The Pivot Playbook-rescuing businesses, redesigning midlife

Laura Kurtz Kuhns, President and CEO of Vandalia Heritage Foundation, and Susan McCarthy, founder of McCarthy Public Relations, join Salene for a conversation about career reinvention, entrepreneurship, leadership, mentorship, and finding purpose at every stage of life.

From Laura's unexpected journey from television production to Capitol Hill, economic development, and historic preservation, to Susan's career in corporate public relations and her decision to launch her own business, both women share how unexpected setbacks created opportunities they never anticipated.

An inspiring conversation about taking risks, building meaningful relationships, embracing change, redefining success in midlife, and why the most rewarding chapters of our lives may still be ahead.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with two accomplished women whose careers demonstrate the power of reinvention, resilience, and meaningful relationships.

Laura Kurtz Kuhns is President and CEO of Vandalia Heritage Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to historic preservation, community revitalization, and economic development in Northern West Virginia.

Throughout her career, Laura has overseen more than 50 redevelopment and preservation projects, worked on Capitol Hill, supported regional economic development, and helped communities rediscover their identity and potential.

Susan McCarthy is the founder of McCarthy Public Relations, established in 2004. With decades of experience in advertising, public relations, marketing, and special events, Susan helps small businesses and nonprofit organizations build visibility, strengthen their brands, and connect with their communities.

What makes their stories unique?

Both women have experienced unexpected professional changes, taken risks, and built successful careers through relationships, adaptability, and a willingness to embrace new opportunities.

Now, they're exploring ways to combine their expertise to help organizations and communities thrive.

Laura began her career in television production in Morgantown, West Virginia.

She was working in public television, producing documentaries and live entertainment programming, when a friend encouraged her to interview for a position in Washington, D.C.

At just 25, Laura agreed to the interview without seriously expecting a job offer.

But she received one.

She joined the office of Congressman Alan Mollohan, initially working in an entry-level position.

The transition wasn't easy.

Laura recalls feeling miserable at first, but she soon recognized the extraordinary opportunity in front of her.

Over time, she advanced into legislative and project development work, helping West Virginia communities and businesses navigate federal programs and pursue economic development opportunities.

Her work included:

Federal appropriations initiatives

Community infrastructure projects

Small-business advocacy

Economic development

Government contracting and technology initiatives

Laura credits Congressman Mollohan with recognizing her potential and giving her opportunities that changed the direction of her career.

The lesson: Sometimes the opportunities we never planned to pursue become the most transformative experiences of our lives.

Susan's career began after graduating from West Virginia University with a journalism degree.

She moved to Washington, D.C., where she worked in advertising and association marketing before returning to Pennsylvania.

Her professional journey included positions with:

J. Walter Thompson

National Recreation and Park Association

American Bankers Association

Air & Waste Management Association

ServiceStar/TruServ

Nemacolin Woodlands Resort

At Nemacolin, Susan spent approximately six years directing public relations and helping build the resort's reputation.

Her experience included coordinating media relations for visits involving Presidents Bill Clinton and George H. W. Bush.

But when her position ended unexpectedly, Susan faced a major decision.

Rather than returning to another corporate position, she launched her own public relations firm in 2004.

More than two decades later, McCarthy Public Relations continues to serve small businesses and nonprofit organizations.

"Embrace it, and good things happen that way."

The takeaway: Losing a job can feel like an ending, but sometimes it provides the push needed to pursue independence.

Susan reflects on the realities of entrepreneurship.

Owning a business requires:

Financial discipline

Strong client relationships

Adaptability

Consistent service

A willingness to take risks

The ability to navigate unexpected challenges

She acknowledges that running a business isn't easy.

"It's not for the faint of heart."

But she also believes that entrepreneurship has given her the freedom to build a career aligned with her strengths and interests.

Susan's ideal clients are small businesses and nonprofit organizations that need professional marketing and public relations support without hiring a full-time employee.

Her services include:

Public relations and media outreach

Social media management

Website content

Electronic newsletters

Copywriting

Special events

Marketing strategy

Susan emphasizes that small organizations can benefit from experienced outside professionals who function as an extension of their team.

The lesson: Sustainable entrepreneurship isn't simply about launching a business. It's about adapting, serving clients well, and maintaining relationships over time.

Laura discusses the work of Vandalia Heritage Foundation and the challenges of revitalizing historic communities.

Through Vandalia, she has worked on projects involving:

Historic building preservation

Downtown revitalization

Community development

Affordable housing

Redevelopment of distressed properties

Planning and technical assistance for local governments and nonprofits

Laura explains that historic preservation is often financially challenging.

Some buildings require substantial investment and may never generate conventional financial returns.

But she believes success should sometimes be measured differently.

"Sometimes just saving that building and moving on is a win."

For Laura, preserving a building can also preserve a community's identity, history, and sense of pride.

She shares the example of Piedmont, West Virginia, where community history, architecture, and a strong tradition of school athletics helped reveal what made the town special.

The takeaway: Community revitalization isn't just about buildings and financial investment. It's about restoring pride, identity, and a sense of possibility.

Laura discusses her involvement with National Community Renaissance, a nonprofit affordable housing developer.

After years of board service, she has become involved in efforts to explore expansion beyond the organization's established geographic markets.

Her work includes identifying potential development opportunities and evaluating communities that may benefit from affordable housing investment.

She also discusses the role of Opportunity Zones in encouraging investment in underserved areas.

Laura's experience illustrates how expertise developed over decades can open doors to entirely new opportunities.

Even as Vandalia's traditional property portfolio changes, she continues exploring ways to apply her knowledge to new projects.

The lesson: Reinvention doesn't always mean abandoning your experience. Sometimes it means applying that experience in a new environment.

One of the strongest themes throughout the conversation is the importance of relationships.

Laura credits Congressman Alan Mollohan with helping shape her career.

She describes how he recognized abilities she had not fully recognized in herself.

Susan similarly reflects on the relationships that helped her establish and sustain her public relations business.

Many of her earliest clients came from professional connections developed during her years at Nemacolin.

Laura and Susan also discuss how their own professional relationship developed through a shared project.

Their complementary skills and collaborative approach created a lasting friendship.

They are now exploring additional opportunities to work together.

The takeaway: Careers aren't built in isolation. Mentors, colleagues, clients, and friends often create the opportunities that change our lives.

Both guests share stories of unexpected career setbacks.

Laura describes losing an important position in her thirties despite believing she had performed exceptionally well.

At first, the experience was difficult to understand.

But the setback ultimately opened doors.

She received numerous expressions of interest from other employers and eventually chose a completely different direction: real estate development.

A development firm recruited her to open an office in North Central West Virginia.

Laura initially questioned whether she had the necessary experience.

But the firm's leadership valued her understanding of the region, business challenges, and even her experience with failure.

"That's why we want you, because you understand failure."

Susan shares a similar experience.

Her career changes—from Washington to Pittsburgh, from corporate marketing to hospitality, and eventually to entrepreneurship—often began with circumstances outside her control.

Looking back, she sees how each transition helped prepare her for the next.

The lesson: Failure and unexpected change can become valuable professional assets when we learn from them.

Susan and Salene discuss the importance of marketing for small businesses.

Many owners become so consumed with daily operations that marketing becomes an afterthought.

Susan explains that an effective marketing strategy should include multiple communication channels.

Depending on the business, those may include:

A professional website

Social media

Email newsletters

Media relations

Community events

Strategic partnerships

Consistent brand messaging

She also discusses how businesses can use milestone anniversaries to generate publicity.

For example, a longstanding business celebrating its 40th anniversary might create a special event, product, mural, or historical retrospective.

These initiatives can reconnect businesses with their communities and attract media attention.

Salene relates this to her experience representing financially distressed businesses, where marketing challenges may contribute to broader operational problems.

The takeaway: Marketing isn't a luxury reserved for successful businesses. It is part of building and maintaining a healthy business.

The conversation becomes personal as Salene, Laura, and Susan discuss the demands of midlife.

They explore the challenges of balancing:

Professional responsibilities

Aging parents

Children leaving home

Marriage and relationships

Personal interests

Financial obligations

Health and well-being

Salene shares how photography became a creative outlet during a particularly stressful period of her life.

