In this episode of Pulling the Threads, we sit down with biblical scholar Dr. James Tabor for a wide-ranging and provocative conversation that peels back centuries of theological tradition to uncover the historical roots of Christianity. This is a journey that dares listeners to reassess what they believe and why.

The episode begins with personal reflections. Jeramiah shares how his upbringing in a “high-control environment” fostered a deep distrust of religious authority, false prophecies, and institutional dogma. Dr. Tabor recounts his background in the Churches of Christ, a tradition rooted in restoring first-century Christianity. Early exposure to Greek and Hebrew texts eventually led him to embrace a thoroughly Jewish view of Jesus—as a Torah-observant Jew who celebrated Passover and Sukkot and never founded a new religion.

They critique how religious dogma often overrides honest analysis. Tabor’s scholarly work—particularly his involvement with the Dead Sea Scrolls—offers insight into the world of Second Temple Judaism. He explains the significance of the Qumran community, which anticipated a prophetic “Teacher of Righteousness” similar to Moses. Collaborating with Robert Eisenman, Tabor helped bring forward texts like the Messianic Apocalypse, which parallels Isaiah 61 and Luke 7—connecting ancient messianic expectations with early texts.

A major focus of the discussion is the Ebionites, a Jewish sect Tabor believes preserves the truest legacy of Jesus’s original followers. Unlike the divine Christ of Pauline Christianity, the Ebionites saw Jesus as a mortal prophet and Temple reformer. They rejected Paul as a heretic and emphasized ethical living, sometimes including veganism. Highlighting how the Ebionites’ rejection of sacrificial worship aligns with modern critiques of the Hebrew Bible’s editorial history. Tabor notes their theological overlap with the Dead Sea Scrolls—shared communal living, and apocalyptic hope.

Tabor explains how textual criticism helps strip away later redactions and recover original voices. Removing Pauline overlays from texts like 1 Peter often aligns them more closely with the theology of James. Likewise, excising Christian additions from Revelation reveals a pre-Christian apocalyptic framework. The Ebionites also believed the Hebrew scriptures were corrupted with “false pericopes” added to justify sacrifice and centralized Temple authority—echoing debates in modern scholarship over source layers in the Torah.

The episode also explores the historical tensions between Jewish followers of Jesus and Rabbinic Judaism. The Birkat HaMinim, a curse added to Jewish liturgy targeting “heretics,” marginalized groups like the Nazarenes. Tabor posits their ideas may have influenced early Islam—especially Muhammad’s initial Sabbath observance and Torah alignment. Over time, Pauline Christianity—particularly in its Marcionite and gentile-friendly form—supplanted the original Jewish Jesus movement.

In a fascinating tangent, Tabor discusses the Moses Scroll (Shapira Scroll), a Paleo-Hebrew text once dismissed as a forgery. Now reconsidered by scholars like Edan Dershowitz, the scroll could be the oldest version of Deuteronomy, offering a Torah stripped of sacrificial mandates. Tabor’s team is actively researching its authenticity.

Looking ahead, Tabor teases his forthcoming course, Christianity Before Paul, which will explore early leaders like John the Baptist, James, Peter, and Mary Magdalene as apocalyptic Jewish reformers—not church founders. His book Restoring Abrahamic Faith summarizes this worldview, and his upcoming work The Lost Mary will reframe Jesus’s mother as a central figure in the earliest Jesus movement.

The episode concludes with promises of future collaborations: deeper dives into Paul’s influence, Ebionite theology, and Dr. Tabor’s experience advising during the Waco siege. Listeners are encouraged to visit jamestabor.com and his YouTube channel for more.

Join us on Pulling the Thread for a compelling conversation with Dr. Joshua Bowen, renowned Assyriologist and author of The Atheist Handbook to the Old Testament. With expertise in Biblical Hebrew, Sumerian, Akkadian, and Ancient Near Eastern studies, Dr. Bowen brings a unique blend of scholarly precision, lived experience, and respectful skepticism.

Raised in a fundamentalist setting, Dr. Bowen’s path led from Liberty University to a Ph.D. from Johns Hopkins. His background informs a thoughtful, humble approach to the Hebrew Bible, focused not on debunking faith but understanding ancient texts in their original contexts. “Understanding these texts,” he says, “requires study of their languages and contexts—not modern assumptions.”

We explore how the Hebrew Bible was shaped by the cultural crosscurrents of the Ancient Near East, especially during the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities (8th–6th centuries BCE). These eras exposed Israelite scribes to Mesopotamian epics like Enuma Elish and The Epic of Gilgamesh, reshaping narratives and theology. Figures like Abraham emerge as products of both Canaanite and Mesopotamian cultural interplay.

