The Roundabout Show with Tim Courtney

Stephanie Nakano operated a side of community the industry rarely discusses: the internal community for Salesforce and Slack. Her work focused on employee culture, conduct, confidentiality, and trust and safety for the company's 70,000 employees. Incidents affected people's wellbeing and the company's exposure to reputational and legal risks which could run in the millions of dollars and above.

We talk about building an operating system for trust between leaders and employees, establishing governance and principles, securing leadership buy-in, and acting with full awareness of the trade-offs inherent in high-stakes decisions.

This conversation covers the nuts and bolts of the job, building an early-warning sensing function, the value of trust, and the emotional cost to professionals in roles like hers. Stephanie gives the exact language that moves an executive to fund the work, what words don't work, and the reframe she's used over and over with leaders that help them back the tough calls.

Key Themes

• Internal community as operating infrastructure. The value of internal communities is seen in retention, faster answers, reduced team friction, quicker onboarding, and a sense of connection with the company and its mission—while serving as a sensing function to catch issues early.
• Trust must be earned both ways. Community sits between leadership and employees; the function must earn trust of both constituencies and facilitate while factoring for their often diverging interests.
• Un-learning a scarcity mindset. Leadership has traditionally under-valued and misunderstood community work. Professionals must un-learn scarcity and advocate for the value of their programs.
• Governance gets you through a crisis. Under pressure, previously agreed values, principles, and procedures guide a team's response.
• AI can't generate this. Trust, legitimacy, and accountable judgment are all safely in the human domain.
  

Chapters

• 01:50 - Introduction to Stephanie and Community Management
• 06:00 - The job is like a city manager
• 07:34 - The Integrity Institute
• 11:50 - Constitutional AI, but no enforcement
• 17:42 - Internal community as operating infrastructure
• 25:48 - Moderation, enforcement, trust, and culture
• 34:40 - Earning trust with leadership and the community
• 37:17 - The word "community" is like "religion"
• 46:31 - Building the business case, and overcoming a scarcity mindset
• 58:23 - The culture gap
• 1:03:08 - Give leaders a reason to trust you
• 1:09:43 - A privacy leak reveals trust under pressure
• 1:19:49 - What grows in value in the age of AI

Links

• Stephanie Nakano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanieunakano/
• Integrity Institute: https://integrityinstitute.org
• "Examining Constitutional AI" series: https://www.integrityinstitute.org/blog/examining-constitutional-ai

About Tim

Tim works with leadership teams on community product strategy and co-creation programs. If this episode sparked something for your team, get in touch at roundabout.community.

At 17, Bjarne Tveskov answered a newspaper ad for a LEGO spaceship designer, quit school, and never went back. He designed the Monorail, early Blacktron sets, and helped shape LEGO's first digital products. Decades later, he prototyped Smart Brick concepts from his basement using childhood bricks alongside new ones. Every piece still connects.

This conversation maps the arc from bricks to digital tools to AI, held together by one idea: the best creative work happens at the resolution of imagination, not photorealism. Bjarne makes the case that repetition is a creative practice, point of view is the new competitive advantage, and weirdness might be the most valuable thing humans bring to a world of averaged-out content.

Key Themes

• Testing with kids reveals what designers miss. Children ignored the monorail and pointed to new helmet visors. A 10-year-old caught a tree growing on sand in the LEGO Minecraft prototype.
• Resolution over realism. Pixelated LEGO bricks' power is approximation. The Smart Brick speaks gibberish so kids fill in their own stories.
• Repetition as creative fuel. Bjarne takes the same forest walk daily, and posts the same Instagram motifs. Constants free the mind when one's job demands novelty.
• Point of view is the new moat. AI averages human knowledge. Bjarne's corporate naming clients burn through a thousand ChatGPT names, then call him.
• Modularity as philosophy. Bjarne loves combining existing elements in unexpected ways. 26 letters to make unique names. Childhood bricks that build new models.

Key Takeaways

• Your users will surprise you. Test early, with real people, and watch what they actually point to.
• LEGO's system proves that backwards compatibility compounds over decades. Old bricks work with new ones.
• Protect space for analog thinking. The creative ideas AI can't replicate often happens on a walk, not in front of a screen.
• Data overload is real. Indexing on "Vibes" can be a valid response to information overload.
• Cultivate what's weird about you. If the only things you can say are what an LLM can say, where's your unique value?
• Viral demand adds pressure to accelerate product timelines. LEGO Minecraft went from idea to shelf in six months when the norm was 18-24.

