The Procurement Software Podcast

Tail spend is a huge, untapped opportunity that you're probably not exploiting to its full potential.

If you're following the 80/20 rule, then managing the tail isn't going to be a key priority when it comes to resource allocation.

Meaning a lot of opportunity goes to waste. Especially if headcount is being cut and procurement teams are having to deal with bigger workloads.

My guest this week is Kevin Frechette, CEO and Co-Founder of Fairmarkit, who were recently recognised by Gartner as one of their "4 Cool Vendors" in the procurement tech space.

I also recently wrote a piece for Fairmarkit's blog all about leveraging tail spend in a recession, if anyone is interested to read my thoughts there!

2:20

In light of their recognition by Gartner as one of 4 “cool vendors”, I asked Kevin what in his view makes a vendor cool.

4:44

Kevin explains how Fairmarkit came into the space of offering tail spend solutions. It’s an interesting story that shows a great example of pivoting what their initial idea was, to actually offering what the market is asking for to solve a specific challenge that kept cropping up in their discussions.

7:10

Kevin walks through the business case of why tail spend is a great untapped opportunity, and how a lot of the existing procuretech solutions were not addressing this as an opportunity.

8:20

We walk through some of the reasons why there is so much cash left on the table when it comes to tail spend and why organisations often overlook this as a valuable source of cost savings.

9:28

Is there a justification to allocate procurement resource to tail spend? If you can’t add headcount, especially under these economic circumstances, then how do you decide what to tackle and what not to? And for what you’re not tackling, what opportunity does this then offer to technology as a solution?

11:20

What actually constitutes tail spend? Is there a single definition? And what about services as well as goods?

14:13

What are the advantages of using a tech solution such as Fairmarkit vs. just leveraging other non-technical solutions such as BPO, catalogues, MRO and FM integrators and Group Purchasing Organisations?

18:16

We explore finding where the "sweet spot” is between value of purchase order and available resources in procurement teams to be able to leverage a tech solution like Fairmarkit to drive value and reduce sourcing cycle time of tail spend items. Kevin then walks through an example of how the process would then work when running a sourcing request through Fairmarkit.

20:50

Dealing with data quality and how Fairmarkit can manage non-perfect descriptions of what requisitioners are trying to source. Kevin explains how machine learning will improve the ability to work with imperfect data as the amount of requisitions Fairmarkit processes continues to increase.

26:26

We discuss Fairmarkit’s strategy of moving beyond just tail spend to offer a more end-to-end solution, and what the driving factors behind it were.

28:02

Kevin explains the concept of “intelligent sourcing”, and how data and automation can be leveraged to streamline and optimise the sourcing process.

30:32

Are clients using the productivity gains achieved through using the tool to redeploy FTEs onto more strategic procurement activity? Or are they just using the benefits to reduce procurement headcount?

34:01

A final example given by Kevin focuses on the concept of sourcing smarter.

Kevin's LinkedIn profile

Fairmarkit website

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Buying smart, and measuring total value rather than just price, is a popular concept right now. And for good reason, given the supply chain fragilities that the Covid-19 pandemic has laid bare.

Nonetheless, the automotive industry is one that's renowned for being particularly cutthroat in its often combative relationships with suppliers.

My guest on today's show, Dr. Gisela Linge, is a strategy consultant who has over 10 years of experience in the automotive industry. So, it's all the more relevant to talk to someone with her experience about how sourcing smart and collaborating with innovative startups can move the needle.

We discuss how some of the process and regulatory roadblocks can be removed to ensure procurement and R&D are able to work with the most innovative companies in the space without having their hands tied by impossible T&Cs, bureaucracy and book-length contracts.

2:09

I ask Gisela for a short intro of how she got into the space of strategy, specifically in procurement

5:18

Buying smart rather than buying cheap - how does it work in an industry that is as cutthroat as the automotive sector?

