In this episode of the Relational Podcast, host Rachel Sinha is joined by David Jay, author of 'Relationality: How Moving from Transactional to Transformational Relationships Can Reshape Our Lonely World.'

The discussion explores the transformative power of deep listening and meaningful relationships in addressing societal crises. David shares his journey from founding asexuality.org to advocating for relational ecosystems in movements and workplaces. Key concepts discussed include relational invisibility, the impact of personal storytelling, and the importance of creating environments where relationships can thrive. David emphasizes releasing control to allow relationships to evolve naturally and offers insights into how relational approaches can solve complex problems more effectively than top-down strategies.

00:47 Welcoming David Jay
01:56 David Jay's Journey and Work
05:41 Defining Relationality
08:55 Creating Relational Environments
12:32 Relational Systems and Social Movements
16:30 Challenges and Skepticism
21:10 Practical Advice for Building Relationships
24:47 Conclusion and Final Thoughts


A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle.

We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in! By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world.

Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, host Meg Busse sits down with Avani Parekh, a community builder and technologist bridging digital and physical spaces to create true connection. Together, they explore the epidemic of loneliness, how trust and humanness are built in anonymous online networks, and why "touching grass"—real-world connection—is essential in our hyper-digital lives.

Avani shares her experience building Love Doctor, a confidential platform for young people in South Asia to discuss sexual health and relationships, born from a moment of national grief and activism. She reflects on the role of weavers—trusted connectors who humanize digital spaces—and calls for intentionality in making online spaces lead to offline human connection.The conversation is a rallying cry for all digital builders, community weavers, and humans: show up in your messiness, invite others in, and bring people together face-to-face.Topics We Cover:

• The origins and impact of Love Doctor in taboo contexts
• Building trust and "weavers" in faceless online worlds
• Why every digital community needs a "touch grass" moment
• How showing up as your imperfect, real self sparks collective healing and change

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future.

Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

Host Ana Amrein Esnaola talks with Catherine Dempsey about why interdependent relationships—not transactions—drive social change.

We explore participatory grantmaking, trust-based funding, and consensus decision-making, plus practical first steps (beginning with deep listening). Learn how centering community and connection builds resilience, improves funding decisions, and powers systemic impact.

• 00:59 — Meet Catherine: Collaborative development & social value
• 02:31 — Birds, sky, connection: Everyday cues for interdependence
• 09:25 — Participatory grantmaking: Community power in funding
• 13:09 — Relational approaches at work: From silos to ecosystems
• 27:02 — Governance & consensus: What inclusive decisions look like
• 30:44 — Why now: Democracy, resilience, and trust-based practice
• 31:57 — Start here: Deep listening as a daily discipline

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle.

We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision.

We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

We talk about social impact, but what about relational impact? In this episode, we delve into the radical idea that meaningful conversations and deep relationships drive transformative social change more effectively than policies or technologies alone. Melanie, a designer and facilitator based in  Brooklyn with roots in the Midwest, explores how her work at the intersection of design and social impact centers on relational processes. Born out of her background in studying how people make change in organizations, neighborhoods, and social movements, Melanie explores how relational and appreciative approaches enhance research and design— even in large corporations.Drawing from the wisdom of Corita Kent and Wendell Berry, Melanie shares the spiritual imperative of relational ways of working in this moment of upheaval. At its core, relational ways of working reveal individual potential and tap into collective possibilities—that’s what practitioners must center. By highlighting case studies in education, retail, theater, and crisis response, Melanie illustrates how fostering  human connection creates resilience, amplifies creativity, and creates more durable impact. Join us in exploring how every story and every conversation illuminates the power of relationships. 
 
What you’ll learn:
🔸Snail Mail & New Walks: The power of analog joy in a digital world
🔸Back to Basics: Returning to relational ways of working
🔸Defining Relationality through Possibility: What a creative nun and agrarian poet teach us about relational creativity
🔸Case Study: How creatively engaging with retail employees shifted power, deepened relationships, and shaped creative change for a beloved brand
🔸Rehearsing Trust: What relational practitioners can learn from long-form improv comedy
🔸Crisis as the crucible: Relationships formed in crisis and the power of creative, relational approaches in emergent change
🔸Microcosms of change: What the “Early Relational Health” field demonstrates about the power of relational work in policy and systems change
🔸Action Steps: The power of dinner parties and telling stories of the unexpected
🔸Imaginary Book club: Solnit’s “A Paradise Built in Hell” and Ehrenreich’s” Dancing in the Streets”
🔸Relational lineages: The power of reflecting on understanding your relational roots as a practitioner

Dig deeper:

• 📚Books recommended:
  • “A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster” by Rebecca Solnit
  • “Dancing in the Streets: A History of Collective Joy” by Barbara Ehrenreich
• 📝 Follow “The Meld” on Substack—forthcoming newsletter on relational alchemy 
• 💬 Connect with Melanie on LinkedIn, Instagram, Threads 
• 🖥 Be in touch! Website
• Latest research on kinship and connection

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ 

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, Melanie Kahl and Georgie Nightingall engage in an intimate conversation exploring the transformative power of relationships and deep listening. We’ll delve into the unseen forces of connection and reciprocity, discussing how meaningful interactions are pivotal for change.
Georgie shares personal experiences, the founding of her company Trigger Conversations, and insights from her PhD research on human connection. You’ll learn practices for being a better relational leader (mapping ripples!) and how to think about the multifaceted value of relationships (from cognitive to social-emotional). Follow Georgie’s journey from her early days in project management to becoming a Sandbox member and from Trigger conversations to a PhD in human connection.

The episode emphasizes the importance of building trust, co-creation, and participatory roles in fostering a connected and resilient community. Through storytelling and reflection, the conversation highlights the critical role of relationality in driving social impact and navigating complex challenges.

00:53 Centering and Grounding Ritual
03:48 Introducing Georgie: A Social Entrepreneur
08:39 Trigger Conversations: The Birth of an Idea
11:23 The Power of Relational Work in Organizations
19:23 Relational Leadership in Action
20:53 The Sandbox Community Model
29:30 Mapping Relational Ripples
33:51 Practical Steps for Relational Leadership

Links:

• Centering and Grounding Ritual: Crown Shyness, Mother Trees, and poem: Clearing – Martha Postlethwaite
• Georgie’s organisation Trigger Conversations
• Georgie’s TEDx Talk, “Talking to Strangers”
• Georgie’s research on five types of interaction structures 
• Newsletter: Conversations with Georgie
• Personal Website: www.georgienightingall.co.uk 

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together – especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision.We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this episode of the Relational Podcast, host Georgie Nightingall engages in a profound conversation with Sumitra Pasupathy, of KAI Advisory and partner at Philanthropy Dialogues about the transformative power of relationships in addressing global crises. 

Sumitra shares her rich family heritage, her journey from being an engineer to a social innovator, and her work with resource and wealth holders. She highlights the importance of trust, deep listening, and relational frameworks in effecting meaningful social change. The discussion delves into the concept of social innovation versus product innovation, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on her work, and practical steps for embracing relational leadership.

00:00 Introduction to the Relational Podcast
00:59 Meet Sumitra: A Journey of Heritage and Social Impact
02:27 The Influence of Family and Community
05:36 From Engineering to Social Innovation
08:05 A Pivotal Moment During COVID-19
11:35 The Power of Relational Trust
18:48 Facing the Poly Crisis with Trust and Collaboration
25:28 Practical Steps for Embracing Relationa lLeadership
27:53 Conclusion: The Heart of Transformation

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ 

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, host Sumitra Pasupathy, of Karuna Advisory Impact (KAI) and partner at Philanthropy Dialogues speaks to Fabian Pfortmüller to explore the transformative power of genuine human connections and relationships. Fabian Pfortmüller, is partner at Together Institute, an organization that works with purpose-driven communities, networks and their leaders to help them thrive. Fabian is co-creator of the Wasan Network, a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Fabian writes a newsletter on community and is co-author of the Community Canvas and the Community Weaving Framework, both open-source community building frameworks.

They discuss how deep listening and relationality can drive systemic change, sharing personal stories and insights on belonging, community building, and the role of relational leadership. Fabian delves into his own journey from Switzerland to Amsterdam, his experiences with the Sandbox community, and the impact of fostering deep, intentional relationships. The conversation covers the significance of belonging, the limitations of transactional networking, and the importance of caring for relationships within various fields. They also touch on philosophical and practical aspects of relational work, urging resource holders to value and support these essential human connections. They end with practical advice on how to start working relationally, emphasizing the power of making genuine invitations.

00:00 Introduction to the Relational Podcast
02:36 Meet Fabo: A Journey of Connection
07:47 The Power of Belonging
12:04 Why Relational Work Matters
17:19 Creating Communities of Change
22:40 Amplfying RelationalLeadership
27:50 Practical Steps to Start Working Relationally
29:00 Closing Reflections

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ 

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, Fabian Pfortmüller and Meg Busse explore the power of relationships in social change, the unique design of the Roddenberry Fellowship, and practical ways to foster connection and abundance in communities. Meg shares personal stories, challenges, and insights from leading a fellow-driven network, and both hosts reflect on the value of slowing down and deep listening in a fast-paced world.

