With an impressive background in computer science from MIT and years of experience as a site reliability engineer at Google, Dina Levitan shares how she approaches the art of problem definition, and what she’s learned about the value of subject matter expertise versus disciplined product management skills. The episode also touches on Dina’s passion for consulting, her thoughts on work-life integration as a mom and leader, and practical stories about rapidly ramping up in new industries without being a deep domain expert. 

Key takeaways from Holly’s conversation with Dina Levitan, founder and principal of Chill Labs and lead product consultant at the Product Science Group, include the importance of centering the human experience in product development, the power of diverse and empowered teams, and why evidence-based strategies can unlock innovation, even in unfamiliar territory.  

Resources 

Visit Chill Labs where Dina helps companies build products that users want. 

Explore Dina’s personal site to explore her consulting and speaking services. 

Connect with Dina on LinkedIn 

Sign up for the "Automate Yourself" Newsletter at newsletter.chillaborate.com.

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Dina Levitan:  

(00:01:31) "One of the questions I ask myself when I'm working on a product problem is how can I systematize the best practices and the issues that we're seeing here so that we can remove that problem and never have it happen again. That's one of those SRE principles that I like to keep top of mind..." - Dina Levitan

(00:05:21) "Whether it's in engineering or product management or life generally, understanding the true nature of a problem and its root causes is one of the most interesting and exciting pieces of the puzzle for me and motivates me to do my best work." - Dina Levitan 

(00:16:13) "I know that for me, one of the more fun aspects of the job is facilitating workshops and seeing how ideas from each participant build on top of each other and help us get to a clear path forward." - Dina Levitan 

Lab Notes :

Lab Note 608.1: Continuous Discovery & Delivery: Centering the human is key. 

Lab Note 608.2: Empowered Teams: Teams with diverse skillsets and perspectives foster greater understanding. 

Lab Note 606.3: Evidence-Based Product Strategy: Gathering evidence leads to sound product strategy even in areas where pre-existing expertise is limited. 

Lab Note 606.4: Building empowered teams requires both science and art. 

Lab Note 606.5: Empathy and contextual understanding remain uniquely human. 

Connect with the host, Holly Hester-Reilly: 

Website - https://www.productsciencegroup.com/ 

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/product-science-group/ 

Product Science Podcast - https://www.productsciencepodcast.com 

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@productsciencegroup 

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@productsciencegroup 

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/productsciencegroup/ 

View the transcript and the full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.  

What happens when the product science principles are applied to a conference organization?  You get Product Collective, now called Mind The Product by Pendo.io. Through events like INDUSTRY: The Product Conference, along with resources such as a member hub and over 100 hours of past conference videos, product professionals across the globe find community, learn, and improve their work.  

Rather than AI being the end-all-be-all answer, Mike hopes that AI will be used to integrate both qualitative insights from empathetic customer interactions and quantitative data. This evidence-based approach involves testing strategies through small experiments, learning from the outcomes, and aligning decisions with core values and customer outcomes for incremental growth.  

Mike also reveals insights from his experience working with Bob Moesta on jobs-to-be-done interviews, highlighting the value of going deep in customer research to uncover valuable insights, and in his case, understand attendees’ needs and improve the conference and/or community experience.  

Takeaways include asking deeper questions, spending more time gathering that qualitative feedback so that you can go deeper, being curiously observant of jobs-to-be-done, and finding various modalities in which to gather continuous feedback from the “friendlies” and those who are more hesitant to capture a complete picture.  

Resources 

Follow Mike Belsito on LinkedIn 

Explore the free resources and upcoming events at mindtheproduct.com 

Listen to Mike on Rocketship.fm 

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Mike Belsito 

(00:06:52) "The job that people hire your product for, you know, if you want to think of it, in jobs to be done context, it may not be what you think it is." - Mike Belsito 

(00:21:29) "Qualitative data is data. So being data driven doesn't mean that we're relying only on the reports and the analytics. It's not an either or. It's not quantitative versus qualitative. It's using them both together." - Mike Belsito 

(00:28:15) "It's not just what you've learned, but it's these relationships that are a real value to you." - Mike Belsito 

Lab Notes 

Lab Note 607.1: Depth is where you find Differentiation. 

