THE POWER OF REINVENTION with Kathi Sharpe-Ross

THE POWER OF REINVENTION with Kathi Sharpe-Ross

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THE POWER OF REINVENTION with Kathi Sharpe-Ross episodes

  • EP 143: The Mindset of Reinvention: Confidence, Hard Work, and Taking Action with Maha Abouelenein

    What does it really take to reinvent yourself, build a successful career, and create opportunities instead of waiting for them? Maha Abouelenein knows firsthand.

    In Episode 143 of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, host Kathi Sharpe-Ross is joined by Maha Abouelenein, a strategic communication expert, best-selling author, and entrepreneur with more than three decades of experience working with some of the world’s most recognized brands. As CEO and Founder of Digital and Savvy, a global communications firm with offices in the U.S. and UAE, Maha has helped Google, Netflix, VaynerX, high-profile CEOs, and major global organizations craft their message, build credibility, and transform their communications strategies.

    But Maha’s career isn’t just about high-stakes deals and global campaigns—it’s about resilience, self-reliance, and the ability to start over at any stage of life. She shares her journey of moving from Minnesota to Egypt at 27 with no network, figuring it all out, and building a name for herself in the Middle East. Then, at 50 years old, when the pandemic hit, Maha made the bold decision to leave Dubai within 24 hours and move back to the U.S.—this time with no job, no connections, and no guarantees.

    Maha dives deep into the power of confidence, the reality of creating your own opportunities, and why waiting to “feel ready” is the biggest mistake people make. She also shares insights from her USA TODAY best-selling book, The Seven Rules of Self-Reliance, which outlines strategies for building confidence, mastering personal branding, and taking control of your future.

    This episode is packed with real talk about Reinvention, from pivoting careers to navigating cultural identity, from networking the right way to understanding why self-reliance is the foundation of success.

    If you’re looking for practical advice on how to take charge of your career, build a powerful personal brand, and unlock new opportunities, this is the episode for you.


    Key Takeaways:

    • Reinvention is possible at any age and any stage—you just have to be willing to put in the work.
    • Confidence isn’t a prerequisite—it’s a result of taking action.

    • You don’t wait for opportunities—you create them.

    • Self-reliance is the foundation of personal and professional growth.


    Maha’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maha-abouelenein/details/experience/

    Maha’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mahagaber/?hl=en

    Digital & Savvy: https://digitalandsavvy.com/

    Maha's Personal Website: https://www.mahaabouelenein.com/

    Order Your Own Copy of Seven Rules of Self-Reliance: https://a.co/d/gZMFCPj


    THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
    IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/⁠

    FB: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/⁠

    LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross⁠    

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch

    39 min
  • EP 142: High Stakes Finance to a Mission for Unity in America with Adam Mizel

    In this episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, Kathi Sharpe-Ross talks with Adam Mizel, co-founder and CEO of US United, about his unexpected journey—from high-stakes finance to leading a national movement for unity.

    Adam grew up in New Jersey with dreams of making it big on Wall Street. For years, he thrived in the fast-paced world of finance, negotiating billion-dollar deals and treating every day like a high-stakes battle. He embraced the challenge, but as his career evolved, so did his perspective. When his wife became pregnant with their first child, Adam started questioning what success really meant. After years of bouncing between roles in private equity and leadership positions, he found himself drawn to something more meaningful—creating a space for people to reconnect in an increasingly divided world.

    Now, as the leader of US United, a non-partisan nonprofit dedicated to breaking down social and political barriers, Adam travels the country fostering real conversations and leading initiatives like the Concert for Unity and 30 for Us.

    This episode is about stepping away from what’s expected and building something that truly matters. If you’ve ever felt like you were chasing a dream that no longer fit, this conversation is for you.If you want to be a unifier and bring people together in your everyday life, here are 10 things you can do for unity—any day, anywhere:

    1. Wear Purple – A universal color of unity and a simple way to spark conversation about coming together.

    2. Take the Unity Pledge – Commit to listening, understanding, and finding common ground with those around you. (Check out US United’s pledge!)

    3. Join a 30 for Us Event – Get out of your bubble and engage in real, meaningful conversations with people from different backgrounds.

    4. Support the Holiday Spectacular – Participate in a community-driven initiative that spreads joy and connection during the holidays.

    5. Reach Out to Someone You’ve Lost Touch With – Reconnect with an old friend, co-worker, or family member to rebuild relationships and bridge past differences.

    6. Start a Unity Challenge – Encourage friends or co-workers to step outside their comfort zones, talk to someone new, or volunteer together.

    7. Help Someone Out—No Strings Attached – Whether it’s a kind word, buying someone coffee, or lending a hand, small acts of generosity can create ripples of connection.

    8. Break the Social Media Bubble – Challenge yourself to follow and engage with perspectives different from your own, and promote messages of understanding.

