Send us a text

In the heartfelt conclusion to our three-part conversation, Caren Khoo, Vice President and Deputy General Counsel at Verizon, opens up about the foundational supports behind her success, including her family, her network, and her faith. Caren reflects on the importance of freedom, humility, and asking for help, sharing valuable lessons learned from a career filled with unexpected twists and personal growth.

We explore what it means to build a meaningful professional life while staying grounded, supported, and open to change. This episode is full of wisdom for young lawyers, working parents, and anyone navigating career and life transitions. As we wrap Season 1 of The Real Lawyer Podcast, we’re deeply grateful to Caren and all of our guests for sharing their real stories.

Send us a text

In this episode, Verizon VP & Deputy General Counsel Caren Khoo shares her 17-year journey from patent litigator to corporate legal leader. She reveals how transitioning from BigLaw to in-house counsel transformed her career - from the surprising similarities in litigation work to the liberating shift away from billable hours. Caren discusses her evolution through multiple Verizon divisions, now leading a 40-person legal team supporting business operations, product development, and AI governance. With refreshing honesty, she reflects on how managing vaccine production lines at 22 unexpectedly prepared her for legal leadership, and why she's found her true passion in building high-performing legal teams.

Send us a text

In this episode, Caren Khoo, VP & Deputy General Counsel at Verizon, discusses her path from industrial engineering to corporate legal leadership. She shares insights about transitioning from IP litigation at firms like WilmerHale to her current in-house role overseeing AI governance and leading a 40-person legal team. Caren reflects on how diverse professional experiences, including early management roles, shaped her approach to legal strategy and team leadership.

Send us a text

Episode Summary - Part 3: A Day in the Life of a Law School Dean

In this final episode, Dean Josh Fershee pulls back the curtain on his daily life leading Creighton University School of Law. He shares his disciplined morning routine (a 14-year running habit), his open-door policy for students, and how he balances administrative duties with teaching environmental law. Josh discusses innovative initiatives like expanding clinical programs and his pragmatic approach to AI in legal education—using it as a teaching tool while emphasizing verification. He offers sage advice for aspiring lawyers: focus on learning over grades, avoid "golden handcuffs," and stay open to unexpected career paths. The conversation closes with Josh's heartfelt reflections on finding fulfillment beyond financial success.

Stay tuned for more inspiring conversations with legal leaders on The Real Lawyer Podcast!

Send us a text

Episode Summary - Part 2: Building a Supportive Legal Education Environment

In this episode, the conversation continues with Josh Fershee, Dean of Creighton Law School, who reflects on his journey from West Virginia to Omaha. He shares his experiences balancing family life with a demanding academic career, including the challenges of moving during his children's school years. He discusses his leadership approach at Creighton, emphasizing the importance of creating a supportive environment for students and faculty, such as offering daycare solutions during snow days. Josh also opens up about the unexpected challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic and the societal impact of George Floyd’s murder, and how he navigated these issues by staying true to his values. His story highlights the importance of authenticity, leadership, and fostering a community where everyone can thrive.

Stay tuned for Part 3, where Josh discusses the future of legal education and his vision for law schools in a post-pandemic world.

Send us a text

Episode Summary - Part 1: From College Town to Law School

In this episode, Josh Fershee, Dean and Professor of Law at Creighton University, takes us on a journey through his unique path to law. Growing up in East Lansing, Michigan, with a father who worked in government law, Josh’s early exposure to the legal world was unconventional. He shares how his academic journey was filled with twists and turns, including attending three colleges before settling at Michigan State. After meeting his wife on a political campaign, their shared decision to attend law school together at Tulane University would shape both their careers. Josh discusses how their supportive partnership made law school more manageable and how balancing family and professional growth became key to their success.

Stay tuned for Part 2, where Josh dives deeper into his transition from practicing law in New York and Washington, DC, to his current role in legal academia.

Send us a text

In this final episode, Lucy Fato shares her leadership journey at Seaport Entertainment, navigating the complexities of real estate, hospitality, and live events. She reflects on how lessons from past challenges continue to shape her approach to decision-making and team leadership.

Lucy offers candid insights on servant leadership, the importance of mentorship, and why clarity is kindness. Her perspective on resilience and growth is both inspiring and practical for anyone aspiring to lead with purpose.

Tune in for a conversation filled with wisdom and warmth, and discover how Lucy is making an impact while looking toward the future of legal and corporate leadership.

Send us a text

In this episode, Lucy Fato opens up about her bold move from Big Law to the corporate world. She shares why she finally said yes to Marsh McLennan after turning down a previous offer and how trust in leadership played a key role.

From navigating crises at S&P Global to balancing legal, HR, and communications at AIG during the pandemic, Lucy’s story is one of resilience, problem-solving, and staying true to her values. She also offers insights into what it means to lead with integrity and how legal leaders are stepping up to tackle today’s biggest challenges.

Join us for this inspiring conversation, and stay tuned for Part 3 as Lucy dives into her current role at Seaport Entertainment.

Send us a text

In this episode, Lucy Fato, a renowned corporate lawyer, shares her inspiring journey from her first-generation Italian-American upbringing in Pittsburgh to becoming a leader in corporate law. Lucy reflects on her early career experiences, including working as a phlebotomist and in retail finance, and how witnessing racial injustice ignited her passion for law. She discusses her time at the University of Pittsburgh Law School, her transition to corporate law at Davis Polk, and the invaluable lessons she learned while navigating the fast-paced world of capital markets. Lucy’s story highlights the power of mentorship, resilience, and finding purpose in unexpected places.

Stay tuned for Part 2, where Lucy delves into her move from law firm partner to in-house leadership.

Send us a text

In this episode of The Real Lawyer Podcast, host Joyce Sophia continues her conversation with Wayne Outten, Chair and Founding Partner of Outten and Golden, a labor and employment law firm. Wayne shares his journey of building a successful law firm focused on advocating for employees and reflects on the personal challenges he's faced along the way. From making difficult decisions about his career path to navigating the stresses of representing clients in legal battles, Wayne offers valuable insights on leadership, risk-taking, and staying grounded. Plus, he talks about the role his family has played in both his personal and professional life. Tune in for a warm, candid conversation on what it takes to build a thriving law firm while staying true to your roots.