Stephanie Lieb — shareholder at Trenam Law and newly inducted Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy — joins Salene for a deeply human conversation about ambition, grief, motherhood, leadership, and redefining success in midlife.

With more than two decades of experience in creditors’ rights and bankruptcy law, Stephanie reflects on the unexpected path that led her into insolvency practice after Hurricane Katrina — and the personal loss that later reshaped the way she approaches life itself.

What emerges is a conversation about intentionality: building a meaningful career while refusing to postpone joy, family, or fulfillment for “someday.”

A powerful episode about resilience, grace, perspective, and choosing to live fully now — not later.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene speaks with Stephanie Lieb, shareholder at Trenam Law in Tampa, Florida.

Stephanie’s practice includes:

Creditors’ rights and bankruptcy litigation

Representation of financial institutions and commercial landlords

Fiduciary work

Real estate and title litigation

Buyer-side asset acquisitions in bankruptcy

General counsel work for the Diocese of St. Petersburg

She also serves as:

Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy (2024)

Chair of the Business Law Section of the Florida Bar representing more than 6,000 attorneys

A highly respected 20-year practitioner deeply rooted in the Tampa Bay community

Stephanie never planned to become a bankruptcy lawyer.

As a law student at Tulane University, Hurricane Katrina abruptly displaced her from New Orleans and sent her back home to Tampa. Looking for available coursework, she enrolled in a bankruptcy class taught by Judge Alexander Paskay.

That decision changed the trajectory of her entire career.

She went on to:

Intern for Judge Paskay

Clerk for two bankruptcy judges

Build a long-term practice in insolvency and restructuring

“I had never even heard of bankruptcy… and I’ve never really looked back.”

One of the things Stephanie loves most about bankruptcy law is that no two cases are ever the same.

Because insolvency touches nearly every industry and legal discipline, the work constantly exposes her to new businesses, operational structures, and challenges.

From agriculture and manufacturing to aviation startups and technology companies, every engagement becomes an education.

“You learn about everything — sausage factories, tech companies, agriculture… it’s never the same twice.”

That intellectual variety is what has kept the work engaging for more than twenty years.

Stephanie intentionally built a diversified practice over time.

In addition to creditors’ rights litigation, her work includes:

Bankruptcy acquisitions

Complex litigation

Fiduciary matters

General counsel representation for the Diocese of St. Petersburg

That role, which supports Catholic schools and diocesan operations across multiple counties, has become one of the most meaningful parts of her professional life.

Her philosophy is simple:

“Doing different types of work makes you a better lawyer.”

One of Stephanie’s most memorable cases involved an elderly blind woman who had been defrauded out of her life savings.

The litigation required years of persistence and asset tracing. Although the client passed away before the matter concluded, Stephanie ultimately recovered assets for the woman’s family.

The experience left a lasting impression.

“It felt like we were doing right by her.”

Moments like that continue to shape how Stephanie thinks about advocacy, purpose, and responsibility.

Stephanie’s most defining pivot was not professional — it was personal.

Ten years ago, her father passed away suddenly at age 67.

He had done everything “correctly”:

Worked hard

Saved responsibly

Retired at 65

But he only had two years to enjoy retirement.

That loss fundamentally changed Stephanie’s relationship with time.

“I’m not going to wait to do the things I want to do.”

Since then, she has intentionally prioritized:

Meaningful travel

Family experiences

Presence over postponement

Living fully in the present

“We’re not promised tomorrow.”

Stephanie’s definition of success has evolved significantly over the years.

Today, success means:

Raising healthy, grounded children

Supporting her partners and colleagues

Serving clients well

Keeping commitments

Giving herself grace

Most importantly, she’s learned to release the pressure of excelling in every role simultaneously.

“Some days I’m a great mom. Some days I’m a great lawyer. They’re not always the same day — and that’s okay.”

It’s one of the most honest and resonant moments of the episode.

Stephanie also shares grounded advice for businesses and individuals facing financial distress.

Her perspective:

Bankruptcy can create structure

It can provide breathing room

But it does not magically erase underlying problems

She encourages clients to stay realistic, solution-oriented, and proactive.

“Bankruptcy is a place to consolidate problems — not eliminate them.”

Stephanie’s leadership extends well beyond her practice.

