The Proof Point

The TL;DR
Struggling to prove marketing’s impact?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence), Pranav Piyush (Paramark), Megan Boone (Redis), and Jason Widup (Fractional CMO) share their approaches for setting goals, measuring success, and getting leadership buy-in for strategies that aren’t always quantifiable. Find out how they strike the right balance between short-term wins and long-term growth.

What’s working in B2B marketing:
TRUST YOUR JUDGMENT, NOT JUST THE NUMBERS
Not every successful tactic can be neatly measured. Combining data with sound judgment builds the confidence needed for leadership buy-in.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:
OVER-RELIANCE ON METRICS
Focusing too much on data can miss the bigger picture. Not every effective strategy shows immediate returns, but building trust with leadership allows room for tactics that take longer to pay off.

The key takeaways:
1. Internal communication goes beyond sharing wins: It’s not just about delivering visible results. Consistent updates ensure leadership understands the marketing team’s ongoing efforts, even when the impact isn’t immediately obvious.
2. Growth isn’t just about the numbers: A successful strategy balances measurable goals with flexible initiatives. Both are needed to drive short-term gains and long-term progress.
3. Trust starts with early wins: Securing quick, measurable outcomes helps build the trust needed to pursue larger, more ambitious strategies that take longer to pay off.
4. Go beyond attribution with modeling: Attribution is important, but it’s not the only way to measure success. Modeling helps capture broader trends and gives a clearer picture of performance.
5. Set expectations early: This is more than hitting targets. Establishing realistic, achievable goals allows you to exceed targets and foster stronger relationships with leadership.

The things to listen for
(00:00) Intro
(01:17) The challenge of proving marketing’s impact
(02:25) Setting measurable goals vs. trusting your instincts
(05:49) Why internal marketing builds leadership trust
(09:33) Can everything be measured? 
(13:27) Using event marketing to drive pipeline
(17:28) Balancing data-driven decisions with intuition
(22:58) How small wins build momentum for your team
(29:03) Modeling success versus focusing on measurement
(36:24) Biggest mistakes and advice for new marketing leaders

The TL;DR

Struggling to show the real value of customer marketing?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence) is joined by Jane Menyo (Gong), Cache Walker (Trellix), and Leslie Barrett (Tipalti) to reveal how top B2B SaaS companies are finding proof points that matter.

What’s working in customer marketing:
THINK LIKE A CONSULTANT
Treat customer marketing as more than just a department. Act like a consultant—balance short-term wins with long-term impact by building solid relationships, both inside and outside your organization.

What’s not working in customer marketing:
LACK OF PROOF
Too many teams are operating without clear metrics. To show the real business value of customer marketing, you need data-driven results. This helps break the myth that it’s just a "feel-good" function.

Key takeaways: 

• Customer marketing goes beyond quick wins: It’s not about just driving immediate results or running feel-good advocacy programs. Think of it as a long-term, consultative approach—you're providing strategic guidance rather than just being another team member.
• Proof is everything: Real customer evidence is at the heart of credibility. In B2B, marketers are seeing the shift to data-backed customer feedback, much like how consumer reviews drive decisions in companies like Uber and Airbnb.
• Tracking engagement isn’t straightforward: It can be tricky for customer marketers to demonstrate the value they bring. Traditional metrics don’t always capture the relationship-building efforts. However, creating solid frameworks and using the right tools to track engagement helps bridge that gap.
• Scaling with creativity and AI: AI tools, like bots that learn from customer feedback and thoughtful multichannel campaigns, can streamline customer marketing. This not only saves manual effort but also leads to genuine, meaningful engagement.
• Getting executives on board: Engaging with top-level executives is one of the toughest aspects of customer marketing, but it’s vital. Identifying the right stakeholders and crafting specific initiatives for them can make all the difference.

The things to listen for:

(00:00) Intro 

(01:17) Why proof points are crucial for go-to-market teams

(02:07) Common mistakes in customer marketing

(03:01) Initial missteps in the field of marketing

(04:02) Why customer marketing is misunderstood 

(07:13) Why customer feedback is important

(09:55) Influences in customer marketing

(14:16) The challenges and pitfalls of customer marketing

(25:28) Leveraging technology and automation

(36:17) Measuring the impact and ROI of customer marketing efforts

The TL;DR

Overwhelmed by the endless debate between brand awareness and demand creation?

