The Real Intelligence Podcast

What if the best way to stand out in an inbox full of AI is to show up as a human? Gus sits down with Abe Dearmer, CEO of Sendspark, an AI video platform owned by Xenon Partners, calling in at 5 AM from Australia.

Abe grew up playing rugby union, went into the Australian Army straight out of school, and was told on his aptitude test that he should be an officer instead of an infantry rifleman. Thirteen years later, Xenon offered him a way out. Since then he has worked at integrate.io and led the acquisitions of 5CRM and Teamgate, including steering 5CRM toward addiction recovery providers after they wrote about the product without being asked. Today he runs Sendspark with one North Star: how do we help salespeople close more deals?

Abe describes his own AI aha moment: building a powerlifting app, Iron Ledger, over a weekend and getting it onto the App Store. He talks about the "AI psychosis" that follows, why the owner has to go first, how his team keeps a human in the loop on everything that ships, and what happened when the whole Xenon portfolio paused for a week-long AI hackathon. Then he walks Gus through a live Sendspark demo, plus the automated outbound agent he built himself.

What we get into:

Rugby, the Army and building a team environment

Clear, measurable goals as a way to find people's strengths

Finding an unexpected market: 5CRM and addiction recovery

Building human connection through video before the first demo

"Be a red X in a room full of white circles"

Don't tell me, show me: using video to drive adoption

Building Iron Ledger over a weekend, and the beekeeper who built his own app

AI psychosis, session limits and feature sprawl

Why the owner has to go first: start with a problem, get a subscription, just talk to it

Human in the loop: AI never pushes to staging or production

"What did I do in AI this week?" and the portfolio-wide hackathon

Live demo: dynamic videos, AI greetings and personalized landing pages

An outbound agent that runs every week without him touching it

Timestamps

00:00 Meet Abe Dearmer

00:59 Rugby union and the love of team

03:11 Light and shadow: amplifying what works on a team

05:51 The Army, the aptitude test and becoming an officer

08:08 From the military to Xenon

08:46 integrate.io, 5CRM and Teamgate

11:55 What Sendspark does

15:02 Video as trust before the first call

19:21 Using Sendspark to drive client engagement

23:22 People's favorite word is their first name

24:28 Abe's AI aha moment: Iron Ledger

29:14 When the AI clone beats the source video

30:52 Analog, digital, agentic: does the owner have to go first?

36:15 AI psychosis and feature sprawl

41:32 Resistance, safety and the $500K API bill

43:38 Human in the loop on every release

45:32 "What did I do in AI this week?" and the hackathon

48:44 People are naturally creative

50:39 Live Sendspark demo

60:17 A/B testing video vs. no video

61:41 Abe's automated outbound agent

65:34 Remember, forget, succeed, fail: implementation and mastery

About the guest

Abe Dearmer is the CEO of Sendspark, an AI video platform owned by Xenon Partners. A 13-year Australian Army veteran, he has led software companies through acquisition, stabilization and handoff across the Xenon portfolio, including integrate.io, 5CRM and Teamgate.

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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What happens when everyone in your company is already using AI and nobody has written down the rules? I sit down with Richard Schreiber, who has been in legal operations since 1983 and spent 25 years leading major technology overhauls for law firms. Today he helps leaders use AI safely and ethically without losing what makes their work human.

Richard founded Law Firm AI Expert and Secure Justice AI. He is the author of four books, a journalist, co-host of the weekly True Journalism podcast, and a longtime autism advocate whose work was inspired by his daughter. We are both New Yorkers and both parents of kids on the spectrum.

He lays out the AI governance landscape: no federal AI law, a patchwork of state laws, more than 1,400 court cases with AI hallucinations in the last year alone, and why AI is not like software. He explains why governance has to come before rollout, why "people confuse speed with accuracy," and why quantum computing makes harvested data a risk today. Then we talk about young people's resistance to AI, AI stewardship, AI for good in the autism community, and the first thing any firm should do this month.

