New leaders face a choice fast. Do you adapt to the organization you inherit, or reshape it around the way you lead?

In this conversation, Amir sits down with Gian Perrone, engineering leader at Nav, to unpack how org design really works in the first 30 to 120 days, and how to drive change without spiking anxiety or losing trust.

You will hear how Gian treats leadership as triage, why “listen and learn” is rarely passive, and what separates a thoughtful reorg from one that feels chaotic.

Key takeaways

Leaders almost always arrive with hypotheses, the real work is testing them without rushing to force a playbook

A reorg is not automatically bad, perception turns negative when the why is unclear and people feel unsafe

Over communicating helps, but thinking out loud too often can create noise, a structured comms plan keeps change steady

A simple way to spot a collaborative culture is to disagree in the interview and see how they respond

Managers are the front line in change, set clear expectations so teams hear a consistent story about what is changing and why

Timestamped highlights

00:01 What Nav does, and the real question behind org design for new leaders

01:59 Why “first 90 days” is usually triage, not passive observation

04:14 The reorg stopwatch, and why structure reflects your worldview

08:36 How to communicate change without destabilizing teams

12:54 A practical interview move to test whether a company truly collaborates

17:03 The manager layer, how Gian sets expectations so change lands well

A line worth repeating

“If you arrive and something is on fire, you are going to fix it.”

A few practical moves worth stealing

When you are new, write down your hypotheses early, then use real signals to confirm or kill them

Float a change as a real idea first, gather feedback, then come back with details before you finalize

Create a simple comms map of who hears what, when, and from whom, then follow it

Be matter of fact about changes, teams often mirror the tone you set

Call to action

If this episode helped you think more clearly about leadership and org design, follow the show and share it with one operator who is navigating change right now.