At Trenam Law, she values the firm’s deep investment in the Tampa Bay business community — supporting local companies, entrepreneurship, and economic growth.

Her broader leadership includes:

Chairing the Florida Bar Business Law Section

National bankruptcy leadership roles

Mentorship of younger attorneys

Service-oriented professional leadership

Community, for Stephanie, is not separate from professional success — it is part of it.

At the center of Stephanie’s philosophy is intentionality.

She believes in:

Being fully present

Investing deeply in relationships

Pursuing meaningful work

Experiencing joy now, not later

Outside of work, balance comes through:

Yoga and power flow classes

International travel

Supporting her children’s activities and sports

“I love culture shock. I love figuring things out.”

That curiosity and openness to experience continues to shape both her career and her life.

“I fell into bankruptcy — and never looked back.”

“We’re not promised tomorrow.”

“Don’t wait to do the things you want to do.”

“Bankruptcy consolidates problems — it doesn’t eliminate them.”

“Some days I’m a great mom. Some days I’m a great lawyer.”

“Would I be proud of this decision?”

Motherhood.

Yoga — especially hot yoga and power flow.

“Would I be proud of this decision?”

Judge Roberta Colton — mentor and guiding influence.

Half Peruvian and fluent in Spanish

Loves Latin music, including Danza Kuduro

Passionate international traveler

Favorite unexpected destination: Ecuador

Upcoming destination: Japan

Enjoys sci-fi and fantasy series, including Stranger Things

Proud “professional spectator” of her children’s sports and activities

Connect with Stephanie Lieb through Trenam Law.

Follow her work and leadership through:

The Florida Bar Business Law Section

The American College of Bankruptcy

If you’re a business owner, creditor, or professional navigating financial distress:

Be proactive

Be realistic

Seek experienced guidance early

A deeply human conversation about grief, growth, ambition, leadership, and the decision to fully live now — not someday.

Andy Sykes, Certified Elder Law Attorney and founder of a Pittsburgh-based estate planning and elder law firm, joins Salene in a rare in-person episode to talk about reinvention, legacy, mentorship, and building a practice that serves families at their most vulnerable moments.

From federal clerkship to litigation to a transformative pivot into Medicaid and estate planning, Andy shares how recognizing a knowledge gap changed his career — and gave him back control of his life.

A thoughtful, grounded conversation about facing adversity, protecting families, mentoring the next generation, and why “always do the right thing” is more than just a slogan.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Andy Sykes — Certified Elder Law Attorney practicing in Pennsylvania, with offices in Pittsburgh (Mount Lebanon) and King of Prussia.

Andy focuses on:

Customized estate planning

Medicaid planning

Asset protection

Estate administration

Special needs planning

Strategic tax optimization

What makes his practice unique?

He began from the crisis side — Medicaid litigation — and saw firsthand how poorly drafted estate documents created devastating consequences for families.

“If people have good knowledge and good advice, they get a much better result than they do without it.”

That realization reshaped his entire career.

⭐ In this episode, we cover:

Andy began his career in litigation after clerking for a federal judge and working at a boutique litigation firm where he was handed real cases from day one.

But around the year 2000, a Medicaid case changed everything.

A client had improperly sold her mother’s house while her mother was on Medicaid — costing her over $100,000.

Andy discovered that with proper planning and understanding of Medicaid rules, the outcome could have been dramatically different.

That moment revealed:

A massive knowledge gap

An underserved population

An opportunity to help families proactively

He pivoted fully from litigation to Medicaid and estate planning.

“People don’t understand these rules. If they have good advice, they get a much better result.”

The pivot wasn’t just professional — it was personal.

At the time, Andy’s children were young.

Litigation meant:

Court-driven schedules

Trial deadlines

Stress that spilled into family life

Planning work meant:

Greater control of his calendar

More evenings at home

A healthier work-life balance

“When your practice is planning-focused, you can control your calendar much more.”

Andy’s ideal clients are:

Middle-class families

Individuals approaching or in retirement

Blended families

Families with special needs children

Clients open to proactive, innovative planning

His work emphasizes:

Asset protection strategies

Medicaid eligibility optimization

IRA tax deferral strategies

Multi-generational trust planning

“We optimize and customize estate plans far more than most firms do.”

