The Restaurant Guys' Regulars

This is a Vintage episode from 2010.

The Banter
A steakhouse offers customers a way to disguise lavish lunches on their expense reports, complete with pre-wrinkled receipts and camouflage doggy bags. Mark and Francis debate whether this steakhouse deserves a marketing award or a visit from the authorities.

The Conversation
Winemaker Randall Grahm joins the Guys for a funny, irreverent conversation about his book, Been Doon So Long: A Randall Grahm Vinthology. Between literary parodies and pointed footnotes and why a numerical score can’t tell you what you’ll enjoy drinking tonight.

Randall reflects on the business consequences of poking Robert Parker in the eye, explains why he stopped making Chardonnay, and questions what happens when winemakers chase the same critic’s palate. Along the way, broccoli gets a score, American wine tastes get the chicken-finger treatment, and Randall reveals where to get the best wine buying advice.

Beneath the jokes is a serious pursuit: making original wines that express where they come from. Randall shares his shift from pleasing others to pleasing himself and the unconventional vineyard ideas behind that ambition.

The Guest Bio
Randall Grahm is a California winemaker who founded Bonny Doon Vineyard and helped popularize Rhône grape varieties in the United States. He received the James Beard Foundation’s Wine and Spirits Professional of the Year award in 1994 and published Been Doon So Long: A Randall Grahm Vinthology in 2009. He sold Bonny Doon in 2020 and has remained involved as a consultant. His other winemaking projects include The Language of Yes and Popelouchum.

Timestamps
01:00 — Expense-account steaks and camouflage leftovers
07:00 — Randall Grahm and Been Doon So Long
09:00 — What wine scores leave out
19:00 — Finding a wine merchant you trust
22:00 — Robert Parker and the cost of chasing scores
27:00 — Wine, literature, and parody
29:00 — Making original wines that express a place

Info
Randall’s book: Been Doon So Long: A Randall Grahm Vinthology

The Language of Yes
https://www.languageofyeswine.com/

Popelouchum
https://www.popelouchum.com/

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This is a Vintage compilation from 2010.

Why This Episode Matters

• A Real Housewives of New Jersey cookbook introduces one particularly memorable piece of dietary advice: avoid “stripper food.”
• “Juicy bits from Joe” require Mark to summon his Nutley Italian accent. Things deteriorate from there. 
• A New York Times story about changing bachelor parties sparks a conversation about great food, excessive drinking and what actually makes a night memorable.
• Then come the restaurant stories: security deposits, chicken suits, and three unexpected strippers.

The Conversation

Mark Pascal and Francis Schott find the ridiculous side of food, restaurants and the ways people celebrate.

First, a cookbook associated with The Real Housewives of New Jersey offers some reasonable food advice and one rule Mark and Francis are unlikely to forget: never eat anything that could also be a stripper’s name. Cookie, Candy and Cupcake quickly lead to Bambi, Bunny and the question of what Michael Pollan would make of all this.

Then a story about increasingly food-focused bachelor parties gets them talking about why a great meal might be more memorable than the traditional blowout. Naturally, this leads to their own restaurant experience including a three-page rulebook that clearly existed for a reason and a bachelor party that somehow acquired three strippers from elsewhere in the building.

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This is a Vintage episode from 2006.

Jay Weinstein, author of The Ethical Gourmet, explains how everyday food choices affect farmers, animals, workers, the environment—and what ultimately ends up on the plate.

Why This Episode Matters

• Why inexpensive food may carry environmental and taxpayer-funded costs that are hidden from shoppers
• How farm subsidies can favor industrial agriculture over smaller farms
• Why ethical production and better flavor often meet at the same farm
• Practical ways to buy more responsibly without attempting dietary sainthood
• The enduring value of local farms, CSAs, seasonal produce, and preserving food at its peak

Banter

Mark and Francis begin with an important distinction: a cookout is not necessarily barbecue. From college pig roasts that finished around 2:00 a.m. to whole-hog dining in Manhattan, the conversation becomes a loving tribute to smoke, pork, poor planning, and the dangerous optimism of hungry men.