What we get into:

Why AI is moving faster than its guardrails

No federal AI law and a quilt of state rules

Open-source models, containerized

AI hygiene and the epidemic of hallucinations in court

The gap between employees using AI and firms with SOPs and training

Agents that escape their sandbox, and why governance comes first

Quantum computing and "harvest now, decrypt later"

Chat, skills, co-work: the move to digital employees

Speed is not accuracy: models designed to hallucinate

Young creatives, AI stewardship and protecting your IP

AI for good: early detection, early intervention and connection for neurodivergent kids

Start with a governance plan

Timestamps

00:00 Meet Richard Schreiber

01:01 The AI landscape: speed without guardrails

03:46 No federal AI law, a patchwork of states

06:56 Open-source models and the cost differential

08:28 Lessons from cybersecurity

10:14 AI is not like software: hallucinations in court

11:44 Everyone uses AI, few firms have SOPs

15:32 When agents escape their sandbox

16:32 Law Firm AI Expert and Secure Justice AI

18:19 Quantum computing explained

21:51 Precision wellness and autism research

22:53 Chat, skills, co-work: digital employees

26:21 Bridging utilization and implementation

28:49 Think AI first, keep a human in the loop

31:45 People confuse speed with accuracy

32:49 Hallucinations at the highest levels and the case for governance

35:14 Social media, our kids and accountability

35:45 Young people booing AI

36:49 AI stewardship for creatives

40:00 Integrate to elevate

41:21 AI for good in the autism community

45:29 The first thing to do: start with governance

48:22 AI is a genius intern

49:51 Where to find Richard

About the guest

Richard Schreiber has worked in legal operations since 1983 and spent 25 years leading technology overhauls for law firms. He is the founder of Law Firm AI Expert and Secure Justice AI, the author of four books, a journalist, co-host of the True Journalism podcast, writes the Legal AI Strategist Substack, and is a longtime autism advocate. LinkedIn is a great way to connect with him.

Law Firm AI Expert:

https://lawfirmaiexpert.com

Secure Justice AI:

https://securejusticeai.com

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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What if the skills that help you understand an autistic child are the same ones that close more deals? Megan Killion and I share a lot. We both grew up on Cape Cod, in Dennis, and Megan, like my son, grew up with autism and sensory processing challenges.

Megan got pregnant her senior year of high school and had her first six-figure year at 19 as a single mom. Before that she was homeless, baiting tackle through a Cape Cod winter to feed her kid. Sales changed her life. She ran sales and marketing for StreamGuys and CacheFly, led business development at Ericsson, built an agency to help people without the same opportunities get into sales and marketing, and has helped build more than $550 million in client pipeline. Then came an ovarian cancer diagnosis. She sold the agency and rebuilt her life around one idea: do less, better.

She gives parents practical, compassionate advice on meeting autistic kids where they are, then shows how the same principle, getting into the world of the person in front of you, is the foundation of great discovery, great sales and great relationships.

What we get into:

• Comparison is the thief of joy for parents of autistic kids
• Meeting a child in sensory overload where they are
• Lighting, fabrics, noise and food: simple sensory changes at home
• Spoon theory and why everyone has a different number of spoons
• Replace the behavior instead of trying to control it
• Discovery, the most important and least used skill in sales
• Why the competitor you will lose to most often is "do nothing"
• Radical transparency: telling buyers why they shouldn't work with you
• Mapping to a buyer's personal goals, not just the business problem
• Marriage meditation and keeping a relationship strong
• Go touch grass

Timestamps

• 00:00 Meet Megan Killion
• 01:28 Autism, behavioral psychology and a childhood drive for justice
• 03:38 Teen pregnancy and her first six-figure year
• 05:25 From homelessness to B2B tech sales
• 07:53 Paying it forward: building her agency
• 09:05 A cancer diagnosis and learning to do less, better
• 12:51 Megan's advice for parents of autistic children
• 18:57 Meeting a child where they are
• 22:37 Getting into the world of your buyer
• 24:19 Sensory overload, lighting and universal design
• 26:53 Diet, gut health and spoon theory
• 31:00 Replace the behavior, don't control it
• 36:30 Discovery: the most underused sales skill
• 40:22 Selling against the cost of inaction
• 44:07 Radical transparency: "Why you shouldn't work with me"
• 46:29 Map to the personal, not just the business
• 47:50 Marriage meditation
• 50:03 Success is measured by happiness
• 54:19 Where to find Megan
• 55:40 Final message: go touch grass

About the guest

Megan Killion is a revenue architect for MSPs and founder led B2B technology companies, chief consultant at Pisces Growth, and the author of The MSP Sales Playbook, available on Amazon. LinkedIn is the best way to connect with her.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megankillion

Website: https://megankillion.com

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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It took most businesses 10 or 12 years to get on board when we moved from analog to digital. The move from digital to agentic? Gus thinks you might have 12 months.