    9. Host a Unity Dinner or Meetup – Gather people from diverse backgrounds to share a meal and real conversations—because food has always been a great unifier.

    10. Lead by Example – Speak up for inclusion, promote respect in your community, and make unity a part of your everyday interactions.

    Unity isn’t just a big event—it’s a daily mindset. The more we show up for each other, the stronger our communities become.

    Key Takeaways:

    • The definition of success changes as life unfolds—stay open to where it leads.

    • High-pressure careers shape us, but true fulfillment comes from purpose.

    • Social media shapes our perceptions, but real conversations change lives.

    • True leadership is about connection, not control.

    • Small, meaningful actions can ripple into large-scale impact.

    US United Website: https://www.us-united.org/

    US United IG: https://www.instagram.com/us_united_org/

    Adam’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adammmizel/


    THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
    IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

    FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


    53 min
  • EP 141: Your Brand, Your Story: The Art of Reinvention with Robin Fisher Roffer


    In this episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, host Kathi Sharpe-Ross sits down with branding guru Robin Fisher Roffer, a global thought leader who has helped shape some of the biggest brands in media and beyond.

    Robin shares how her upbringing—watching her father run a boutique advertising agency—sparked her passion for storytelling and branding. From launching major entertainment networks like CNN, TNT and Hulu to guiding Fortune 500 executives on personal branding, her career has been one of continuous Reinvention.

    The conversation delves into the transformative power of Self-Reinvention—whether in personal identity, career shifts or creative pursuits. Robin discusses overcoming fear, stepping into one’s true potential, and designing a life that aligns with passion and purpose. She also explores the role of storytelling in both business and personal growth, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in branding.

    This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration to pivot, evolve and embrace the next chapter of their life with confidence.

    • Reinvention is a lifelong process—there’s no set timeline for change.

    • “Fear and Reinvention go hand in hand—you can’t have one without the other.”

    • Speaking your dreams into existence creates accountability and momentum.

    • Bringing your whole self to work fosters deeper connections and creativity.

    • Every challenge in life is an opportunity to reshape your story.

    Robin Roffer - linkedin.com/in/robinf1

    www.bigfishmarketing.com


    THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats

    To buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com


    IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

    FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


    51 min
  • E140: Turning Points: How Reinvention Shapes the Future with Madeline Di Nonno

    Welcome to the first episode of 2025! In this episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, host Kathi Sharpe-Ross kicks off the year with an inspiring conversation featuring Madeline Di Nonno, President and CEO of the Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media.

    Madeline shares how a turning point in her career—when two significant life events collided—pushed her to reimagine her path and embrace Reinvention. She reflects on leaving behind a successful corporate career in entertainment to lead a mission-driven organization advocating for inclusion and representation in media.

    The conversation explores the challenges and rewards of career transitions, the impact of research and AI on gender bias in storytelling, and the importance of staying adaptable in a rapidly evolving world. Madeline’s story reminds us that the most transformative moments often come from life’s biggest disruptions.

    Whether you’re navigating your own Reinvention or looking for inspiration to start the year with purpose, this episode offers powerful insights and actionable wisdom to set you on the right path.

    Key Takeaways:

    • Reinvention often begins with a moment of discomfort—embrace it as an opportunity.

    • Life rarely unfolds in a straight line; sometimes, challenges lead us to the most meaningful paths.

    • Take stock of what truly matters to you and let that guide your decisions.

    • AI and technology are reshaping every industry; staying curious and adaptable is non-negotiable.

    • Reinvention is not a one-time event—it’s a mindset that you can revisit whenever life calls for it.


    • Madeline’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/madelinedinonno/


      THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
      IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

      FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

      LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

      Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


      40 min
    • E139: Life’s Big Questions: The Journey Behind Nikki Erlick’s Book, The Measure

      In this insightful episode of The Power of Reinvention, host Kathi Sharpe-Ross engages in a profound conversation with bestselling author Nikki Erlick. Nikki, author of The Measure, shares her inspiring journey from travel writer to celebrated novelist, a path she embarked on more fully during the pandemic. Her debut novel, which has captured readers worldwide, raises powerful questions about life, mortality and how we choose to spend our time.

      Nikki opens up about the creative process behind The Measure, discussing the impact of knowing one’s lifespan, the importance of family support, and the personal reflections that inform her storytelling. Together, Kathi and Nikki explore how grappling with life’s biggest questions can lead to a deeper appreciation for the present. Nikki also speaks candidly about the challenges and anxieties of writing and her hopes for a future focused on storytelling.

      Tune in for a heartfelt conversation about embracing life’s uncertainties, pursuing creative dreams, and finding purpose in each day. This episode will leave you inspired to live intentionally and view Reinvention as a path to fulfillment.

      Key Takeaways:

      • Unexpected life pauses can open doors to new pursuits and creative dreams.