The Conversation

Jay Weinstein joins the show to discuss The Ethical Gourmet and the confusion surrounding terms such as organic, natural, local, humane, and sustainable. He argues that diners do not need to solve every problem in the food system; even switching to products such as organic dairy and eggs can support better farming practices. The discussion examines the hidden costs of inexpensive food, including agricultural subsidies, petroleum-based fertilizers, industrial production, and the pressure placed on smaller farms. Jay, Mark, and Francis also explore whether ethically raised food necessarily tastes better, agreeing that the difference becomes especially clear with well-raised chicken, meat, eggs, and ripe seasonal produce. The conversation closes with local farms, CSAs, preserving tomatoes and fruit, and one essential summer commandment: do not refrigerate a good tomato.

Timestamps

0:00 Cookouts, real barbecue, and the hazards of roasting a whole pig
7:25 Jay Weinstein and the idea behind The Ethical Gourmet
10:25 One simple ethical food choice anyone can make
16:35 Can ordinary families afford ethically produced food?
19:00 The hidden costs of cheap food and agricultural subsidies
24:00 Local farms, CSAs, seasonal produce, and preserving the harvest
31:00 Why good tomatoes should never be refrigerated

Bio

Jay Weinstein is a chef, journalist, and author of The Ethical Gourmet. His work has appeared in publications including The New York Times and Travel + Leisure, and he previously cooked at Le Bernardin.

Info

The Ethical Gourmet by Jay Weinstein

C-A-J-A-C-H-I-N-A, https://lacajachina.com/

Local Harvest
https://www.localharvest.org/locations/

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Ray Isle returns to The Restaurant Guys nearly 20 years after his first appearance to consider where wine is headed and whether the industry has made something pleasurable unnecessarily difficult.

Why This Episode Matters

• Natural wine and biodynamic farming overlap in philosophy, but differ sharply in practice.
• Fifty years after the Judgment of Paris, its impact still reaches far beyond one famous blind tasting.
• Wine is facing real headwinds, including rising prices, intimidating choice and a growing disconnect from younger drinkers.
• The future of wine may depend less on prestige and more on accessibility, personal connection and the thrill of finding a great bottle at a fair price.

The Banter

Mark and Francis take aim at the advice that diners should never order the second-cheapest bottle on a wine list. They explain how restaurant pricing actually works and why that bottle may offer better value than conventional wisdom suggests.

Their better advice: tell someone who knows wine what you like, what you are eating and what you want to spend and ask them for help.

The Conversation

Ray Isle, Mark and Francis distinguish biodynamic farming from natural winemaking and examine the strengths, contradictions and occasional “woo-woo” surrounding both. Ray argues that natural wine has raised worthwhile questions about industrial production, even if some bottles cross the line from unconventional into simply flawed.

They revisit the Judgment of Paris on its 50th anniversary and explore how it gave California wine credibility, encouraged investment in Napa Valley and pushed established French producers to improve.

The conversation then turns to wine’s current identity crisis. Prices are rising, restaurant pours can feel prohibitive and consumers face a paralyzing number of choices. Ray makes the case for removing pretension, finding knowledgeable people to trust and remembering that wine is ultimately meant to bring people together.

They also discuss the Food & Wine Classic in Aspen, pairing serious wine with burgers and why discovering an exceptional $20 bottle can still be more exciting than opening one that costs $400.

Timestamps

01:00 – The second-cheapest bottle myth
05:20 – Ray Isle discusses Biodynamic and natural wine
20:20 – The Judgment of Paris at 50
31:00 – Wine prices, choice and younger drinkers
40:00 – The Food & Wine Classic in Aspen
45:00 – Value wines and Sancerre alternatives
51:00 – Learning wine through producers and regions

Bio

Ray Isle is the executive wine editor of Food & Wine and one of America’s leading wine writers. He is the author of The World in a Wineglass.