She describes the importance of finding activities that create a sense of flow—moments when time seems to disappear because you're fully engaged in something you enjoy.

For Salene, those activities have included photography, swimming, cycling, running, and Pilates.

Susan finds joy in walking, friendships, music, and spending time with her dogs.

Laura enjoys nature, her rescue animals, art, and music.

She also reflects on wanting to return to painting and playing musical instruments.

The lesson: A fulfilling life requires more than professional achievement. We also need creativity, connection, and activities that bring us genuine joy.

When Salene asks how they define success today, both guests emphasize fulfillment rather than financial achievement.

Susan offers a simple definition:

"Success is defined by how you feel about what you're doing."

Laura agrees.

Earlier in her career, she associated success more closely with financial accomplishments.

But experience changed her perspective.

Today, she places greater value on:

Meaningful work

Helping communities

Supporting clients

Mentoring younger professionals

Personal relationships

Creative fulfillment

Having the freedom to pursue worthwhile projects

Laura also discusses the importance of continuing to work on projects that bring satisfaction rather than viewing retirement as a fixed destination.

"If you're enjoying what you're doing, you're feeling like you're contributing, it's meaningful."

The takeaway: Success evolves. What matters most at 30 may look very different at 50, 60, or beyond.

Salene shares insights from her work researching attorney well-being and professional satisfaction.

She describes three elements associated with happiness and engagement:

Connection: Feeling part of a community and developing meaningful relationships

Mastery: Having opportunities to learn, improve, and develop expertise

Autonomy: Exercising control over how you work and make decisions

She compares these principles to the elements that make certain video games engaging.

The discussion reinforces the importance of creating professional environments where people feel connected, challenged, and empowered.

Laura adds that mentoring younger people is particularly important.

She wants to pass along the guidance and opportunities that mentors provided to her.

The lesson: Professional fulfillment depends on more than compensation. People also need connection, growth, and independence.

As the conversation draws to a close, Salene asks both women what advice they would give someone standing at a crossroads.

Susan encourages listeners to embrace uncertainty and explore opportunities outside their comfort zones.

"Go for it. Go the road less traveled because you might really enjoy that."

Laura emphasizes authenticity, character, and maintaining personal standards even during difficult times.

"Stay true to yourself."

Together, their advice captures the central message of the episode.

Change is inevitable.

But the way we respond to change can create opportunities for growth, connection, and meaningful reinvention.

Laura Kurtz Kuhns

"Sometimes just saving that building and moving on is a win."

"That's why we want you, because you understand failure."

"Stay true to yourself."

"It's really not about the money."

Susan McCarthy

"Embrace it, and good things happen that way."

"It's not for the faint of heart."

"Success is defined by how you feel about what you're doing."

"Go for it. Go the road less traveled because you might really enjoy that."

Pivot she's most proud of:

Practice that keeps her grounded:

Principle that guides her decisions:

Person who changed her trajectory:

Pivot she's most proud of:

Practice that keeps her grounded:

Principle that guides her decisions:

Person who changed her trajectory:

Native West Virginian and graduate of West Virginia University

Began her career in public television and documentary production

Worked on Capitol Hill for Congressman Alan Mollohan

Has experience in real estate development and restaurant ownership

Originally studied fine arts and enjoys drawing and painting

Wants to return to playing musical instruments

Loves blues music, including Tab Benoit

Enjoys visiting historic communities

Has two rescue dogs and five rescue cats

Particularly loves Beaufort, South Carolina, and Bald Head Island

Would love to visit Ireland and Italy

Describes herself as secretly shy

Values peace of mind as one of life's greatest gifts

Graduate of West Virginia University

Worked in Washington, D.C., before returning to Pennsylvania

Founded McCarthy Public Relations in 2004

Previously directed public relations at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort

Worked in a hospital's X-ray department and assisted nurses while in college

Also worked restaurant jobs to help pay for college

Enjoys walking, music, and spending time with friends

Has three pugs named Rufus, Lucy, and Lily

Loves the Outer Banks and Sedona

Enjoys visiting San Francisco

Would love to travel to England, Ireland, and Scotland

Enjoys the Beatles

Considers friendship one of the greatest gifts in life

Laura Kurtz Kuhns is President and CEO of Vandalia Heritage Foundation, a nonprofit organization focused on community and economic development, historic preservation, and revitalization throughout Northern West Virginia.

A native West Virginian, Laura has overseen more than 50 projects involving historic redevelopment, downtown revitalization, affordable housing, and community planning.

Her career includes work in television production, congressional government service, real estate development, and nonprofit leadership.

She is also involved with National Community Renaissance and efforts to explore new opportunities for affordable housing development.

Laura is a graduate of West Virginia University and has participated in educational programs at Harvard and in Japan.

She lives near Morgantown, West Virginia, with her husband and rescue animals.

Susan McCarthy is the founder of McCarthy Public Relations, a Pennsylvania-based public relations and marketing firm established in 2004.

With decades of experience in advertising, marketing, public relations, and special events, Susan helps small businesses and nonprofit organizations increase their visibility and communicate effectively with their audiences.

Before founding her firm, she served as Director of Public Relations at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort and held positions with advertising agencies, professional associations, and corporate organizations.

A graduate of West Virginia University, Susan has also been active in community leadership and nonprofit service.

She lives in Connellsville, Pennsylvania, and enjoys spending time with friends and her three pugs.

Interested in historic preservation, community revitalization, or affordable housing development?

Learn more about Vandalia Heritage Foundation and the importance of preserving historic communities.

Need marketing or public relations support for your business or nonprofit?

Connect with McCarthy Public Relations to explore strategic marketing, communications, media outreach, and event planning.

Considering entrepreneurship or a major career change?

Remember that unexpected setbacks may create opportunities you never imagined. Stay open to new possibilities and surround yourself with people who recognize your potential.

Listen to more episodes of The Pivot Playbook:

https://salene.podbean.com/

Learn more about MazurKraemer Business Law:

https://www.mazurkraemer.com/

A conversation about courage, mentorship, entrepreneurship, community, friendship, and the freedom to define success on your own terms—at any age.

Glenn Bartifay, a Pittsburgh-area attorney and longtime solo practitioner who works with MazurKraemer Business Law, joins Salene for a candid conversation about career reinvention, entrepreneurship, financial discipline, faith, relationships, and building a meaningful life.

From an early career in coaching and exercise physiology to entering law school in his late twenties and launching his own practice in 1999, Glenn shares how his desire for independence shaped his professional journey.

A thoughtful, personal conversation about serving clients, confronting adversity, building financial security, finding gratitude in difficult experiences, and why a clear vision and strong principles matter more than simply chasing success.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Glenn Bartifay, a Pennsylvania attorney who has practiced independently since 1999 and collaborates with MazurKraemer Business Law.

Glenn's practice includes:

Consumer bankruptcy, including Chapter 13

Real estate transactions and litigation

Civil and commercial litigation

Estate matters

Business formations and corporate transactions

What makes his career distinctive?

Glenn didn't begin his professional life as an attorney.

He first worked in coaching and exercise physiology before deciding, in his late twenties, to pursue a completely different career.

After graduating from the University of Pittsburgh School of Law, he worked in a general practice firm, gaining exposure to different areas of law before developing his own practice.

He later established his own law firm and operated a real estate settlement business, Renaissance Settlements.

For Glenn, the decision to become a solo practitioner was about more than professional independence.

It was about having the freedom to make decisions, serve clients according to his principles, and create his own path through life.

"I was someone who wanted to cut my own path through life."

Glenn's first major career pivot came when he was approaching 30.

As a young man, he worked in coaching and exercise physiology.

But he eventually began considering a professional career that would offer different opportunities.

He explored several possibilities:

Engineering

Medicine

Chiropractic

Accounting

Law

He ultimately chose law because he believed his ability to construct and communicate arguments would serve him well as an attorney.

There was also a practical consideration: unlike several of the other professions he considered, law school did not require him to complete additional undergraduate coursework.

He entered law school at approximately 27 and graduated around age 30.

The lesson: Your first career doesn't have to be your final career. Sometimes the skills you've developed point toward an entirely different professional path.

After law school, Glenn joined the general practice of attorney Alan Hertzberg.