An older couple found love later in life — but had concerns about:

Protecting assets for their respective children

Nursing home risks

Blended family complications

Through a prenuptial agreement and asset protection trust planning, Andy helped them:

Marry securely

Preserve assets for their children

Protect against Medicaid exposure

Years later, they’re still together.

“It’s great to make it possible for people to feel secure enough to build a life together.”

When Andy began, he sometimes felt imposter syndrome advising older clients.

Now, with grown children and personal estate planning experience — including special needs planning — he brings lived experience into client conversations.

“I can relate now in a way I couldn’t before.”

Midlife has shifted his focus from annual profitability to long-term legacy.

For Andy, success today means:

Training the next generation

Bringing on a summer associate

Passing down a thriving practice

“It’s more about legacy now than just this calendar year.”

He emphasizes mentorship:

“You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Find a mentor.”

One of the most thoughtful parts of the conversation centered on adversity.

Andy’s perspective:

When facing professional or personal setbacks, don’t avoid them.

Turn toward them.

He referenced The Sixth Sense as metaphor — what terrifies us may be pointing toward something we need to confront and understand.

“If you can face adversity and learn from it, it becomes a moment of growth.”

In elder law, identifying the true client is critical.

Often an adult child brings in a parent — but the parent is the client.

This requires:

Clear ethical boundaries

Difficult conversations

Protecting vulnerable individuals

Courage to say “no” when capacity is lacking

“You always have to know who the real client is.”

Andy builds community through:

Live educational seminars

Local referrals

Community visibility

Church involvement

Supporting local music

Hosting estate planning workshops

He also shared an unexpected passion:

Studying improv before the pandemic

Improv, he says, improved his listening skills and presence with clients.

“If people have good advice, they get a much better result.”

“When your practice is planning-focused, you can control your calendar.”

“You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Find a mentor.”

“If you can face adversity and learn from it, it becomes growth.”

“You always have to know who the real client is.”

“Always do the right thing.”

Pivot he’s most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides him:

Person who changed his trajectory:

Certified Elder Law Attorney

Former federal judicial clerk

Studied improv pre-pandemic

Avid audiobook listener

Favorite show: The Crown

Favorite recent song: “Constant Companion” by Juliana Hatfield

Favorite travel destination: Madrid

Has a wild morning dove named Daisy who visits his deck

Learn more about estate planning and elder law services in Pennsylvania:

Attend a live estate planning seminar in Pittsburgh or King of Prussia.

If you have aging parents — don’t wait until crisis. Plan proactively.

A conversation about security, stewardship, facing hard truths, and building a life — and practice — designed around legacy rather than litigation.

J. Scott Bovitz — senior partner at Bovitz & Spitzer in Los Angeles, Board-Certified in Business Bankruptcy Law, Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy, past Chair of the American Board of Certification, adjunct professor, media commentator, ham radio operator, world traveler — and composer of 786 original songs — joins Salene for a wide-ranging conversation about mastery, longevity, leadership, and building a life that blends law, music, teaching, and community.

From launching his own firm in 1991 with his spouse (and still practicing 30+ years later) to recording lawyer-only bands across state lines, teaching generations of law students, and serving in nearly every major bankruptcy organization, Scott shares what it means to stay curious, keep rowing, and never step off your path.

A thoughtful, funny, and deeply grounded conversation about professional reinvention, civic leadership, creativity, and defining success on your own terms.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with J. Scott Bovitz — bankruptcy litigator, educator, organization builder, media spokesperson, and musician.

Scott practices in the Central District of California, representing creditors, landlords, trustees, and distressed businesses in complex bankruptcy litigation. He is Board-Certified in Business Bankruptcy Law (ABC), a Certified Specialist by the State Bar of California, a Fellow of the American College of Bankruptcy, and a past president and chair of numerous professional organizations.

But behind the credentials is a renaissance professional:

Founder of BankruptcyDog.com (a long-running bankruptcy community calendar)

Adjunct professor at Loyola, UNLV, and other law schools

Former member of California’s Committee of Bar Examiners

Frequent media commentator (including national coverage of the Dodgers bankruptcy)

Composer of 786 songs and member of two all-lawyer bands

Photographer who has traveled to 82 countries

⭐ In this episode, we cover:

Clerking for his bankruptcy professor before even getting bar results

Being asked — on short notice — to teach bankruptcy at Loyola

Realizing that teaching creates both mastery and opportunity

Choosing a niche and digging deep

“Find a field and learn everything you possibly can. The law is infinite.”

