The Productpreneur Podcast

The Productpreneur Podcast

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The Productpreneur Podcast episodes

  • 107: An Inside Look at Mabel’s Labels with Julie Cole

    Have you ever wanted to learn the behind the scenes of how Mabel’s Labels came to be?

     

    Julie Cole, one of the co-founders of Mabel’s Labels, the best-known brand of durable labels for families, joins me for this incredible conversation that gives us an inside look into their journey from concept to creation.

     

    Julie Cole is a recovered lawyer, mom of six, co-founder of Mabel’s Labels and author of Like a Mother: Birthing Businesses, Babies and a Life Beyond Labels.  She has helped her company bring their product to a worldwide market, gain media recognition and win countless awards. 

     

    Cole is a passionate entrepreneur, writer, and sought after speaker. Julie is no stranger to the media, having appeared on NBC’s The Today Show, HLN’s Raising America, Breakfast Television, The Marilyn Denis Show, CP24, among many others. Her articles have appeared in The Huffington Post, Today’s Parent, The Globe and Mail, Profit Magazine, Working Mother Magazine, and numerous websites.

     

    When she’s not juggling her busy family and professional life, Julie is an engaged community member serving on boards and volunteering. She is passionate about women’s issues, mentoring young entrepreneurs, and social justice.

     

    This episode is chock full of nuggets, including:

    • [3:05] How Mabel’s Labels started
    • [5:50] How they manage their team
    • [9:35] Launching Mabel’s Labels with partners and going into their business full time
    • [15:45] How Julie’s business mindset changed over the years
    • [19:30] Finding community to help their business grow
    • [22:40] Producing their products in Canada
    • [24:15] Navigating copycats and businesses who steal their ideas
    • [27:40] Julie’s new book and why she wrote it


    Enjoy the show!

     

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Website: www.mabelslabels.com

    About: www.mabelslabels.com/juliecole

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/juliecoleinc

    Julie’s Book: https://www.amazon.com/Like-Mother-Birthing-Businesses-Babies-ebook/dp/B09ZF237BT



    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

    Book a discovery call: https://calendly.com/ndelarzac/30min 

     

    Love the episodes?  Share this episode and give a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, use this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

     

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

     

     

     

    37 min
  • 106: Redefining Womens’ Age and Healing Pain through Cannabis Products with Shauna Levy

     

    Shauna Levy is redefining womens’ age and helping them to heal their pain through her cannabis products. She gives us an in-depth look at how her products help women, and also debunks myths around CBD and THC in products.

     

    Shauna Levy is a Canadian cultural visionary and entrepreneur. She is the founder and CEO of MADGE AND MERCER MODERN APOTHECARY, the first premium wellness brand within the cannabis space, designed for women aged 40 and older.

     

    She is the founder of the Interior Design Show (IDS), North America’s largest design fair, the Yoga Show and Conference and Expo for Design Innovation & Technology (EDIT), as well as the former President and CEO of Design Exchange (DX) in Toronto. 

     

    During her time at the helm of Design Exchange (DX), Levy partnered with international organizations including the United Nations Development Programme, governments and global brands. She has directed exhibits featuring Canadian and international designers and celebrated personalities, among them Pharrell Williams, Christian Louboutin, David Suzuki, Bruce Mau and Richard Florida. 

    This episode is chock full of nuggets, including:

    • [2:40] How Shauna got to where she is today
    • [6:30] How Shauna and her father launched the Interior Design Show
    • [8:45] Launching her new product line, Madge and Mercer
    • [12:30] How Shauna got started in developing Cannabis products
    • [16:15] Tips for pitching to potential investors
    • [25:40] Why it’s important to have THC in Cannabis products
    • [30:30] How she advertises and markets her product
    • [33:20] Getting into major retail stores


    Enjoy the show!

     

    Links mentioned in the show:

    www.madgeandmercer.com

    www.madgelove.com 

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunalevy/ 

    https://www.instagram.com/shaunalevy18/?hl=en 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shauna_A._Levy 

     

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

    Book a discovery call: https://calendly.com/ndelarzac/30min 

     

    Love the episodes?  Share this episode and give a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, use this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

     

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    44 min
  • 105: Pivoting after falling out of love with your product business with Kathy Fernandez

    Did you start your product business and have since fallen out of love with it? It’s okay to pivot and start over with something new. My guest, Kathy Fernandez, is a former client and product business owner. 

    In this episode, she shares how she fell out of love with her first product business, and how she pivoted and started a new product business that was more in line with her passion – education.