      • Exploring life’s biggest questions can lead to a deeper appreciation for the present.

      • Reflecting on mortality can inspire intentional choices and purposeful living.

      • Support from loved ones can be essential in navigating new paths.

      • Links:

        Nikki’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikki-erlick-a998999b/

        The Measure : https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58884736-the-measure

        THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
        IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

        FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

        LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

        Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


        35 min
      • E138: ROAR Forward: Reinventing the Second Half of Life with Michael Clinton

        In this dynamic episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, host Kathi Sharpe-Ross welcomes Michael Clinton, the visionary founder of ROAR Forward and acclaimed author of ROAR into the Second Half of Your Life. Together, they unpack the transformative power of personal Reinvention and Clinton's revolutionary concept of "life layering."

        From the corporate heights of Hearst and Condé Nast to scaling Mount Kilimanjaro, earning his pilot's license, and becoming a marathoner, Michael shares his remarkable journey of continuous evolution. His story exemplifies how Reinvention isn't just about career changes—it's about embracing life's full spectrum of possibilities.

        At the heart of the conversation is the ROAR framework:

        • Reimagine yourself and your future

        • Own your numbers (age is just data!)

        • Action plan your next chapter

        • Reassess relationships and build your support network

        • Michael and Kathi dive deep into the emerging longevity movement, challenging outdated perceptions of aging and revealing the extraordinary opportunities awaiting in life's second act. Their discussion illuminates how anyone can reclaim dormant dreams and transform them into reality through strategic planning and bold action.

          The episode and the work Michael is doing offers a masterclass in personal transformation, packed with practical strategies for:

          • Embracing adventure as a catalyst for growth

          • Adding new layers of passion and purpose to each decade

          • Building vital community connections

          • Overcoming mental barriers to change

          • Navigating major life transitions with confidence

          • Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, rekindling forgotten passions, or seeking fresh purpose, this conversation provides the blueprint for your next chapter. Join Kathi and Michael as they reveal how to ROAR forward into a life of endless possibilities—proving that your most exciting adventures may still lie ahead.

            Links:

            Michael’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-anthony-clinton/ ROAR FORWARD: https://roarforward.com/


            THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com

            IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

            FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

            LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

            Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


            38 min
          • E137: From Journalism to Boardrooms: Reinventing with Sarah Zapp

            In this engaging episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, Kathi Sharpe-Ross sits down with Sarah Zapp, the CEO and Founder of Beyond Board, to explore her dynamic journey from award-winning broadcast journalist to powerhouse entrepreneur. Sarah shares how her experiences, from constantly moving as a child to succeeding in high-stakes journalism, shaped her drive to connect people and create opportunities.

            Sarah dives into the importance of personal style and energy, the challenges of balancing personal passions with professional success and the art of Reinvention. She opens up about founding Beyond Board, a thriving community focused on diversifying board positions, and emphasizes the value of understanding your core competencies. Sarah’s journey highlights the power of relationships, setting boundaries and staying relevant in an ever-evolving world.

            Key Takeaways:

            • Energy Matters: Personal style and energy can make a lasting impact and open doors.

            • Reinvent with Purpose: Reinvention is about recognizing your strengths and finding new paths that align with them.

            • Relationships are Key: Building connections and creating opportunities for others are essential for growth.

            • Boundaries are Crucial: Setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care help maintain balance and prevent burnout.

            • Stay Open to Change: Surrounding yourself with inspiring people and being open to new experiences keeps you evolving.

            • Links:

              Sarah’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahzapp/


              THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com

              IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

              FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

              LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

              Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch

              36 min
            • E 136: The Sound of Reinvention: Shelly Palmer's Evolution in Tech and Tunes

              In this lively episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, host Kathi Sharpe-Ross engages in a deep conversation with Shelly Palmer, an Emmy Award-winning composer turned tech trailblazer and influential thought leader in digital media. Shelly shares his fascinating journey—from being deeply immersed in the music industry, where he composed iconic TV theme songs, to becoming a major figure in the world of digital transformation. His story is one of incredible adaptability and evolution, pivoting from a successful music career to pioneering advancements in media and technology for Fortune 500 companies.

              Shelly reflects on how intertwined his early years were with music, and how those creative foundations became the bedrock for his transition into the tech world. He speaks to the immense changes in technology and media over the decades, highlighting the contrasts between where we were then versus the hyper-connected, AI-driven landscape we navigate today. As the creator of the popular "Generative AI for Execs" course and recognized as LinkedIn's "Top Voice in Technology," Shelly offers invaluable insights into navigating change, staying committed to lifelong learning, and blending creativity with technology to create real impact.

              Tune in for an inspiring conversation on how to thrive by embracing Reinvention and driving transformation in today’s fast-paced, ever-evolving world!

