The internet used to make a simple promise: create something valuable, get discovered, and earn the visit. That promise is disappearing as Google answers questions on the results page, social platforms suppress outbound links, and AI tools summarize sources without sending them traffic.

Rand Fishkin, CEO and cofounder of SparkToro, joins Rachel Truair to ask whether adapting to this zero-click era also helps cement it. Rand explains why attribution rewards the platforms that capture demand rather than the channels that create it, what marketers should measure instead, and why falling traffic may push the industry back toward brand, creativity, and work people genuinely remember.

The question underneath it all: when every rational marketing decision sends us deeper into closed platforms, are we surviving a broken internet or helping break it?

Quotes

The zero-click playbook

"Your job is to go to the places where your audience pays attention."

When AI gives you an answer without the source

"Check for the source every time. My God, you can't trust those things."

Brand building in a zero-click world

"Brand building is about being present in people's sort of daily lives and habits."

From the conversation

• How Google Ads can take credit for demand created by a podcast, PR, content, or an event - and why that distorts the next budget decision

• Why zero-click search has accelerated since 2024 as Google, social networks, and AI tools increasingly answer without sending traffic

• What replaces traffic and attribution: finding where an audience pays attention, creating for that environment, and measuring lift and incrementality

• Why the zero-click era may revive brand building, creative risk, and the kinds of marketing that dashboards struggle to prove

• Why websites remain essential even as visits decline, and why Rand now believes "don't build your home on rented land" is outdated advice

About the guest

Rand Fishkin is CEO and cofounder of three companies: SparkToro, makers of fine audience research software, pun-filled Google Alerts alternative Alertmouse, and indie game developer Snackbar Studio.

He’s the co-author (with Amanda Natividad) of the upcoming Zero Click Marketing and 2018’s Lost and Founder. When Rand’s not working, he’s usually traveling with or cooking a fancy meal for the love of his life, bestselling author Geraldine DeRuiter.

Rand was, in a past life, the CEO/cofounder of Moz, and Inbound.org. He’s keynoted hundreds of events around the world on marketing, technology, and entrepreneurship and his research has been cited by the US DOJ, FTC, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Economist, alongside thousands of other publications.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/

We've spent nearly two decades trying to make selling easier, CRMs, automation, sequences, intent data, and now AI. So why does it feel harder than ever to actually earn a buyer's trust?

Jen Allen-Knuth, founder of DemandJen, joins Rachel Truair to explore whether sales technology was ever really built for the buyer, or whether it mostly optimized the seller's side of the interaction. Jen makes the case that “personalization” has become one of the emptiest words in sales, breaks down what actually makes a cold email work, and gives her honest read on whether the sales profession shrinks as AI takes over research and outreach.

The question underneath it all: if every piece of sales technology disappeared tomorrow, what would still make one human worth talking to?

Quotes

"I think if we continue on as we have, there is going to be a much smaller number of people that are gonna sit in a sales profession."

"Personalization has been one of the worst terms to ever come out of sales or marketing because it's not specific enough to mean anything."

"In sales, the hard work works because it's hard. Most people choose easy."

From the conversation

• Why so much of sales technology has been built to optimize the seller's side of the interaction, not the buyer's

• Why “personalization” has become one of the emptiest words in sales and marketing, and what real relevance looks like instead

• What separates a cold email that gets a reply from the hundreds that get ignored

• Whether the sales profession shrinks as AI takes over research, writing, and outreach, and where a human still earns their seat at the table

• Why customer stories are sales' most underused asset, buried in an LMS while reps lean on self-congratulatory slides

About the guest

Jen is the founder of DemandJen, a sales training and consulting company focused on helping GTM teams break through the status quo and avoid losing pipeline to buyer risk aversion. As a keynote speaker and sales trainer, she specializes in equipping sales teams selling into enterprise and mid-market with the tools to overcome customer hesitation and close more deals. Jen brings in-depth strategies to help teams confront the fear of change and risk, and she's a go-to for sales kickoffs and workshops that drive success.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/demandjen1/

New research on thousands of professionals found something leaders don't want to hear: 53% of individuals say they're already deep into using AI, while only 25% think their own organization has caught up.

Mike Kaput joins Rachel Truair to push that gap down one level, past the industry stat, into the team a leader thinks they know. Mike explains why the real barrier is uneven training rather than the tools themselves, makes the case that most knowledge workers aren't ready for the shift from chat to agentic AI, and shares the one question he'd ask any team to find out what's actually happening. The question underneath it all: how sure are you that you already know what your team would say?

Quotes

“It's less about the tool and a lot more about your approach.”

