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In this episode, comparative cognitive scientist Dr. Reggie Gazes and my office neighbor Dr. Ikuma Adachi.

Reggie is an associate professor of psychology and animal behavior at Bucknell University in Lewisburg Pennsylvania. She and Ikuma overlapped as trainees in the lab of Dr. Robert Hampton at the now-named Emory National Primate Research Center.

Listen to Rob in episode 20 of the podcast on mental time travel and metacognition.

In the interview here, we find out how her experiences in Rob’s lab translated into Reggie’s own approach to being a teacher-scholar at Bucknell University.

Since a large part of what Reggie does involves engaging, supporting and doing research alongside undergraduate students, I thought it fitting to ask for their input in designing the interview, which can be thought of as a sort of collaboration with them.

Along with Reggie riffing on Bunny the dog, teaching students like she trains her monkeys, and - spoiler alert! - why she won’t go to karaoke with her students, we talk at length about the nuts and bolts of doing comparative cognitive science, and particularly in the context of animals in social groups.

Some key studies done by Reggie and her lab mates that are a great primer for this conversation include her work on factors influencing touchscreen work in rhesus macaques and how social networks predict learning outcomes in capuchins. 

She really gets across in our conversation just how important it is to consider the rich social lives of animals when trying to design cognitive tests and understand how they think and why.

These are the kinds of things that would really matter to individual primates living under natural conditions, so it was great hearing Reggie’s thoughts on how this type of cognitive experimentation was gaining more and more traction, despite its many challenges!

Other topics covered in the interview:

• TikTok's Bunny the dog
• peanut butter sandwiches
• mentorship and role models
• teaching and scholarship
• imposter syndrome and the importance of collaboration

For more on Reggie Gazes and the 'Awesomeness' of her work, check out the Comparative Cognition & Behavior at Bucknell lab. 

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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In this episode of The PrimateCast origins, we’re sharing a lecture given by wildlife biologist and conservationist Dr. Ian Redmond, OBE.

Ian is renowned for his work with gorillas and elephants in Africa. Through research, filming, ecotourism, and conservation science and activism, he’s spent over 40 years cultivating the wisdom and the network needed to inspire and incite real change. 

In this lecture, Ian weaves an engaging tale around his experiences. His wonderful storytelling might make you feel, as I did, like you’re part of the story. And I think that’s one of Ian’s main points; that all of us are part of nature’s story and importantly can be part of its protectorate in lots of different ways.

His stories move effortlessly from African villagers to conservation icons to world leaders, and you get the sense that Ian is at home amongst all of them, never losing sight of the ultimate goal of protecting the planet and its diverse inhabitants. 

He jokes about how he got himself to Karisoke research station to study gorillas by offering to fix Dianne Fossey’s leaky roof. And even has some fun stories about Sir David Attenborough during his filming for the iconic BBC series Life on Earth. 

But its his descriptions of his time in the forests, with the gorillas and elephants, with the local people that live alongside them, which really sparks in us that sense of what might be lost if we fail to act on behalf of the Earth.

To that end, Ian leaves us with some ways to support conservation efforts, including some of the initiatives he’s been directly involved in over the years. Here’s where you might be surprised to learn about blockchains for elephants! 

But it all seems to be part of the bigger picture of finding ways to assess the economic value of the ecosystem services species like elephants and gorillas provide, as the true gardeners of the forests.

It’s easy to get swept away by Ian’s easy nature, engaging rhetoric, and just his plain old dude with interesting stories vibe. But you’re going to learn a lot listening to this lecture.

Other topics covered and links to related organizations:

• virtual ecotourism through vEcotourism
• non-profit nature documentaries at Ecoflix
• holistic natural capital and nature credits with Rebalance Earth
• Great Apes Survival Partnership
• Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services (IPBES)
• conservation issues in Africa: bushmeat, materials extraction, deforestation, civil war, poaching

My favorite quote from this episode: "I am vibrating to elephant rumbles in a cave 160m under the ground in total darkness” [Dr. Ian Redmond, OBE]

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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In this episode, conservationist, author and founder of The Orangutan Project, Leif Cocks. 

Leif is a tireless conservationist who seems to be involved in innumerable conservation projects throughout Southeast Asia, but most notably The Orangutan Project, which he founded in 1998.

We talk about Leif’s path to conservation, which began early on with an interest in animals and nature and was formalized through his experiences in higher education and work in husbandry and small population biology at Perth Zoo. 