Lab Note 607.2: Start with observation of the jobs-to-be-done. Lab Note 607.3: Use different modalities to get feedback from a range of people. 

Andrew Breen, CEO of Prints of Love and Partner at Buy Build Fund, a seasoned entrepreneur and educator, believes in the power of observing user interactions to uncover the subconscious value people place on products, thereby driving strategic decisions beyond mere spreadsheet analysis. His experience reflects advocacy for addressing often-overlooked value risk and emphasizes the necessity of understanding both emotional and social values in product management. By challenging assumptions and focusing on customer needs, he highlights the importance of understanding both functional and emotional aspects of products, demonstrating how emotional benefits can strongly appeal to consumers and influence behavior. 

Resources 

Visit Buy Build Fund where Andy partners with investors and business owners 

Explore Prints of Love, where he serves as Board Member & CEO 

Connect with Andrew Breen on LinkedIn 

Follow Andy Breen on X  

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Andy Breen:  

(00:05:57) "It's not about the technology. Just because you build it, they will not come. And you really do need to be solving problems for people and offering them something that changes them and their life and their abilities." - Andy Breen 

(00:08:57) "...these days especially every product gets about 30 seconds of consideration, you know, at the top. And so you have to have a clear value proposition." - Andy Breen 

(00:26:19) "There are a lot of stay-at-home moms or like people like engineers doing little SAS side projects and stuff that were turning into real businesses, real revenue, real profits, you know, something that's not often talked about in the venture world." - Andy Breen 

Lab Notes 

Lab Note 606.1: Too many product managers underestimate the importance of assessing value risk. 

Lab Note 606.2: Conducting value research often means holding uncomfortable tensions. Lab Note 606.3: When qualitative and quantitative are telling you the same thing, you’re on your way to product market fit. Lab Note 606.4: Continuous Product Discovery has been useful since the 90’s, even if it looks different today.  Lab Note 606.5: Deciding which customer use cases to replace with AI requires evidence-based product strategy. 

View the transcript and the full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.  

Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

Ha Nguyen, a seasoned Silicon Valley product leader, then co-founding partner at Spero Ventures, Chief Experiences Officer at Swimply, and now Managing Partner at NextStep, a fractional & advisory COO consulting firm, shares her perspective, lessons learned, and journey through the ranks with us today.  

Ha's journey underscores the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and leveraging networks in navigating a product management career. She highlights the significance of being proactive, driving outcomes, and having the courage to ask for opportunities and support from leadership. Ha's experience showcases how excelling in one's function, seeking opportunities for growth and expansion, and being ready to pivot when necessary can lead to transformative career shifts, such as her transition from a VP of Product role to venture capital. 

Continuous product discovery is proven critical through Ha’s story, even as companies scale, emphasizing the need to maintain customer contact and understanding throughout growth phases. Ha Nguyen's advice on driving impact, seeking expanded responsibilities, and being willing to walk away when opportunities for growth are limited resonates with the team at Product Science Group. By prioritizing personal growth, seeking supportive environments, and proactively shaping their career paths, product developers and leaders can make strategic decisions that propel their careers and products forward. 

Resource Links: 

Follow Ha Nguyen on LinkedIn 

Visit NextStepFwd, Ha’s Consulting website 

Join the NextStep Substack 

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Ha Nguyen: 

(00:05:45) "I felt like I was ready to sort of increase my scope and my impact, albeit at a smaller company. However, I really wanted to have more influence over the direction of the company, not just the direction of our products." - Ha Nguyen 

(00:09:39) "Be incredibly good at what you do. Startups give you the opportunity to have expanded scope, work for a great boss who's supportive of your career. Don't be afraid to ask. And then finally, if. If they're not going to support you and what you need, then you might need to make the decision to walk." - Ha Nguyen 