Working in a small firm gave him exposure to a broad range of legal matters.

He discovered which practice areas interested him and which did not.

Over time, he focused on bankruptcy, real estate, litigation, estates, and business-related matters.

In 1999, Glenn established his own practice.

He explains that being a solo practitioner offered something he valued deeply: independence.

He wanted to control:

The direction of his practice

The clients and matters he accepted

The services his firm provided

His professional priorities

The decisions affecting his business

Glenn acknowledges that business ownership isn't for everyone.

Running a law firm means taking responsibility not only for legal work but also for administration, employees, finances, and the long-term direction of the business.

"As an owner, you're responsible for everything."

The takeaway: Entrepreneurship offers freedom, but that freedom comes with responsibility.

One of Glenn's central themes is the importance of having a clear vision.

He believes business owners need to think beyond the immediate demands of their work.

Rather than simply managing today's problems, they should regularly consider what they want their businesses to look like in the future.

That means asking:

What is the purpose of the business?

Where should it be in five or ten years?

Are its expenses sustainable?

Is the business creating lasting financial value?

How can client service improve?

What changes would make operations more efficient?

Glenn cautions against becoming so consumed with daily responsibilities that the larger vision disappears.

"Trying to see the vision forward in the future and doing what it takes to make sure that happens."

The lesson: A business needs more than activity and revenue. It needs direction.

When Salene asks Glenn how he defines success, his answer centers on client service.

For Glenn, professional satisfaction comes from helping people solve problems they cannot resolve on their own.

He recognizes that clients generally seek legal counsel during difficult or uncertain circumstances.

His goal is to provide a favorable result at a fair price.

"I just like getting a good result for a client that's in need."

He also shares a financial philosophy that has guided his career.

Rather than relying heavily on borrowing, Glenn emphasizes:

Paying down debt

Controlling expenses

Accumulating wealth over time

Maintaining sustainable profit margins

Avoiding unnecessary financial obligations

He believes business owners can undermine their long-term financial security when too much income is consumed by debt payments.

But financial performance isn't his primary measure of professional accomplishment.

"The emphasis has always been on providing good service for the clients, and then the money just comes."

The takeaway: Financial success and meaningful service aren't mutually exclusive. For Glenn, putting clients first has been central to achieving both.

One of the most reflective moments comes when Glenn discusses what age and experience have taught him.

He acknowledges that everyone encounters disappointments, setbacks, regrets, and difficult experiences.

But he has developed a different way of looking at the past.

Rather than dwelling on what went wrong, he tries to appreciate how those experiences shaped the person he has become.

"I try to have an attitude of gratitude for all past experiences because they helped to form me into the person I am now."

Glenn believes that even painful experiences can offer valuable lessons.

Instead of allowing regret or resentment to define the future, he encourages people to recognize what adversity has taught them.

Salene relates this perspective to the challenges people face in midlife, including:

Divorce and relationship difficulties

Aging parents

Raising children

Financial pressures

Professional stress

Business setbacks

Both recognize that professional and personal challenges are often deeply interconnected.

The lesson: We cannot change the past, but we can change the meaning we assign to it.

Faith plays a central role in Glenn's understanding of purpose and happiness.

He discusses the influence of The Purpose Driven Life and his commitment to Christian principles.

For Glenn, spirituality is not something separate from his professional life.

It informs how he approaches:

Client relationships

Business decisions

Personal responsibilities

Community involvement

Marriage and family

Ethical questions

He believes living consistently with his faith creates a stronger sense of purpose.

He also emphasizes that he does not want to impose his beliefs on others.

Rather, he explains how those beliefs have shaped his own decisions and outlook.

The takeaway: Knowing what you believe and allowing those principles to guide your choices can create consistency between your professional and personal life.

Glenn and Salene explore the complicated nature of human relationships.

Glenn acknowledges that relationships can be difficult.

People are emotional, unpredictable, and sometimes disappointing.

But he also believes relationships are essential to personal growth.

Interacting with others challenges us to examine our own behavior and understand how we affect the people around us.

"Nothing really sharpens us more than being in relationships with people."

Salene discusses the importance of community, particularly for solo practitioners, divorced individuals, and people working remotely.

She reflects on how isolation can become the default when people are overwhelmed by professional or personal challenges.

Together, they discuss the importance of remaining connected rather than withdrawing entirely after painful experiences.

Glenn encourages people to learn from past relationships, practice self-examination, and remain open to future connections.

The lesson: Relationships may challenge us, but they also provide opportunities for growth, perspective, and connection.

Drawing on decades of experience representing businesses and individuals facing financial challenges, Glenn shares his philosophy of sustainable business ownership.

He believes business owners should regularly evaluate:

Whether income exceeds expenses

Whether the business carries excessive debt

Whether operations can become more efficient

Whether client service can improve

Whether the business is building long-term financial security

He cautions against assuming that selling a business at retirement will necessarily provide sufficient financial security.

Instead, he encourages owners to build financial strength while the business is operating.

He also emphasizes the importance of maintaining a service-oriented mindset.

Rather than focusing exclusively on generating revenue, business owners should consider how they can improve the quality and efficiency of their work.

Glenn discusses the value he places on visualization, intentional thinking, and defining a desired outcome before acting.

The takeaway: Strong businesses are built through financial discipline, thoughtful planning, and a commitment to delivering value.

The conversation turns to an area in which Glenn has substantial experience: Chapter 13 bankruptcy.

Glenn explains why Chapter 13 can be an important option for individuals facing financial distress.

He discusses how a repayment plan may help eligible debtors:

Address mortgage arrearages

Preserve their homes

Restructure certain secured debts

Manage qualifying tax obligations

Obtain temporary protection from collection activity

Regain financial stability

He gives the example of a homeowner who fell behind on mortgage payments after a job loss, divorce, illness, or death in the family.

If the homeowner has regained sufficient income to make ongoing payments, Chapter 13 may provide a way to address past-due amounts while preserving the existing mortgage.

Salene and Glenn also discuss why a debtor might choose Chapter 13 rather than Chapter 7, particularly when curing mortgage arrears is the primary objective.

The takeaway: Bankruptcy isn't always about liquidation. For many individuals, it can provide a structured opportunity to reorganize debt and protect important assets.

Legal note: The availability and treatment of mortgage arrears, vehicle loans, tax debts, and student loans depend on the specific facts and applicable bankruptcy law.

Glenn and Salene also discuss romantic relationships, communication, and the importance of understanding a partner's emotional needs.

Glenn shares his personal observations about differences in communication styles and why some couples struggle to resolve conflict.

He describes how he and his wife, Leslie, have used conversation prompts to explore interesting questions and deepen their connection.

They also discuss the concept of the five love languages:

Words of affirmation

Quality time

Receiving gifts

Acts of service

Physical touch

Glenn believes healthy relationships require attention to different ways of expressing affection.

He encourages couples to examine whether they are showing care in ways their partners can recognize and appreciate.

His observations about gender and communication are presented as his personal perspective rather than universal differences between men and women.

The lesson: Strong relationships benefit from intentional communication, mutual understanding, and consistent expressions of care.

As the conversation draws to a close, Salene asks Glenn what advice he would offer someone standing at a crossroads.

His answer reflects the themes running throughout the interview.

First, take time to reflect and pray.

Then, develop a clear vision of what you want before making major decisions.

Glenn's own career demonstrates the importance of intentional choices.

He decided to attend law school after pursuing another career.

He later decided to establish his own practice rather than remain an employee.

Both decisions required him to imagine a different future and act toward it.

"Pray about it and try to have their vision for what they want to do really firm before taking action."

The takeaway: Meaningful change begins with understanding your values, clarifying your goals, and making decisions consistent with both.

"I was someone who wanted to cut my own path through life."

"I just like getting a good result for a client that's in need."

"The emphasis has always been on providing good service for the clients, and then the money just comes."

"I try to have an attitude of gratitude for all past experiences because they helped to form me into the person I am now."

"Nothing really sharpens us more than being in relationships with people."

"Pray about it and try to have their vision for what they want to do really firm before taking action."