Info

Food & Wine
Ray’s book The World in a Wineglass
Food & Wine Classic in Aspen https://classic.foodandwine.com/
For other Restaurant Guys episodes about biodynamic farming check out Peter Byck and Shinn Vineyards

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Stage Left Steak
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https://www.catherinelombardi.com/

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This is a Vintage episode from 2005.

The Restaurant Guys welcome chef-owner Liza Queen of Queen’s Hideaway, a tiny Greenpoint restaurant where the menu changed with the market, the farmers, the smoker, and whatever was left in the kitchen by the end of the week.

Why This Episode Matters

• Liza Queen explains how Queen’s Hideaway built its menu around farmers, Greenmarket shopping, small quantities of meat, and improvisation.
• The episode captures a very specific moment in Brooklyn dining, before “market-driven neighborhood restaurant” became a polished concept.
• Liza talks honestly about the chaos of running a small restaurant: tiny kitchen, no air conditioning, long hours, broken equipment, landlord issues, and sudden press attention.
• The Guys connect Queen’s Hideaway to a larger idea: great food does not need pretense, luxury, or a white-tablecloth.
• The conversation is a snapshot of a restaurant that became a cult favorite by cooking personally, affordably, and very much in the moment.

Banter

Mark and Francis begin with a conversation about fine dining, New Jersey, and the complicated blessing of being so close to New York. They talk about what separates true hospitality from restaurant theater: a warm welcome, good service, and the feeling that the experience is being created for the guest.

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys welcome Liza Queen, chef-owner of Queen’s Hideaway in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. Liza explains that the restaurant does not really have a set menu because the cooking depends on what she can get from farmers, what meats are available, and what shows up at the Greenmarket. What sounds like a concept is, in her telling, mostly survival: if the restaurant runs out of one thing, she cooks the next best thing.

Liza talks about moving back east after cooking in Portland, where she felt limited by diners who were less adventurous than she wanted to be. In Brooklyn, she opened what she imagined as a neighborhood place, only to find people coming from Manhattan, upstate, and even New Jersey after early press and word of mouth spread. The restaurant is tiny, informal, and very personal, with a front-of-house and kitchen team made up largely of friends she describes as imported family.

The conversation moves through smoked meats, Wonderbread, broken ice cream makers, root vegetables, and the daily anxiety of building a menu from what the market provides. Liza is funny, humble, and matter-of-fact about the work: 8 a.m. to after midnight, six days a week, in a small kitchen with a very big personality.

After the interview, Mark and Francis reflect on why Queen’s Hideaway resonated. For them, the point is not trendiness or thrift alone; it is food cooked thoughtfully, with excellent ingredients, without snobbery. The episode becomes a defense of the finer things in life at every price point, from a serious restaurant meal to a great hot dog, a real waffle with ice cream, or a neighborhood place that simply cooks what it has and does it well.

Timestamps

0:00 Fine dining, New Jersey, and what makes hospitality feel gracious
6:15  Liza Queen joins the show and explains the no-set-menu approach
8:00 Liza’s experience and desire to open a place on the East Coast
15:00 Smoking meat, winter cooking, Wonderbread, pies, and the tiny kitchen reality
21:30 Why great food does not have to be expensive or pretentious
29:00 Why great food does not have to be expensive or pretentious

Bio

Liza Queen was the chef-owner of Queen’s Hideaway in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, a small, market-driven restaurant known for its changing menu, smoked meats, pies, and fiercely personal cooking. The restaurant became a cult favorite for its informal style, excellent ingredients, and no-pretense approach to neighborhood dining.

Info

Hell’s Backbone Grill episode (referenced in this episode)

https://www.restaurantguyspodcast.com/2390435/episodes/17017079

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This is a Vintage episode from 2006

George Motz joins The Restaurant Guys to talk about Hamburger America, his documentary celebrating eight beloved burger institutions and the regional traditions, family pride, old grease, beef, and stubborn conviction that make them more than just places to eat. 