Chapters

03:07 - Becoming a LEGO Designer at 17

05:53 - The Birth of LEGO Space Factions

10:35 - Designing the Futuron Monorail

14:49 - LEGO Space Culture and the Internet

21:57 - LEGO Minecraft: From Viral Demand to Product

36:07 - Finding Joy in Repetition

39:00 - From Bricks to Digital: LEGO Darwin and Mindstorms

47:28 - The Smart Brick and Design Resolution

53:01 - Technology, Culture, and the Internet's Evolution

57:20 - Missing the Old Internet

1:02:18 - What Holds Value in the AI Era

1:06:05 - Vibes, Data Bankruptcy, and Human Feeling

1:16:09 - Bjarne's Red Thread: Combining Existing Elements

Links

• https://lovetobuild.net/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/tveskovdotcom/
• https://ideas.LEGO.com

About Tim

Tim works with leadership teams on community product strategy and co-creation programs. If this episode sparked something for your team: [email protected]

Thaniya Keereepart has spent 20+ years at the intersection of product, community, and behavioral economics, from MLB's first live streaming app to TED's founding head of product, scaling TED from 500K to 2 billion video views and building TEDx. She's navigated the tension between what a brand wants to be and what its community needs it to become at Patreon, Harvest, the Athletic, and MetaLabel.

Themes:

• Community as brand amplifier — Opening TED up to TEDx uncovered talent the mothership never would have found, including Brené Brown.
• The product-community circular relationship — Why product teams need a liaison role that makes user satisfaction a product metric.
• Creator legal infrastructure — MetaLabel and Artist Corporations build legal tools around how artists actually work, not how corporations do.
• Original thinking in the age of AI — AI content normalizes to the center of a bell curve, where non-AI assisted thinking allows for novelty.
  

Takeaways:

• If your community needs something and you don't build it, someone else will. Patreon → OnlyFans.
• Harvest waived fees during COVID. 2021 became their highest revenue year. Generosity is rewarded.
• Product leaders must face users directly. Shielded teams create misaligned products.
• Start with human problems, not technology solutions. Product before protocol.
  

Chapters:

2:14 - Growing Up on Airplanes

6:40 - Dreams Worth Helping to Actualize

13:25 - Building MLB's Live Streaming Product from Scratch

18:25 - TED's Founding Head of Product

20:59 - The Birth of TEDx

30:37 - Community as Brand Amplifier

34:54 - The Athletic and Sports Journalism's Future

45:12 - Harvest and the Business Case for Generosity

52:57 - The Circular Relationship Between Product and Community

58:50 - The Product Liaison Role

1:06:07 - MetaLabel and Artist Corporations

1:20:37 - AI and What Endures

1:28:51 - The Roundabout Brand Story

Links:

• https://thaniya.org
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/thaniya/
• https://metalabel.com
• https://theathletic.com
• https://getharvest.com

About Tim:

Tim works with leadership teams on community product strategy and co-creation programs. If this episode sparked something for your team: [email protected]

Customer experience isn't customer service with a bigger budget. It's the operating system. Jeannie Walters has spent two decades proving that to Fortune 500 teams, and her book Experience is Everything codifies the playbook.

Tim and Jeannie dig into what happens when CX leaders drive change from the middle of an org chart, why your B2B customers compare you to Uber, and how trust builds or erodes at scale.

Key Themes

• Community is downstream of experience. A strong community doesn't come from marketing. It comes from a product and culture that earn the right to gather people.
• Scores are indicators, not outcomes. Reporting NPS as an outcome loses executive attention. Tie CX to revenue and cost reduction.
• Proactive design beats reactive service. Customers have an experience whether you design it or not. Intentional vs. accidental is the difference between trust and churn.
• The influence job. CX leaders rarely control what needs to change. The work is influence: organizational goals, not feedback scores.
• Filling the vacuum. When communication stops, customers write their own stories. They're almost always negative.

Key Takeaways

Your customers compare you to every experience they've had, not just your competitors.

Start with a CX mission statement for your team. Results spread by osmosis.

Ask executives when they last talked to a customer. The discomfort opens the conversation.