(00:28:47) "When you build the network and people have seen that you have been putting the hours in to build what I call the labor of love projects, it, it's just easier because when you need to reach out to folks for anything they want to help you, they'll pick up the phone and they'll help you." - Ha Nguyen 

Lab Notes:  

Lab Note 605.1: As a company grows, you must intentionally create structure for continuous product discovery. (00:31:46) 

Lab Note 605.2: Raise your hand to access new opportunities. (00:33:03) 

Lab Note 605.3: There are varied perspectives on work-life balance and startup life. (00:34:07) 

Lab Note 605.4: Fractional product work is a great fit for creative people who thrive in ambiguity, but it’s not accessible or right for everyone. (00:36:38) Lab Note 605.5: Invest in your network throughout your career and it will pay dividends. (00:40:27) 

View the transcript and the ⁠full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.⁠

Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

How do CPOs balance keep teams engaged in meaningful work while building a product strategy from scratch?

Stephanie Leue, Chief Product Officer at Doodle at the time of this recording, shares how she integrates customer feedback, collaboration with internal teams, and data-driven insights to inform strategic decisions, underscoring the value of communication and using various artifacts to convey the product strategy effectively across the organization. 

By engaging in discovery while leveraging foundational work, teams can build trust and demonstrate progress to stakeholders. Stephanie’s experience as a seasoned product leader in B2B SaaS, along with her focus on leadership coaching and diversity and inclusion, underscores the critical role of experienced product leaders in making the craft of product management appear seamless.  

Overall, her approach emphasizes the iterative nature of product strategy development, de-risking bets with data and discovery, and fostering collaboration and trust within teams to drive meaningful progress and innovation in product development. 

Resource Links 

Visit Stephanie’s webpage 

Follow Stephanie Leue’s Substack 

Follow Stephanie Leue on LinkedIn 

Visit the Doodle website 

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Stephanie Leue:

"We just don't want to build one feature after another. We want to have kind of a bigger picture in mind and we want to achieve that bigger version of what we are today, right?" 

“If you show them 1 minute 20 about the future of a product, they immediately have 20,000 things that will never work out. And they have 20,000 questions and like tons of ideas why things will take way longer than expected. But to be honest, that's exactly the discussion you want to have, right?”  

“We needed to train ourselves to ask the right questions. We needed to get answers to these questions. We needed to understand the data we got. We needed to compose a picture out of that data. So that takes a while because that's like a team effort.”

Lab Notes 

Lab Note 604.1: Experienced product leaders make the craft of product management look easy 

Lab Note 604.2: Strategy is a series of bets that can make even the CPO uncomfortable 

Lab Note 604.3: Use different communication approaches for different audiences of your product strategy

Lab Note 604.4: Find foundational alignment and begin executing while you are developing your bigger product strategy 

Ready to elevate your product leadership game? Dive deep into practical solutions for real-world product challenges. Register now: https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services 

View the transcript and the ⁠full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.⁠

Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

Product management is a complex and multifaceted role that requires a delicate balance of strategy, organization, and communication. In order to effectively manage products from ideation to launch and beyond, product managers need the right tools at their disposal. This is where product management tools come into play.  

Hubert Palan, the founder and CEO of Productboard, is a key figure in the evolution of product management tools, drawing from his extensive background as an engineer turned product manager. He recognized the pressing need for a dedicated platform that addresses the unique challenges faced by product managers, emphasizing customer-centricity and segmentation, a perspective shaped by his studies under Steve Blank at UC Berkeley.  

Traditional tools like Jira and Asana, according to Palan, often fall short in catering to the nuanced needs of product management, prompting the creation of Productboard to fill this gap, which now serves over 6,000 clients including major players like Zoom and JPMorgan Chase.

By leveraging visual communication tools and focusing on customer segmentation, Palan believes product managers can better understand and cater to their target audience, ultimately driving product success and organizational growth. 