              KEY TAKEAWAYS:

              • From Music to Media: Shelly’s early career as a composer provided a foundation for creative problem-solving in both business and technology.
              • Embracing Change: Adaptability is essential for navigating career shifts and maintaining relevance in the digital age.
              • Lifelong Learning: Success requires a continuous commitment to learning and evolving, regardless of where your career path leads.
              • Blending Art and Tech: The integration of creativity and technology fosters innovation and opens doors for transformation.
              • Impact of Technology: The rapid advancement of technology has not only reshaped the media industry but also transformed how we engage with the world.
              • Links:

                Shelly’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/shellypalmer/

                Shelly Palmer’s Website :  https://shellypalmer.com/


                THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
                IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

                FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

                LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

                Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch

                57 min
              • E135: What Lights You Up? Finding Your Passion with Mary Olson-Menzel

                In this inspiring episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, Kathi Sharpe-Ross sits down with Mary Olson-Menzel, the CEO and Founder of MVP Executive Development, to explore the transformative power of Reinvention. Mary shares her incredible career journey, spanning over 30 years across global media, tech, healthcare, and more. With her upcoming book, "What Lights You Up?," Mary dives into how curiosity and courage can drive personal and professional growth. The conversation highlights overcoming fear, setting boundaries, and taking small but impactful steps towards your goals. Mary’s insights remind us that self-discovery and embracing what truly lights you up can pave the way to a more fulfilling life.

                Key Takeaways:

                • Curiosity fuels career growth: Staying curious helps open doors to new opportunities.

                • Fear holds us back: Don’t let fear and excuses keep you from your passions.

                • Celebrate small wins: Recognize and honor the progress you make along the way.

                • Boundaries matter: Setting boundaries is key to maintaining work-life balance.

                • Gratitude shifts perspective: Focusing on gratitude can change how you view your journey.

                • Global experience: Learning from diverse industries and perspectives enhances leadership.

                • Creating your roadmap: Define what lights you up and take actionable steps towards it.

                • Links:

                  Mary’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-olson-menzel-mvpexec/

                  Mary’s Website: https://www.maryolsonmenzel.com/

                  Mary’s Book: https://www.maryolsonmenzel.com/#Order


                  THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
                  IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

                  FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

                  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

                  Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


                  48 min
                • E134: Firefighting, Gaming and Margs: Reinventing with a Twist with Jaci Hays

                  In this dynamic episode of THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION, Kathi Sharpe-Ross sits down with Jaci Hays, CEO and Co-Founder of El Mar Margaritas, to explore her incredible journey from firefighting in the mountains of Oregon to becoming a trailblazer in the gaming, entertainment, and digital media industries. Jaci shares how her fearless spirit has driven her to break new ground at every turn, from launching GoPro Media to her leadership roles at FaZe Clan and CBS Interactive.

                  Throughout the conversation, Jaci opens up about the challenges of navigating male-dominated fields, balancing motherhood, and pushing boundaries in both her professional and personal life. She reflects on her decision to start El Mar Margaritas and the lessons learned from entering the competitive alcohol industry. Jaci’s insights are a testament to the power of reinvention, highlighting how embracing change and trusting your instincts can lead to success.

                  Kathi and Jaci dive deep into themes of resilience, teamwork, and the importance of self-care—especially when breaking new ground. Jaci’s story is a powerful reminder that taking risks, staying true to your passions, and surrounding yourself with a supportive community can lead to remarkable reinventions.

                  Key Takeaways:

                  • Trust Your Instincts: Jaci emphasizes the importance of listening to your gut and being open to new opportunities, even if they seem daunting.

                  • Team Collaboration is Key: From firefighting to leading gaming giants, Jaci shares how working together is crucial for success.

                  • Navigating Work-Life Balance: Balancing a demanding career and motherhood is challenging, but Jaci highlights the need for setting boundaries and making time for self-care.

                  • Women Supporting Women: Jaci’s experiences underline the importance of camaraderie among women in business and the impact of lifting each other up.

                  • Reinventing in the Face of Challenges: Jaci’s journey shows that taking risks and embracing change can lead to breakthroughs, new adventures, and unexpected success.

                  • Global Perspectives Shape Innovation: Jaci discusses how working internationally and being embedded in youth culture have influenced her approach to business.

                  • Links:

                    Jaci’s LinkedIn : https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaci-hays-5174a6/

                    El Mar Margaritas :  https://enjoyelmar.com/


                    THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com
                    IG: https://www.instagram.com/kathisr_chief_reinventor/

                    FB: https://www.facebook.com/kathi.sharpeross/

                    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathisharpeross    

                    Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReinventionExch


                    41 min

                  About THE POWER OF REINVENTION with Kathi Sharpe-Ross

                  From the publisher's feed

                  Welcome to THE POWER OF RE:INVENTION. Inspired by the best-selling book written by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? (March, 2020) these introspective interviews will…