8:21

Do large organisations such as OEMs and Tier 1s actually have the self-awareness to see the opportunities of how they can benefit from working with startups, or do they require external help from consultancies to understand the lay of the land?

13:07

Will we as time goes on see a more open interface between ERP systems and individual apps offering specific solutions that can integrate with them?

15:27

We look at examples of where companies do have a strategy of working with smaller and more innovative startups, but can often become unstuck with the usual big company compliance and legal bureaucracy. This can prevent startups from getting a foothold into these organisations as vendors, so we look at how this could play out and what needs to change, including an example of how Gisela overcame this in a previous position she held.

19:20

We touch on one of my favourite topics - I promise I didn’t lead the conversation this way(!) - of pragmatism over rigid process and how there must be more flexibility within legal and internal audit departments to make these collaborations a success.

21:58

I ask Gisela her experiences of being able to convince legal colleagues to be more pragmatic, in the quest of being able to work with startups who don’t have the bandwidth to sign up to standard large corporation T&Cs and contractual requirements.

23:46

Exploring the opportunity of using risk management software to assess risk level of working with a specific vendor, and how this can be used to procurement’s advantage in preparing the business case to gain buy-in from Legal or any other sceptical internal business partners.

24:47

I ask Gisela for a tip for buyers who are struggling to get their stakeholders to agree to working with smaller startups to drive innovation.

Gisela's LinkedIn profile

Strategy Meets Reality website

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Expenses for items such as individual company mobile phone usage, printing and copaying is typically billed centrally against a centrally negotiated contract. The costs incurred, however, are often both a mystery and black hole of unaudited, unchecked invoices.

They needn't be.

All organisations can access individual employee expense data if they so wish. The reality is that few of them do. Which is really a lost opportunity, when you consider all of the anomalies, discrepancies and consumption-driven cost reduction which can be attained here through just having the right data.

My guest this week, Anthony Devine, explains how organisations can, through the power of well presented data and a culture of transparency, use this data to drive awareness of cost and usage, and make a serious dent into the overall spend on these services.

2:50

Anthony tells a fascinating story of how he discovered this was a problem from a very different original career path he had been on.

4:45

What does Finfo define as indirect employee expenses for the purpose of what the tool can track?

6:31

How can these expenses be broken down to show what each employee or username is consuming? What are the means and mechanisms used to be able to get hold of the data and present it in an easily understandable format?

8:59

What is preventing the client from accessing this data themselves? Anthony’s answer is surprising in that the barriers to entry are relatively low but the penetration rate of clients actually requesting this data natively is very low.

11:08

I ask Anthony how they are able to fulfil the data privacy requirements of GDPR, and what data they are actually able to legally display within their own organisation.

14:47

Anthony walks us through how Finfo onboards a new client, and how they go about giving them visibility of the data which could generate an easy return on investment with regard to going after the low hanging fruit.

18:14

The savings figure in Year 1 that Anthony alludes to is an eye-popping number you won’t want to miss if you’re an IT or telecoms procurement professional!

21:41

Beyond year 1, how does Finfo manage to deliver value beyond implementing the initial quick wins?

23:01

How procurement category managers can benefit from a third party provider (such as Finfo) as a means to having better knowledge of their competitive position with regard to their contract terms with telecomms and printer/copier suppliers.

26:05

I ask Anthony to give me the elevator pitch of how Procurement Managers should be positioning this to persuade budget holders to invest in tools to assist with cost transparency

Anthony's LinkedIn profile

finfo website

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Larger organisations tend to use enterprise level ERP systems such as SAP and Oracle, neither of which are particularly user-friendly. In fact, the average person who only uses them to request, approve or receive goods and services will usually find them cumbersome to the point that they find ways around them.

Organisations typically react to this by offering solutions such as punch-out catalogues and P-cards, or even third-party integrators and BPO to deal with tail spend.

Smaller and medium-sized organisations either don't have an ERP system (particularly for rapidly scaling startups), or they have a sales / accounts-oriented solution like Xero, Sage or Netsuite.