Mark Huber (UserEvidence), Liam Moroney (Storybook Marketing), Sydney Sloan (G2), and Sam Kuehnle (Loxo) break down the real differences and why getting it right matters more than ever.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

FALLING IN LOVE WITH THE CUSTOMER
Understanding your audience isn’t enough. The best brands are fixated on solving customer problems, which drives authentic connection and loyalty.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

CONFUSING BRAND AWARENESS WITH DEMAND CREATION
Lumping brand awareness and demand creation together is a mistake. Knowing when and how to leverage each is crucial for driving both immediate results and long-term growth.

The key takeaways

• Customer-first focus: Fall in love with solving customer problems, not just promoting your product. This approach builds trust and positions your brand as a true partner in success.
• Clear, direct messaging: Clarity beats cleverness every time. Make sure your brand message isn’t lost in jargon—be straightforward about what you offer and why it matters.
• Evidence over opinions: In a market full of noise, hard proof stands out. Use data and real-world results to back up your claims, reinforcing trust with your audience.
• Targeted demand creation: Move beyond broad brand awareness. Create targeted, meaningful demand by showing why your solution is the best choice for specific problems.
• Long-term success: Don’t get lost chasing quick wins. Focus on building lasting relationships and sustainable growth by prioritizing high-quality engagement over vanity metrics.

The things to listen for
(00:00) Intro
(01:17) Why brand awareness and demand creation aren’t the same
(04:35) Love the problem more than the product
(07:22) How customer fixation drives successful marketing strategies
(11:08) The dangers of blurring brand and demand
(14:43) Why simplicity beats cleverness in messaging
(19:12) How data-driven marketing builds trust
(22:57) Targeting your ideal customer profile with demand creation
(27:36) Long-term growth strategies vs. chasing quick wins
(31:48) The role of evidence in building a trustworthy brand
(36:54) Key insights and final thoughts from the guests

The TL;DR

Overwhelmed by the constant push to be customer-obsessed?

Mark Organ (Influitive), Jill Rowley (Salesforce), and Evan Huck (UserEvidence) dive deep into what it means to truly focus on the customer without losing sight of what’s best for your business. This episode explores the delicate balance between meeting customer demands and maintaining a healthy company culture.

What’s working in B2B SaaS:

UNDERSTANDING CUSTOMER NEEDS

Instead of simply following customer requests, deeply understand and anticipate their needs to deliver truly valuable solutions. Aligning product and service offerings with genuine customer problems can lead to innovative breakthroughs and stronger customer loyalty.

What’s not working in B2B SaaS:

BLINDLY FOLLOWING CUSTOMER DEMANDS

Prioritizing every customer request without consideration can lead to unsustainable practices and burnout. A balanced approach that also considers employee well-being and strategic business goals is essential for long-term success.

The key takeaways

• Customer Obsession with Balance: While being customer-centric is vital, it’s equally important to know when to set boundaries. Effective go-to-market strategies involve understanding and anticipating customer needs rather than blindly following every request. This balanced approach fosters a sustainable relationship with customers and ensures business health.
• Innovative Pricing Strategies: Companies that innovate in pricing and packaging often see significant growth. By aligning pricing models with customer value and needs, businesses can remove barriers to adoption and drive scale. This approach also involves transferring some cost and risk from the customer to the company, ensuring a win-win situation.
• Real Customer Stories: Integrating real customer stories and evidence into the sales process is crucial. Prospects trust peer experiences more than sales pitches, making customer evidence a powerful tool for building credibility and trust. This method enhances the buying experience and increases conversion rates.
• Employee-Centric Culture: Ensuring a healthy work environment for employees can lead to better customer experiences. By investing in employee well-being and empowerment, companies create a positive feedback loop that benefits both employees and customers.
• Strategic Customer Relationships: Not all customer feedback should be implemented. Knowing when to say no and maintaining strategic focus helps companies avoid unnecessary complexity and ensures that they deliver the most value. This approach highlights the importance of strategic decision-making in maintaining a customer-centric yet sustainable business model.

The things to listen for:

(00:00) Intro

(01:28) Understanding customer needs instead of following requests blindly

(05:49) Balancing customer demands with strategic business goals

(08:06) The impact of employee well-being on customer experience

(11:16) Innovative pricing strategies for better customer alignment

(14:56) The power of real customer stories in building trust

(19:33) Knowing when to say no to customer feedback

(23:48) Aligning product development with genuine customer problems

(33:52) The importance of strategic decision-making in B2B SaaS

(39:20) How employee-centric cultures lead to better customer outcomes

(44:25) Creating a sustainable relationship with customers through balanced approaches

The TL;DR

Feeling overwhelmed by outdated playbooks and rigid sales processes?