Leaving a large firm in Century City in 1991 to launch a two-lawyer firm with his spouse.

Negotiating his exit

Managing overhead carefully

Building a litigation-focused bankruptcy practice

Choosing scope intentionally (knowing what not to take)

“When you’re on your own, you decide the scope of your practice.”

Thirty-plus years later, the firm still thrives.

Scott estimates that he spends roughly one-third of his time on non-billable leadership and educational work:

Writing and lecturing (hundreds of programs delivered)

Serving on the State Bar’s Legal Specialization Board

Writing certification exams

Serving on the Committee of Bar Examiners

Leadership in ABC, ABI, local bankruptcy forums

His philosophy:

“Don’t just belong. Participate.”

From answering live call-in radio questions to appearing on CBS 14 times during the Dodgers bankruptcy, Scott shares how showing up publicly builds credibility — and how even his mother finally believed he was a “real lawyer” after seeing him on television.

He’s also fielded complex overnight reporter calls (including on 23andMe bankruptcy privacy issues) — often from airports.

It started in 8th grade — writing a song for a girl.

Years later, mid-career, he took UCLA extension classes in recording technology. That turned into:

A home studio in Los Angeles

Two all-lawyer bands

Remote collaboration across cities

Serving as recording engineer

ABA licensing his music for podcast intros

He writes constantly — and rarely declares a song “done.”

“No song is ever finished.”

Music, he says, keeps him grounded and in flow.

Scott describes the bankruptcy community as surprisingly small — perhaps 300 regular national players.

Whether at ABI, ABC, NCBJ, or local forums, he values walking into a room knowing he has colleagues — and friends.

He also finds connection in unexpected places:

Ham radio (licensed since 1969)

The Los Angeles Lawyers Philharmonic

A lawyer movie club (“Monday Night Lawyer Movie Club — unless it’s on Tuesday”)

BankruptcyDog.com, which he updates daily

“These people who are sometimes your adversaries are your friends.”

Find a mentor you want to be like.

Choose a field and master it.

Go to programs year-round — not just to meet CLE requirements.

Volunteer and say yes.

Never stop sharpening your sword.

“You never master the law. It’s infinite.”

Clients often arrive scared, overly optimistic, or poorly informed.

Scott emphasizes:

Listen first.

Assess whether bankruptcy truly helps.

Explain risks and costs clearly.

Be honest when the answer is no.

“Bankruptcy isn’t magic.”

Scott recently turned 70 and has no plans to slow down.

For him, success means:

Financial security

A stable marriage (married since 1984)

The freedom to create

Being able to walk into a national conference and know people

Continuing to grow

“You never get off your path.”

“Don’t just belong. Participate.”

“When you’re on your own, you decide the scope of your practice.”

“The law is infinite.”

“You never master it.”

“Bankruptcy isn’t magic.”

“You never stop rowing the canoe.”

“Golden rule and common sense — that guides my decisions.”

Pivot he’s most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides him:

People who shaped his trajectory:

Professor David Luna (first employer)

Frank Riall (who asked him to teach)

Michael Dempsey (litigation role model)

Candice Carlyon (ABC leadership invitation)

Learn more about the American Board of Certification:

Explore BankruptcyDog.com (Southern California bankruptcy events calendar):

Connect with the American College of Bankruptcy:

Learn more about the American Bankruptcy Institute:

Barry Gogel, Managing Member of the Baltimore/Towson office of Rifkin Weiner Livingston, joins Salene for a deeply human conversation about complex business litigation, government procurement battles, service-driven leadership, and the personal pivots that define a meaningful life.

A University of Maryland Carey School of Law graduate, former math teacher, adjunct professor, mentor, and — yes — former Baltimore Orioles mascot, Barry shares how the biggest shift in his life wasn’t about career advancement… it was about returning to education and service.

A wise, funny, and unexpectedly profound conversation about humility, aspiration, community, and why the answer is always no if you don’t ask.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Barry Gogel — complex business litigator, procurement attorney, adjunct professor, mentor, and community leader based in Baltimore, Maryland.