"53% of people said they're already in the advanced stages of using AI. Only 25% said the same about their own organization."

"Your average knowledge worker is pretty unprepared for the switch from chat to agentic AI."

From the conversation

• Why 53% of individuals say they're already in advanced stages of AI adoption, while only 25% think their organization is

• Why the gap comes down to uneven training and access, not a lack of desire to use AI

• What's actually different about agentic AI tools, and why most knowledge workers aren't ready for that shift

• Whether the future favors specialized, vertical AI tools or the big frontier models everyone already has

• The one question Mike recommends every leader ask their team to find out the truth about how they're using AI

About the guest

Mike Kaput is the Chief Content Officer at SmarterX and a leading voice on the application of AI in marketing and business. He is also the co-author of Marketing Artificial Intelligence and co-host of The Artificial Intelligence Show podcast.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikekaput/

About the episode

We're communicating more than ever, and AI has made producing polished language almost effortless. So why does it feel harder than ever to actually move people?

Kelly Urban, CMO at Maui Jim and formerly VP of Global Media Relations, Influencer Marketing, and Social Media at GoPro, joins Rachel Truair to explore what's actually changed in how we communicate, and why confidence, not polish, might be the real foundation of persuasion.

Kelly makes the case for going to AI last instead of first, explains why trust is harder to earn than attention even though attention gets all the anxiety, and names the one piece of leadership advice she'd erase completely. The question underneath it all: if AI can write almost anything, what's the one thing only you can say with heart?

Quotes

“Attention can be captured very quickly, but it can go away so fast.”

“I think the inflection point is are you going to AI first or are you going to AI last?”

“If you can find that magic spot of being very personally connected to your team, you will be able to lead in a way that others can't.”

From the conversation

• Why getting distribution used to be the hard part, and getting attention is now

• Whether steadiness or reinvention actually builds a stronger brand

• Going to AI first vs. going to AI last, and why it might decide whether you keep the ability to think for yourself

• What most leadership advice gets wrong about staying professionally distant from your team

• Which is harder to earn right now, trust or attention, and why that's the wrong question to answer too quickly

About the guest

Kelly Urban joined Kering Eyewear in September 2025 as the CMO of Maui Jim after serving 11+ years as a VP of Marketing at GoPro.  Urban is responsible for driving global brand strategy and expanding awareness for Maui Jim’s sun and optical collections across B2B and B2C audiences internationally. Urban is based out of Kering's Manhattan office.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellybaker1/

Unconventional thinkers. Unpopular opinions. Unfiltered conversations.

Hosted by Rachel Truair, CMO of Demandbase, The Prompt explores the questions shaping future of business, technology, work, and culture, before anyone agrees on the answers.

Follow the show. The first episode drops tomorrow.

Generative AI is not just another tool, it’s a complete shift in how decisions are made and work gets done.

In this episode of the OnBase podcast, Paul Gibson sits down with Jim Sterne, author and AI thought leader, to explore how organizations must rethink leadership, culture, and ROI in the age of generative AI. They discuss why AI moves us from deterministic systems to creative ones, why traditional ROI models fail, how leadership misalignment slows adoption, and what it really takes to embed AI into workflows without losing human judgment. If you’re navigating AI transformation in your organization, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about it.

About the Guest

Jim Sterne focuses his forty-five years in sales and marketing on using technology for marketing. He sold business computers to companies that had never owned one in the 1980s, consulted and keynoted about online marketing in the 1990s, founded a conference and a professional association around digital analytics in the 2000’s, and has lately been advising companies on the adoption of generative AI. He has written thirteen books on Internet advertising, marketing and customer service including the humorous Devil's Data Dictionary. His first book on AI was “Artificial Intelligence for Marketing: Practical Applications” (2017) and his latest is “The New Science of Customer Relationships: Delivering on the One-to-One Promise with AI” (2025).

Sterne has consulted to some of the world's largest companies; lectured at MIT, Stanford, USC, Harvard, and Oxford. Since 2002, Sterne has remained active producing the Marketing Analytics Summit and spent 20 years with the Digital Analytics Association as cofounder and Board Chair Emeritus. He was named one of the 50 most influential people in digital marketing by one of the UK's premier interactive marketing magazines and was included in a list of the Top 25 Hot Speakers by the National Speakers Association. Sterne is on the Advisory Board of a variety of startups, has served on the Boards of his local library foundation and the Better Business Bureau, and the Editorial Board of the Applied Marketing Analytics peer-reviewed journal. His current passion is leveraging generative AI as a catalyst for innovation as seen in his TEDx talk.

Connect with Jim.

ABM isn’t a campaign. It’s a behavioral listening system.

