The SALT Shaker Podcast

Counsel Justin Brown, a former member of our SALT team, rejoins us after spending four years in-house at a global energy company, bringing with him a new perspective on the challenges facing corporate tax departments and the role of outside counsel.

In the latest episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Justin joins Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor to discuss his move from private practice to industry and back again, including lessons learned from the oil and gas sector, how in-house experience shapes his approach to client service, and what makes the relationship between in-house and outside counsel most effective.

They also tackle an overrated/underrated debate on today's constant stream of "breaking news" alerts.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

What makes a state tax case newsworthy, and how do reporters keep up with developments across 50 states and countless jurisdictions? In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, hosts and Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor are joined by Perry Cooper, senior legal reporter at Bloomberg Law, for a behind-the-scenes look at state tax journalism. Perry discusses her path from law school to legal reporting, how she identifies emerging SALT trends, and the process of covering complex cases under tight deadlines. The conversation explores recent developments and constitutional challenges that could shape the future of state taxation. Plus, the group debates whether historical reenactments are overrated or underrated.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor welcome Partner Tim Gustafson to discuss the latest "A Pinch of SALT" column in Tax Notes State, which examines how taxpayers can navigate the procedural and strategic considerations that arise in state tax litigation when proceeding along the path from administrative appeals to courts of general jurisdiction.

The conversation explores the often-overlooked administrative stages of tax controversy and why decisions made long before a taxpayer reaches court can significantly impact a case's outcome. Using California and New York as examples, the group highlights how procedural rules vary by jurisdiction and what those differences mean for taxpayers evaluating litigation strategy. The discussion covers:

• Key considerations during administrative tax appeals and controversy proceedings;
• How administrative records, discovery rules, and evidentiary requirements can affect a case;
• Differences between California and New York tax controversy procedures;
• The role of standards of review in shaping litigation strategy; and
• Why taxpayers must carefully preserve issues and exhaust administrative remedies before seeking judicial review.

Plus, in this week's overrated/underrated segment, the group weighs in on school buses.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, hosts and Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor discuss the New York Appellate Division's recent decision in Paychex v. Department of Taxation and Finance. Although the underlying dispute concerns whether certain reimbursement receipts should be included in New York's business apportionment factor, neither the trial court nor the Appellate Division reached that issue. Instead, both courts dismissed the case on procedural grounds.

Jeremy and Chelsea walk through the distinction between the two courts' ripeness and exhaustion of administrative remedies analysis, explaining the Appellate Division's basis for concluding Paychex's challenge was not ripe for review, and explore how both courts analyzed the retroactive application of New York's corporate tax reform regulations to Paychex. They also discuss what the decision means for taxpayers considering challenges to New York tax regulations and why the substantive fight still lies ahead.

Plus, Jeremy and Chelsea debate whether Fridays are overrated or underrated.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

California has enacted one of its most significant sales tax changes in decades, expanding the state's sales tax base to include electronically delivered and remotely accessed software. In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, hosts and Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor are joined by Partners Michele Borens and Charlie Kearns, both of whom bring extensive state tax legislative experience and insight into the policymaking process, to discuss Senate Bill 122 and its far-reaching implications for taxpayers.

They examine California's historical treatment of software and digital products, the budget pressures that helped drive the legislation, and the unusually rapid legislative process that led to the bill's enactment. The conversation also explores the law's unique structure, key definitions and exclusions, multiple points of use provisions, and the significant compliance challenges businesses may face before the law takes effect.

Plus, the group weighs in on whether swimming is overrated or underrated, both as a sport and a summertime activity.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor welcome Deepa Menon, a fellow partner in the firm's Tax Practice Group who focuses her practice on privacy, cybersecurity and AI issues. Together, they discuss the data that tax departments hold, the tension between tax authorities' potential requirements for greater data retention and privacy laws that favor limiting such retention and exposure, and the increasing requests by tax authorities for personal information during audits.