In all of these situations, there isn't really much opportunity to have visibility of requisition and order tracking, as well as what is being spent against which budget in a format easily visible to users and budget holders.

My guest this week is the CEO of Canadian scale-up Procurify, who are making waves through their super user-friendly P2P software which facilitates a more visible "spend culture" in organisations through its smartphone app first technology and easy to user interface.

2:14

Aman begins the interview by walking us through what he views as being a good corporate spend culture, and examples of where it can easily go wrong.

5:47

We explore the differences between a healthy corporate culture of spend transparency vs. a more controlling, top-down approach of strict spend control, and how the former can result in a much more autonomy and less bureaucracy.

9:35

Uncontrolled spend vs. transparent spend - what is the difference and what can cause the former vs. the latter?

16:00

We look into two examples: A rapidly growing company that has no ERP system vs. a well-established organisation that has a legacy ERP system in place that does not really cater well to procurement's needs. I ask Aman how Procurify's system can drive benefits and what time savings this typically provides.

22:18

What to do if you already have an existing, legacy ERP system in place? If this has a finance module, what options are there to use a P2P system such as Procurify that has been designed with procurement in mind when there is still a need to use legacy systems for accounts and invoice processing?

25:56

Simple P2P functions such as approvals of requisitions and POs and performing goods receipts have only fairly recently become commonplace via mobile app, whereas travel & expense software has had functionality to submit reports in an app for years. I ask for Aman's thoughts around why this has taken so long to catch up.

29:27

How Aman sees Procurify's product as just a tool which can help as an enabler of how organisations can succeed through company culture and mindset.

Procurify website

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While many solutions providers in the procuretech space have focused their efforts on automating or simplifying operational procurement, my guest this week is from a company who have used this technology to bring AI-driven benefits to the spend analysis process.

Instead of just providing a spend dashboard, Simfoni is seeking to distinguish itself from an increasingly crowded marketplace by offering spend classification, a suggested savings roadmap and risk analysis all in one.

We discuss how this can lead to faster decision making, as well as exploring some of the limitations where the procurement skills of the person managing the category will still come into play.

Just like a pilot's relationship with an aeroplane's auto-pilot capabilities, AI can do the heavy lifting, but the nuanced expertise of the procurement professional is vital.

3:10

What is AI-powered spend intellgence?

5:41

I ask Sreeram whether AI capabilities are really that advanced when it comes to classification of PO data and the ability to categorise vendors and individual POs into taxonomies or buckets of similar spend.

10:15

Can a machine or artificial intelligence perform risk analysis? Or is it more around accelerating decision making through making certain pieces of data more accessible?

13:31

We explore how using AI and machine learning can locate the most lucrative cost savings opportunities, which could vastly speed up the amount of time to come up with an expense reduction roadmap from an initial spend analysis.

15:20

Sreeram explains the concept of "should cost analysis", and how market intelligence can be utilised to project what direct materials should cost based on market price intelligence and various sources of commodity price data.

17:32

We discuss how tools like this can facilitate the ability to "hit the ground running" in a new category management position, especially in cases where Buyers and CMs don't have experience of purchasing that particular category before. Will Simfoni and similar tools enable access to more roles for experienced Category Managers with a more generalist background?

20:17

Of the 3 key pillars that Simfoni offers, I ask Sreeram his thoughts on which of them will have the most profound impact over the years to come.

24:10

I muse about some of the same topics coming up in several different interviews that I've done for the podcast and how this is very unlikely to be a coincidence! If you want to stay relevant, ensure you're aware of what these are!

Simfoni website

Sreeram's LinkedIn profile

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Preparation for negotiations has long been something that we as procurement professionals know is vitally important, but all too often we're stuck in the weeds with firefighting and process-related administrative work to do what we should be doing.

Add to this the difficulties we also face in obtaining the necessary market data.