Kevin White (Common Room), Mac Reddin (Commsor), and Natalie Marcotullio (Navattic)—leaders in modern go-to-market strategies—dive deep into transforming your approach to align with today’s buyer expectations, leveraging cutting-edge signals, and fostering long-term relationships.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

ADOPTING A BUYER-FIRST APPROACH

Putting your buyer at the center isn’t just a trend—it’s a necessity. From understanding buyer signals to ensuring seamless experiences, aligning your sales process with buyer preferences can significantly boost engagement and conversions.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

RELYING SOLELY ON MQLs AND SHORT-TERM METRICS

Focusing only on marketing-qualified leads and short-term gains can be a pitfall. Prioritizing pipeline metrics and long-term relationship building over vanity metrics fosters sustainable growth and deeper connections with your audience.

The key takeaways

• Empathy is Essential: Truly understanding and empathizing with buyers is the cornerstone of effective go-to-market strategies. While AI may support this in the future, it can't replace the nuanced understanding human empathy provides. This approach allows sales and marketing teams to connect deeply with buyers, addressing their needs and concerns, and fostering authentic, trust-based relationships.
• Proof Over Opinions: In go-to-market efforts, tangible proof and data are far more compelling than opinions. Presenting concrete evidence and real-world results builds trust and credibility with buyers. This data-driven approach enhances marketing campaigns' persuasiveness and supports informed strategic decisions, demonstrating our commitment to honesty and transparency.
• Signal-Based Strategies: Utilizing various buyer signals, such as LinkedIn engagement, website visits, and job changes, can significantly boost marketing and sales effectiveness. By understanding and acting on these signals, companies can tailor outreach to be more personal and relevant, increasing engagement and conversion rates. This ensures we meet our audience where they are, with the right message at the right time.
• Buyer-First Approach: Aligning the sales process with buyers' preferences is crucial. By addressing their pain points and simplifying their experience, we create a seamless and enjoyable journey. This buyer-first mentality leads to better outcomes and stronger relationships, showing buyers they are understood and valued, aligning with our commitment to being a trusted guide.
• Balancing Metrics: While short-term sales metrics are important, a sole focus on them can be limiting. Prioritizing long-term relationship building and high-quality leads ensures sustainable success. By emphasizing pipeline growth and conversion rates over vanity metrics, we foster deeper connections and achieve lasting results. This balanced approach supports steady growth and adapts to evolving market conditions, reflecting our resourceful and confident approach.

The things to listen for

[00:00] Intro 
[01:28] CRM stages create an inorganic buying process; trust buyers more 
[05:49] Ownership of go-to-market varies with company maturity 
[08:06] Changes in buyer behavior and competition affect go-to-market 
[11:16] Signal-based go-to-market strategies 
[14:56] Effective signals and how to use them 
[19:33] Focus on long-term relationships, not short-term sales goals 
[23:48] Buyer-first go-to-market 
[33:52] Balance short-term results with long-term value 
[39:20] Focus on pipeline rather than vanity metrics 
[44:25] Balance quantitative and qualitative feedback

The TL;DR

Hey B2B marketers, struggling to execute on the data you collect?

Peep Laja (Wynter), Victoria Sakal (Wonder), and Ryan Sorley (Klue) join the show to talk about how to transform customer insights into strategic actions.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

OWNERSHIP & QUICK DECISION-MAKING

Ditch the committee approach. Crown a leader who can make quick decisions and see your initiatives gain speed and precision.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

BROAD RESEARCH

Casting a wide net? Stop immediately. Focus on specific customer segments for feedback, making your research purposeful and actionable.

The key takeaways

• Invest in target customer insights: Understanding specific customer segments and gathering qualitative data can significantly impact customer willingness to pay, the efficiency of your sales funnel, and overall company growth. It’s crucial for B2B marketers to dedicate time and resources to obtaining these insights through targeted research methods like surveys and interviews.
• Focus on actionable insights: Knowing the difference between data and insights is key. Data is passive, collected through tools like surveys or desk research, while insights require context and interpretation to reveal the "so what" and "now what." Marketers should aim to extract actionable insights that can directly influence decision-making and business strategy.
• Ensure clear ownership: Peep Laja emphasizes the need for a clear owner or lead for managing insights and making decisions. Decisive leadership is vital. B2B marketers should assign accountable leads to ensure that insights are transformed into actionable strategies efficiently, rather than relying on committees.
• Adopt continuous and agile research: Embrace an always-on approach to research for continuous data and strategic flexibility. "Little r" research involves ongoing, smaller-scale studies to help maintain organizational alignment and adaptability.
• Customize findings for different roles: Research isn't always a team sport—different stakeholders have varying needs and perspectives. Present findings in ways that effectively influence different stakeholders. B2B marketers should contextualize and customize insights for different audiences to drive impactful business decisions.