Build feedback loops for frontline workers. They see problems before dashboards do.

Frustration is anger without control. Design for reassurance and agency at risk points.

Trust at scale requires systems: conscience, communication, consistency, credibility.

Chapters

02:29 - Origins in the Social Media Era

07:02 - The Story Behind the Book

09:25 - The Influence Problem

14:18 - Customer Service vs. Customer Experience

19:38 - Customer Experience as Innovation

24:41 - Making the Case with Tight Resources

28:47 - Mission Statements That Work

36:12 - Jeannie's Executive Worksheet Trick

41:53 - Building a CX Culture

50:19 - Moments of Truth

53:25 - The CX Case for your CFO

58:10 - The Four Cs of Trust

1:03:59 - Placing Customer Experience on the Org Chart

1:06:32 - Clarity Over Perfection

1:12:08 - Community is Downstream of Experience

1:19:56 - The Future of Customer Experience

1:23:11 - AI and Customer Experience

1:29:08 - Trust in a Cynical World

1:31:17 - Connecting with Jeannie

Links

• Experience is Everything by Jeannie Walters: experienceiseverythingbook.com
• Experience Investigators: experienceinvestigators.com
• Jeannie Walters on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeanniewalters/

About Tim

Tim works with leadership teams on community product strategy and co-creation programs. If this episode sparked something for your team: [email protected].

Steve Jennings has been building for four decades. Competitive cyclist turned founder of Maxim (Europe's top sports nutrition brand), then PepsiCo, open innovation, and now Jenerise, a creatine company co-founded with his daughter Rachael.

We cover why comfort kills your edge, how endurance sport trained him for entrepreneurship, building consumer community before the internet, and how brands must go all-in to win at open innovation. Steve tells the creatine origin story: a bag of white powder handed to him in a hotel, 47 days to a finished product and gold medals at Barcelona 1992. We close with how he's using agentic AI to de-risk product market fit.

Key Themes

• Discomfort and uncertainty are Steve's operating systems. He doesn't enjoy chaos, but he thrives on it. Endurance sport built him a tolerance most people never develop.
• Brand communities before the Internet. Maxim built consumer community through cycling clubs and showing up. No platforms. No playbook.
• Open innovation as DNA, not a campaign. LEGO went all-in with IDEAS.
• Creatine's second act. Now the focus is cognition, bone health, and longevity. The science caught up with what Roger Harris predicted in 1992.
• Building with AI at 65. Agentic tools compresses months of research into days.

Key Takeaways

• Product is the catalyst for community. Build something worth talking about.
• Five pillars of everyday human performance: nutrition, movement, sleep, environment, people.
• AI compresses time to market. Less capital means stronger negotiating position.
• It will always be human first. Modern tools augment this thesis rather than supplant it.

Chapters

02:39 - The Drive to Keep Building

06:47 - Thriving on Chaos and Uncertainty

10:59 - Cycling as Entrepreneurial Training Ground

19:10 - Regulating as a High-Energy Founder

25:05 - Five Pillars of Everyday Human Performance

32:21 - Building a Consumer Community Before the Internet

39:58 - Product as the Catalyst for Conversations

46:21 - LEGO Ideas and Open Innovation

49:11 - Why Brands Don't Go All In on Community

57:14 - You Have to Invite Customers into the Brand

1:02:14 - The Creatine Origin Story: Barcelona 1992

1:15:21 - Creatine Beyond Sports: Cognition and Longevity

1:19:55 - Building Jenerise with Daughter Rachael

1:25:02 - The Whitespace in the Creatine Market

1:28:04 - Agentic AI for De-Risking Innovation

1:38:20 - It's Always Human First

Links

- Steve Jennings on LinkedIn

- Jenerise

- Scientists may keep UK athletes one step ahead

- The Untold Story Behind Creatine, and How I Played a Pivotal Role In It Becoming a Global Supplement Phenomenon

About Tim

Tim works with leadership teams on community product strategy and co-creation programs. If this episode sparked something for your team: [email protected]

Julie Mossler built the comms function at Groupon through its IPO, ran brand at Waze through the Google acquisition, and has been a four-time CMO across web2.0, crypto, and AI. Now she runs Common Fortune, advising founders on go-to-market and category building.