In this one Gus walks me back through the three eras I have lived in business: analog, digital and now agentic. In the analog days I was the consultant who carried the answers, left behind a binder and a plan, and hoped. I was spending about 20 percent of my time doing what I loved and 80 percent on everything else. Digital changed the tools, but it did not change the inside. I was still trying to be controlling instead of putting controls in place.

Then I almost got killed on a bike, walked home with two broken ribs, and my wife asked me, "Are you done?" I said yes, sold the business, and tried retirement: beekeeping, gardening, pickleball, golf. It did not take. What brought me back was meeting Gus and seeing an AI SDR fill a calendar while he slept. I don't believe in retirement. I believe in rewiring.

What we get into:

• Analog, digital, agentic, and why the window is so much shorter this time
• Consulting in the analog world: the binder and the hope
• The 80/20 trap of spending most of your time on work you hate
• Having controls in place vs. being controlling
• Hostage taking: when one person holds your whole business
• The turning point: "Are you done?"
• Rewire, don't retire
• The AI SDR that works while you sleep
• Doing what you love almost all of the time
• Big banks telling outside law firms to stop billing by the hour
• Using AI before you meet with your attorney
• What AI means for consultants and the value of your IP

Timestamps

• 00:00 Welcome to The Real Intelligence Podcast
• 01:10 Analog, digital and agentic: why you may have 12 months
• 01:59 Consulting in the analog world
• 03:58 What it really cost: 80% doing work I hated
• 08:30 The digital world: Skype, PDFs and dashboards
• 10:39 Having controls vs. being controlling
• 11:30 Hostage taking in the digital age
• 14:03 The turning point: "Are you done?"
• 15:35 Rewire, don't retire
• 15:58 The AI SDR breakthrough
• 20:48 Doing what you love almost 100% of the time
• 24:06 Big banks tell law firms to stop billing by the hour
• 26:14 Use AI before you meet your attorney
• 27:35 What AI means for consultants

About the guest

Gus Waite is the founder of Independent Brokers Collective and my co-host on DelegAIte. Former NYC managing broker, former actor and stand up comedian, current Cape Cod resident who will absolutely make you laugh before he makes you think.

IB Collective: https://ibcollective.ai

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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What if you did everything right in your career and still did not feel financially free? That is where Dr. Matt Markel found himself.

Matt went from entry level engineer to the C-suite: head of radar at Waymo, CEO of Spartan Radar, CTO at Epirus, with patents in radar and defense technology. He grew up with a heavy scarcity mindset, and after decades of doing everything the playbook said, he still did not feel free. So he built Strata, which teaches eight habits for financial independence grouped into three areas: capture money before lifestyle spends it, govern it in a smart way, and protect it.

We talk about why success and wealth are two different games, how our generation got moved from defined benefit to defined contribution and quietly took on all the risk, why ownership beats effort, and his book, Anti-preneur, which makes the case that you can build wealth without quitting the career you worked so hard for. And the line I keep coming back to: you cannot consistently behave in a manner that is inconsistent with how you see yourself.

What we get into:

• Why success and wealth are not the same thing
• How a scarcity mindset follows high achievers into the C-suite
• Matt's path from engineer to Waymo, Spartan Radar and Epirus
• What Waymo's focus on safety taught him about building systems
• The retirement savings shortfall most professionals ignore
• How defined contribution plans shifted the risk onto you
• Ownership over effort
• The eight habits: capture, govern and protect
• Why software can scale the lesson better than another book
• The Anti-preneur case for building wealth without quitting your career
• You can't outearn your self-image

Timestamps

• 00:00 Meet Dr. Matt Markel
• 01:05 Growing up with a scarcity mindset
• 02:00 From engineer to the C-suite
• 03:40 Success and wealth are not the same
• 05:01 The Waymo wake-up on real wealth
• 06:20 Radar, safety and Waymo's edge
• 10:05 Making things better, not inventing Post-its
• 12:11 The retirement savings shortfall
• 13:53 Ownership over effort
• 16:28 Strata and the eight habits
• 17:43 Capture, govern and protect
• 20:02 Why software beats another book
• 21:39 Where to find Strata
• 22:50 The Anti-preneur idea
• 25:09 Why most startups fail
• 26:04 Professionals build what entrepreneurs invent
• 27:09 You can't outearn your self-image
• 28:03 Where to connect with Matt

About the guest

Dr. Matt Markel is the founder of Strata Financial Education and the author of Anti-preneur. Former head of radar at Waymo, CEO of Spartan Radar and CTO at Epirus. This episode is for informational purposes only and is not financial advice.