Deepa explains why tax departments are increasingly subject to privacy obligations, how organizations can balance tax reporting requirements with data minimization principles, and the practical steps companies can take when responding to data requests. She also examines how AI is reshaping privacy and cybersecurity risks, highlighting the importance of vendor oversight, contractual protections and internal AI governance.

To close out the episode, the group weighs in on a pressing non-tax question: Are party favors overrated or underrated?

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partner Jeff Friedman sits down with Counsel Greg Matson to discuss his move to Eversheds Sutherland and reflect on a career spanning nearly every corner of state and local tax.

Greg shares insights from his time leading the Multistate Tax Commission (MTC), including the organization's core programs and its push for greater uniformity in state tax laws. Their conversation also highlights a notable shift toward collaboration between states and the business community, as well as key projects like the MTC's work on partnership audit rules.

The episode walks through Greg's career path, from the IRS and DC Office of Tax and Revenue to taxpayer advocacy at TEI, before closing with some personal reflections, military service stories, and a lighthearted debate on airport moving walkways.

Don't forget to check out Greg's SALT Pet of the Month feature, starring his one‑eyed parrot, Slick.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor are joined by Counsel Charles Capouet to break down Illinois' sweeping new tax legislation passed at the close of its legislative session, and signed by Governor Pritzker on Tuesday, June 16.

The group walks through several significant new taxes targeting the digital economy, including the newest state to impose a targeted advertising services tax, a new social media platform fee, and a first-of-its-kind digital asset privilege tax on cryptocurrency activity.

They break down how Illinois' targeted advertising tax compares to similar regimes in Maryland and elsewhere, including key definitions, exemptions, and the importance of programmatic advertising concepts in determining taxability in Illinois. The conversation highlights the broader trend of states pushing into digital and emerging markets, and the resulting litigation and policy questions.

The episode also includes a rapid-fire overview of other notable provisions in the Illinois budget legislation, including expanded taxation of prediction markets and fantasy contests, as well as new limitations on corporate net operating loss carryovers.

The episode concludes with an overrated/underrated debate on s'mores, and the proper way to toast a marshmallow.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

The long-awaited New York State budgetGovernor Hochul signs New York FY 2027 Budget into law | SALT ShakerGovernor Hochul signs New York FY 2027 Budget into law | SALT Shaker has arrived, and while it may not have produced major headline-grabbing tax increases, there's plenty beneath the surface worth unpacking.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor are joined by Ken Pokalsky, Vice President of Government Affairs at The Business Council of New York State, to break down what made it into the budget, what didn't – and how the budget's tax provisions will impact New York taxpayers moving forward.

Ken shares an insider's perspective from Albany, exploring why this year's negotiations stretched well past the April 1 deadline, how competing political priorities shaped the final deal, and why, in his words, the takeaway might be: "It could have been worse."

The conversation also touches on early warning signs for next year's budget cycle. And, of course, the episode wraps with a lighthearted debate on whether punctuality is overrated or underrated.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.

In this episode of the SALT Shaker Podcast, Partners Jeremy Gove and Chelsea Marmor break down the business versus non-business income divide. They also explore how the Multistate Tax Commission's recommended shift in terminology – from business/non-business income to apportionable/non-apportionable income – refocuses the analysis on whether income is constitutionally apportionable.

Chelsea and Jeremy then walk through the two key tests used in determining business income: the transactional test and the functional test, and how these tests often overlap.

Their discussion centers on the Arkansas Supreme Court's recent decision in Hudson v. US Beef, involving the sale of franchise operations. The court found the gains from the sale were non-business income under the three requirements in Arkansas' business income definition. Chelsea and Jeremy also unpack the dissent, which argued the majority improperly blended the functional and transactional tests, underscoring how fact-specific – and potentially blurred – this analysis can be.

The episode concludes with key takeaways on applying these tests across jurisdictions, along with an overrated/underrated debate on summer staples.

For questions or comments, email [email protected]. Subscribe to receive regular updates hosted on the SALT Shaker blog.