This conversation covers building brands from the inside out, why small cross-functional teams outperform org charts, what AI is doing to marketing roles, and why attention might be the last real moat.

Key Themes

Culture builds the brand, not the other way around. Groupon's voice came from comedy writers and improv actors. Julie built Groupon's PR prowess on top of that culture, where most comms teams rein in their creatives.

Speaking of reins, AI might be automating more and more operations, but it will never know when to put the pony in the freight elevator.

Small teams with decision-making authority multiply output. The best ideas aren't limited to roles, titles, silos, or seniority.

AI is collapsing junior roles, not eliminating marketing. One hire who builds agents replaces the headcount that used to do copywriting. The CMO of the future builds tools and tells stories.

Sycophantic AI tells you your ideas are great. Real strategy can't be prompted. Read the zeitgeist, make bets, and learn from mentors who've honed their skills over decades.

Attention is the last moat. Anyone can ship a product or press release; the differentiator is getting people to care and to keep coming back.

Key Takeaways

• Hire for personality and judgment. Scripts can't compete with someone who knows how far to take it.
• Cross-functional teams surface growth ideas that fall through the cracks of individual job descriptions.
• Campaigns end. Infrastructure compounds. Invest in briefs and knowledge bases.
• If you can't critically evaluate AI output about your domain, you don't know your domain well enough.
• Don't build a Ferrari to drive to the grocery store. There's no point in automating operations for a business without traction.
• Find a mentor. Strategy is learned through people, not prompts.
  

Chapters

00:00 - Introduction

01:38 - The Collapse and Rebirth of Media

05:14 - Journalists Learning to Vibe Code

06:46 - How Julie Picks Winners

09:20 - Inside Groupon's Editorial Machine

14:07 - Improv Actors in Customer Service

19:38 - The Pony in the Freight Elevator

22:23 - Categories Worth Watching Now

28:46 - Small Cross-Functional Teams and Leveraging Volunteers at Waze

36:52 - Where the Junior Roles Go

40:20 - Strategy Can't Be Prompted

43:33 - Campaigns End, Infrastructure Compounds

48:56 - The Ethics of AI Tool Choices

53:10 - Human Skills Julie is Long On

58:01 - We Shape Our Tools, And Thereafter They Shape Us

1:01:15 - Don't Build a Ferrari to go to the Grocery Store

1:03:10 - Attention Is the Last Moat

1:06:07 - Julie's Novel and Accountability Time

1:09:16 - Limitless Possibility

Links

• Julie Mossler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliemossler/
• Groupon: http://groupon.com/
• Waze: https://www.waze.com/

About The Host

Tim Courtney works with leadership teams on community product strategy and co-creation programs. If this episode sparked something for your team, get in touch: http://roundabout.community.

LEGO® IDEAS turned fan creativity into a nine-figure product line. But the hard part wasn't the platform, it was integrating a disruptive innovation engine into an 80-year-old organization without killing the trust with users that made it work. Daiva Naldal led that integration, designing the systems that scaled a Japanese-language experiment into a global business, alongside host Tim Courtney who led Community and Experience for IDEAS between 2011-2018.

Tim and Daiva trace the arc from LEGO's near-bankruptcy in the mid-2000s through the first LEGO Minecraft set that hit its vote threshold in 24 hours, and beyond. They share the structural decisions that made scaling possible, and the willingness to walk away from commercial opportunities to protect community trust.

The views expressed by the host and guest are their own and do not represent those of any current or former employer. LEGO® is a trademark of the LEGO Group of companies which does not sponsor, authorize or endorse this podcast.

Key Takeaways

• Your most passionate users are leading indicators. Build the infrastructure to hear them.
• Open innovation isn't a campaign you turn on and off. Treat it that way and you'll only get campaign-level results.
• Commercial proof creates organizational pull. Match the core business's numbers and resistance turns into demand.
• Founders need to transition from being the decision system to designing one. That's the bottleneck between startup and scale-up.
• AI accelerates production. Human foresight and judgement become more valuable, not less.