Barry practices with Rifkin Weiner Livingston, a mid-sized Maryland business law firm with a strong government relations presence. His work includes:

Complex commercial litigation

Government contracts and procurement bid protests

Contract claims against state agencies

Bankruptcy-related litigation and professional malpractice disputes

High-profile regional disputes (including major sports and development matters)

He describes his practice simply:

“When the stakes are big, we step in.”

But behind the litigation victories is a teacher at heart.

⭐ In this episode, we cover:

Barry began his professional life as a mathematics major who always intended to teach.

Inspired by high school math teachers

Began his career in education

Realized the cyclical nature of teaching left him restless

Pivoted to law for intellectual challenge and financial stability

Yet decades later, he returned to teaching — this time at the University of Maryland School of Law.

Today he teaches:

Negotiations

Coaches the ADR team

Sports and the Law

“My goal is to educate and entertain — not necessarily in that order.”

From 1990–1994, Barry served as a Baltimore Orioles mascot.

Yes — fully costumed.

“What makes a good mascot? The heart of a three-year-old.”

He describes it as:

“The most fun you can have fully dressed.”

The experience shaped his understanding of performance, energy, and connection — skills that translate directly to the courtroom and the classroom.

Barry’s legal niche includes state procurement disputes — a small bar of lawyers who challenge arbitrary or unlawful government contract decisions.

Ideal clients:

Businesses with major state contracts

Companies unfairly disfavored in competitive bidding

Contractors willing to fight when the stakes justify it

He also handles litigation that emerges from bankruptcies — especially professional malpractice actions pursued by creditors’ committees.

“There’s no problem so big we can’t handle — so long as you’re not kicked out of court.”

Two weeks into practice, Barry took on a pro bono civil rights case through the ACLU involving racial discrimination at a jewelry store.

Investigated discriminatory appointment practices

Litigated aggressively

Settled after key motions

It consumed half of his first year’s billable time — and cemented his identity as an advocate.

The biggest pivot in Barry’s life wasn’t professional — it was personal.

A lunch with former law school dean Don Gifford changed everything.

Barry realized he had drifted too far from education — the space that originally inspired him.

He volunteered to coach the law school’s negotiations team.

He said yes.

That decision grew into:

A formal academic negotiations course

A thriving ADR community

A mentorship network of former students

A long-term legacy of training young lawyers

“It’s great to be happy. It’s even better if someone else is happy because of you.”

Barry’s involvement with Maryland Youth in the Law (MYLAW) became another defining chapter.

The program:

Places Baltimore City students in paid legal internships

Closes opportunity gaps

Changes career trajectories

He describes asking students to reflect on a moment they were truly selfless — expecting nothing in return.

“You should be selfish in seeking out those selfless moments. That’s the best medicine you can give yourself.”

One of Barry’s most memorable frameworks:

“The key to happiness is low expectations.

He teaches clients — and students — to:

Pursue boldly

Accept outcomes

Not let failure define them

“The answer is no if you don’t ask.”

Don’t be your own lawyer.

Seek outside judgment early.

Don’t wait until it’s too late.

Temper expectations in litigation.

“Call me before it’s too late.”

For Barry, leadership means:

Empathy without absorption

Listening without ego

Telling hard truths clearly

Separating your client’s problem from your identity

“You can’t be afraid of the hard truth.”

“The heart of a three-year-old.”

“The answer is no if you don’t ask.”

“Be selfish in your selflessness.”

“The key to happiness is low expectations. The key to success is high aspirations. The key to life is understanding the difference.”

“Don’t be your own lawyer.”

“There’s no problem so big we can’t handle — so long as you’re not kicked out of court.”

Pivot he’s most proud of:

Practice that keeps him grounded:

Principle that guides him:

People who changed his trajectory:

High school math teachers

Don Gifford (law school dean)

John Murphy (mentor)

Arnold Wiener (father-in-law and legal inspiration)

His wife, Debra

His children

Former Baltimore Orioles mascot

Mathematics major

Adjunct professor of negotiations & sports law

Owns a Hobie Cat sailboat

Favorite show: Ted Lasso

Favorite music: Jimmy Buffett, Jim Croce, John Denver

Favorite podcast: Lost Ballparks

Two “crazy” chihuahuas named Rice and Beans

Learn more about Maryland Youth in the Law (MYLAW):

Explore Rifkin Weiner Livingston:

University of Maryland Francis King Carey School of Law:

Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of Columbia and recipient of the 2025 American Bar Association Business Bankruptcy Committee’s Kathryn R. Heidt Memorial Award, joins Salene to talk about bravery, authenticity, public service, and the pivots that shape a life in law.   She is Board-Certified in Consumer Bankruptcy by the American Board of Certification.