What really stands out in this conversation is Leif’s passion for and commitment to being a defender of the natural world and all the beings living in it. 

We get into orangutan conservation, including what he views as the pillars of successful orangutan reintroduction - physical health, mental health, social skills, and forest skills.

Leif describes how  The Orangutan Project operates, emphasizing the importance of collective action and going far beyond just orangutan conservation into preservation of entire ecosystems and supporting local human communities living therein.

He also deftly describes the real challenges involved in conserving the rainforest’s megafauna, from supporting the endearingly “bat shit crazy” folks who manage to translocate elephants to safe areas, to getting people emotionally connected to the species and ecosystems that need saving.

I really appreciated Leif’s ability to unpack the nitty gritty of running a successful conservation effort, and the efforts they’ve made to assess the progress of the various initiatives they’ve sponsored. 

We close out the conversation with some moral questions about personhood in nonhumans and the value of captivity for conservation at places like zoos.

Other topics we discuss:

• orangutans and conservation translocations
• animal culture
• ecotourism to connect people with nature
• Tinder meets Uber for elephant conservation!

Notable quotes from Leif:

• on orangutans - "they're self aware persons that don't belong in captivity"
• conservation needs "loving kindness and intelligent action"
• on conservation challenges - "For every complex problem in the world there’s a simple solution which is absolutely wrong”

If you want to find out more about Leif, his personal story and his work, you can find him at leifcocks.org or through The Orangutan Project website. He’s also the author of three books: Orangutans and their Battle for Survival, Orangutans: My Cousins, My Friends, and Finding Our Humanity. And check out episode #14 in season 1 of the Talking Apes podcast.

Check out his socials at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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This episode of The PrimateCast: Origins is taken from CICASP's International Primatology Lecture Series: Past, Present and Future Perspectives of the Field.

The IPLS is dedicated to providing origin stories told by experienced researchers in primatology and related fields. The lectures are conducted via Zoom within our CICASP Seminar in Science Communication for graduate students of our program at Kyoto University. We are releasing the audio from these lectures right here on The PrimateCast: Origins.

For anyone interested in viewing the video versions of these lectures, head over to the CICASP TV YouTube channel, where you can also watch them live as we stream our Zoom feeds there.

For the 21st international primatology lecture we invited  Dr. Fred Bercovitch to share his origin story with us. This lecture took place on May 10, 2023.

Fred was a professor with us in CICASP from 2010 until his retirement in March 2017. He was a key mentor for me and played a big role in helping our international program mature.

Starting his career studying primates and particularly the sexual behavior of baboons at Gilgil, Kenya, Fred's career meandered through developmental biology and reproductive neuroendocrinology of rhesus macaques at Cayo Santiago , mating behavior in Koalas in Australia, social structure of Giraffes in Zambia, and many more topics and species around the world.

Fred also forged a career integrating work at zoos and in the wilds, having spent time at San Diego Zoo's Conservation Institute. After leaving Japan, he helped launch a non-profit for giraffe conservation called Save the Giraffes, and is now a Board Member with the Anne Innis Dagg Foundation, also tackling giraffe conservation.

Two books that defined Fred's  journey were Edgar Rice Burroughs'Tarzan of the Apes and Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species. He weaves these into his life's work describing how he went from the 11 year old boy whose essay on the need to save our planet - part of which he reads in the show! - was not selected by his teachers to be read at graduation, to the renowned wildlife biologist and conservationist he is today.

Key topics that come up along the way are:

• the importance of understanding Darwin's ideas on evolution for conservation
• baboon and koala sex
• giraffe social bonds and behavior
• Listing of endangered species in IUCN's Red List of Threatened Species - and getting giraffes on it!

It was great to have Fred back in touch with us, and I'm happy to share his wise words with all of you on the podcast. For other episodes of The PrimateCast where Fred appears, check out #2 with the CICASP team and #63 with Chia Tan.

And just for kicks, check out this article about Fred in a piece titled "Someone San Diego Should Know" published in The San Diego Union-Tribune.

Enjoy!

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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This episode features a conversation with Devan Schowe, Campaigns Associate with animal advocacy and wildlife nonprofit, Born Free USA.

Born Free USA, and its parent Born Free, are charitable organizations advocating for animal welfare and compassionate conservation, with the ultimate goal of ending human exploitation of animals for any reason.