    Kathy is the founder of the Guided Teacher Planner, KEZ Education, as well as her previous product brands, the Haliburton Hoodie and Conscious Cottager. Kathy has been an educator for 20 years. She’s a mentor, course and curriculum writer, professional development presenter and facilitator and works at building teacher capacity through in-school leadership. She believes that all students are capable of learning and that teachers just need the support and resources to help them do that. She’s a lifelong learner and would be a full time student if she could!

    This episode is chock full of nuggets, including:

    • [1:50] Kathy’s journey to entrepreneurship
    • [5:30] What surprised Kathy about launching a product business that she didn’t know before
    • [6:30] Ideation, testing concepts, and the lessons she learned
    • [7:30] Shifting your brand proposition
    • [9:45] The process of changing the name of her product
    • [13:20] Switching gears and starting a new product business
    • [26:10] Getting her product on Amazon
    • [28:05] How she launched her new product business
    • [30:00] Kathy’s lightning round


    Enjoy the show!

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Website: https://www.kezedc.com/ 

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lovetolearn_kf/ 

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/lovetolearn_kf

    LinkedIn :https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathy-fernandez-59164a209/?originalSubdomain=ca

    Guided Teacher Planner: https://www.amazon.com/Guided-Teacher-Planner-Kathy-Fernandez/dp/B09WCJT4WD/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=guided+teacher+planner&qid=1649082530&s=books&sr=1-1

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

    Book a discovery call: https://calendly.com/ndelarzac/30min 

    Love the episodes?  Share this episode and give a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, use this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

     

    35 min
  • 104: Growing your product business using organic social media marketing - Charlotte Smith

    How do you grow and market your products in an organic way? We can leverage Facebook groups, other social media platforms, and email marketing. My guest, Charlotte Smith, shares how she scaled her business to 75k in sales in 2021 using these exact strategies.

    Charlotte is a mother of 3, master of chemistry, and maker of soap. She started her own journey of soap making in 2018 and hasn't stopped since. She named her business Soaps by a Chemist because she wanted her customers to know that she was making quality soaps with ingredients that could be understood by a chemist they could trust.

    This episode is chock full of nuggets, including:

    • [1:45] How Soaps By A Chemist got started
    • [3:40] The key difference that sets Charlotte’s soaps apart from the rest
    • [7:00] How Charlotte marketed her business and company at launch
    • [8:55] Tips to managing time and scaling your business
    • [10:50] How virtual events work
    • [15:40] How Charlotte uses freebies to grow her email list
    • [20:25] Strategies to get repeat sales
    • [28:10] Tips for ‘managing it all’ while running a busy household
    • [32:00] Lightning round: get to know Charlotte 


    Enjoy the show!

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Website: https://www.soapsbyachemist.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/soapsbyachemist/

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/soapsbyachemist/

    Pirate Ship: https://www.pirateship.com/ 

    Profit First by Mike Michalowicz: https://www.amazon.ca/Profit-First-Transform-Cash-Eating-Money-Making-ebook/dp/B01HCGYTH4 

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

    Book a discovery call: https://calendly.com/ndelarzac/30min 

    Love the episodes?  Sharethis episode and give a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, use this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    36 min
  • 103: Gear for Girls+Women in a World of Male-Dominated Sports - Deb North

    The best products are those that target an unmet need in the market.  I’m excited to share this episode with Deb North, founder of Yes! Athletics.

     

    Deb North is a serial entrepreneur. She has owned the successful executive search firm True North Consulting since 2011. She launched Yes! Athletics in 2020 after discovering that there were no wrestling shoes made specifically for girls.  So, like many of the entrepreneurs out there, she launched a product because she couldn’t find anything to meet her needs.

     

    Deb is a widowed mom of 3 girls- Grace is 19, Rae is 15 and Annie is 12.

     

    This episode is chock full of nuggets, including:

    • Seeing a gap in the market and fulfilling it
    • How Deb found a private label manufacturer
    • Growing awareness of a new sports brand
    • Leveraging brand ambassadors
    • And more

    Enjoy the show!

     

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Website: www.yesathleticsusa.com

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yesathleticsusa/

     

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

    Book a discovery call: https://calendly.com/ndelarzac/30min 

     

    Love the episodes?  Consider sharing this episode and giving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, try using this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

     

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    35 min
  • 102: Leadership Lessons - on the Female Founder Friday Podcast with Lindsay White

    Have you thought of yourself as a leader?  If you’re an entrepreneur, you are by default a leader.  You lead your team,  you lead your suppliers, and you lead yourself.

    I was recently on the Female Founder Friday podcast with Lindsay White who is a Leadership coach.  We had an interesting conversation about leadership and what it means to be a leader.  I thought you might enjoy this episode so I wanted to share it on this podcast as well.

