What can schools learn from the ways people learn outside of school?

In this episode of The Science of Learning, Keith Sawyer talks with developmental psychologist and learning scientist Barbara Rogoff about the sociocultural approach to learning and development—one of the most influential perspectives in the learning sciences.

Rogoff's research emphasizes that learning is fundamentally social and cultural. Children learn not only through formal instruction, but through participation in families, communities, workplaces, and everyday activities. The conversation explores how learning happens through collaboration, observation, apprenticeship, and guided participation.

The discussion explores:

• Why learning is fundamentally social
• How children learn through participation in communities
• Culture and human development
• Guided participation and apprenticeship
• What schools can learn from families and communities
• Why many forms of learning are invisible in traditional schooling
• Sociocultural approaches to education

Barbara Rogoff is Distinguished Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and one of the foundational scholars in sociocultural theories of learning and development.

YouTube video interview: https://youtu.be/NgTDfliTcVY

Music by license from SoundStripe:

• "Uptown Lovers Instrumental" by AFTERNOONZ
• "Miss Missy" by AFTERNOONZ
• "What's the Big Deal" by Ryan Saranich

Produced and hosted by Keith Sawyer

Copyright © 2026 Keith Sawyer

Why haven't computers transformed education the way people expected?

In this episode of The Science of Learning, Keith Sawyer talks with Harvard professor and learning scientist Chris Dede about why technology has so often failed to improve schools—and what educational technology looks like when it is aligned with the science of learning.

Chris argues that schools have largely used computers to reinforce an outdated model of education based on lectures, passive learning, memorization, and standardized testing. Instead, he advocates for active learning, inquiry, collaboration, simulations, project-based learning, and authentic assessment.

The conversation explores:

• Why schools resist change
• Immersive simulations and game-like learning
• Inquiry-based science education
• The limits of standardized testing
• Lifelong learning and the "60-year curriculum"
• Generative AI in education
• How teachers can use AI without undermining learning

Chris Dede is Professor in Learning Technologies at Harvard University and one of the leading scholars in educational technology and the learning sciences.

www.chrisdede.com

Music by license from SoundStripe:

• "Uptown Lovers Instrumental" by AFTERNOONZ
• "Miss Missy" by AFTERNOONZ
• "What's the Big Deal" by Ryan Saranich

Produced and hosted by Keith Sawyer.

Copyright © 2026 Keith Sawyer

What does science reveal about how people actually learn?

Learning is one of the most important things human beings do—but it's also widely misunderstood. Popular culture is filled with myths, trends, and folk wisdom about teaching and learning, much of it unsupported by research.

In The Science of Learning, Dr. Keith Sawyer talks with leading researchers about memory, attention, creativity, collaboration, technology, teaching, and human development. The podcast explores what evidence-based research reveals about how people learn, and how learning environments can be designed more effectively.

This show is for anyone who wants to learn—and anyone who wants to help others learn: teachers, students, parents, designers, developers, leaders, and lifelong learners.

The Science of Learning is produced and hosted by Keith Sawyer, Morgan Distinguished Professor of Educational Innovations at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and editor of The Cambridge Handbook of the Learning Sciences.

You can also watch this show on YouTube.

Subscribe for new episodes of The Science of Learning.

For more information

Keith Sawyer's web site: www.keithsawyer.com

Copyright © 2026 Keith Sawyer