From being bullied in a tiny Oregon town to becoming one of the most recognizable voices in bankruptcy education (including the wildly popular “Bad Boys of Bankruptcy” podcast), Judge Gunn shares candidly about her journey: leaving BigLaw, taking a pay cut for purpose, balancing motherhood with the bench, and finding her voice as a leader.

A powerful, warm, and deeply human conversation about resilience, reinvention, and why the scariest decisions are sometimes the truest.

Today on The Pivot Playbook, Salene sits down with Hon. Elizabeth A. Gunn, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the District of Columbia, marathon runner, mother of two, scholar, podcast creator, and the 2025 recipient of the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee’s Kathryn R. Heidt Memorial Award.

Judge Gunn is known for her intellect, her service, and her creativity — including launching the ABA’s hit series “The Bad Boys of Bankruptcy,” now the most-listened-to podcast in the entire Business Law Section.

But behind the accolades is a story of courage, reinvention, and authenticity.

Growing up as the academically gifted “outsider”

Being bullied and persevering

Discovering bankruptcy law through Professor Ingrid Hillinger

Working BigLaw → regional firm → Virginia AG’s office → federal judge

Leaving private practice, taking a massive pay cut, and betting on purpose over prestige — a scary leap that ultimately led to national recognition and her judgeship.

How running keeps her sane, what she listens to, and why Berlin and Sydney marathons mark chapters in her personal story.

How it started

The wildest stories (Seattle jewel-smuggling fugitives, Dunkin’ Donuts Ponzi schemes, hidden jewelry walls!)

How storytelling makes bankruptcy accessible and engaging

Authenticity vs. “playing the role”

The “mom finger” for mansplainers

Being the only woman in the courtroom

Raising confident kids while doing demanding work

Distressed business owners: “Do NOT wait until it’s an 8, 9, or 10 crisis. Come in at a 4 or 5—before it’s too late.”

Creditors: “Open your mail. Participate. The squeaky wheel often gets the grease.”

Pivot she’s most proud of: Leaving private practice + applying for the bench

Practice that keeps her grounded: Being a mom

Principle that guides her: Treat people the way you want to be treated

Person who changed her trajectory: Her mentor, Roy Terry — and her mother

“Sometimes the best decision is the scariest decision. Be brave.”

“I wasn’t successful until I stopped trying to be who I thought a lawyer should be — and just became myself.”

“If they walked in six months earlier, we could have saved it.”

“The bankruptcy code protects the people who show up.”

“Treat others the way you want to be treated — it’s not complicated.”

“This is probably my last job ever, and I love it.”

Learn more about the ABA Business Bankruptcy Committee: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/about/committees/business-bankruptcy/subcommittees/

Listen to Bad Boys of Bankruptcy podcast: 

Connect with Judge Gunn’s work through NCBJ, ABC, ABI, and the Federal Bar Association

In this heartfelt Halloween episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer sits down with David Prelle Eron, founder of Prelle Eron & Bailey, P.A. in Wichita, Kansas.

A business bankruptcy attorney, former U.S. Trustee, and board-certified specialist, David shares his remarkable journey from Los Angeles litigator to Kansas farm bankruptcy expert — and how faith, humility, and perspective guide every pivot.

They discuss the power of gratitude, the beauty of second chances, and why “it’s only money” might be the most freeing mantra of all.

Guest: David Prelle Eron

Founding his Kansas law firm after leaving the U.S. Trustee’s Office — and the courage to create a practice that reflects his values

How Chapter 12 “farm bankruptcies” became his specialty — representing over 50% of all Chapter 12 debtors in Kansas

Why bankruptcy is the most compassionate area of law, helping people rebuild dignity and stability

His mentor’s timeless advice: “Debtors are debtors for a reason.”

Serving on the ABC Board of Directors and launching the Membership Committee to connect certified specialists nationwide

Why running a law firm means mastering both law and business — “Running a firm is not practicing law.”