Resources

How to select the right research methodology: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/victoriasakal_innovation-research-askbetterquestions-activity-7212486453430300673-VJ3p?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

The things to listen for

[00:00] Intro

[02:00] The benefits of regular customer research

[04:45] The perception of research costs

[06:05] What are target customer insights?

[12:00] Desk research

[21:30] Have a clear plan to act on research insights

The TL;DR

Feeling buried under LinkedIn fluff and competitive banter?

Andy McCotter-Bicknell (Apollo), Clara Smyth (Klue), and Alex Eaton (UserEvidence)— trailblazers in the world of competitive intelligence—share their wealth of experience on gathering actionable insights, understanding your competitors' strategies, and effectively positioning your product in a crowded market.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

INVESTING IN COMPETITIVE INTELLIGENCE

Knowing your competitors isn't optional—it's critical. Whether it's crafting that killer pitch or understanding your customer's pain points, competitive intelligence is your secret weapon to closing more deals.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

ONE-SIDED COMPETITIVE FOCUS

It's not all about the rivals. Forgetting the customer while obsessing over competitors? Major faux pas. There’s a balance to strike between competitive and customer intelligence.

The key takeaways

• Invest in competitive intelligence: Understanding your competitors' strategies and positioning helps your sales and marketing teams craft more effective narratives and enables sellers to close competitive deals.
• Use comparison pages: Create and maintain detailed comparison pages that highlight your strengths over competitors. Using mutual customer feedback to populate these pages adds credibility and authenticity. Keeping accurate and truthful comparisons publicly available can influence potential buyers decisively, even if it garners pushback from competitors.
• Understand the role of customer intelligence: A strong competitive intelligence program relies on understanding customer feedback and experiences. By aligning campaigns and product offerings with actual customer needs, marketers can shape effective strategies that drive product development and enhance customer satisfaction.
• Diversify your competitive intel sources: Gather competitive intelligence from various sources, including win/loss data, internal team feedback, release notes, Gong calls, and internal Slack posts. These sources provide valuable insights into competitors’ actions, market trends, and customer sentiments, helping refine marketing strategies.
• Focus on continuous improvement and collaboration: Make the CI process iterative, with regular updates and improvements. High-quality, up-to-date "battle cards" are essential for training new salespeople and retraining experienced ones. Collaborate with other teams to ensure that competitive intelligence is accurate and actionable, aligning the whole company toward common goals.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[05:15] Defining competitive intelligence

[07:53] Competitive Intelligence’s relationship with customer marketing

[11:50] Understanding the importance of Battle Cards

[17:02] Importance of competitor awareness for revenue protection and customer retention

[22:27] Evaluating competitor strategies and customer resonance

[27:59] Beyond battle cards: Creative forms of competitive intelligence content

[32:00] Balancing competitive intelligence with customer intelligence

The TL;DR

Are you tired of battling churn and struggling to retain customers?

Today, Sy Pendergast (Goldcast), Lauren Alt Kishpaugh (Pendo), and Myles Bradwell (UserEvidence) get real about what actually causes customers to churn and break the myth that churn is just a Customer Success problem.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

COLLABORATIVE CUSTOMER SUCCESS STRATEGIES

Bridge the gap between Marketing and Customer Success. Discover how leveraging positive customer stories and refining your ICP can drastically reduce churn. Collaboration is key—unite your teams to drive real, impactful results.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

OPERATING IN SILOS

Ditch the isolated approach. It’s time to bring Marketing, Sales, and Customer Success together. When teams work in harmony, you understand customer needs better and provide value that keeps them coming back.

The key takeaways

• Align Marketing and Customer Success: Break down silos between Marketing and Customer Success to ensure a unified approach to customer retention and expansion. Collaboration drives better results and creates a better experience for the customer.
• Understand the real causes of churn: Churn isn't just a Customer Success issue. Factors like product fit, pricing, and timing play crucial roles. To minimize churn, make sure your product is the right fit at the right price and time.
• Focus on leading indicators: Regularly review leading indicators like weekly active users or assets produced to measure the effectiveness of your retention strategies. This helps identify issues early and allows for timely adjustments.
• Leverage positive customer stories: Use success stories from your current customers to build trust and credibility. Highlighting these stories can help you retain existing customers and attract new ones.
• Continuous feedback loop: Establish a continuous feedback loop between Sales, Marketing, and Customer Success. Regular communication helps identify and solve issues early, ensuring all teams are aligned and working towards common goals.