Maybe your organisation has stopped subscribing to commodity price data channels because the subscriptions are too expensive

Or you're new to a category and you don't know how to pull this data.

Perhaps your predecessor stored the Excel spreadsheets on his/her C drive or on some far flung corner of Sharepoint that you're not aware of.

We've all been there.

Time is scarce and access to the necessary knowledge isn't always straightforward. In today's episode, I interview Kent Ledgerwood, VP of Customer Success at LevaData. They're a company who are facilitating easier access to supplier data to help buyers in their negotiation preparation, as well as more general risk management assessment activities related to sourcing and supplier management.

2:53

I start off by asking Kent whether he believes it's true that Sales typically know their customers better than Procurement knows their suppliers, and what we can do to catch up and level the playing field.

4:48

We go on to discuss how size of company may still impact overall perceived buying power. However, it no longer necessarily means better access to market intelligence and certainly doesn't mean ability to act faster.

6:43

Kent explains how there is a sweeping change of collaboration in diverse industries between buyer and customer, in order to become more innovative, maintain margins and be faster to market. Democratisation of data and the ability to open up is changing the way business is done.

8:51

Will this trend happen faster in certain industries than others?

9:59

We discuss to what extent having perfect knowledge of the market and of the supplier can assist a negotiation preparation, and why AI will still rely on the human at the other end and their ability to be able to interpret the data to facilitate them in making informed decisions.

11:26

How "big data" can give you the insights to how your organisation is performing in relation to not only the market, but also compared to other peer companies in the same industry?

13:49

What are the limitations of what a machine can provide vs. where does the human knowledge of the Commodity / Category Manager come in to complement this augmented intelligence?

16:03

How cognititve data can assist with New Product Introduction (NPI) through its analysis a Bill of Materials (BoM) to ensure that pricing can be optimised in real time in collaboration with both Engineering and Procurement.

18:23

We look into how intelligence of actual costs in the marketplace can ensure speed and effectiveness in sourcing, and how this can also avoid unsubstantiated budgets driven from financial controllers without the benefits of market insight.

21:22

Risk management is the buzzword of late, but no platform will completely eliminate all of your potential supply chain disruption. We explore the benefits as well as the limitations of this, as well as looking deeper into 2nd and 3rd tier vendors and how they can be analysed to spot potential risk.

24:54

Certain geopolitical risks are easier to predict vs. less predictable risk such as the emergence and rapid spread of Covid-19. I ask Kent to what extent good data is necessary in order to provide the necessary intelligence in the context of risk to your supply chain. His answer is surprising and unexpected...

LevaData website

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Kent's email address

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Accounts payable issues are something that we as procurement professionals shouldn't really need to get involved in but inevitably we do. In these instances, our role is usually the equivalent of a fire extinguisher. It performs no added value and very rarely do we receive any recognition for it.

So why does it land in our inbox?

Because, well, where does the buck stop when the supplier hasn't been paid or invoices have been lost? Yup, that's right. If we own the vendor relationship, then you can bet your bottom dollar that we'll hear about it when AP are underperforming.

There are lots of reasons why this happens. Broken processes, poor onboarding of new staff, reliance on sending invoices by post or email, as well as high attrition rates within AP teams can all lead to a less than optimal process.

My guest on today's show walks us through how automation can lead to productivity gains of up to 70% and redeployment of staff from administrative processes to more analytical work.

This is a great example of how developing countries have leapfrogged us in the West to come up with a truly remarkable solution, and that innovation is everywhere.

3:10

Veekshith walks through the 5 main areas that a CFO typically needs to cover off, and how Finly has contributed to automating these.

4:21

Why did Finly decide to include a procurement module? Learn how non-PO spend is much more common within Indian companies and how they were able to adapt a solution to accommodate this.

8:09

Veekshith talks about how automation can increase departmental productivity by ca. 70% and that smart companies can redelpoy the headcount saved through this to more added value tasks.