Resource Links 

Follow Hubert Palan on LinkedIn 

Follow Hubert Palan on X (formerly Twitter) 

Explore Productboard 

Learn about Steve Blank’s Lean Startup philosophy 

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops 

Quotes from Hubert Palan: 

“Because at the end of the day you have to make a decision. Do I add another use case? Do I satisfy a new need, Do I expand the set of capabilities that my product has or do I double down on what the use case that I already have, but make them better or improve the usability? And that's every day.” Hubert Palan (18:06) 

“Frequently Personas are more like a design user Personas as opposed to Persona representing the business market segments that product managers need to think about. Because at the end of the day it needs to be a viable business, not just a product that satisfies needs of a specific user.” - Hubert Palan (21:16) 

“It's challenging and there's no shortcut, unfortunately. I mean, you have to do the workshops, you have to communicate frequently. You need to do the AMA sessions, you need to have the big 10-page document and then a summary of it. And it's constant communication, constant coordination.” - Hubert Palan (31:54) 

Lab Notes 

Lab Note 603.1: Roadmaps are a conversation, not a one-way document. 

Lab Note 603.2: Tools like roadmaps, customer interview snapshots, ideal customer profiles, competitive landscapes, and journey maps help leaders share context and set direction. 

Lab Note 603.3: For more valuable personas, enrich them with data and an understanding of both behavior and business opportunities. 

Lab Note 603.4: Find simple questions to identify who is best suited to get value from your product. 

Ready to elevate your product leadership game? Dive deep into practical solutions for real-world product challenges. Register now: productsciencegroup.com/services 

View the transcript and the ⁠full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.⁠

Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

Key aspects of product development, such as recognizing a true market opportunity, structuring teams for new market pursuits, and proving ROI when launching a new product are unpacked in this episode with Inessa Lurye as Holly Hester-Reilly's guest.  

Inessa Lurye, as the Senior Director of Product and head of Women's Health at Hinge Health, identified a substantial market gap and shares her journey of developing a virtual program that has now served over 30,000 women. She has held product leadership roles at venture-funded startups, government agencies, and large corporations, and holds an MBA from Harvard Business School, an MPP from the Kennedy School, and a BA from Swarthmore.  

During product development, Inessa and her team focused on fostering empathy and understanding among team members through direct customer interactions. This episode emphasizes the significance of collaboration, innovation, and customer-centric approaches in product management and development. The conversation also touches on strategies for dealing with difficult stakeholders and addressing their concerns proactively. 

Resource Links 

Follow Inessa on LinkedIn 

Visit the Hinge Health website 

Celebrate Inessa’s 2023 Product Management Leader of the Year Award 

Follow Holly on Twitter 

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Inessa:

"So initially we had a really focused, dedicated tiger team before any engineering was staffed... We were speaking [to] members or potential members, like really doing in-depth research to understand this space."

"We integrated the measurement of baseline data around pain and symptoms and specific patient reported outcomes... into our initial application to get a baseline and then into our app experience."

"We had our pelvic floor physical therapists and Hinge Health... a group of clinical specialists who are PTs that work with the product team to develop new products."

Lab Notes 

Lab Note 602.1: Great product leaders use all of the product science principles to succeed  (29:16) 

Lab Note 602.2: Include a subject matter expert on your cross-functional team for a tighter feedback loop (30:50) 

Lab Note 602.3: Evidence comes from customers, forums, and subject matter experts  (33:11) 

Lab Note 602.4: When your buyers aren’t your users, make it easy for buyers to see the outcome (34:11) 

Lab Note 602.5: Simple tools can incentivize customer touchpoints for an outsized impact (36:57) 

Lab Note: 602.6: Spend the most time on your biggest naysayers  (39:11) 

View the transcript and the full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website here.

Ready to elevate your product leadership game? Dive deep into practical solutions for real-world product challenges. Register now: https://www.productsciencegroup.com/services 

Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

Meet Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles, the dynamic duo behind the groundbreaking book “Product Operations: How Successful Companies Build Better Products at Scale.”

