together organizations beyond traditional branding to collaborate on key recommendations for addressing global challenges, and the Human Rights Index, launched in response to political and social media shifts.

Dave first met Florian when he was working at Human Rights House headquarters in Oslo, and later worked with him as he opened offices in Geneva and Brussels. They've maintained their connection as Florian's career and life have evolved.

00:00 - 03:00: Opening & Origins

03:00 - 07:40: The Personal Pivot

07:40 - 12:54: From Public to Behind-the-Scenes Leadership

12:54 - 21:10: The Global Realignment

21:10 - 26:48: Working with "Angels" - The NGO Challenge

26:48 - 34:02: The Compass Has Lost North

34:02 - 38:04: From Classical Music to Jazz

38:04 - 43:10: Recognizing Readiness for Change

43:10 - 46:39: The 3AM Disquiet

46:39 - 52:00: Working Between Organizations

52:00 - 1:00:14: Navigating Crisis Fatigue

1:00:14 - 1:06:32: The Lost Decade

1:06:32 - 1:11:54: Personal Navigation Strategies

1:11:54 - 1:16:31: Whispers from the Future

1:16:31 - 1:21:08: Closing Reflections

"I want to work with people that I like. So that is my new life journey - to value the family first, and value the people that I want to work with."

"Progress is the nice word we like to use. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies." - RFK

"We need to stop thinking that we have answers and learn better how to ask questions... We need to start playing jazz, because then we're improvising and listening to each other."

"I think admitting the uncertainty is, to me, an indicator of readiness to change."

"We are really equipped to deal with all of this and to come together. I just don't know who will be the 'we' and where it will happen and when."

This was a profound conversation about leadership, change, and hope in uncertain times. Perfect for anyone navigating their own pivot in work, leadership, or life.

My website:  www.daveschoof.com

Original music:  Phil Schoof

Production:  Phil Schoof

Episode 1: Pivoting into Possibility with Amah

What if the pivot you’re seeking isn’t a sharp turn — but a deep surrender into something bigger?

Welcome to the very first episode of The Pivot! I’m your host, Dave Schoof, and today we’re not doing a classic interview. Instead, I’m sitting down with the brilliant Amah for an open exploration of what it means to navigate uncertainty, embrace emergence, and trust the wisdom unfolding through us.

If you’re feeling the tremble of change and wondering how to find your way forward — you’re in exactly the right place.

In this very first episode of The Pivot, Dave invites Amah — an intuitive guide, deep listener, and explorer of human transformation — for a conversation that’s more of an unfolding than an interview.

Together, they dive into:

Timestamps:

Connect with Amah:

Follow The Pivot:

Writings from The Pivot: form the map to the territory

Paul Auston, CEO of Thirdwave, and I explored the emerging field of Psychedelicdelics and leadership as well as other aspects of my own journey to working with psychedelics. For the full episode, here is the links:  YouTube