The things to listen for

[00:00] - Intro to churn and retention

[02:20] - Marketing and Customer Success misalignment issues

[08:19] - Causes of churn in the B2B SaaS world

[14:25] - Sales' role in preventing churn

[18:28] - Using Customer Success data for Marketing

[24:03] - Collaboration across departments

[31:48] - Importance of net retention rate (NRR)

[38:52] - Real-time customer feedback loop

[43:36] - Aligning Marketing with customer needs

[49:53] - The future of Marketing and Customer Success

The TL;DR

Is your homepage sending the right message?

Robert Kaminski (Fletch) didn’t think so about Calendly and respectfully called them out on LinkedIn. Jeff Hardison, Calendly’s Head of Product Marketing, defended himself in the comment section. We invited them onto the show to continue the debate.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

MATCHING YOUR HOMEPAGE TO YOUR AUDIENCE

Let's be real—your homepage isn't just prime real estate; it's the front line of your marketing battlefield. In a world where most B2B SaaS homepages look alike, the ones hitting the mark are specifically tailored to an audience and what they’re looking for.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

SELLING THE BENEFITS

Marketers and salespeople, especially in B2B SaaS, are over-indexing on this concept of selling the outcomes. While it has a lot of merit, it might not be the right message. Instead, we're putting too much emphasis on what closes the deal and forgetting about why someone came to the homepage in the first place.

The key takeaways

• Messaging for business outcomes: Move beyond product features. Focus on the tangible impact on the business.
• Homepage strategy: Don’t be misleading. Make sure your homepage communicates clearly who you’re for, and how’ll they’ll benefit.
• Balancing PLG and Sales-led motions: Balance minimalism and compelling narratives to drive freemium adoption and bigger deals.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[05:12] Creating a separate storytelling mechanism for Calendly

[13:22] Motivating stakeholders and measuring success

[20:30] Balancing product-led and sales-led marketing

[34:42] Maintaining a product-led growth strategy

[40:58] Aligning marketing message with business goals

The TL;DR

Are you sick of spinning average products into marketing magic? Do you feel like a “poo polisher” as April calls it?

Today, April Dunford (Ambient Strategy), Kyle Lacy (Jellyfish), and Marcus Andrews (Pendo.io) dive into storytelling and how to write stories your sales team will actually use.

What’s working in B2B marketing:

TAILOR-MADE, ENTHRALLING STORYTELLING

Draw in your prospects with a compelling narrative that screams relevance. Skip the generic fluff. Dive deep into the psyche of your customer. Make them the hero of your story.

What’s not working in B2B marketing:

WRITING BY COMMITTEE

Chuck out the too-many-cooks approach. Embrace a dedicated "words person." Quality trumps quantity, always. When storytelling is focused and centralized, your message not only resonates—it reverberates.

The key takeaways:

• The importance of positioning: Effective marketing starts with strong positioning. Understanding your competition, unique value proposition, and ideal customer fit are crucial for creating compelling stories and pitches.
• Tailored storytelling: Craft customized, engaging stories that resonate with your audience. Skip the generic fluff and make your prospects the heroes.
• Adaptability and regular review: To stay relevant and effective, regularly revisit and update your positioning and storytelling based on market changes, competitor actions, and customer feedback.
• Internal alignment and buy-in: Ensure alignment across your organization, especially with sales leaders. Their buy-in is crucial for successful implementation and consistency in messaging. Engage executives early in the storytelling process to secure their support.
• Measuring effectiveness: Use both quantitative metrics (conversion rates, deal sizes) and qualitative feedback (customer reactions, sales team input) to measure the effectiveness of your storytelling.

The things to listen for:

[00:00] Intro

[02:02] "Polishing the poo" in marketing

[05:23] Challenges of corporate messaging and writing by committee

[09:42] Value proposition and its importance in storytelling

[12:04] Who owns the story in B2B marketing?

[16:38] Importance of differentiated value

[19:56] Revisiting and regularly updating positioning

[24:48] Adapting messaging to market changes

[26:29] Getting internal buy-in on storytelling

[28:53] Testing and iterating on new pitches

[34:36] Aligning sales and marketing teams with effective messaging

[39:12] Measuring the effectiveness of your story