Chapters

0:00 - Show Intro

02:10 - Daiva's LEGO Journey and the New Business Group

04:46 - The Muji Experiment and LEGO Architecture Origins

06:37 - Finding Innovation as a Craft

08:59 - The Wild West of LEGO CUUSOO

15:32 - Minecraft: When Fans Read the Market First

18:39 - Building the First LEGO Minecraft Set

22:27 - LEGO's Near-Bankruptcy and the Return to DNA

26:39 - Making Innovation Relevant to the Organization

28:58 - Closing the Circle: From Fans, For Fans

33:28 - Building Trust at Scale

36:28 - The Participation Promise

39:44 - Capabilities the Organization Gained

43:50 - Open Innovation Beyond LEGO

46:35 - Principles for Early-Stage Founders

53:31 - Scaling Mistakes Founders Make

58:35 - AI, Human Foresight, and What Stays Valuable

1:03:14 - Three Takeaways That Click

Links

• Daiva Naldal: https://DSTN-ventures.com
• Daiva on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daiva-staneikaite-naldal/
• LEGO IDEAS: https://ideas.LEGO.com

Danielle Baskin calls herself a situation designer — someone who creates bounded, episodic experiences that put people in novel interactions.

From staging a fake 7-Eleven onigiri launch that generated news coverage, to running BART Basel, a rogue art show that roams subway platforms, Danielle has built a playbook for manufacturing belief, testing ideas in public, and building cult followings without big marketing spend.

Danielle and Tim unpack how constraints drive creative output, her methods for validating ideas, and what her voice-based social app Dialup revealed about human connection — including how anonymous phone calls between strangers changed political beliefs.

The episode closes with a sharp exchange on AI's effect on cognition, relationships, and professional identity, and Danielle's take on what becomes more valuable when everything can be optimized.

Key Themes

Business theater as demand generation. Danielle didn't petition 7-Eleven or tweet at their brand account. She built a world where onigiri already existed at 7-Eleven and let people's excitement prove the market.

Permission structures and participation. BART Basel's irreverence gave hundreds of people permission to present art, tell stories, and be earnest without the gatekeeping of a gallery or application. The format creates the fans.

Constraints as creative engine. No advance notice, no large budgets. Danielle chooses creative constraints that keep her execution flexible.

Manufacturing belief and earning it. Danielle's work demonstrates the best satire is uncomfortably believable, and the reaction to it reveals latent demand, desire, or anxiety.

Human connection by design. Dialup (90K users, voice-based, anonymous) and Moonlight (interactive tarot platform, thousands of daily users) both create containers for deeper conversation — structured enough to feel safe, open enough to surprise.

AI, identity, and the moat of curiosity. Danielle's take: AI is eroding logical reasoning and gut intuition. The moat for creators is staying curious about things with unknown outcomes.

Key Takeaways

• Validate ideas with 2–3 critical friends, not superfans. The Bay Area's supportive culture can "push us to make worse art."
• Email collaborators the night before, not weeks ahead. It reduces overthinking, preserves optionality, and gets authentic participation.
• Anonymous connection before debate softens political positions. People adjust beliefs from personal anecdotes, not bullet-point arguments.
• In the age of AI, diversify your identity. Don't overindex on a career that could be compressed. Develop hobbies, in-person rituals, and creative practices that can't be automated.
• Danielle's moat: "I don't give up on being curious and experimental." Optimize for what excites you, not what plays well.

Links

• Danielle Baskin: https://daniellebaskin.com, @djbaskin (Twitter, TikTok, Instagram) / @danielle (Bluesky)
• Moonlight: https://moonlight.world
• Blue Check Homes: https://bluecheckhomes.com/
• Bart Basel: https://bartbasel.org/
• The Roundabout Show: https://roundabout.community/show

"People who can’t build spend most of their time trying to keep their job."

"Give the product to the people who can build it and care most about it."

Steven Walker has led design at Groupon and Quirky, some of the fastest growth stories of the web2.0 era. In this conversation we explore what actually makes products succeed under extreme pressure. Great products are rarely the result of process or hierarchy. Rather they emerge from strong teams, tight relationships, and builders empowered to execute their ideas.

Throughout the episode, Walker shares a consistent philosophy: the people closest to the work should own it. Designers and builders who can prototype and test ideas outperform organizations built around layers of management and coordination.

We also zoom out to larger questions about technology, education, and the role of craft in an AI-driven world. While automation will accelerate many parts of product development, Walker believes the human elements of relationships, community, and hands-on learning will become even more valuable.