In this episode of the OnBase Podcast, Chris Moody sits down with Radoj Glisik, SVP of Digital Strategy & Design at Altudo, to explore how account-based marketing evolves when you combine behavioral psychology, customer experience design, and modern data infrastructure.

They unpack evaluation patterns, buying group detection, why intent data alone fails, how to structure a marketing data lake, and why ungating content improves outcomes. You’ll also learn how GA4, DXPs, and personalization engines work together to create meaningful account-level engagement.

If you’re serious about scaling ABM beyond campaigns and building a system that sales actually trusts, this conversation is essential.

About the Guest

Radoj Glisik is a battle-tested CX, branding, marketing, and content strategy executive. He has delivered significant results in market research, new market entry, digital product strategy, information architecture, advertising, operational and process design, customer experience, and user testing. Radoj specializes in advanced personalization using behavioural psychology and the JTBD framework.

Connect with Radoj.

AI is everywhere in B2B marketing. But most teams are still working with disconnected tools and fragmented data.

In this episode of the OnBase podcast, Chris Moody sits down with Dan Rosenberg, co-founder of Octane11, to explore why composable B2B marketing is the foundation for real AI-driven growth. They unpack the myth that ABM is dead, why monolithic marketing clouds fall short, and how connected account-level data allows AI to replace outdated attribution models.

Dan shares practical insights on building modular stacks, orchestrating buying groups, scaling multi-channel campaigns, and letting AI interpret what is actually driving pipeline and revenue.

If you want to move beyond dashboards and truly connect marketing to outcomes, this episode is for you.

About the Guest

Dan Rosenberg is a thought leader and frequent speaker on B2B data, marketing analytics, and the evolution of modern martech. He’s the Founder and CEO of Octane11, an AI-powered, multi-channel analytics platform built for agencies and enterprise B2B marketers. Previously, Dan served as Chief Strategy Officer and CMO at MediaMath and has held senior operating and investing roles across adtech, martech, private equity, and venture capital. He’s a graduate of Harvard College and Harvard Business School and lives in New York City.

Connect with Dan.

AI won’t fix your go-to-market if your operating system is broken.

In this episode of the OnBase Podcast, Chris Moody sits down with Yas Dalkilic, head of AI at RAB2B, to explore why adding AI to legacy workflows rarely drives meaningful results. Instead of chasing tools, Yas rebuilt her agency’s foundation, redesigning people, process, platform, and proof to create a truly AI-fluent organization.

They discuss why AI belongs in the handoffs, how to build a shared “common brain” across teams, how buying group intelligence changes with behavioral signals, and why human judgment matters more in an AI-driven world.

If you’re ready to move from AI curiosity to AI transformation, this episode is your roadmap.

About the Guest

Yasemin Dalkilic is the Head of AI at RAB2B, where she helps the agency and its clients turn complex marketing challenges into practical, measurable systems. With a background in mathematics and programming, she cuts through AI hype to focus on clarity, execution, and what works now, prototyping, testing, and iterating until workflows drive faster decisions and real outcomes. Her guiding belief is that progress beats demos and process beats theater.

Before her work in AI and technology, Yasemin was a world-record-holding freediver. Training to dive hundreds of feet in a single breath taught her how to stay calm under extreme pressure and approach the most complex problems with discipline and intent, a mindset she brings to leading AI transformation today.

Connect with Yasemin.

Great creative does not fail because of ideas. It fails because of operations.

In this episode of the OnBase podcast, Chris Moody sits down with Michael Miller, founder and head of creative at Consigliere, to explore why modern CMOs must think like architects of complex marketing systems. They unpack the hidden operational bottlenecks that sabotage performance, why agencies often get blamed unfairly, and how outdated marketing models are slowing teams down.

Michael also shares a pragmatic view on AI: use it to buy back time, streamline process, and visualize ideas, not to replace creativity. If you are leading marketing in a performance-driven environment and trying to protect brand and creative quality, this episode offers a blueprint for doing both.

About Michael Miller

Michael Miller has built an impressive track record over his 20+ year career, developing award winning creative and digital experiences for some of the world’s top companies including Delta Airlines, Jeep, Citi, Adobe, Southwest Airlines, Apple, Lucasfilm, AT&T, Nike and Etihad Airways.

Prior to founding Consiglieri, Miller was the Vice President of Marketing at T-Mobile where he founded their internal agency & TMO studios, and led the modernization of the brand’s marketing, creative and digital operation. Miller also architected T-Mobile’s industry leading social organization.

Miller was the SVP Executive Creative Director at Publicis | Razorfish for 12 years prior, leading global, digital transformation for some of the largest brands in the world.

Connect with Michael.