Melissa's expertise spans from founding Produx Labs, a product management training and consulting company, to spearheading product strategies at esteemed companies like Insight Partners, Capital One, Vanguard, and Walmart/Sam’s Club.

Meanwhile, Denise brings over a decade of product leadership experience at Condé Nast, Cision, and Understood.org to the table. Together, they have driven meaningful outcomes for various businesses through their targeted support in product operations, design, and coaching.  

Dive deeper into Melissa and Denise’s book as we explore the three principles of product operations, the responsibilities and values that come with a great product leader, and how effective product operations lead to more impactful product outcomes. 

Resource Links 

Check out Melissa and Denise’s book,  Product Operations 

Check out Melissa’s book,  Escaping the Build Trap 

Visit the Produx Labs website 

Learn more about Melissa on her website 

Follow Melissa on LinkedIn 

Learn more about Denise on her website 

Follow Denise on LinkedIn 

Follow Holly on Twitter 

Follow Holly on LinkedIn 

Visit the Product Science Group website 

Explore Product Science Workshops and Courses 

Quotes from Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles: 

• “I see this connection between continuous discovery and a team's capacity for creativity... If you have the time available to you and space has been made to think deeply about what's actually valuable to the people that you're creating things for, I think that puts you in a creative space.” - Denise Tilles 

• “Try to show people what you can do as quickly as possible so they realize the value. The more that you can achieve value for people and help them realize it, the more buy-in you're going to get.” - Melissa Perri 

• “The customer and market insights is really about aggregating all the feedback that we're hearing from our customers, from all different parts of the organization... Where do those live? And how do we make sure that people can read those studies, understand what has been asked of customers, use it to identify problems and put back into their work, and then also, where do they go to help contact customers?” - Melissa Perri 

Lab Notes 

Lab Note 601.1: Product ops ties into each of the Product Science Principles. - Holly Hester-Reilly (31:25)  

Lab Note 601.2: Centralizing product operations is worth it. - Holly Hester-Reilly (35:34) 

Lab Note 601.3: The work of product operations has been around longer than the name. - Holly Hester-Reilly (36:23) 

Lab Note 601.4: On a small, growing team, hire product ops before research ops.  - Holly Hester-Reilly (38:07) 

Lab Note 601.5: Organization of your insights goes a long way toward driving evidence-based product decisions.  -Dina Levitan (40:05) 

Lab Note 601.6: Product Operations may be an opportunity to systematically bring design in earlier in the product discovery and strategy process. - Mark Enache (43:06) 

View the Transcript and the full episode description on the Product Science Podcast website

Ready to elevate your product leadership game? Dive deep into practical solutions for real-world product challenges. Register now: productsciencegroup.com/services 

Podcast video editing & management provided by podcastabundance.com

In this mini-episode of the podcast, Holly introduces team members Dina Levitan and Mark Enache, who share some stories about working with Product Science Group clients. Holly also tells us about changes coming for Season 6 of the Product Science Podcast - video, shorter episodes, and a new Lab Notes section.
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Holly Hester-Reilly is the Founder and CEO of H2R Product Science, a product management coaching and consulting firm that teaches the principles and practices of high-growth product development, and the host of the Product Science Podcast. Holly is a former Columbia University research scientist and has spent over 15 years leading product initiatives at startups, high-growth companies, and enterprises like FalconX, MediaMath, Shutterstock, The Lean Startup Co, Unilever, Capital One, and Weight Watchers.

Holly also teaches at NYU Stern School of Business as well as public and private workshops and has spoken about building high-growth products for events such as Lean Startup Summit Europe, the Women in Product Annual Conference, ITX Product + Design Conf, Parsons School of Design, and INDUSTRY: The Product Conference.

In this episode of the Product Science Podcast, we share Season 5 excerpts as we cover the product discovery loop, a tool to break down the components of achieving product market fit.

Read the show notes to learn more: www.h2rproductscience.com/post/season-5-highlights-the-product-discovery-loop