Dr. Bowen examines the parallels between Genesis and earlier Mesopotamian myths—flood narratives, creation motifs, and cosmic structuring. He discusses how stories like Noah’s flood echo older Sumerian and Babylonian versions, emphasizing shared mythic structures repurposed for monotheism.

We also dive into divine assemblies: the Sumerian gods (An, Enlil, Ea, the Anunnaki) and their Ugaritic counterparts (El, Baal), which influenced biblical concepts like Elohim and the Divine Council (Psalm 82, Job 1:6). These connections reveal how Israelite scribes reimagined polytheistic frameworks within emerging Yahwism.

Dr. Bowen breaks down the JEDP (Jahwist, Elohist, Deuteronomist, Priestly) model with clarity. Differing creation accounts in Genesis? That’s not contradiction—it’s editorial layering. He explains how this model helps us understand the formation of the Torah as a product of centuries-long scribal processes, not a single authorial voice.

“The Documentary Hypothesis isn’t about dismantling faith—it’s about understanding how these texts were woven together.”

With deep linguistic insight, Dr. Bowen unpacks ancient scripts like cuneiform and shows how Hebrew, Akkadian, and Sumerian overlap. He highlights linguistic echoes in Genesis—like Tehom (the deep) and its mythic parallel Tiamat—and critiques pseudoscientific interpretations from fringe authors like Zecharia Sitchin.

Dr. Bowen advocates a respectful, informed engagement with scripture. He critiques apologetic approaches that ignore historical and linguistic context, urging listeners to appreciate the text on its own ancient terms.

Using pop culture analogies (e.g., Seinfeld's “yada yada”), he explains intertextuality—the shared phrases and motifs across cultures that shape storytelling. It’s not about copying—it’s cultural memory and adaptation. “Context is everything,” he reminds us, “whether it’s a sitcom line or a sacred text.”

This episode is a masterclass in ancient literature, theology, and language. Dr. Bowen’s scholarship, paired with the podcast’s trademark probing questions, brings the Hebrew Bible’s roots to life. Whether you’re a believer, a skeptic, or just curious, this conversation offers a deep dive into how sacred texts were formed—and why they still matter.

You’ll discover:

• Mesopotamian and Ugaritic influence on biblical stories

• How scribes shaped the Torah across centuries

• Linguistic links between Hebrew, Akkadian, and Sumerian

• The cultural impact of the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities

• The transformation from polytheism to monotheism

Keywords: Assyriology, Joshua Bowen, Hebrew Bible, Sumerian myths, Akkadian texts, Ancient Near East, Biblical Hebrew, Genesis flood narrative, Epic of Gilgamesh, Enuma Elish, Documentary Hypothesis, Billy Carson, biblical scholarship, Torah formation, Zecharia Sitchin critique

This episode promises insightful and thought-provoking discussions, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in exploring the complexities of religious beliefs and interpretations. Delving into the concept of the New Covenant and the beliefs of the Ebionites. Here's a summary of key points:

The Ebionites Strike Back: Debunking the Myths of Christian Origins: Explore the beliefs of this group who viewed Jesus as a prophet, challenging the notion of a singular "middle ground."

The New Covenant Conspiracy: Was Jesus a Fabrication?: Examine differing interpretations of the New Covenant, questioning the universality applied by Christianity and emphasizing the importance of contextual understanding.

Beyond the Stained Glass Ceiling: Dismantling Dogma: Explore how certain translations and cultural understandings can shape our interpretations of scripture. Analyzing the misinterpretations of biblical passages.

Other Discussions:

Overall, this podcast episode offers a thought-provoking discussion on the New Covenant, the Ebionites, and the complexities of interpreting religious texts and traditions.

Keywords: Ebionites, Jesus, New Covenant, biblical texts, suffering Messiah, Christian origins, Satan's nature, afterlife,

Tune in to the Pulling The Threads Podcast and join the conversation as we unravel the complexities of Messianic Judaism, and the intricate relationships between Christianity and Judaism.

This episode delves into the experiences of Jeramiah Giehl, David LeBlanc, and Richard Cortes, former leaders who converted from the Messianic movement to explore different branches of Judaism. This episode features a riveting exploration of Messianic Judaism, its interpretations, and the challenges of reconciling Christian doctrines with foundational Jewish principles.

Prepare to be challenged as we dissect:

Messianic Judaism and Jesus Interpretation Debate: Jeramiah Giehl leads a robust discussion on Messianic Judaism, highlighting its misinterpretation of Jesus's historical context and relationship with Judaism. Richard Cortes contributes insights into the concept of Mashiach in Judaism, touching on the Messianic movement's efforts to restore these beliefs.

Jewish Text Misinterpretation Discussion: Richard, David, and Jeramiah critique the misinterpretation of Jewish texts, emphasizing the need to read them in their entirety. The discussion explores inaccuracies in how Messianics interpret festivals and biblical passages, exposing problems with the Christian understanding of Jewish texts.

