Judge Sheila Calloway sees children during some of the worst moments of their lives: right after they've been accused of committing a crime.

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*But she holds fast to the philosophy that children are redeemable and should be given the opportunity to change. "We as a nation have to make a change from what we think about as justice," she says. "We use incarceration as the answer for almost everything, and it cannot be the answer."

In this episode, she talks to WPLN's Emily Siner about the relationship between empathy and justice.

Support our podcasts by donating at wpln.org/give and noting that you listen to Movers & Thinkers. Hear previous episodes of Movers & Thinkers on our website, Apple Podcasts or Google Play Music. Read the transcript of this episode here.