The Serious Games Podcast

The Serious Games Podcast

By Julian KeaBusinessEducationManagement
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The Serious Games Podcast episodes

  • Challenge it!
    Interview with Sabina Lammert

    Sabina Lammert of leadventure in Munich built Challenge it! after watching the same thing happen at the end of every workshop: six hours of good thinking, then one exhausted final hour that produces action points like "let's improve our communication". Her game hands the coaching questions to the participants, who rate each other's actions on a one to ten scale of gut feeling, then talk each other into the green. The reframe: the facilitator asking the hard questions at hour seven helps nobody, so build a game that makes the group ask them instead.

    Today's guest and Challenge it!

    • Sabina Lammert on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabina-lammert
    • leadventure: https://www.leadventure.de/
    • Challenge it! in the shop, German and English printed editions: https://leadventure.myshopify.com/
    • Sabina's write-up of the game: https://www.leadventure.de/post/challenge-it-mit-leichtigkeit-zu-erfolgversprechenden-ma%C3%9Fnahmen
    • Leadventure's "Challenge it!" on the Miroverse: https://miro.com/templates/leadventures-challenge-it/
    • Anna Wörner, co-founder of leadventure: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-w%C3%B6rner/

      • Referenced in the episode

      • Fearless Journey, the game Sabina borrowed the card mechanic from: https://fearlessjourney.info/
      • Play4Agile, where the coaching cards were written in an Open Space session: https://play4agile.wordpress.com/
      • The 3D-Welten-Methode on the Serious Games Podcast: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/29-3d-welten-methode
      • Sabina's first appearance on this show, the Commuter Game: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/12-commuter-game
      • Manage Agile: https://summit-community.de/format/konferenz/

        • About Julian and the Serious Games Podcast

        • Music by Podington Bear: https://soundofpicture.com
        • Julian Kea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
        • Serious Games for Serious Change Community in Berlin: https://luma.com/SG4SC
        • Please share your feedback and propose guests and games at [email protected] or on LinkedIn.
          • 55 min
        • The Management Challenge
          Interview with Hidde de Jong & Edwin de Vos

          Edwin de Vos owns The Management Challenge and Hidde de Jong stopped teaching and now plays it with his Business Continuity students at Saxion in Deventer. Teams run a fictional company on ten energy points a quarter, pick from over a hundred measures, and get feedback that always lands one quarter late. The reframe: the facilitator's job is to wait to be asked, because the struggle is where the learning sits.

          Today's guests and The Management Challenge

          • Hidde de Jong on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hidde-de-jong-a8639413/
          • Edwin de Vos on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwindevos/
          • The Management Challenge: https://managementchallenge.eu/en/
          • Edwin de Vos, Playful Organisatieadvies website: https://www.edwindevos.nl/
          • Saxion University of Applied Sciences, Deventer: https://www.saxion.edu/
          • The Management Challenge's Participant Guide: https://managementchallenge.eu/en/guide/#about

            • Referenced in the episode

            • INK management model, Instituut Nederlandse Kwaliteit, the Dutch Quality Institute: https://www.ink.nl/
            • EFQM model, European Foundation for Quality Management, the European name for the same model: https://efqm.org/
            • BCI Good Practice Guidelines (what Hidde calls the collected wisdom of all business continuity professionals in the world): https://www.thebci.org/certification-training/good-practice-guidelines.html
            • Topaasia®, episode 45 with Jussi Galla and Wiro Kuipers: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/45-topaasia

              • About Julian and the Serious Games Podcast

              • Music by Podington Bear: http://soundofpicture.com
              • Julian Kea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
              • Serious Games for Serious Change Community in Berlin: https://luma.com/SG4SC
              • Please share your feedback and propose guests and games at [email protected] or on LinkedIn.
                • 1 hr 22 min
              • The Adaptive Identity Game
                Interview with Sylvia Taylor

                Sylvia Taylor designed the Adaptive Identity Game after her third layoff. Three decks, one partner, and a single rule: your job title is banned. The reframe: adaptability is not about becoming someone else, it is about expanding who you already are.