In the interview, Devan outlines the history of the organization - it has a very Hollywood origin story! - and all of the twists and turns that brought her to it. 

Devan’s profile can be found on the Born Free USA website’s About Us page. She is an experienced primate caregiver and animal welfare specialist with a master’s degree in primate conservation from Oxford Brookes University.

We talk about some of her early experiences investigating the welfare of reptiles, and then about her master’s research on the welfare of coconut harvesting pig-tailed macaques in Thailand (published in the journal Applied Animal Behavior Science). 

As Campaigns Associate, Devan is involved in many of the programs at Born Free USA, for example on the primate pet trade and the issues surrounding the fur trade in the USA. 

For more about the primate pet trade in the USA, read Born Free USA's report (Public Danger, Private Pain: The Case Against the U.S. Primate Pet Trade) and watch a documentary on Life After the Pet Trade.

Devan also talks about how people can get and have gotten involved in animal protection. To find out more, check out Born Free USA's activists toolkit.

We also get a bit into the legislation of animal protection in the US, and later talk about the ethics of animals in captivity, particularly at places like zoos which have a bit of an embattled reputation these days over whether their efforts to educate the public and conserve wildlife outweigh their struggles at times to provide quality welfare for all of their animals.
 
Other topics we cover in the interview:

•  what does the role Campaigns Associate at an animal advocacy group look like?
• tracking social engagement for animal welfare and the Tiger King effect
• Japanese macaques living in Texas!
• compassionate conservation
• leopard geckos
• and more ...

Devan is clearly passionate about animals and their conservation and welfare, and exceptionally knowledgable about animal issues in the USA. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did, and learn from it as I also did!

Note: Talking Apes released an interview in 2021 with Born Free USA Programs Director Dr. Liz Tyson-Griffin back. Consider this a great and complementary piece to learn more about their work and issues faced by animals in the USA.

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

Here's what you can do to get in touch!

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If you value the show, leave ratings and reviews wherever it is that you listen, and consider donating by clicking the "Support the Show" link above. 

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This episode of The PrimateCast: Origins is taken from CICASP's International Primatology Lecture Series: Past, Present and Future Perspectives of the Field.

The IPLS is dedicated to providing origin stories told by experienced researchers in primatology and related fields. The lectures are conducted via Zoom within our CICASP Seminar in Science Communication for graduate students of our program at Kyoto University. We are releasing the audio from these lectures right here on The PrimateCast: Origins.

For anyone interested in viewing the video versions of these lectures, head over to the CICASP TV YouTube channel, where you can also watch them live as we stream our Zoom feeds there.

For the 20th international primatology lecture, we invited Dr. Gladys Kalema-Zikusoka to join us and speak about her own origins, as a primatologist and wildlife veterinarian, the first in Uganda, and the story behind Conservation through Public Health (CPTH) and Gorilla Conservation Coffee.

The conversation was recorded on Wednesday, April 5, 2023.

In the talk, Dr. Gladys moves from describing the events in her childhood that foreshadowed her career as a conservationist and wildlife veterinarian through the development of her career and efforts to conserve the endangered mountain gorillas of Bwindi Impenetrable Forest, Uganda, largely by supporting the health of people living in the area. 

Topics covered include:

• her new memoir, Walking with Gorillas: The Journey of an African Wildlife Vet (pick up a copy!)
• being a wildlife vet for endangered gorillas and when to intervene
• ecotourism for conservation
• why health and economic stability is key to successful conservation of species
• building the African Primatological Society to support African efforts for research and conservation of African primates

Dr. Gladys also recounts how devastating the COVID-19 pandemic was ecotourism in the region, and how she and others mobilized to ensure that the local community was vaccinated and had access to personal protective equipment such as masks and  medical support so that the risk of transmission to the gorillas was minimized. 

I found these stories incredibly inspiring, and endlessly insightful. Dr. Gladys’ passion for people and nature comes out in spades, and her model for conservation is one I’d love to see adopted all over the world as it has found a way to succeed through compassion for all beings involved, human and gorilla alike. 

Enjoy!

Photo Credit: Jo Anne McArthur

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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This episode features a conversation with Dr. Tesla Monson, Assistant Professor in the Department of Anthropology at Western Washington University.

Tesla was in Japan visiting our own Dr. Susumu Tomiya to start some work with our collection of primate bones, so I asked Susumu to join us in the studio as well.