His personal pivots: from government to entrepreneurship, from lawyer to leader, and from parent to grandparent

Perspective is everything. “99 times out of 100, whatever you’re dealing with isn’t the end of the universe.”

Bankruptcy is grace in action. It’s a safety net that lets families and businesses begin again.

Leadership means service. Whether through board work or community faith projects, success is about contribution.

Running a business is its own profession. Master your craft — but also learn to manage, lead, and plan.

Faith and gratitude fuel longevity. Ground yourself in purpose beyond profits.

“It’s only money. You can rebuild that. What matters is your health, your faith, and your family.”

Law School: University of Iowa

Undergrad: Iowa State University

Favorite Show: Seinfeld

Bucket List Trip: Italy — Rome, Florence & Venice with his wife

Best Gift: A heartfelt two-page text from his daughter on his birthday

Recent Trip: Ireland, for the Iowa State vs. Kansas State football game 🇮🇪

Favorite Quote: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

Hidden Talent: Scuba certified — last dove Beaver Lake, Arkansas

Faith & Service: Active in his Catholic parish; performs in annual church musicals raising $150,000+ for charity

Family: 7 children, 5 grandkids (“grandies”), and 2 cats 🐈‍⬛

➡️ The Pivot Playbook with Salene Mazur Kraemer

#ThePivotPlaybook #MazurKraemer #Podcast #BankruptcyLaw #FaithAndBusiness #Leadership #Resilience #FreshStarts #Entrepreneurship #LawyersOfLinkedIn #BoardCertified #FarmBankruptcy #PivotStories

In this inspiring episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer talks with Sari Placona, partner at https://www.msbnj.com/ 

Career evolution from paralegal to partner, discovering a passion for restructuring law

Leadership in IWIRC New Jersey and the impact of women supporting women

Winning the IWIRC Rising Star Award and mentoring other young professionals

Experience in complex Chapter 11 cases — including Rite Aid, Bed Bath & Beyond, and Mercedes-Benz

How bankruptcy can be a path to renewal, not failure

The bold personal pivot of leaving a toxic friendship group and choosing peace

Sari’s fitness and mindset transformation, building confidence through discipline

Pivoting isn’t failure — it’s freedom. Sometimes leaving what no longer serves you opens new doors.

Act early. In both business and personal life, clarity comes through decisive action.

Strength is contagious. When you show up strong, others do too.

Relationships matter. Nurture the ones that support your growth and peace.

“You should fill the cups that fill your cup.”

Law School: Rutgers Law

Undergrad: Rutgers University (New Brunswick — Communications & Sociology)

Favorite Shows: The Morning Show (Apple TV), Love Is Blind (Netflix)

Vacation: Greece with family

Best Gift: Whitney Houston memorabilia (and her parents’ unwavering support)

Music: Currently on a Taylor Swift kick 🎶

Workout Routine: HIIT and Warrior Sculpt Yoga

Favorite City: Chicago

Fun Fact: Has a twin brother, Scott, in sports marketing

Pet: None (but grew up with a family dog)

➡️ The Pivot Playbook with Salene Mazur Kraemer

#ThePivotPlaybook #MazurKraemer #Podcast #IWIRC #WomenInLaw #Resilience #Leadership #FreshStarts #Reinvention #TurnaroundStories #LawyersOfLinkedIn

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer sits down with Sam Wisotzkey, head of the Business & Financial Services Group at Kohner, Mann & Kailas, S.C. in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  https://kmksc.com/samuel-c-wisotzkey/ 

From tomato contracts in California to his great-uncle’s mysterious Bermuda Triangle disappearance, this conversation blends insight, history, and humanity — reminding us that even in law and finance, stories connect us all.

Guest: Sam Wisotzkey

Sam’s career path from Phoenix to Milwaukee, and how geography shaped his practice

His 21-year tenure with the firm and leadership in business bankruptcy and creditors’ rights

The story behind a national client and a tomato supply chain — and how quick thinking in a Chapter 11 saved operations nationwide

Board service on the American Board of Certification, including work on the Faculty Committee grading exams and developing new content

The importance of acting early in distressed situations — and how “strike while the iron is hot” applies in collections and bankruptcy

His deep ties to Pittsburgh, where he grew up in the North Hills before heading west

A fascinating family mystery: his great-uncle’s disappearance on the USS Cyclops in the Bermuda Triangle

Reflections on hiking, family, and storytelling as balancing forces in a demanding practice

For Creditors: Engage experienced counsel early — delays reduce leverage and recovery.