Strata: https://learnstrata.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-markel

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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Most conversations about delegation start with mechanics: what to hand over, to whom, and in what order. My guest today says that is the second question. The first one is harder. What actually belongs on your plate in the first place?

Remy Meraz is the co-founder and president of Zella Life, a coaching and behavioral analytics platform that received funding from Google's Latino Founders Fund. She started doing the inner work because of a toxic boss whose leadership by fear and intimidation made her and four other people sick. Later she left her marriage, went from a six-figure salary to nothing, moved into a studio, watched her first venture go down, and got fired from the job she took to get by. Once she started building Zella, the first corporate client and the Google funding followed within a couple of months.

We get into why strong individual contributors struggle when they become managers, why delegation is an inside job, psychological safety and the cost of silence, and how AI can reduce cognitive load without replacing empathy and human connection. Her one piece of advice: build yourself first.

What we get into:

• Why scaling a company starts with scaling yourself
• Being capable does not mean you should do everything
• Why good employees struggle when they become managers
• How AI amplifies what is already inside an organization, good or bad
• Using AI to reduce cognitive load
• Delegation is an inside job
• Fear, control, and the illusion of being in control
• Knowing what you suck at, even if you are great at it
• Psychological safety and the cost of silence
• Confidence is a muscle you build in small steps
• The power of surrender, and Remy's own journey through it
• Reframing failure as the chance to learn

Timestamps

• 00:00 What belongs on your plate in the first place
• 00:56 Meet Remy Meraz and Zella Life
• 02:04 From toxic leadership to personal transformation
• 03:41 Why Remy built Zella Life
• 07:32 Why founders have to do the inner work
• 09:12 Why good employees struggle as managers
• 12:23 AI for good: technology, empathy and human connection
• 14:09 How AI can reduce cognitive load
• 17:52 Delegation is an inside job
• 18:15 Fear, control and the illusion of control
• 21:19 Getting underneath the behavior
• 23:03 Psychological safety and the cost of silence
• 27:03 Building confidence through small steps
• 27:56 The power of surrender
• 33:07 Remy's journey of surrender and rebuilding
• 37:16 The "what if" game and fear of failure
• 39:56 When the first venture failed
• 46:10 Nobody gets replaced. Everybody gets elevated
• 46:39 Remy's one piece of advice for founders
• 47:12 Where to connect with Remy

About the guest

Remy Meraz is the co-founder and president of Zella Life, a coaching and behavioral analytics platform. She offers a complimentary coaching session through the Zella Life website.

Zella Life: https://zellalife.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/remy-meraz/

Email: [email protected]

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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Most people in logistics will tell you the problem is speed. Quote faster, book faster, move faster. My guest today thinks that is the wrong diagnosis. Going faster without better judgment just moves the mistake further down the line.

Chris Condon started out driving a forklift in a container yard in Kent, Washington in 1995. He spent 16 years at Expeditors, took over a freight company that was $59 million in debt and had it profitable inside one year, then built and sold another one. Today he runs Aircon, an AI platform for air freight forwarders.

The reason I wanted him on: he walked away from a part of the business that was making money because it was not the company he needed to exist. Running a tech enabled wholesaler alongside a tech brand confused the market and put his neutrality in question, so he cut it. What he found next is that most of his customers are missing 30 to 40 percent of their inputs, and the quote is just the visible output of the work.

What we get into:

• Speed without judgment relocates the error
• From forklift driver to logistics leader, and what the dock teaches that no dashboard shows
• Turning around a company with $59 million in debt in one year
• Stop selling the service and solve the customer's real problem
• The noise and trust problem around AI
• Why people and judgment matter more than data
• Walking away from a profitable business model to stay neutral
• Captain Cargo, and the brand that did not fit
• The 30 to 40 percent of inputs most forwarders never see
• Is the problem the technology or the willingness to let go of the work?
• Using AI to elevate human capacity and customer value