     

    We chat about:

    • When you have a really strong “why”, it fuels you 
    • Lessons I’ve learned as an entrepreneur
    • How having a ‘covid life’ crisis has unlocked entrepreneurship for some people 
    • The 3 leadership traits that are important to me, including:
      1. Having a vision bigger than what others see
      2. Taking 100% responsibility
      3.  Seeing the best in others

    And more…

    Enjoy the show!

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Female Founder Friday Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/find-your-why-with-nicole-de-larzac/id1554492119?i=1000555953806

    Lindsay White: https://highvoltageleadership.ca/

     

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

    Love the episodes?  Consider sharing this episode and giving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, try using this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    30 min
  • 101: A Financial Product to Unlock the Market for First-time Homebuyers - Alex Kjorven

    It's no secret that it's becoming more and more difficult for first-time homebuyers to enter the housing market without the help of the 'bank of mom and dad'.  Now, there is a 'product' that helps solve this challenge...

     

    It is my great honor to introduce you to Alex Kjorven, a changemaker and senior executive of a revolutionary startup called Ourboro.  

     

    We typically discuss physical products on the podcast, but Ourboro has a different type of product...the "Product" at Ourboro is using financial tools to create a new way for first-time homebuyers to break into the housing market and start creating wealth.

     

    Alex has dedicated her career toward working with enterprises and organizations that are using business tools to solve social or environmental issues. She is currently Chief Product Officer at Ourboro Inc., an investment fund purchasing homes alongside families that would otherwise not have access to homeownership.  

     

    Alex is a graduate of Rotman Commerce at the University of Toronto and holds a Masters in Environmental Science and Management from Ryerson University. She has held a number of senior management roles in various non-profit and for profit organizations. Her contributions to social and financial innovation was recently recognized by the Globe & Mail with their 2022 Report on Business Changemakers Award.

     

    Alex is also an avid artist and environmentalist, where her paintings of glaciers and frozen landscapes serve as visual time capsules of what we stand to lose in the face of climate change.

     

    This episode is chock full of nuggets, including:

    • The importance of education when launching a new concept or invention 
    • The stages of launching a financial product
    • How consumer feedback can help refine your product and messaging
    • How to scale your marketing efforts through testing and learning
    • Letting go and empowering your team as you scale

    Enjoy the show!

     

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Learn more about Ourboro and sign up to attend an info session at: https://ourboro.com/

    Real estate agents or Mortgage agents can sign up as an affiliate:  https://ourboro.com/referral-partner/

    https://www.instagram.com/ourborohq/

    https://www.instagram.com/alexkjorven.art/

     

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

     

    Love the episodes?  Consider sharing this episode and giving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, try using this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

     

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    44 min
  • 100: Celebrating 100 Episodes - top 5

    Today we’re celebrating our 100th episode and to celebrate, I wanted to share 5 clips of interviews from some of our most popular episodes.  It’s so hard to choose, as I loved every episode. 

     

    I can’t believe it’s been 100 episodes already.  It was only a seed of an idea when I started this podcast on Nov 4, 2019, and now here we are.  The podcast is in the top 5% in the world and was named the top Business podcast for women in Canada by Feedspot.

     

    I had the idea and it wouldn’t go away.  That’s usually a sign for entrepreneurs.  It’s this itch that you cannot let go of.   So I decided to go for it, but was scared…so scared about recording myself, what I’d talk about, if it would sound strange…what people would think?

     

    But I got out of my own way and out of my comfort zone.  The first few episodes were tough and cringeworthy. But guess what?  Now it’s like 2nd nature to do the episodes and I really love it.  Plus, I did get better and more natural. So that’s the lesson - if you get out of your comfort zone, eventually, you stretch to a new level and it’s all just normal.

     

    I learned how to create new content every week which takes discipline..  I don’t always feel like doing it.  That is the discipline. Doing it when you don’t feel like it or don’t feel inspired.  But I eventually got into the rhythm of doing a show each week.

     

    Thank you for being a loyal listener to the show.  The best part of doing this week after week is hearing you tell me that an episode helped you in some way.

     

    I hope we can continue to create amazing episodes for you.  Can you do us a favor?  Rate and review this episode and tell us what you love about it.  It helps the show reach more people.