12:09

We talk about specifically the procurement modules and whether these can be used as stand-alone options without the need for ERP integration, and the pros and cons of doing this.

15:26

Because procurement teams typically don't have an IT or capex budget, persuading the business to invest in procuretech is usually a laborious and difficult task. Especially if there are no guaranteed P&L savings. I ask Veekshith his thoughts on whether selling directly to CFOs (because this is predominantly a finance tool) is easier than going through procurement. His answer is super interesting and also gives an insight into how corporate structure and governance in India is different

19:24

I ask Veekshith about his plans to conquer the US and European market and he explains some of the challenges of making this a reality. His answer was startling and was a huge eye-opener of how far behind our banking systems are in more mature markets vs. more innovative players in emerging economies.

21:58

This is a competitive space, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution. I therefore ask Veekshith as a final question what he sees as Finly's USP, especially in light of their plans to enter more competitive markets.

Finly website

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Veekshith's Twitter Account

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Although it may not seem that way as we emerge from Covid-19, the war for talent is just about to get real. The thing is, it's the war for the right talent. If you're in a fairly generic, operational procurement role then I HIGHLY recommend you listen to this episode and take ACTION before you find yourself in a role that's becoming obsolete, thanks to the unstoppable march of technology and automation.

In this episode I'm joined by experienced recruiter Martin Smith of Talent Drive, a UK based recruitment agency specialising in Procurement and Supply Chain roles.

We discuss the impact of Covid-19, immediate and longer term trends as the importance of "bums on seats" in the office from 9 to 5 every day diminishes and as technology plays an ever more important role in how procurement teams achieve their results.

4:23

Martin goes into what the market is likely to look like post-lockdown and how employers will be forced to move with the times if the marketplace for top talent stays competitive.

7:26

We explore the impact this could have on salaries and benefits, and how employees could value softer benefits going forward as access to technology and telecommuting becomes the norm.

9:11

Will salary become less important as time goes on, as employees tend to value flexibility over remuneration?

11:51

I ask Martin his thoughts about fixed-term contracts and the increase of interim managers, as companies become more savvy about having flexible resourcing to cover peaks and troughs in demand and workload on a project-specific basis.

17:26

Martin and I go (educated) crystal ball gazing into how procurement organisations of the future may look. If you’re worried about whether your skills are relevant, or if your role could become redundant or obsolete in future, this is something you REALLY need to listen to and define an action plan. A robot may be able to do your job in 10 years time. This is your wake-up call.

22:08

We discuss how operational and tactical procurement roles will likely not exist in a few years time in more progressive companies who are focused on added value and driving the business forward, rather than technocratic, process obsessed procurement teams.

23:13

I have a bit of a rant about how procurement professionals are still predominantly tied up in non-value added tasks and administrative work! Then I ask Martin about his thoughts on the biggest change in skills that employers will seek from procurement professionals as we go full speed ahead into a digital age, where soft skills and the ability to influence stakeholders will play an ever-increasing role.

27:08

We round off the interview looking at how certain roles currently not in procurement may at some point be part of the organisation, and also discuss where procurement’s reporting line is likely to be as we move more into Industry 4.0.

29:00

Finally, I ask Martin for his 3 tips of how procurement professionals can improve their relevance (and their employability) in a changing market.

Talent Drive website

Talent Talks podcast

Martin's LinkedIn profile

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Procurement has an image problem.

We're often seen as the department our stakeholders and business partners run to when they have a problem that requires an immediate reaction. We're often brought in to extinguish the fire extinguisher, but rarely to prevent them from happening.

So, how do we move from being a reactionary department seemingly in servitude to our stakeholders, to a better respected business partner that is seen as a value generator.

Part of the solution is making our contribution to the organisation better known and more visible. We're not just a department that fulfils our annual cost savings targets. We also provide a whole lot of other value that often goes unmeasured, but where individual business partners are more directly impacted.