Timestamps

• 00:00 Why speed without judgment creates bigger mistakes
• 01:05 From forklift driver to logistics leader
• 02:24 What dock level execution teaches you
• 04:51 Turning around a company with $59 million in debt
• 08:16 Stop selling the service, solve the real problem
• 10:39 The noise and trust problem in AI
• 15:29 Why people and judgment matter more than data
• 20:09 Walking away from a profitable business model
• 23:06 The inputs customers do not know they are missing
• 24:44 Captain Cargo and the brand that did not fit
• 26:50 Speed without judgment relocates the error
• 33:37 Technology, or the willingness to let go of the work?
• 37:13 The takeaway: use AI to elevate customer value
• 38:23 Where to connect with Chris
• 39:08 How his wife felt about shutting down Captain Cargo

About the guest

Chris Condon is the founder of Aircon, an AI platform for air freight forwarders. He started on a forklift in Kent, Washington, spent 16 years at Expeditors, and turned around a freight company carrying $59 million in debt. He welcomes engagement from the industry on LinkedIn.

Aircon: https://aircon.ai

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-condon-air-freight-ai/

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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My guest today lost his brother to a misdiagnosis. His brother was a cardiologist. Think about that for a second: a physician inside the system, with every advantage, and the system still missed it.

Dr. Steven Charlap is a surgeon trained at NYU with an MBA from Harvard. He spent 21 years co-founding and running HealthDrive, a mobile medical company that served over five million patients across 13 states, made the Inc. 500 twice and exited to private equity. He gave his personal phone number to the families of his patients. He could have stopped there. Instead he spent the last decade, and over four million dollars of his own money, building MEDOME.ai, an AI powered personal health record that runs the full medical interview, applies more than 500 algorithms, and hands you back the questions your doctor does not have time to ask.

His answer to what his brother's story teaches us is three words: trust but verify. Doctors are human, under pressure, and there are 28,000 diseases. When he first went to doctors with MEDOME, some told him they did not want more information on their patients. So he built it for the rest of us.

What we get into:

• Trust but verify, and why even great doctors miss things
• 28,000 diseases, and why no physician can see them all
• The three-drug interaction his own product caught for him
• Why doctors told him they did not want more patient data
• How MEDOME gathers your history, wearables and lab results
• Generating the questions to ask your doctor, and recording the appointment
• How doctors respond to a patient who walks in informed
• Spending more on the product than on marketing
• AI in primary care and the doctor shortage
• Ten dollars a month, and who this is for
• Taking care of yourself before you have a problem

Timestamps

• 00:00 He lost his brother to a misdiagnosis
• 01:13 HealthDrive and handing out his personal phone number
• 02:48 What his brother's story tells us: trust but verify
• 04:13 Why doctors miss uncommon diseases
• 05:13 The three-drug interaction that nearly hurt him
• 06:44 Direct to consumer, and why doctors said no to more data
• 09:58 Detecting signals before symptoms appear
• 10:57 Plugging in your wearables
• 12:49 Questions for your doctor and recording the visit
• 13:04 How doctors respond to an informed patient
• 15:54 Product over marketing
• 18:57 AI in primary care and the doctor shortage
• 21:54 Trust but verify, applied to the technology itself
• 25:02 How to get access, and ten dollars a month
• 30:07 Using it to build a health plan
• 32:01 Steve's parting message

About the guest

Dr. Steven Charlap is a surgeon trained at NYU, a Harvard MBA, and the co-founder of HealthDrive, which served over five million patients across 13 states. He is the founder of MEDOME.ai, an AI powered personal health record. This episode is for informational purposes only and is not medical advice.

MEDOME: https://medome.ai

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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Every founder I know has had the same instinct at least once. Growth stalls, so we lean in. Work harder, do more. More meetings, more approvals, more of you. My guest today did exactly that and watched it make things worse.

Vlad Podoliako started out as a researcher finding sales leads in Kyiv. Two years later he was chief data officer. In 2017 he founded Belkins, now one of the highest rated B2B client acquisition firms in the world, and built it without outside money. He is a Forbes 30 Under 30, and today he has 16 companies. When Belkins hit the wall, what finally worked was Vlad stepping back from an entire function and letting someone else genuinely own it. Results improved because he was not there.

We get into the 80% rule, the need to be needed, the hostage relationship between owners and indispensable employees, and why memory, a company brain built from your own knowledge, is the foundation of an AI native company.