We Explore

* Design Leadership in Hypergrowth - What it means to lead product and design while scaling from scrappy startup to global platform, including hiring and firing fast, and relentlessly protecting team quality.

* Builders vs. Managers - Builders who can prototype ideas outperform organizations where managers make the call.

* Relationships as Infrastructure - High-performing teams are built on trust and strong relationships, not reporting structures.

* Crowdsourcing Innovation - Platforms like Quirky and LEGO Ideas reveal how communities can surface and refine product ideas.

* Signal vs. Noise in High Growth Enviroments - The hardest challenge during hypergrowth is filtering valuable insight from massive volumes of input.

* Technology, Craft, and the Human Renaissance - As AI automates knowledge work, hands-on skills, education, and human connection become more important. Teaching people to build and understand systems creates deeper understanding than passively consuming technology or content.

Chapters

06:15 The Internet: A New Era of Knowledge Transfer

09:01 Groupon and the Rise of Designers who Code

19:00 What Changed After Groupon's IPO

22:09 Great Teams Come From Great Relationships

26:32 Quirky and Crowdsourcing Consumer Products

37:37 Give Ownership to Builders, not Managers

41:56 Wasted Time as a Metric

45:44 AI, Craft, and the Coming Renaissance

51:24 Maintaining Real-World Know-How

53:35 The Foundations of Strong Communities

58:22 Designer Fund: Investing in Desgin-Led Companies

01:04:40 Teaching Kids to Build: The Antidote to Screens

Links

Steven Walker https://www.linkedin.com/in/walkersteven/

Andrew Mason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Mason

Charles Adler https://charles-adler.com/

Designer Fund https://designerfund.com

Stripe https://stripe.com

More episodes: [http://roundabout.community/show

She moved to San Francisco knowing almost no one.

Three years later, she’d raised $9M and built one of the strongest operator networks in the city.

In this episode, I sit down with Vera Maslova, a partnership and fundraising specialist who moved to the Bay Area without an existing network and built one deliberately.

Since arriving, Vera has:

• Raised over $9M

• Convened dozens of curated founder dinners and small gatherings

• Built trusted relationships with CTOs, investors, and operators

• Served on nonprofit boards and developed long-term strategic partnerships

Years before she moved, Vera built a list of more than 300 people she wanted to meet. When she arrived, she started reaching out. Sometimes she followed up for two years. If someone didn’t explicitly say no, she stayed in motion.

Her dinners are curated environments: ten to twelve people, cross-disciplinary, high generosity, low performance. She sets the tone intentionally, inviting ease, curiosity, and depth.

We explore:

• Why most new relationships fade at the second touchpoint

• The difference between the market of attention and the market of trust

• Follow-up strategy

• Why consistency compounds faster than charisma

• How curated rooms outperform large ones

• What AI can amplify, and what it cannot replace

This conversation looks at trust: how it’s built, how it compounds, and how it becomes durable advantage in an automated, distracted world.

If you build products, teams, or ecosystems, the question isn’t visibility. It’s where you are intentionally designing trust.

Chapters

02:14 The Importance of Connection

10:19 Building Trust and Professional Relationships

18:57 The Power of Curated Gatherings

21:42 Follow-Up as Strategy

25:15 Consistency as Competitive Advantage

28:05 Tools for Building Relationships

29:23 The Hidden Trust Landscape

30:56 Authenticity in Professional Contexts

33:54 Cultivating Advocacy Through Relationships

36:42 Trust as Compounding Capital

39:41 Navigating Distrust in Society

43:08 Leading by Example

44:33 The Role of Mentorship

47:27 The Courage to Ask for Mentorship

52:11 Designing Memorable Experiences

56:35 When Intelligence Becomes Cheap

57:17 The Nature of Intelligence and AI

01:00:01 AI as Tool, Not Substitute

01:00:48 Listening as Leverage

01:04:22 Fundamentals of Human Connection

01:07:49 Building Relationships in a Digital Age

Links

Boardy – AI Connection Platform – https://boardy.ai
The Culture Map by Erin Meyer – https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Map-Understanding-Global-Workplace/dp/1625276522
How I Built This Podcast by Guy Raz – https://www.npr.org/sections/how-i-built-this/
Gustavo Dudamel – Conductor – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Dudamel

Guest Profile
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/vera-maslova

More episodes:
http://roundabout.community/show