Tesla runs the Primate Evolution Lab at Western Washington University, and has conducted some fascinating research into how we can use bones and fossils and especially teeth to understand the “squishy parts” of our collective evolutionary past that don’t preserve, like the life history traits of an animal or its behavior. 

Tesla tells us about some of her discoveries about correlated or patterned evolution that link tooth characteristics with other anatomical and physiological processes and allowed her and her colleagues to hypothesize about things like life history traits and behavior that aren’t preserved in the fossil record. 

These include how dental patterns correlate with vitamin D delivery to infants in ancient populations of humans living in Arctic Beringia, or with prenatal growth rates and endocranial volume in catarrhine primates.

After hearing Tesla talk about these things I became a lot more interested in teeth myself, and what they can tell us about extinct species! But there’s a lot in this interview beyond teeth for anyone interested in evolution and the diversity of life, how scientists are often just like detectives, and just generally about being a whole person.

While discussing Tesla’s efforts in science communication, we talk about the phenomenon of imposter syndrome, which can affect anyone in any role but seems to be particularly common among academics, and especially in early career researchers. All three of us seemed to have something to say on the topic, as it’s an ongoing struggle for so many of us and any encouragement and open discussion about it may land with someone in need at the right time. 

We close by looking at her current projects on inclusion in and out of science, such as 

• her symposia in Integrative Human Evolution, geared toward early career researchers and interdisciplinarity, 
• her involvement with the Bearded Ladies, who are out there to show the world that, to quote Tesla, “You don’t have to have a beard to be a scruffy paleontologist out in the field”, 
• and her efforts to highlight the key roles played by historical women in Washington, which she calls Washington Women.

Some other things that come up in the interview  include:

• Tesla’s study about teeth, prenatal growth rates and endocranial volume
• Tesla’s coauthored study about teeth, mammary gland anatomy and vitamin D delivery
• It’s a Long Way from Amphioxus
• Tesla’s outreach programs

I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I and Susumu did!

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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“You should always collaborate with your friends!”
- Sarah Brosnan

In this episode I am really excited to be able to bring to you an interview with Dr. Sarah Brosnan, Distinguished Professor of Psychology, Philosophy and Neuroscience in the Language Research Center at Georgia State University.

Dr. Ikuma Adachi,  from Kyoto University's Center for the Evolutionary Origins of Human Behavior, also joined us for the interview.

Sarah Brosnan is probably best known for her work on inequity aversion in primates. Her early experiments published in Nature [Monkeys reject unequal pay] showed that capuchin monkeys are sensitive to what others receive for the same amount of work and reject unequal pay.

Note that the video of these experiments is absolutely delightful and should be required viewing for every student of nature, the nature of the mind, and probably bratty child out there. Check it out here: capuchin monkey fairness experiment.

In the interview, Sarah explains how inequity aversion is likely a key component of social knowledge, and likely evolved as a suite of abilities linked to prosocial behavior.

After discussing some of the nuts and bolts of experimentation and the challenges of interpretation, we move into Sarah's more recent line of research: comparative experimental economics.

What's fascinating about this work is that Sarah is testing multiple different species of primate - capuchins, macaques, chimpanzees, and humans - by setting them up with more or less identical experimental situations. 

These experiments are really allowing Sarah and her colleagues to learn the mechanical foundations of how we make decisions; and how they may be the same or very different foundations to those of other species even when the outcomes - like being able to maximize the payoff in any given game -  look exactly the same!

I learned a lot from Sarah in this interview, and had an absolute blast with this conversation! I hope you all enjoy this interview with Dr. Sarah Brosnan as much as I did.

Other topics discussed in the interview:

• “Let the monkeys show you the way” as a foundation for scientific discovery
• Maximizing interpretability through well-designed experiments … and follow-ups! 
• How widespread inequity aversion is in the animal kingdom
• Whether spite is likely among the suite of emotionally-driven behaviors available to animals
• Getting into the weeds with games for game theorists
• Being careful not to confuse cause and consequence as mechanism and outcome
• testing cognition in group settings and all the chaos that brings

One final thought. At 24:14 of the interview, Sarah mentions a 2023 paper that demonstrates that bonobos are sensitive to inequity (Paywall). The author, whose name she forgot in the moment, is Jonas Verspeek.

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

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This episode of The PrimateCast: Origins is taken from CICASP's International Primatology Lecture Series: Past, Present and Future Perspectives of the Field.