Why This Episode Matters

• Before smashburgers became trendy and before Hamburger America became a restaurant, George Motz was documenting regional burger culture across the United States
• This episode captures an early moment in America’s burger renaissance, when great roadside burger stands still felt local, handmade, and deeply tied to place
• George explains why the hamburger is both a food story and an American story
• The conversation explores butter burgers, steamed cheeseburgers, old grease, grass-fed beef, and the fierce convictions of great burger makers
• The Guys debate what makes a real hamburger…and why foie gras burgers might actually be meatloaf

The Banter

Mark Pascal and Francis Schott discuss New York City’s crackdown on sous vide cooking and debate whether the health department should regulate emerging cooking techniques before banning them outright. On advice of imaginary counsel, Mark will not be offering any home sous vide instructions. 

The Conversation

George Motz joins The Restaurant Guys to discuss his documentary Hamburger America, a film exploring eight legendary burger restaurants across the United States.

What begins as a conversation about hamburgers quickly becomes a broader discussion about regional identity, family businesses, roadside Americana, and the passionate people preserving classic burger traditions. George explains the strict criteria he used to select restaurants for the film, including fresh beef, decades of continuous operation, and a story worth telling. Along the way, the conversation moves through Oklahoma longhorn burgers, Wisconsin butter burgers, steamed cheeseburgers, the legendary grease at Dyer’s in Memphis, Louis’ Lunch in New Haven, which claims to have invented the hamburger sandwich, and Chicago’s Billy Goat Tavern, where burger lore became part of American pop culture. 

More than a discussion about hamburgers, the episode becomes a celebration of old-school American food culture and the fiercely independent restaurants that helped define it.

Bio

George Motz is a filmmaker, burger historian, author, and television personality best known for his documentary Hamburger America. He later became one of the country’s leading authorities on regional American hamburgers and opened the restaurant Hamburger America in New York City.

Info

Hamburger America documentary

George Motz https://www.hamburgeramerica.com/

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Why This Episode Matters

• Before celebrity chefs became mainstream brands, chefs like Morou Ouattara and Gavin Kaysen were navigating what television exposure actually meant for serious working chefs.
• Morou Ouattara discusses bringing West African flavors into contemporary American cuisine years before global pantry ingredients became common.
• Gavin Kaysen reflects on competing as a young chef on The Next Iron Chef and how it shaped his career.
• The conversation becomes an unexpectedly thoughtful discussion about  chef identity, and the reality behind “celebrity chef” culture.

The Banter

Mark Pascal and Francis Schott open the show discussing the absurdity and honesty of chef awards and Anthony Bourdain’s irreverent influence on food culture. They explore the economics of Michelin-starred restaurants and why greatness may not be worth it.

The Conversations

Chef Morou Ouattara joins The Restaurant Guys to discuss appearing on The Next Iron Chef while already running a respected restaurant. He explains why competing against accomplished chefs felt entirely different from traditional reality television, and why staying true to his culinary identity mattered more than trying to satisfy judges. Morou also shares how his restaurant, Farrah Olivia, blended American cuisine with West African spices and flavors that television competition formats often couldn’t properly showcase.

Later, Gavin Kaysen discusses competing as one of the youngest chefs on the show, the camaraderie among contestants, and the strange reality of being edited for national television. The conversation expands into restaurant culture, chef professionalism, and Kaysen’s then-upcoming move to New York to lead Café Boulud.