Messianic Beliefs and Practices Discussion: A deep conversation between David and Jeramiah unfolds, focusing on their beliefs within the Messianic community. They discuss the dangers of reducing Judaism to a personal relationship with Jesus and question the Christian interpretation of the tabernacle and its sacrifices.

Christian, Messianic Perspectives on Temple Sacrifices: David and Richard challenge assumptions about Jesus fulfilling the temple sacrificial system and highlight the misunderstood concept of atonement in Christianity. They question the claim that Jesus was a human sacrifice for personal salvation.

Bible Inconsistencies and Messianic Jewish Movement: A discussion ensues about inconsistencies within the Christian Bible and the Messianic Jewish movement. Richard emphasizes the importance of Tanakh in Judaism, and Jeramiah underlines the problematic foundation of Christianity. The participants agree on the need for enlightenment and a better understanding of history.

Keywords: Atonement, Ebionites, Hebrew Roots, Historical Jesus, Human Sacrifice, Judaism, Mashiach, Messianic, Passover, Salvation, Talmud, Tanakh, Temple, Torah, Yom Kippur,

Have you ever questioned the way your faith was presented to you? In this captivating episode of the Pulling the Threads Podcast, Ben Wagenmaker and Jeramiah tackle complex issues of faith, tradition, and personal transformation. Join them as they explore their journeys from the fervent intensity of Pentecostalism to the introspective world of Judaism.

Embark on a soul-stirring voyage as Ben Wagenmaker shares his profound spiritual journey on the Pulling the Threads Podcast. In this enlightening episode, Ben and Jeramiah delve into the complexities of faith, tradition, and personal transformation, exploring the transitions from fervent Pentecostalism to the contemplative embrace of Judaism.

Episode Highlights:

Join Ben Wagenmaker and Jeramiah Giehl on this profound journey, providing listeners with valuable insights into the diverse landscapes of faith. Whether firmly rooted or grappling with uncertainties, this episode offers a rich tapestry of experiences, fostering deeper understanding and authenticity in spiritual exploration. Don't miss this powerful odyssey - tune in to the Pulling the Threads Podcast now!

Whether you're firmly rooted in your beliefs or grappling with uncertainties, this episode offers valuable insights for anyone seeking deeper understanding and authenticity in their spiritual exploration.

Don't miss this powerful journey of faith and its transformative power. Listen to the Pulling the Threads Podcast episode now!

Have you ever questioned the authenticity of the Jesus you know? What if the roots of Christianity weren't neatly tied with a bow, but instead, a chaotic battleground of ideas? This podcast episode, "Dethroning the Mythical Jesus," ventures into these intriguing questions, challenging conventional narratives and providing an insightful glimpse into the genuine essence of Christian origins.

The speakers introduce the concept of Jesus as a "typological figurehead," proposing him as a symbolic character around whom diverse early Christian groups wove their narratives. Similarly, the role of Paul is portrayed as contested and evolving, suggesting that early Christians might not have been initially aware of Paul, and his significance grew later through political maneuvers and text redactions.

This podcast scrutinizes the Messianic perspective, offering critiques on key aspects such as presenting Jesus as a Jewish figure and attempts to find parallels between Jesus and rabbinic teachings.

The podcast then goes on to explore the "Paul within Judaism" movement, challenging traditional views and presenting Paul as a figure promoting a redefined Messianic expectation within Judaism.

The hosts then emphasize the importance of approaching discussions on Christian origins with an open mind, free from biases and preconceived notions. They delve into the influence of the Roman Empire, the Theodosian Code, and the challenges in reconstructing early Christian beliefs.

The podcast challenges the quest for the historical Jesus, advocating for a focus on the battle of ideas that shaped Christianity. It encourages listeners to question assumptions, delve into historical evidence, and consider alternative perspectives on Christian history.

In conclusion, this podcast transcript illuminates the intricate dynamics between Messianic Judaism, the Jewishness of Jesus, and the academic movement to reinterpret Paul within the Jewish tradition. Through critical examination, the speakers unravel the complex tapestry of discussions, offering a nuanced understanding of religious identity and historical interpretation. The exploration aims to reveal potential misinterpretations and deviations from historical realities, fostering a deeper comprehension of the Messianic evangelical movement's theological claims while highlighting areas of alignment or divergence from broader historical and religious contexts.