Pivot he's most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides his decisions:

Person who changed his trajectory:

Began his career in coaching and exercise physiology

Graduated from the University of Pittsburgh School of Law

Established his own law practice in 1999

Previously operated Renaissance Settlements, a real estate settlement company

Worked as a professional wrestler for several performances under the stage name Ivan Brutality

Enjoys golf, reading, and writing

Participates in Bible study with his wife, Leslie

Loves dining out and exploring restaurants

Enjoyed a cruise through the Greek islands

Especially loved visiting Oia on Santorini

Has Thailand and Sicily on his travel wish list

Treasures memories of attending Steelers games with his father

Prefers experiences and shared trips over material gifts

Enjoys the television series Dead to Me

Mentioned listening to "Shallow" by Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper

Shares his household with three cats and a dog

Glenn is a Pennsylvania attorney with decades of experience representing individuals and businesses in bankruptcy, real estate, litigation, and related legal matters.

After beginning his career in coaching and exercise physiology, he attended the University of Pittsburgh School of Law and entered private practice.

He established his own law firm in 1999 and has spent more than 25 years helping clients navigate legal and financial challenges.

Glenn also works collaboratively with MazurKraemer Business Law, including on bankruptcy, real estate, and litigation matters.

His approach to professional life emphasizes client service, independence, financial responsibility, faith, and a commitment to helping people achieve favorable outcomes during difficult circumstances.

Outside his legal practice, Glenn enjoys golf, reading, Bible study, travel, and spending time with his wife and family.

Facing financial difficulties or considering bankruptcy?

Learn more about business and consumer bankruptcy services:

https://www.mazurkraemer.com/

Thinking about starting your own business or law practice?

Take time to define your vision, evaluate your finances, and consider the responsibilities that come with ownership.

Navigating a major career or personal transition?

Reflect on what matters most, learn from your past experiences, and develop a clear vision before taking your next step.

Listen to more episodes of The Pivot Playbook:

https://salene.podbean.com/

A conversation about independence, service, financial discipline, faith, gratitude, and the importance of building a career—and a life—guided by purpose rather than circumstance.

Cori Wamsley, sweet romance author, writing coach, and founder of Aurora Corialis Publishing Services, joins Salene for an in-person episode recorded at Uptown Coffee in Mount Lebanon, Pennsylvania, to talk about career reinvention, entrepreneurship, storytelling, authenticity, and trusting your instincts.

From scientific writing for the FBI and U.S. Department of Energy to an unexpected layoff while raising two young children, Cori shares how a professional setback led her toward freelance writing, book coaching, author services, and a successful creative career.

A candid, engaging conversation about starting over, finding your voice, writing your own story, and why sometimes the best thing you can do is stop forcing what isn't working.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Cori Wamsley — sweet romance author, writing coach, and author services provider based in the Pittsburgh area.

Cori is the founder of Aurora Corialis Publishing Services, where she helps fiction and nonfiction authors develop compelling narratives and build sustainable writing careers.

Her work focuses on:

Writing coaching and manuscript development

Emotional-arc storytelling

Character-driven fiction

Editing and narrative development

Helping nonfiction authors communicate their expertise and personal stories

Guiding authors through the writing process and the business of authorship

What makes Cori's approach unique?

She combines a background in scientific and technical writing, creative fiction, editing, coaching, and small-press publishing with an understanding of the emotional connections that make stories memorable.

Her career wasn't built according to a single plan. It evolved through unexpected circumstances, curiosity, creativity, and the willingness to change direction.

Cori began her professional career with an unusual academic combination:

Bachelor's degree in biology from West Virginia University

Bachelor's degree in English

Master's degree in English

She worked as a scientific and technical writer and editor for the FBI before moving to the Pittsburgh area to work at the National Energy Technology Laboratory, part of the U.S. Department of Energy.

Her work involved translating complex scientific information into stories that ordinary people could understand.

But approximately eight years into her work at the laboratory, everything changed.

On her youngest child's first birthday, Cori learned that she was being laid off as part of a major reduction in her department.

At home with a one-year-old and a three-year-old, she suddenly faced an uncertain professional future.

Rather than returning immediately to a traditional position, she began exploring freelance writing.

That decision eventually opened the door to an entirely different career.

The lesson: Sometimes losing the career you planned creates room for the career you were meant to build.

Cori initially offered freelance writing services, including:

Press releases

Website content

Scientific and technical writing

Business communications

But something interesting kept happening at networking events.

Whenever she mentioned that she also wrote books, people wanted to know how they could write one themselves.

Entrepreneurs, speakers, and professionals began asking for help turning their expertise and experiences into books.

Cori recognized an opportunity.

She expanded into book coaching, editing, and eventually small-press publishing.

Today, her business has evolved again.

Aurora Corialis Publishing Services now focuses on author services rather than publishing books for other authors.

Cori helps writers develop stronger manuscripts, refine their storytelling, and approach their writing careers with greater clarity.

Her journey demonstrates that entrepreneurship often involves a series of pivots rather than one dramatic transformation.

Salene and Cori discuss why attorneys, entrepreneurs, coaches, speakers, and other professionals might consider becoming authors.

A book can:

Demonstrate expertise and credibility

Share valuable knowledge with potential clients

Create opportunities for speaking engagements

Help professionals develop their personal brands

Communicate experiences that may help others

Build lasting connections with readers

Cori explains that a book can give someone a tangible way to continue engaging with a speaker or professional after an event.

Rather than immediately purchasing an expensive service, an audience member can begin by reading the author's work.

The conversation also explores collaborative books, in which multiple contributors share their experiences around a common theme.

Cori describes previous projects involving women, personal challenges, and nonprofit partnerships.

The takeaway: A book can be more than a product. It can be a way to educate, connect, and create meaningful opportunities.

Salene asks practical questions about what it takes to turn a manuscript into a finished book.

Drawing on her earlier publishing experience, Cori discusses:

Book coaching

Manuscript editing

Cover design

Production

Marketing and book launches

Collaborative author projects

Hybrid and self-publishing models

The importance of defining a book's purpose

She also explains why authors need to understand their audience and participate actively in promoting their work.

Even an excellent book needs a plan for reaching readers.

Important distinction: The publishing packages, pricing, and royalty arrangements discussed in the interview reflect Cori's earlier publishing model, not necessarily her current author services offerings.

Cori has been writing fiction since childhood.

Her novels focus on relationships, emotional growth, friendship, second chances, and the choices that shape our lives.

Her writing blends humor and heartfelt storytelling, with a sweet-romance approach that avoids explicit scenes.

During the interview, she discusses Ashes and Other Inheritances, a novel inspired by a historic theater tragedy in Canonsburg, Pennsylvania.

The inspiration came from an unexpected place: a conversation with her hairstylist.

When Cori learned about the local historical event, she immediately recognized the possibilities for a compelling story.

She began imagining a character who discovers a journal connected to the tragedy and uncovers a mystery while navigating her own personal transformation.

Cori also discusses her fiction-writing process and how years of reading, studying literature, and writing novels helped her understand character development and narrative structure.

Her books include:

Exactly What It Looks Like

Something Worth Keeping, launching in November 2026

Ashes and Other Inheritances

Several earlier fiction titles

The lesson: Inspiration can come from anywhere, but transforming an idea into a meaningful story takes curiosity, practice, and persistence.

One of the most timely discussions in the episode centers on artificial intelligence, social media, and authentic communication.

Cori shares her frustration with online content that increasingly sounds the same.

She has noticed more formulaic posts, impersonal marketing, and messages focused on selling rather than building relationships.

Instead of following those trends, she has chosen to share more of her authentic personality and creative life.

Salene offers another perspective.

As a law firm owner, she uses ChatGPT to help draft social media posts, but reviews and edits the content to ensure that it reflects her own voice.

Together, they explore the balance between efficiency and authenticity.

Cori emphasizes that people want to connect with real human beings, not just polished business profiles.

"Nobody wants to talk to perfect people."

The takeaway: Technology can help us communicate, but our experiences, personalities, and relationships are what make our stories meaningful.

Cori's pivots haven't been limited to her career.

She shares how she married shortly after college and divorced several years later.

After the divorce, she recognized that remaining in her hometown of Bridgeport, West Virginia, wasn't allowing her to move forward.

She wanted new opportunities and a different environment.

Cori began exploring positions in Pittsburgh, where her best friend lived.