Timestamps

• 00:00 — The Golden Clog Awards, Anthony Bourdain, and Michelin-star economics
• 06:45 — Morou Ouattara joins; competing on The Next Iron Chef
• 10:00 — Reality Cooking Shows vs. Kitchen Life
• 11:45 — Incorporating West African spices at Farrah Olivia
• 15:45 — Gavin Kaysen joins; Camaraderie behind the scenes of The Next Iron Chef
• 24:00 — Reality TV editing and food television culture
• 27:00 — San Diego’s evolving restaurant scene
• 30:30 — Gavin Kaysen's move to Café Boulud in New York

Bio

Morou Ouattara is an Ivory Coast-born chef known for blending West African flavors with contemporary American cuisine at Farrah Olivia in Alexandria, Virginia. He previously led the kitchens at Red Sage and Signatures by Karam.

Gavin Kaysen was named one of Food & Wine’s Best New Chefs and later became one of America’s most acclaimed chefs and restaurateurs. At the time of this interview, he was preparing to take over as executive chef of Café Boulud.

Info

• Morou Ouattara https://chefmorou.com/
• Gavin Kayson https://gavinkaysen.com/
• Café Boulud https://www.cafeboulud.com/

Support the show

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This is a Vintage episode from 2007

Why This Episode Matters

• If you’ve ever wondered why some salmon, oysters, or tomatoes taste better than others, this episode gets into the reasons.
• Jon Rowley explains how better fish handling changed the reputation of Copper River salmon.
• He breaks down why oysters pair well with only certain wines and how American oyster culture faded and returned.
• The conversation also explores compost, soil health, and its impact on flavor
• The big idea here is simple: great flavor starts long before food reaches the plate.

The Banter

Mark and Francis open with a conversation about the rise of “under the radar” bars and restaurants in Manhattan: places with no sign, no published number, or a deliberate effort to avoid becoming the next overcrowded hotspot. They talk through the difference between true neighborhood-style discretion and exclusivity used as marketing, with stops at Milk & Honey, Pegu Club, and the Waverly Inn.

The Conversation

Jon Rowley joins the show with the kind of résumé that makes food people pay attention. A former commercial fisherman, Rowley helped develop the fresh market for Copper River salmon. He explains how fish are handled dramatically improves flavor and texture.

The conversation then shifts to oysters, where Rowley discusses the Pacific Coast Oyster Wine Competition, finding wines to flatter oysters, and how American oyster culture disappeared and then slowly returned. He also talks about the role oysters play in healthier waterways.

In the final segment, Rowley turns from sea to soil. He talks compost, organic matter, and why healthier soil leads to more flavorful produce. It is a wide-ranging conversation, but the theme is consistent: better food comes from understanding the systems behind it.

Time Stamps

• 0:00 – Banter: the appeal and limits of “under the radar” bars and restaurants
• 8:25 – Jon Rowley joins: fisherman, oyster expert, and advocate for better flavor
• 9:40 – How Copper River salmon went from canned commodity to prized fresh fish
• 12:20 – The ideal fish-handling process
• 16:00 – Oysters and wine: what actually works and why
• 19:40 – The return of oyster culture in America
• 22:20 – Clean water matters for oysters and for their ecosystems 
• 25:15 – Mulling over compost: why soil health changes the flavor of produce

Guest Bio

Jon Rowley was a food consultant known for elevating the way chefs and consumers think about flavor. He helped establish the fresh market for Copper River salmon, championed oysters culture on the West Coast by founding Pacific Coast Oyster Wine Competition, and promoted soil health as pathway to better tasting food.

Info

Jon’s obituary

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/obituaries/top-chefs-remember-northwest-fish-missionary-jon-rowley/

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Why This Episode Matters

• A defining New York restaurant story about how Blue Ribbon helped reshape late-night dining in downtown Manhattan
• A look at hospitality that lasts through warmth, consistency, personality, and a refusal to chase trends
• A strong listen for restaurant people interested in staff culture, regulars, restaurant identity, and long-term success
• Real industry history from chef hangout culture to a driven model
• Plenty of memorable stories including old New York, Blue Ribbon Sushi, long-term employees, and the failed concept that came before it

The Banter

Mark and Francis open with Francis describing a solo night in New York that included a flamenco performance Mark would not enjoy and a stop for cigars at the Carnegie Club, a place completely comfortable being exactly what it is.