Keywords: Authenticity of Jesus, Christianity origins, Dethroning Mythical Jesus, Early Christian groups, Contested role of Paul, Political maneuvers, Text redactions, Messianic perspective, Critiques, Jewish figure portrayal, Pagan mystery godman, Rabbinic teachings, Hebraic roots, Passover and Sukkot, Theological coherence, Historical accuracy, Conversion agendas, Paul within Judaism, Mark Nanos, Paula Fredrickson, Magnus Zetterholm, Nasi of the Sanhedrin, Torah savant, Open-minded discussions, Influence of Roman Empire, Theodosian Code, Reconstructing beliefs, Scarcity of evidence, Debates on historicity, Scholarly interpretations, Roman censorship, Redaction and alterations, Messianic Judaism dynamics, Jewishness of Jesus, Historical interpretation, Deviations from realities, Messianic evangelical movement, Historical and religious contexts,

Pulling the Threads Podcast critically explores early Christianity, challenging conventional views. Hosts Jeramiah Giehl and David Leblanc question Jesus' existence and the reliability of the New Testament. They emphasize the gradual evolution of Christianity, dispelling the idea of a distinct origin. The episode delves into the diversity of first-century Judaism, suggesting Jesus' followers were Zealots seeking a violent uprising.

The destruction of the Temple and Roman influence become key factors in shaping Christianity. Giehl contends that later texts, influenced by proto-Orthodox and Orthodox factions, reflect mythmaking and polemic against rival groups. The Roman Empire's active role in shaping Christian narratives is discussed, highlighting censorship and manipulation of religious texts. Leblanc explores the impact of Greco-Roman culture and challenges the authenticity of surviving texts.

The podcast explores parallels and distinctions between Judaism and Christianity, emphasizing their unique elements. It addresses the influence of Judaism on Christianity and the chaotic development of early Christianity compared to varied early Judaism. The episode briefly touches on Messianic Judaism, leaving room for future exploration.

Listeners gain fresh perspectives on Christian origins, exploring Roman influence, Greco-Roman assimilation, and the interplay between Judaism and Christianity. The podcast prompts critical thinking about historical reconstruction challenges, censorship, and the complexity of these intertwined faiths. It invites reconsideration of established narratives and provides thought-provoking insights into the roots of a major world religion.

Keywords: Early Christianity, Critical Exploration, Jesus' Existence, New Testament Reliability, Evolution of Christianity, Diversity in First-century Judaism, Zealot Movement, Destruction of the Temple, Roman Influence, Proto-Orthodox and Orthodox Factions, Mythmaking and Polemic, Censorship of Religious Texts, Greco-Roman Culture, Authenticity of Texts, Parallels and Distinctions, Judaism's Influence on Christianity, Development of Early Christianity, Messianic Judaism, Roman Manipulation, Historical Reconstruction Challenges, Interplay Between Judaism and Christianity, Reconsidering Established Narratives, Thought-provoking Insights

In this podcast episode, David LeBlanc interviews Jeramiah, exploring his journey of questioning faith that began with doubts about Jehovah's Witness teachings. Jeramiah shares his experience with Assemblies of God and Bible college, expressing frustration with theological focus and lack of critical examination. The conversation delves into Jeramiah's exposure to different religious traditions and his involvement with a Messianic synagogue.

The narrative unfolds with conflicts within the Messianic movement, leading to a pivotal moment with Dr. Raymond Gannon that triggers Jeramiah's departure from Messianic Judaism. The episode highlights the contradictions and manipulation tactics within these movements and Jeramiah's eventual exploration of authentic Jewish spaces.

Jeramiah discusses his conversion to Judaism within the Conservative movement, emphasizing the spiritual and eclectic nature of his experience. The conversation also touches on the impact of his journey on family dynamics and the challenges of navigating mixed religious backgrounds post-divorce.

The episode concludes with Jeramiah's reflections on critical scholarship, his appreciation for the intellectual tradition within the Conservative movement, and the ongoing role of Judaism in his life.

In this episode David LeBlanc interviews Jeramiah, he notes that his questions of faith began with questioning the Jehovah's Witness teachings, particularly in relation to the New Testament. His early objections were based on inconsistencies he found within the text and the interpretations provided by the Jehovah's Witnesses. This led him to explore other religious traditions, and eventually, he found himself involved with a Christian woman who introduced him to charismatic meetings within the Assemblies of God.

Jeramiah then recounts his experience before attending Bible college. They discuss the manipulation tactics used in churches, exposing the human side behind the spiritual façade. The conversation explores the speaker's decision to attend Bible college, influenced by a pastor who encouraged them to pursue ministry. Jeramiah contrasts this supportive conversation with the conflicted discussions with his father. Jeramiah expressed frustration with the theological focus and lack of critical examination in their Bible college courses.

This podcast delves into the speaker's journey, touching on topics such as conflict, personal struggles, and exposure to critical scholarship in Old Testament survey classes. It's fascinating to explore how personal experiences and encounters with different religious perspectives can shape one's spiritual journey.