Key Moments:
00:52 – Meet Meg Busse: Her background, passions, and the Roddenberry Foundation
02:10 – The impact of the Roddenberry Fellowship: Building solidarity and trust
04:53 – Shifting to fellow-led retreats and network ownership
08:46 – How the fellowship changed Meg personally
10:56 – Designing for connection, abundance, and glimpses of the future
13:13 – The annual rhythm: Retreats, coaching, and community touchpoints
15:24 – The benefits and challenges of fellow-led retreats
17:35 – How Meg’s role shifted with distributed leadership
19:19 – Addressing skepticism: Why relational work is “soft, slow, and magical”
21:36 – Practical advice: How to start working more relationally
24:29 – The importance of asking questions and fostering curiosity
25:54 – Final reflections: Making the case for relationships and closing thoughts

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production and dissemination by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ 

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this heart-opening episode of The Relational Podcast, Avani Parekh from Catalyst Now sits down  with Rachel Sinha, systems thinker, community convenor and co-founder of The System Sanctuary, to explore how relationships, rather than reports or rigid strategies, spark true transformation in systems change work.

Rachel shares stories from her journey—growing up in the English countryside, moving across continents, and initiating unexpected communities wherever she lands. Together, they unpack the bold act of convening, the vulnerability of gathering people without a script, and the magic (and messiness) that arises when we center human connection in our change-making work.

Highlights

• From Gardening Clubs to Global Communities: Rachel reflects on her lifelong tendency to build community, from childhood clubs to leading system-shifting networks in finance and beyond.
• The Finance Innovation Lab: How one “no-budget” convening initiative during the 2008 financial crisis ended up catalyzing new coalitions, policy shifts, and even marriages.
• Throw a Better Party: The power of joyful, inclusive, creative convenings over dry, extractive panel sessions—and why making spaces “fun” is strategic, not fluffy.
• Facing the Fear of Convening: What it really feels like to send the invitation—personally and professionally—and why it’s an act of leadership worth the risk.
• Why Metrics Miss the Point: Rachel breaks down why the most transformational work often happens in meandering, sacred spaces that defy typical KPIs and outputs.
• The Sacred in the Systemic: A moving glimpse into The System Sanctuary, a peer space for global system leaders to be real, slow down, and be seen.

Wisdom Drops

• “If you don’t know the answer, that’s your signal to convene.”
• “People often recognize the value of relationality in their personal lives—but don’t allow it into their professional work.”
• “Hosting a gathering is like throwing a party—it’s brave, messy, and transformative if you let it be.”

Resources Mentioned

• Art of Hosting — Participatory leadership methodology for deep conversations
• Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree brown
• Panarchy Cycle — A systems framework for understanding birth, death, and regeneration in ecosystems and organizations

A Note from Avani: Rachel, thank you for making the invisible visible. Your presence in our community and your courage to keep convening even when the outcomes are intangible inspires us all. The next party we throw—we’re channeling your spirit.

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ 

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About

In this episode of The Relational Podcast, host Rachel Sinha talks with Christine Lai and explores what happens when you treat relationships not as a side note, but as the core strategy.

Christine shares the unexpected advice that’s guided her journey recently: to have one close friend in every generation. She talks about lessons learned on building the field of entrepreneurial ecosystems at the Kauffman Foundation and offers an honest look at what worked, what didn’t, and why relationality sat at the heart of it all.

The conversation also touches on the messiness of relational work, Christine’s refreshingly kind approach to AI (she may be the only person who speaks to her AI companions with full presence), and the role of compassion in navigating today’s tangled challenges.The episode opens with a reading of The Invitation by Mary Oliver. 

Episode Highlights: 

02:51 Christine's Journey and Defining Relationality
05:40 Relational Breakthroughs and Community Building
13:44 Challenges and Navigating Relational Work
28:40 Relationality in the Age of AI
32:30 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

A big shout-out to the Wasan community for bringing us together - especially Meg Busse, Rachel Sinha, Christine Lai and Melanie Kahl, facilitators of the “Making the Case for Relationality” huddle. We appreciate your role in fostering this conversation.Thank you for tuning in!

By sharing this episode and letting others know what inspired you, you help expand the community of co-creators building a more compassionate world. Dive deeper into our work at efectocolibri.com and join us in sparking the collective change we all envision. We value your voice—together, we can empower social innovation.

Conceived and co-created during a Wasan Network small group in partnership with Huddlecraft. Wasan is a global network of social impact and philanthropy practitioners who believe that relationships sit at the center of social change. Learn more: https://www.wasan-network.org/

Production by Efecto Colibrí: Efecto Colibrí blends storytelling, social innovation, and the power of relationships to produce and distribute original and partner podcasts that bridge communities and sectors, shift mindsets, and spark action toward a more just, diverse, and regenerative future. Learn more https://efectocolibri.com/en/ 

Artwork by Anjali Chandrashekar. https://anjalic.com/About