The Conversation

Eric and Bruce Bromberg, the brothers behind Blue Ribbon, join the show to talk about building one of downtown New York’s most influential restaurants. They discuss the Paris brasserie model that inspired Blue Ribbon, how the restaurant became a late-night home for chefs and restaurant people, and why hospitality mattered more than exclusivity.

They also share the story of the failed concept that preceded Blue Ribbon, the dramatic rebuild that led to its opening, and the values that shaped the restaurant from the beginning. Along the way, they talk about legendary staff members, the role of oysters in Blue Ribbon’s identity, the opening of Blue Ribbon Sushi, and the long view required to build restaurants that endure.

Time Stamps

0:00 – Opening banter: Francis’s solo night out, flamenco, and the Carnegie Club

6:10 – Eric and Bruce Bromberg join the show. How Blue Ribbon changed late-night dining in New York

15:00 – Blue Ribbon’s style of hospitality

20:45 – Alonzo, oysters, and the front-of-room identity of Blue Ribbon

29:50– The Crystal Room, tearing it apart, and rebuilding as Blue Ribbon

39:43 – Blue Ribbon Sushi, key people and rethinking Japanese restaurant hospitality

51:30 – Building legacy establishments, designing a menu you love, and creating restaurants that last

58:59 – The Guys’ mob story

Guest Bio

Eric and Bruce Bromberg are the brothers behind Blue Ribbon Restaurants, the hospitality group that began with Blue Ribbon Brasserie in SoHo in 1992. Over the years, they expanded the brand into multiple concepts, including Blue Ribbon Sushi and Blue Ribbon Fried Chicken, while building a reputation for strong hospitality, late-night dining, and restaurant culture built to last.

Info

Blue Ribbon Restaurants https://www.blueribbonrestaurants.com/

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Why This Episode Matters

• Eamon Rockey has worked at the highest levels of restaurant service, cocktail culture, beverage education, and spirits production, giving him a rare view across the industry.
• The conversation looks at how fine-dining standards, bar technique, and product development intersect in the real world.
• Mark, Francis, and Eamon dig into the difference between useful innovation and performative cocktail prep.
• The episode also explores what happens when hospitality people move into sales and brand-building.

The Banter 

Mark Pascal and Francis Schott open the show with stories: one that makes carrying bitters in your bowling bag seem entirely reasonable, and a highly sophisticated scam that nearly got $1,500.

The Conversation

 Eamon Rockey talks about his path from Eleven Madison Park to Betony, where he helped build one of New York’s standout fine-dining rooms and developed the clarified milk punch that influenced cocktail world. Rockey reflects on restaurant service, beverage instruction, and the evolution of Rockey’s Botanical Liqueur.

Time Stamps

• 0:00 – Opening banter: a failed cocktail and a near-miss scam
• 8:40 – Eamon Rockey joins
• 12:30 – Betony: origin, success and closing
• 18:30 – Clarified milk punch and Rockey’s role in bringing it back
• 24:00 – Cocktail culture: when technique stops helping the drink
• 32:00 – Teaching at ICE
• 36:40 – Different types of sales and skills required
• 46:45 – Rockey’s Milk Punch to Rockey’s Botanical Liqueur & where to find it
• 54:00 –  Mark and Francis discuss teaching at ICE in March 2020 

Guest Bio Eamon Rockey is a hospitality professional, beverage educator, and spirits entrepreneur whose career includes roles at Eleven Madison Park and Betony. He launched Rockey’s Botanical Liqueur, a spirits brand rooted in his long-standing work with clarified milk punch.

Info 

Rockey’s Botanical Liqueur rockeysliquer.com

How to Make Milk Punch https://youtu.be/BwlwFNyMqo0?si=zA33suspiHmapn7S

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