Interestingly, her existing employer ultimately helped facilitate a transfer when an opportunity became available.

The decision to pursue change led to a new chapter in Pittsburgh.

She later remarried and built a family with her husband and twin daughters.

For Cori, the pivotal moment wasn't knowing exactly what would happen next.

It was recognizing that her existing circumstances no longer felt right and taking steps toward something different.

The lesson: You don't always need to know the destination before deciding it's time to move.

One of the most relatable moments comes when Cori discusses a lesson she recently shared with her teenage daughter.

Her daughter was nervous about giving a classroom presentation.

Cori reminded her that most people are far less focused on scrutinizing others than we imagine.

She reflects on how much time she spent as a teenager and young adult worrying about other people's opinions.

With age and experience, she has learned to let go of some of that self-consciousness.

Salene relates this to her work in portrait photography.

When people look at a group photograph, they're often focused primarily on themselves rather than examining everyone else.

This realization can be liberating.

It allows us to:

Express ourselves more freely

Pursue creative interests

Take personal and professional risks

Stop striving for perfection

Become more comfortable being seen

Cori even mentions adding sparkles to her hair simply because she wanted to.

The takeaway: Midlife can bring the freedom to stop worrying so much about what other people think.

Cori speaks candidly about the difficulty of defining success when your business and career continue to evolve.

Financial independence, supporting her family, and pursuing her creative ambitions remain important.

But she also recognizes that traditional measures of success don't always capture the satisfaction of doing meaningful work.

Her career has included scientific writing, freelancing, publishing, coaching, and fiction.

Each stage has required her to reconsider her goals and what she wants her professional life to look like.

The conversation raises an important question:

Is success reaching a predetermined destination—or having the freedom to keep creating a life that fits who you are?

When Salene asks what advice Cori would give someone standing at a crossroads, her response is refreshingly simple.

"Take a deep breath."

Cori explains that when people are overwhelmed by a major change, it's easy to panic and attempt to force an immediate solution.

But in her experience, projects and decisions that require constant forcing often become more difficult.

The opportunities that have brought her the greatest satisfaction are the ones that genuinely interested her.

She encourages listeners to:

Avoid making major decisions in panic

Recognize when something isn't working

Explore what genuinely excites them

Remain open to unexpected opportunities

Trust their instincts

Choose authenticity over appearances

"I think that when we're pivoting, we need to really trust your gut."

Her message is that reinvention doesn't always require a perfect plan.

Sometimes it begins by paying attention to what feels right.

"Nobody wants to talk to perfect people."

"People are paying way less attention to you and nitpicking than you think they are."

"Take a deep breath."

"Everything I've ever done that I've forced has just been a pain in the butt."

"I think that when we're pivoting, we need to really trust your gut."

"If it feels like it's going to not be authentic ... I'm not going to do it."

Pivot she's most proud of:

Practice that keeps her grounded:

Principle that guides her decisions:

Person who changed her trajectory:

Native of Bridgeport, West Virginia

Graduate of West Virginia University, with degrees in biology and English

Former scientific and technical writer for the FBI and Department of Energy

Has written numerous fiction books

Loves sweet romance and character-driven storytelling

Enjoys reading, painting, crafting, singing, and playing the piano

Has performed in musical theater, including Forbidden Broadway

Won a childhood clown-drawing contest and got to ride an elephant at a circus

Enjoys British mystery television shows

Loves London, where she and her husband became engaged

Enjoys traveling and has visited Hawaii, which inspired one of her stories

Finds comfort in her weighted blanket

Prefers reading to listening to podcasts or audiobooks

Lives in Pennsylvania with her husband and twin daughters

Cori Wamsley is a sweet romance author, writing coach, and author services provider who specializes in emotional-arc storytelling and character-driven fiction.

Her novels blend humor with heartfelt relationships similar to books by Katherine Center, Emily Henry, and Abby Jimenez, but without the open-door scenes.

As the founder of Aurora Corialis Publishing Services, she helps both nonfiction and fiction authors develop clear, compelling narratives and build sustainable writing careers.

With a background in editing, coaching, and small-press publishing, Cori brings a holistic understanding of both craft and industry to her work.

She is the author of Exactly What It Looks Like and several earlier titles, as well as Something Worth Keeping, launching in November 2026.

Cori lives in Pennsylvania with her family, where she continues to write stories that invite readers into emotional clarity, hope, and connection.

Thinking about writing a book?

Explore writing coaching, manuscript development, and author services through Aurora Corialis Publishing Services:

https://www.auroracorialispublishing.com/

Discover Cori's novels and connect with her:

https://www.coriwamsley.com/

Listen to more episodes of The Pivot Playbook:

https://salene.podbean.com/

Learn more about MazurKraemer Business Law:

https://www.mazurkraemer.com/

A conversation about resilience, creativity, authenticity, starting over, and recognizing that sometimes the next chapter of your life begins when you finally trust yourself enough to turn the page.

Stephanie Lieb — shareholder at Trenam Law and newly inducted Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy — joins Salene for a deeply human conversation about ambition, grief, motherhood, leadership, and redefining success in midlife.

With more than two decades of experience in creditors’ rights and bankruptcy law, Stephanie reflects on the unexpected path that led her into insolvency practice after Hurricane Katrina — and the personal loss that later reshaped the way she approaches life itself.

What emerges is a conversation about intentionality: building a meaningful career while refusing to postpone joy, family, or fulfillment for “someday.”

A powerful episode about resilience, grace, perspective, and choosing to live fully now — not later.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene speaks with Stephanie Lieb, shareholder at Trenam Law in Tampa, Florida.

Stephanie’s practice includes:

Creditors’ rights and bankruptcy litigation

Representation of financial institutions and commercial landlords

Fiduciary work

Real estate and title litigation

Buyer-side asset acquisitions in bankruptcy

General counsel work for the Diocese of St. Petersburg

She also serves as:

Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy (2024)

Chair of the Business Law Section of the Florida Bar representing more than 6,000 attorneys

A highly respected 20-year practitioner deeply rooted in the Tampa Bay community

Stephanie never planned to become a bankruptcy lawyer.

As a law student at Tulane University, Hurricane Katrina abruptly displaced her from New Orleans and sent her back home to Tampa. Looking for available coursework, she enrolled in a bankruptcy class taught by Judge Alexander Paskay.

That decision changed the trajectory of her entire career.

She went on to:

Intern for Judge Paskay

Clerk for two bankruptcy judges

Build a long-term practice in insolvency and restructuring

“I had never even heard of bankruptcy… and I’ve never really looked back.”

One of the things Stephanie loves most about bankruptcy law is that no two cases are ever the same.

Because insolvency touches nearly every industry and legal discipline, the work constantly exposes her to new businesses, operational structures, and challenges.

From agriculture and manufacturing to aviation startups and technology companies, every engagement becomes an education.

“You learn about everything — sausage factories, tech companies, agriculture… it’s never the same twice.”

That intellectual variety is what has kept the work engaging for more than twenty years.

Stephanie intentionally built a diversified practice over time.

In addition to creditors’ rights litigation, her work includes:

Bankruptcy acquisitions

Complex litigation

Fiduciary matters

General counsel representation for the Diocese of St. Petersburg

That role, which supports Catholic schools and diocesan operations across multiple counties, has become one of the most meaningful parts of her professional life.

Her philosophy is simple:

“Doing different types of work makes you a better lawyer.”

One of Stephanie’s most memorable cases involved an elderly blind woman who had been defrauded out of her life savings.

The litigation required years of persistence and asset tracing. Although the client passed away before the matter concluded, Stephanie ultimately recovered assets for the woman’s family.

The experience left a lasting impression.

“It felt like we were doing right by her.”

Moments like that continue to shape how Stephanie thinks about advocacy, purpose, and responsibility.

Stephanie’s most defining pivot was not professional — it was personal.

Ten years ago, her father passed away suddenly at age 67.

He had done everything “correctly”:

Worked hard

Saved responsibly

Retired at 65

But he only had two years to enjoy retirement.

That loss fundamentally changed Stephanie’s relationship with time.

“I’m not going to wait to do the things I want to do.”

Since then, she has intentionally prioritized:

Meaningful travel

Family experiences

Presence over postponement

Living fully in the present

“We’re not promised tomorrow.”