The IPLS is dedicated to providing origin stories told by experienced researchers in primatology and related fields. The lectures are conducted via Zoom within our CICASP Seminar in Science Communication for graduate students of our program at Kyoto University. We are releasing the audio from these lectures right here on The PrimateCast: Origins.

For anyone interested in viewing the video versions of these lectures, head over to the CICASP TV YouTube channel, where you can also watch them live as we stream our Zoom feeds there.

Unlike our normal format for these lectures, in which our guests normally provide us with an origin story lecture, we instead ran IPLS 18 as an interview with Distinguished Professor Emeritus Dr. Frans de Waal. Frans almost needs no introduction, but you can find out more about him through some links to Emory University here and here, and on his Wikipedia page here. 
 
The interview was conducted by Dr. Michael Huffman and yours truly, with a smattering of questions from participants, including students and postdoctoral researchers affiliated with Kyoto University’s program in primatology and wildlife science.

The conversation was recorded on Wednesday, January 18, 2023.

In the interview, we talk about:

• his book Chimpanzee Politics and communicating science and writing popular books
• English, writing and storytelling as a non-native English speaker, and extending rigorous scientific research into popular science prose
• the responsibility of scientists to communicate their findings when they relate to society and how their ideas might be coopted for certain agendas end users may have - think Konrad Lorenz falling in with eugenicists or Richard Dawkins calling us 'slaves to our genes'
• primate culture and empathy for Japanese primatology
• how our views of the pillars of primate society have evolved from competition, aggression, dominance and conflict to peacemaking, conflict resolution and cooperation
• drawing the line between anthropomorphism and anthropodenial, and what components of animal cognition and emotion overlap with those of humans
• how measuring emotions in animals is not the same thing as understanding their 'feelings', for example grief, which was asked about by an audience member
• and much, much more!

An here is that video of Frans hugging a Telenoid! It can't be missed!

Enjoy!

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

Here's what you can do to get in touch!

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This episode is all about where, how and why primates got their names!

No, we won't be talking about popular primates like Kanzi the bonobo or Pan-kun (if you're in Japan), but rather the terms we use for the common and scientific names of primates across their taxonomy.

Dr. Elaine Guevara is a Lecturer in Evolutionary Anthropology at Duke University's Trinity College of Arts & Sciences, and in 2021, she coauthored a study published in the International Journal of Primatology called “Whom do primate names honor: rethinking primate eponyms” (Open Access), along with Chloe Chen-Kraus, Casey Farmer, Katherine Meier, David P. Watts & Jane Widness.

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Eponym (noun): one for whom or which something is or is believed to be named.
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In the interview, we do a deep dive into primate names and the various contexts within which they are given. Key topics of discussion include:

• colonial roots of primate naming
• honorifics, hero worship and challenge of getting it right
• decolonizing science and having dialogues toward greater inclusivity in science and society
• Verreaux's sifaka, Geoffroy's spider monkey, Dian's tarsier and the Bemaraha woolly monkey (a.k.a. Avahi cleesei), whose epithet (species name) honors John Cleese!
• pronunciation and the challenge of Anglicization
• better ways to name as conceived by the international primatological community

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CORRECTION
At 1:00:02 of the interview Elaine notes that the term 'maias' - suggested by JM Rubis (2020) to replace the established common name orangutan - is an indigenous Malay term, when in fact it is the term used by the Iban, a group indigenous to the island of Borneo.
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For more information, and to contribute to understanding primate names and what we should do about them, explore these links!

• Primate Eponyms website - learn more about primate namesakes and contribute if information for your species is missing!
• Survey for primatologists (at all career stages!) where you can provide your thoughts on primate eponyms. CLICK HERE!
• The orang utan is not an indigenous name: knowing and naming the maias as a decolonizing epistemology (Paywall) by Jane M. Rubis (2020).
• Decolonizing the Ourang-Outang (Open Access) by Maeve Fairbanks,  Luke D. Fannin & Nathaniel J. Dominy (2022) published in the International Journal of Primatology.
• The family that built an empire of pain - The Sackler family is a notorious namesake with dark roots underlying the opioid crisis. Elaine discusses this in the context of honorifics and the injustices felt by those harmed.

Photo Credit: Elaine Guevara

The PrimateCast is hosted and produced by Andrew MacIntosh. Artwork by Chris Martin. Music by Andre Goncalves.

Here's what you can do to get in touch!

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