It's here where we discuss how better awareness and communication of these initiatives, and a common mechanism to measure and track these, can make a huge difference to how procurement is perceived internally as a credible business partner.

My guest this week on the show is Pierre Laprée, CEO of Per Angusta. They're a French company who have developed and successfully implemented a tool that tracks total procurement performance in major businesses.

3:12

Pierre explains his background and how he went from Procurement Director to SaaS startup entrepreneur, by way of seeing a clear problem that needed solving and having the foresight and confidence to jump in with both feet to develop a solution!

6:17

I ask Pierre's thoughts on why procurement is often misunderstood. Whether he sees it as a lack of corporate understanding of what procurement actually does, or whether culturally it's just that we're still seen as being an administrative function.

7:43

Technology is not the solution to all problems. If the organisational structure is immature and a CFO is too blinkered to acknowledge procurement performance beyond just hard savings, there's no magic bullet.

8:42

We discuss the dangers of only measuring cost savings, and what can be done about this in terms of wider value recognition.

10:22

Pierre explains how performance tracking can be expanded to other financial and value-driven contributions that are not as obviously visible in the P&L.

12:56

There is a value bomb dropped here, around how small steps with value generation and achieving "more with less" can build trust on a longer term basis with key stakeholders.

15:10

We discuss mechanisms of how cost avoidance can be measured and recognised, and how designating and agreeing a model for this requires interdepartmental alignment right from the outset.

22:32

Is data quality imperative to get results and buy-in from using the tool? We talk about the issue of potential lack of consistency and reporting standards across different countries and business units.

26:22

Rounding off the interview, the benefits of open platforms and interconnectivity. There is much more flexibility when it comes to using best-of-breed solutions vs. a one-size-fits-all enterprise level procuretech software.

Pierre's LinkedIn profile

Per Angusta website

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We've often spoken about different software solutions and certain, specific areas of the Procurement flight deck which can be automated or digitised. Here, we're taking a step back and looking more holistically at dissecting a project from the conception, right the way through to after installation and commissioning has been completed and managing the performance of the vendor throughout the duration of the contract.

Sourcing a vendor, contracting with them, and then actually orchestrating an enterprise level digital transformation in procurement is no easy task.

My guest on this episode, Karthik Rama, who goes by the pseudonym "Procurement Doctor", has done this several times and shares his knowledge with us around what to consider when, and what the most common pitfalls are for the uninitiated.

2:15

Karthik explains his unique skill set and how this has served him well when being able to communicate with both procurement and technical / IT stakeholders.

3:00

Assuming procurement has the ownership of this initiative, then at what point should the project manager involve IT and start building relationships with the function?

4:45

How to go about understanding the marketplace. With all of the market intelligence out there, is there a still a need to do an RFI?

8:04

We discuss organisational maturity and how this is such a key factor to the success or failure of a procurement digital transformation

9:23

How to tackle the obvious problem that no buyer is likely to be an expert on this type of software, unless they're coming from an organisation which has already implemented procuretech.

11:15

The most common mistakes made during the RFP / vendor selection phase, and how to avoid making them!

14:32

Karthik shares his experiences of how open SaaS vendors are to negotiation during the contract process?

15:58

The vital importance of having an A player heading up the implementation of a digital transformation, as opposed to somebody who just has the bandwidth from a workload perspective. Karthik also shares a nugget of advice around which role specifically could be the best person to lead the implementation.

18:55

What works best in terms of mix when it comes to outsourcing certain aspects of a complex implementation to consultants, versus which functions or aspects of the project are better retained in-house?

20:57

Potential issues or watch-outs which could be lurking out there post-implementation and why hypercare period is key to ensure a successful handover.

24:33

When the project has been handed over, how does the day-to-day governance work from that point onwards? What happens when there are issues? Which ones has Karthik seen most frequently?

27:28

Typical contact periods, and pros and cons of going for shorter or longer agreements.

29:23

Karthik's LinkedIn profile

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