Stephanie’s definition of success has evolved significantly over the years.

Today, success means:

Raising healthy, grounded children

Supporting her partners and colleagues

Serving clients well

Keeping commitments

Giving herself grace

Most importantly, she’s learned to release the pressure of excelling in every role simultaneously.

“Some days I’m a great mom. Some days I’m a great lawyer. They’re not always the same day — and that’s okay.”

It’s one of the most honest and resonant moments of the episode.

Stephanie also shares grounded advice for businesses and individuals facing financial distress.

Her perspective:

Bankruptcy can create structure

It can provide breathing room

But it does not magically erase underlying problems

She encourages clients to stay realistic, solution-oriented, and proactive.

“Bankruptcy is a place to consolidate problems — not eliminate them.”

Stephanie’s leadership extends well beyond her practice.

At Trenam Law, she values the firm’s deep investment in the Tampa Bay business community — supporting local companies, entrepreneurship, and economic growth.

Her broader leadership includes:

Chairing the Florida Bar Business Law Section

National bankruptcy leadership roles

Mentorship of younger attorneys

Service-oriented professional leadership

Community, for Stephanie, is not separate from professional success — it is part of it.

At the center of Stephanie’s philosophy is intentionality.

She believes in:

Being fully present

Investing deeply in relationships

Pursuing meaningful work

Experiencing joy now, not later

Outside of work, balance comes through:

Yoga and power flow classes

International travel

Supporting her children’s activities and sports

“I love culture shock. I love figuring things out.”

That curiosity and openness to experience continues to shape both her career and her life.

“I fell into bankruptcy — and never looked back.”

“We’re not promised tomorrow.”

“Don’t wait to do the things you want to do.”

“Bankruptcy consolidates problems — it doesn’t eliminate them.”

“Some days I’m a great mom. Some days I’m a great lawyer.”

“Would I be proud of this decision?”

Motherhood.

Yoga — especially hot yoga and power flow.

“Would I be proud of this decision?”

Judge Roberta Colton — mentor and guiding influence.

Half Peruvian and fluent in Spanish

Loves Latin music, including Danza Kuduro

Passionate international traveler

Favorite unexpected destination: Ecuador

Upcoming destination: Japan

Enjoys sci-fi and fantasy series, including Stranger Things

Proud “professional spectator” of her children’s sports and activities

Connect with Stephanie Lieb through Trenam Law.

Follow her work and leadership through:

The Florida Bar Business Law Section

The American College of Bankruptcy

If you’re a business owner, creditor, or professional navigating financial distress:

Be proactive

Be realistic

Seek experienced guidance early

A deeply human conversation about grief, growth, ambition, leadership, and the decision to fully live now — not someday.

Andy Sykes, Certified Elder Law Attorney and founder of a Pittsburgh-based estate planning and elder law firm, joins Salene in a rare in-person episode to talk about reinvention, legacy, mentorship, and building a practice that serves families at their most vulnerable moments.

From federal clerkship to litigation to a transformative pivot into Medicaid and estate planning, Andy shares how recognizing a knowledge gap changed his career — and gave him back control of his life.

A thoughtful, grounded conversation about facing adversity, protecting families, mentoring the next generation, and why “always do the right thing” is more than just a slogan.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Andy Sykes — Certified Elder Law Attorney practicing in Pennsylvania, with offices in Pittsburgh (Mount Lebanon) and King of Prussia.

Andy focuses on:

Customized estate planning

Medicaid planning

Asset protection

Estate administration

Special needs planning

Strategic tax optimization

What makes his practice unique?

He began from the crisis side — Medicaid litigation — and saw firsthand how poorly drafted estate documents created devastating consequences for families.

“If people have good knowledge and good advice, they get a much better result than they do without it.”

That realization reshaped his entire career.

⭐ In this episode, we cover:

Andy began his career in litigation after clerking for a federal judge and working at a boutique litigation firm where he was handed real cases from day one.

But around the year 2000, a Medicaid case changed everything.

A client had improperly sold her mother’s house while her mother was on Medicaid — costing her over $100,000.

Andy discovered that with proper planning and understanding of Medicaid rules, the outcome could have been dramatically different.

That moment revealed:

A massive knowledge gap

An underserved population

An opportunity to help families proactively

He pivoted fully from litigation to Medicaid and estate planning.

“People don’t understand these rules. If they have good advice, they get a much better result.”

The pivot wasn’t just professional — it was personal.

At the time, Andy’s children were young.

Litigation meant:

Court-driven schedules

Trial deadlines

Stress that spilled into family life

Planning work meant:

Greater control of his calendar

More evenings at home

A healthier work-life balance

“When your practice is planning-focused, you can control your calendar much more.”

Andy’s ideal clients are:

Middle-class families

Individuals approaching or in retirement

Blended families

Families with special needs children

Clients open to proactive, innovative planning

His work emphasizes:

Asset protection strategies

Medicaid eligibility optimization

IRA tax deferral strategies

Multi-generational trust planning

“We optimize and customize estate plans far more than most firms do.”

An older couple found love later in life — but had concerns about:

Protecting assets for their respective children

Nursing home risks

Blended family complications

Through a prenuptial agreement and asset protection trust planning, Andy helped them:

Marry securely

Preserve assets for their children

Protect against Medicaid exposure

Years later, they’re still together.

“It’s great to make it possible for people to feel secure enough to build a life together.”

When Andy began, he sometimes felt imposter syndrome advising older clients.

Now, with grown children and personal estate planning experience — including special needs planning — he brings lived experience into client conversations.

“I can relate now in a way I couldn’t before.”

Midlife has shifted his focus from annual profitability to long-term legacy.

For Andy, success today means:

Training the next generation

Bringing on a summer associate

Passing down a thriving practice

“It’s more about legacy now than just this calendar year.”

He emphasizes mentorship:

“You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Find a mentor.”

One of the most thoughtful parts of the conversation centered on adversity.

Andy’s perspective:

When facing professional or personal setbacks, don’t avoid them.

Turn toward them.

He referenced The Sixth Sense as metaphor — what terrifies us may be pointing toward something we need to confront and understand.

“If you can face adversity and learn from it, it becomes a moment of growth.”

In elder law, identifying the true client is critical.

Often an adult child brings in a parent — but the parent is the client.

This requires:

Clear ethical boundaries

Difficult conversations

Protecting vulnerable individuals

Courage to say “no” when capacity is lacking

“You always have to know who the real client is.”

Andy builds community through:

Live educational seminars

Local referrals

Community visibility

Church involvement

Supporting local music

Hosting estate planning workshops

He also shared an unexpected passion:

Studying improv before the pandemic

Improv, he says, improved his listening skills and presence with clients.

“If people have good advice, they get a much better result.”

“When your practice is planning-focused, you can control your calendar.”

“You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Find a mentor.”

“If you can face adversity and learn from it, it becomes growth.”

“You always have to know who the real client is.”

“Always do the right thing.”

Pivot he’s most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides him:

Person who changed his trajectory:

Certified Elder Law Attorney

Former federal judicial clerk

Studied improv pre-pandemic

Avid audiobook listener

Favorite show: The Crown

Favorite recent song: “Constant Companion” by Juliana Hatfield

Favorite travel destination: Madrid

Has a wild morning dove named Daisy who visits his deck

Learn more about estate planning and elder law services in Pennsylvania:

Attend a live estate planning seminar in Pittsburgh or King of Prussia.

If you have aging parents — don’t wait until crisis. Plan proactively.

A conversation about security, stewardship, facing hard truths, and building a life — and practice — designed around legacy rather than litigation.

J. Scott Bovitz — senior partner at Bovitz & Spitzer in Los Angeles, Board-Certified in Business Bankruptcy Law, Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy, past Chair of the American Board of Certification, adjunct professor, media commentator, ham radio operator, world traveler — and composer of 786 original songs — joins Salene for a wide-ranging conversation about mastery, longevity, leadership, and building a life that blends law, music, teaching, and community.

From launching his own firm in 1991 with his spouse (and still practicing 30+ years later) to recording lawyer-only bands across state lines, teaching generations of law students, and serving in nearly every major bankruptcy organization, Scott shares what it means to stay curious, keep rowing, and never step off your path.