     

    The episodes mentioned in this show:

    1. Episode 60: Kristi Soomer, founder and CEO of Encircled, a B-corp certified fashion company @encircled_
    2. Episode 4: Kristy Miller, founder of the Scented Market - a candle company that uses natural, sustainably-sourced ingredients 
    3. Episode 55: Suzie Yorke, Founder of Love Good Fats, one of the fastest-growing bar brands in North America @lovegoodfats
    4. Episode 3: One of my first episodes with a friend of mine and serial entrepreneur, Jackie Dinsmore
    5. Episode 46: Tonia Jahshan, founder of Steeped Tea, now known as Sipology, a multi million dollar Profit 500 company

     

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

     

    Love the episodes?  Consider sharing this episode and giving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, try using this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

     

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    28 min
  • 99: Creating a Military-Grade Bag for Moms - Jillian Coburn

    Today we meet a really interesting guest who invented a new product because she couldn’t find anything like it. You’ll hear her story of how it wasn’t as straightforward as she initially thought but it was so worthwhile in the end.

     

    Jillian Coburn is an entrepreneur, inventor, writer, outdoors-woman, and mother of three, who is passionately committed to supporting and elevating women who have nowhere to turn and living under the shadows of domestic violence.

     

    Jillian and her husband founded Mommy GoBag after discovering a need for having a stylish, military-grade bag for moms on the go. After constantly traveling with her 30-year Army veteran husband, Lonnie, and their children, for the military, she came up with the Mommy GoBag solution while at an airport dealing with her youngest child coming down with motion sickness. She wanted to give other moms the ability to be ready for any situation and look stylish at the same time while traveling. 

     

    She is also the co-owner of NOLA Prestige Electric, a women/minority based contracting company. She founded the apparel line, Reel Housewives of the Deep South, in 2014, producing one-of-a-kind American-made designs for Southern women who love the outdoors and choose “cat-fishing over catfighting!”

     

    Jillian spends her time on the lake or at home creating new books. She is a member of Texas Association Against Sexual Abuse, Entrepreneur Think Tank, and Women Warriors Collab.

     

    I’d like to share a quote from Jillian that I love:

    Because I think a lot of times as moms, we really, we, we don't value ourselves.  We devalue ourselves and we don't realize how important we are in the family unit.  And so that's where my heart truly is at, but this was something fun that I wanted to do to know that I did it right.  And so I guess this whole learning experience has showed me how powerful I am.  And that's a good feeling to know that I I'm worthy enough for anything.  I don't need to depend on anyone.  I can depend on myself and she will always show up.

     

    Such a great reminder to us all - we are worthy for anything.  You are worthy for anything.



    Links mentioned in the show:

    www.mommygobags.com

    www.instagram.com/gigijillian

    www.instagram.com/momnygobag



    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

     

    Love the episodes?  Consider sharing this episode and giving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, try using this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

     

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    40 min
  • 98: Creating Breakthrough Advertising for Your Business - Lauren Schwartz

    If you’re trying to figure out the secret sauce to breaking through with your advertising, this week’s episode is for you.  As our guest explains, you have a few seconds to grab the attention of your audience, so you’ve got to make sure your creative breaks through.

    I’d like to introduce you to Lauren Schwartz, owner and Creative Director of The Loft 325, a boutique creative studio specializing in ad creation and UGC for E-commerce, Direct to Consumer Brands.

    Lauren is a thought leader in creating profitable creative strategies for e-commerce brands; and a design professional with over 15 years of experience. Over the last 8 years, she has been working in digital marketing.

    Lauren's passions lie in creating top-performing ad creatives. She has personally led the creative strategy for top brands such as Love Wellness, APL, Colourpop, Our Place, and Leaf Shave.

    She is obsessed with design and creative strategy, and in her downtime, she enjoys teaching others her profitable creative methodology, focusing on DTC Advertising, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, and Pinterest.

    She was a speaker at the AdWorld Conference in 2020 and 2021.

    In this episode, we chat about:

    • The importance of strong creative
    • Tips to making breakthrough creative
    • Mistakes to avoid
    • Why TikTok and video should be a part of your strategy
    • How to know when to hire an agency
    • And more

    I’m sure this episode will help you create breakthrough creative.

    Links mentioned in the show:

    Website: http://theloft325.com/

    Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theloft325/

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theloft325

    LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-schwartz-07354312/

     

    Connect with Nicole de Larzac

    Join the free Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theproductpreneur/

    Website: https://nicoledelarzac.com/

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoledelarzac/

    TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nicoledelarzac

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicoledelarzac/

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolemarketer/

     

    Love the episodes?  Consider sharing this episode and giving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts.  Or if you have an Android, try using this link: RateThisPodcast.com/productpreneur Thank you in advance!  It helps other amazing people like you find the show! 

    Like the show?  Get updates on our newsletter via our website https://nicoledelarzac.com/

     

    35 min

About The Productpreneur Podcast

From the publisher's feed

Welcome to the Productpreneur Podcast where we help you launch and scale your product business. Learn from and get inspired by successful product entrepreneurs and the experts who help them. In each…