For Professionals: Certification adds credibility and connects you to a national network of experts.

For Everyone: Approach challenges with curiosity and calm — “hindsight makes even chaos meaningful.”

“Things don’t get better with time. Strike while the iron is hot.”

Law School: University of Michigan (Go Blue!)

Favorite Show: The Bear (Hulu)

Movie: The Shawshank Redemption

Vacations: Grand Canyon hike to Phantom Ranch; Glacier National Park

Dessert: Chocolate mousse or any chocolate cake

Best Gift: His two daughters

Music: 80s & 90s playlists

Podcast: Wait Wait… Don’t Tell Me! (NPR)

Favorite City: Amsterdam (and, of course, Milwaukee!)

➡️ The Pivot Playbook hosted by Salene Mazur Kraemer

In this episode of The Pivot Playbook, Salene talks with Ed Bolts, a North Carolina–based consumer bankruptcy attorney who has helped thousands of families reset through Chapter 7 and 13. Ed shares why seeing a lawyer sooner changes everything, how he helped shape the 2022 DOJ/Department of Education student-loan discharge guidelines, and why boundaries and compassion both matter when clients are under stress. They also swap stories about travel, family, and the power of storytelling in advocacy.

Guest: Ed Boltz

Board Certified bankruptcy specialist since 2004 (legacy; transitioned to ABC in 2007)

ABC Board member; Standards/Recertification committee experience

Student-loan expertise: Contributed to DOJ/Dept. of Education adversary-proceeding guidelines (2022); alt. member, DOE negotiating rulemaking committee

Active with NACBA and related consumer practice groups

What we cover

Ed’s path from Michigan → North Carolina and into consumer bankruptcy (no classes in law school—learned by doing!)

Running a high-volume consumer practice: why paralegal ops matter and how the work is equal parts law + social work

Student loans in/around bankruptcy: how the 2022 DOJ/DOE guidance opened doors, and coordinating non-BK and BK options

Boundaries & burnout: being compassionate without carrying every client’s entire life home

The stigma of bankruptcy and why clients should talk to counsel earlier (before making avoidable mistakes)

A favorite moment: a car-wash selfie with a young man whose family kept their home through a Chapter 13—the “why” behind the work

Storytelling, community, and purpose: Ed’s local storytelling nonprofit (The Monti) and why narrative skills make better lawyers

Key takeaways

Don’t wait. Most consumers would be better off meeting a bankruptcy lawyer sooner, not after doing “fixes” that cause clawbacks/delays.

Student-loan relief is evolving. With the 2022 DOJ/DOE framework, undue hardship cases are more navigable—if you know the playbook.

Compassion + boundaries = sustainable advocacy. Hold empathy, set limits, serve the next client well.

Consumer practice is retail law: systems, staffing, and consistent communication are everything.

Notable quotes

“Most people would have been better off if they came to see a bankruptcy attorney sooner.”

Rapid-fire highlights

Law school: George Washington (GW Law)

Undergrad: Washington University in St. Louis

Streaming: Ozark; currently Hightown

Movies: The Lord of the Rings (also loves classic comedy Blazing Saddles)

Recent trip: A week in Barcelona with his daughters

Dessert: Anything chocolate + peanut butter; signature strawberry-rhubarb pie

Best gift: Great-grandfather’s pocket watch (family heirloom)

Last song: “I’m Broke” — Black Joe Lewis & the Honeybears

Podcast pick: Swindled

Pet: “Nessie,” a sweet Carolina dog

Favorite city visited: Istanbul

Guest links

The Monti (storytelling nonprofit): https://www.themonti.org/storytellers/ed-boltz 

Ed’s professional profile/firm: https://www.billsbills.com/attorneys/edward-c-boltz 

Host: Salene Mazur Kraemer

In this trailer episode of The Pivot Playbook, host Salene Mazur Kraemer introduces her vision for a show that celebrates second chances, fresh starts, and the power of the pivot. Drawing on her 25 years in business law and her passion for storytelling, Salene explores how professionals, entrepreneurs, and dreamers navigate change with integrity and courage.