A thoughtful, funny, and deeply grounded conversation about professional reinvention, civic leadership, creativity, and defining success on your own terms.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with J. Scott Bovitz — bankruptcy litigator, educator, organization builder, media spokesperson, and musician.

Scott practices in the Central District of California, representing creditors, landlords, trustees, and distressed businesses in complex bankruptcy litigation. He is Board-Certified in Business Bankruptcy Law (ABC), a Certified Specialist by the State Bar of California, a Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy, and a past president and chair of numerous professional organizations.

But behind the credentials is a renaissance professional:

Founder of BankruptcyDog.com (a long-running bankruptcy community calendar)

Adjunct professor at Loyola, UNLV, and other law schools

Former member of California’s Committee of Bar Examiners

Frequent media commentator (including national coverage of the Dodgers bankruptcy)

Composer of 786 songs and member of two all-lawyer bands

Photographer who has traveled to 82 countries

⭐ In this episode, we cover:

Clerking for his bankruptcy professor before even getting bar results

Being asked — on short notice — to teach bankruptcy at Loyola

Realizing that teaching creates both mastery and opportunity

Choosing a niche and digging deep

“Find a field and learn everything you possibly can. The law is infinite.”

Leaving a large firm in Century City in 1991 to launch a two-lawyer firm with his spouse.

Negotiating his exit

Managing overhead carefully

Building a litigation-focused bankruptcy practice

Choosing scope intentionally (knowing what not to take)

“When you’re on your own, you decide the scope of your practice.”

Thirty-plus years later, the firm still thrives.

Scott estimates that he spends roughly one-third of his time on non-billable leadership and educational work:

Writing and lecturing (hundreds of programs delivered)

Serving on the State Bar’s Legal Specialization Board

Writing certification exams

Serving on the Committee of Bar Examiners

Leadership in ABC, ABI, local bankruptcy forums

His philosophy:

“Don’t just belong. Participate.”

From answering live call-in radio questions to appearing on CBS 14 times during the Dodgers bankruptcy, Scott shares how showing up publicly builds credibility — and how even his mother finally believed he was a “real lawyer” after seeing him on television.

He’s also fielded complex overnight reporter calls (including on 23andMe bankruptcy privacy issues) — often from airports.

It started in 8th grade — writing a song for a girl.

Years later, mid-career, he took UCLA extension classes in recording technology. That turned into:

A home studio in Los Angeles

Two all-lawyer bands

Remote collaboration across cities

Serving as recording engineer

ABA licensing his music for podcast intros

He writes constantly — and rarely declares a song “done.”

“No song is ever finished.”

Music, he says, keeps him grounded and in flow.

Scott describes the bankruptcy community as surprisingly small — perhaps 300 regular national players.

Whether at ABI, ABC, NCBJ, or local forums, he values walking into a room knowing he has colleagues — and friends.

He also finds connection in unexpected places:

Ham radio (licensed since 1969)

The Los Angeles Lawyers Philharmonic

A lawyer movie club (“Monday Night Lawyer Movie Club — unless it’s on Tuesday”)

BankruptcyDog.com, which he updates daily

“These people who are sometimes your adversaries are your friends.”

Find a mentor you want to be like.

Choose a field and master it.

Go to programs year-round — not just to meet CLE requirements.

Volunteer and say yes.

Never stop sharpening your sword.

“You never master the law. It’s infinite.”

Clients often arrive scared, overly optimistic, or poorly informed.

Scott emphasizes:

Listen first.

Assess whether bankruptcy truly helps.

Explain risks and costs clearly.

Be honest when the answer is no.

“Bankruptcy isn’t magic.”

Scott recently turned 70 and has no plans to slow down.

For him, success means:

Financial security

A stable marriage (married since 1984)

The freedom to create

Being able to walk into a national conference and know people

Continuing to grow

“You never get off your path.”

“Don’t just belong. Participate.”

“When you’re on your own, you decide the scope of your practice.”

“The law is infinite.”

“You never master it.”

“Bankruptcy isn’t magic.”

“You never stop rowing the canoe.”

“Golden rule and common sense — that guides my decisions.”

Pivot he’s most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides him:

People who shaped his trajectory:

Professor David Luna (first employer)

Frank Riall (who asked him to teach)

Michael Dempsey (litigation role model)

Candice Carlyon (ABC leadership invitation)

Learn more about the American Board of Certification:

Explore BankruptcyDog.com (Southern California bankruptcy events calendar):

Connect with the American College of Bankruptcy:

Learn more about the American Bankruptcy Institute:

Barry Gogel, Managing Member of the Baltimore/Towson office of Rifkin Weiner Livingston, joins Salene for a deeply human conversation about complex business litigation, government procurement battles, service-driven leadership, and the personal pivots that define a meaningful life.

A University of Maryland Carey School of Law graduate, former math teacher, adjunct professor, mentor, and — yes — former Baltimore Orioles mascot, Barry shares how the biggest shift in his life wasn’t about career advancement… it was about returning to education and service.

A wise, funny, and unexpectedly profound conversation about humility, aspiration, community, and why the answer is always no if you don’t ask.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Barry Gogel — complex business litigator, procurement attorney, adjunct professor, mentor, and community leader based in Baltimore, Maryland.

Barry practices with Rifkin Weiner Livingston, a mid-sized Maryland business law firm with a strong government relations presence. His work includes:

Complex commercial litigation

Government contracts and procurement bid protests

Contract claims against state agencies

Bankruptcy-related litigation and professional malpractice disputes

High-profile regional disputes (including major sports and development matters)

He describes his practice simply:

“When the stakes are big, we step in.”

But behind the litigation victories is a teacher at heart.

⭐ In this episode, we cover:

Barry began his professional life as a mathematics major who always intended to teach.

Inspired by high school math teachers

Began his career in education

Realized the cyclical nature of teaching left him restless

Pivoted to law for intellectual challenge and financial stability

Yet decades later, he returned to teaching — this time at the University of Maryland School of Law.

Today he teaches:

Negotiations

Coaches the ADR team

Sports and the Law

“My goal is to educate and entertain — not necessarily in that order.”

From 1990–1994, Barry served as a Baltimore Orioles mascot.

Yes — fully costumed.

“What makes a good mascot? The heart of a three-year-old.”

He describes it as:

“The most fun you can have fully dressed.”

The experience shaped his understanding of performance, energy, and connection — skills that translate directly to the courtroom and the classroom.

Barry’s legal niche includes state procurement disputes — a small bar of lawyers who challenge arbitrary or unlawful government contract decisions.

Ideal clients:

Businesses with major state contracts

Companies unfairly disfavored in competitive bidding

Contractors willing to fight when the stakes justify it

He also handles litigation that emerges from bankruptcies — especially professional malpractice actions pursued by creditors’ committees.

“There’s no problem so big we can’t handle — so long as you’re not kicked out of court.”

Two weeks into practice, Barry took on a pro bono civil rights case through the ACLU involving racial discrimination at a jewelry store.

Investigated discriminatory appointment practices

Litigated aggressively

Settled after key motions

It consumed half of his first year’s billable time — and cemented his identity as an advocate.

The biggest pivot in Barry’s life wasn’t professional — it was personal.

A lunch with former law school dean Don Gifford changed everything.

Barry realized he had drifted too far from education — the space that originally inspired him.

He volunteered to coach the law school’s negotiations team.

He said yes.

That decision grew into:

A formal academic negotiations course

A thriving ADR community

A mentorship network of former students

A long-term legacy of training young lawyers

“It’s great to be happy. It’s even better if someone else is happy because of you.”

Barry’s involvement with Maryland Youth in the Law (MYLAW) became another defining chapter.

The program:

Places Baltimore City students in paid legal internships

Closes opportunity gaps

Changes career trajectories

He describes asking students to reflect on a moment they were truly selfless — expecting nothing in return.

“You should be selfish in seeking out those selfless moments. That’s the best medicine you can give yourself.”

One of Barry’s most memorable frameworks:

“The key to happiness is low expectations.

He teaches clients — and students — to:

Pursue boldly

Accept outcomes

Not let failure define them

“The answer is no if you don’t ask.”

Don’t be your own lawyer.

Seek outside judgment early.

Don’t wait until it’s too late.

Temper expectations in litigation.