What we get into:

• Why the founder becomes the biggest bottleneck in the company
• Forcing change vs. empowering people
• Breaking the hostage relationship with an indispensable employee
• The 80% rule of delegation
• Why founders work at 200%, and what that does to the team
• The founder's need to be needed
• What building 16 companies taught Vlad about letting go
• Doing only what you love, and letting go of control
• How to build an AI forward company
• Why AI native companies need memory
• The company brain and what it does for founder capacity
• Don't be afraid to create

Timestamps

• 00:00 Every founder's instinct, and meet Vlad Podoliako
• 01:31 When the founder becomes the bottleneck
• 04:16 Forcing change vs. empowering people
• 05:57 Breaking the hostage relationship
• 07:47 The 80% rule of delegation
• 10:13 Why founders work at 200%
• 12:13 The new age of AI and delegation
• 14:09 The founder's need to be needed
• 15:35 Building 16 companies
• 19:54 Doing only what you love
• 21:24 Letting go of control
• 22:33 Becoming the visionary and creator
• 24:04 How to build an AI forward company
• 27:07 Why AI needs memory
• 28:44 The company brain
• 31:01 How AI changes founder capacity
• 32:04 The power of entrepreneurship
• 34:45 How to connect with Vlad
• 35:27 Vlad's advice: don't be afraid to create
• 36:16 Closing

About the guest

Vlad Podoliako is the founder of Belkins, a B2B client acquisition firm he built without outside money, and a Forbes 30 Under 30. He started as a researcher finding sales leads in Kyiv and was chief data officer two years later. LinkedIn is the best place to find him.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chiefdata

Belkins: https://belkins.io/contact-us

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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Eight years. Tens of millions of dollars. Not one unit sold. That is what it took Cody Simmons and his team to get DermaSensor through the FDA, the first automated skin cancer detection device cleared for primary care doctors. And the first three people on the team are still working together nine years later.

Cody is the co-founder and CEO of DermaSensor. Time named it one of the best inventions of 2024, and it landed on Inc's list alongside Anthropic and NVIDIA. He did his graduate work in bioengineering at Stanford and spent four years at Genentech before joining his co-founder, a serial medical device entrepreneur, to turn a research technology into a company.

Skin cancer is the cancer you can see, and yet only about eight percent of the hundred million Americans at risk get the recommended annual skin exam. I know why people avoid it. I sat on a mole for a long time because I did not want to hear the answer. So we walked through the four things every founder building something hard runs into: regulation, capital, trust and scale. And Cody told me about the second patient ever scanned after clearance, a man who was sure his mole was fine. It came back a 10 out of 10.

What we get into:

• Why they went after family doctors instead of dermatologists
• From a microwave-sized desktop system to a one pound handheld
• Healthcare, hardware and the FDA, all at once
• How you hold a team together for eight years with no revenue
• Raising capital for something you are not allowed to sell yet
• The real objection: why not just use a photo and an algorithm
• A live demo, and how the device reads up to a millimeter beneath the surface of the skin
• Earning trust from people with far more training than you
• Not cutting corners on clinical data, and the pulse oximetry problem
• What broke first when they were finally cleared to sell
• Why Cody is now glad clearance did not come in 2023
• 300,000 primary care physicians at 140,000 locations, and why a small team cannot do it alone

Timestamps

• 00:00 Meet Cody Simmons and DermaSensor
• 01:27 The founding story
• 03:39 From a microwave-sized machine to a one pound handheld
• 04:31 Why family doctors, not dermatologists
• 06:35 What primary care doctors miss
• 08:34 The mole I did not want to look at
• 10:18 The second patient ever scanned
• 12:00 Zooming out: regulation, capital, trust, scale
• 14:36 Eight years of R&D before selling unit one
• 16:56 The three people who stayed nine years
• 18:39 Raising money for something you cannot sell yet
• 21:49 Why not just a photo and an algorithm
• 23:22 Live demo of the device
• 26:33 Five tissue samples and the risk scale
• 28:27 Earning trust from people with more training than you
• 31:43 The pulse oximetry problem and what the FDA asked for
• 34:17 What broke first at launch
• 35:39 Why the timing worked out better
• 36:18 Scaling to 300,000 physicians
• 39:19 How to reach Cody

About the guest

Cody Simmons is the co-founder and CEO of DermaSensor, the first automated skin cancer detection device cleared by the FDA for primary care doctors. Stanford bioengineering, four years at Genentech, and ten years into building DermaSensor. He is responsive on LinkedIn.

DermaSensor: https://www.dermasensor.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyvsimmons/

Want to be a guest? We are looking for real operators, not celebrities. Fill out the guest form at the link below:

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