“Call me before it’s too late.”

For Barry, leadership means:

Empathy without absorption

Listening without ego

Telling hard truths clearly

Separating your client’s problem from your identity

“You can’t be afraid of the hard truth.”

“The heart of a three-year-old.”

“The answer is no if you don’t ask.”

“Be selfish in your selflessness.”

“The key to happiness is low expectations. The key to success is high aspirations. The key to life is understanding the difference.”

“Don’t be your own lawyer.”

“There’s no problem so big we can’t handle — so long as you’re not kicked out of court.”

Pivot he’s most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides him:

People who changed his trajectory:

High school math teachers

Don Gifford (law school dean)

John Murphy (mentor)

Arnold Wiener (father-in-law and legal inspiration)

His wife, Debra

His children

Former Baltimore Orioles mascot

Mathematics major

Adjunct professor of negotiations & sports law

Owns a Hobie Cat sailboat

Favorite show: Ted Lasso

Favorite music: Jimmy Buffett, Jim Croce, John Denver

Favorite podcast: Lost Ballparks

Two “crazy” chihuahuas named Rice and Beans

Learn more about Maryland Youth in the Law (MYLAW):

Explore Rifkin Weiner Livingston:

University of Maryland Francis King Carey School of Law:

Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of Columbia and recipient of the 2025 American Bar Association Business Bankruptcy Committee’s Kathryn R. Heidt Memorial Award, joins Salene to talk about bravery, authenticity, public service, and the pivots that shape a life in law.   She is Board-Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy by the American Board of Certification.

From being bullied in a tiny Oregon town to becoming one of the most recognizable voices in bankruptcy education (including the wildly popular “Bad Boys of Bankruptcy” podcast), Judge Gunn shares candidly about her journey: leaving BigLaw, taking a pay cut for purpose, balancing motherhood with the bench, and finding her voice as a leader.

A powerful, warm, and deeply human conversation about resilience, reinvention, and why the scariest decisions are sometimes the truest.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of Columbia, marathon runner, mother of two, scholar, podcast creator, and the 2025 recipient of the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee’s Kathryn R. Heidt Memorial Award.

Judge Gunn is known for her intellect, her service, and her creativity — including launching the ABA’s hit series “The Bad Boys of Bankruptcy,” now the most-listened-to podcast in the entire Business Law Section.

But behind the accolades is a story of courage, reinvention, and authenticity.

Growing up as the academically gifted “outsider”

Being bullied and persevering

Discovering bankruptcy law through Professor Ingrid Hillinger

Working BigLaw → regional firm → Virginia AG’s office → federal judge

Leaving private practice, taking a massive pay cut, and betting on purpose over prestige — a scary leap that ultimately led to national recognition and her judgeship.

How running keeps her sane, what she listens to, and why Berlin and Sydney marathons mark chapters in her personal story.

How it started

The wildest stories (Seattle jewel-smuggling fugitives, Dunkin’ Donuts Ponzi schemes, hidden jewelry walls!)

How storytelling makes bankruptcy accessible and engaging

Authenticity vs. “playing the role”

The “mom finger” for mansplainers

Being the only woman in the courtroom

Raising confident kids while doing demanding work

Distressed business owners: “Do NOT wait until it’s an 8, 9, or 10 crisis. Come in at a 4 or 5—before it’s too late.”

Creditors: “Open your mail. Participate. The squeaky wheel often gets the grease.”

Pivot she’s most proud of: Leaving private practice + applying for the bench

Practice that keeps her grounded: Being a mom

Principle that guides her: Treat people the way you want to be treated

Person who changed her trajectory: Her mentor, Roy Terry — and her mother

“Sometimes the best decision is the scariest decision. Be brave.”

“I wasn’t successful until I stopped trying to be who I thought a lawyer should be — and just became myself.”

“If they walked in six months earlier, we could have saved it.”

“The bankruptcy code protects the people who show up.”

“Treat others the way you want to be treated — it’s not complicated.”

“This is probably my last job ever, and I love it.”

Learn more about the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/about/committees/business-bankruptcy/subcommittees/

Listen to Bad Boys of Bankruptcy podcast: 

Connect with Judge Gunn’s work through NCBJ, ABC, ABI, and the Federal Bar Association

In this heartfelt Halloween episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer sits down with David Prelle Eron, founder of Prelle Eron & Bailey, P.A. in Wichita, Kansas.

A business bankruptcy attorney, former U.S. Trustee, and board-certified specialist, David shares his remarkable journey from Los Angeles litigator to Kansas farm bankruptcy expert — and how faith, humility, and perspective guide every pivot.

They discuss the power of gratitude, the beauty of second chances, and why “it’s only money” might be the most freeing mantra of all.

Guest: David Prelle Eron

Founding his Kansas law firm after leaving the U.S. Trustee’s Office — and the courage to create a practice that reflects his values

How Chapter 12 “farm bankruptcies” became his specialty — representing over 50% of all Chapter 12 debtors in Kansas

Why bankruptcy is the most compassionate area of law, helping people rebuild dignity and stability

His mentor’s timeless advice: “Debtors are debtors for a reason.”

Serving on the ABC Board of Directors and launching the Membership Committee to connect certified specialists nationwide

Why running a law firm means mastering both law and business — “Running a firm is not practicing law.”

His personal pivots: from government to entrepreneurship, from lawyer to leader, and from parent to grandparent

Perspective is everything. “99 times out of 100, whatever you’re dealing with isn’t the end of the universe.”

Bankruptcy is grace in action. It’s a safety net that lets families and businesses begin again.

Leadership means service. Whether through board work or community faith projects, success is about contribution.

Running a business is its own profession. Master your craft — but also learn to manage, lead, and plan.

Faith and gratitude fuel longevity. Ground yourself in purpose beyond profits.

“It’s only money. You can rebuild that. What matters is your health, your faith, and your family.”

Law School: University of Iowa

Undergrad: Iowa State University

Favorite Show: Seinfeld

Bucket List Trip: Italy — Rome, Florence & Venice with his wife

Best Gift: A heartfelt two-page text from his daughter on his birthday

Recent Trip: Ireland, for the Iowa State vs. Kansas State football game 🇮🇪

Favorite Quote: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

Hidden Talent: Scuba certified — last dove Beaver Lake, Arkansas

Faith & Service: Active in his Catholic parish; performs in annual church musicals raising $150,000+ for charity

Family: 7 children, 5 grandkids (“grandies”), and 2 cats 🐈‍⬛

➡️ The Pivot Playbook with Salene Mazur Kraemer

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In this inspiring episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer talks with Sari Placona, partner at https://www.msbnj.com/ 

Career evolution from paralegal to partner, discovering a passion for restructuring law

Leadership in IWIRC New Jersey and the impact of women supporting women

Winning the IWIRC Rising Star Award and mentoring other young professionals

Experience in complex Chapter 11 cases — including Rite Aid, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Mercedes-Benz

How bankruptcy can be a path to renewal, not failure

The bold personal pivot of leaving a toxic friendship group and choosing peace

Sari’s fitness and mindset transformation, building confidence through discipline

Pivoting isn’t failure — it’s freedom. Sometimes leaving what no longer serves you opens new doors.

Act early. In both business and personal life, clarity comes through decisive action.

Strength is contagious. When you show up strong, others do too.

Relationships matter. Nurture the ones that support your growth and peace.

“You should fill the cups that fill your cup.”

Law School: Rutgers Law

Undergrad: Rutgers University (New Brunswick — Communications & Sociology)

Favorite Shows: The Morning Show (Apple TV), Love Is Blind (Netflix)

Vacation: Greece with family

Best Gift: Whitney Houston memorabilia (and her parents’ unwavering support)

Music: Currently on a Taylor Swift kick 🎶

Workout Routine: HIIT and Warrior Sculpt Yoga

Favorite City: Chicago

Fun Fact: Has a twin brother, Scott, in sports marketing

Pet: None (but grew up with a family dog)

➡️ The Pivot Playbook with Salene Mazur Kraemer

#ThePivotPlaybook #MazurKraemer #Podcast #IWIRC #WomenInLaw #Resilience #Leadership #FreshStarts #Reinvention #TurnaroundStories #LawyersOfLinkedIn