                Today's guest and The Adaptive Identity Game

                • Sylvia Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sylviataylor/
                • Flux@Work, Sylvia's company: https://www.fluxatwork.com/
                • The Adaptive Identity Game, sign up to hear when the Kickstarter goes live: https://www.adaptiveidentitygame.com/
                • Help shape the game through the playtest community - Application form: https://forms.gle/atzdFZ4NQgYpqWJZ7

                  • Experiences and organizations mentioned

                  • April Rinne, Flux: 8 Superpowers for Thriving in Constant Change: https://fluxmindset.com/
                  • Agile Lean Europe (ALE), the unconference where the game debuted on index cards: https://agilelean.eu/
                  • Liberating Structures: https://www.liberatingstructures.com/
                  • LSLab Berlin – the Liberating Structures Berlin community: https://luma.com/LSLabBerlin

                    • About Julian and the Serious Games Podcast

                    • Music by Podington Bear: soundofpicture.com
                    • Julian Kea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                    • Serious Games for Serious Change Community in Berlin, where Julian played the game: https://luma.com/SG4SC
                    • Please share your feedback and propose guests and games at [email protected] or on LinkedIn.
                      • 1 hr 12 min
                    • The Glorious 2030s
                      Interview with Eli Godde & Gaëlle Shearn

                      Eli Godde and Gaëlle Shearn facilitate The Glorious 2030s, a French-born conversational workshop that drops participants into a utopian future through guided meditation, three personal questions on a pocket-sized blue card, and oracle cards featuring real initiatives already underway today. The reframe: utopia is not a destination but a muscle, and training it with strangers in a room for three hours produces much more agency than years of reading about what is going wrong.

                      Todays guests and The Glorious 2030s

                      • Eli Godde: https://de.linkedin.com/in/elisabeth-godde-b61698207/de
                      • Gaëlle Shearn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaelle-shearn/
                      • Website: https://www.2030glorieuses.org/
                      • Gaëlle and Eli's workshops: https://linktr.ee/utopiamuscletraining
                      • Julien Vidal (creator): https://www.linkedin.com/in/vidal-julien/

                        • Experiences and organizations mentioned

                        • Seeding for Future: https://seedingforfuture.wixsite.com/accueil
                        • Wings of the Ocean: https://www.wingsoftheocean.com
                        • Reclaim: Ecofeminist Alliance (Berlin): https://www.reclaim-ev.org/
                        • Seksismo Fresko (Sexism Fresco): https://www.fresque-du-sexisme.org/en
                        • Diversity Fresco: https://fresquedeladiversite.org/en/
                        • Berliner Nuss from GoNuts GmbH: https://www.berliner-nuss.de/
                        • Article "It's True—You Really Should Talk to Your Plants": https://www.thespruce.com/should-you-talk-to-your-plants-3972298?utm_source=perplexity

                          • Selected academic resources on utopia

                          • Muñoz, J. E. (2009). Cruising Utopia: The Then and There of Queer Futurity. NYU Press: https://www.vfw.or.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Munoz_CruisingUtopia_Introch1.pdf
                          • Eskelinen, T. (Ed.). (2020). The Revival of Political Imagination: Utopias as Methodology. Zed Books: https://doi.org/10.5040/9781350225633
                          • Cooper, D. (2014). Everyday Utopias: The Conceptual Life of Promising Spaces. Duke University Press: https://www.dukeupress.edu/Everyday-Utopias

                            • About Julian and the Serious Games Podcast

                            • Music by Podington Bear: soundofpicture.com
                            • Julian Kea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                            • Serious Games for Serious Change Community in Berlin: https://luma.com/SG4SC
                            • Please share your feedback and propose guests and games at [email protected] or on LinkedIn.
                              • 1 hr 15 min
                            • Playposium
                              Interview with Adam Lusby and Dr. Maarten Koeners

                              Adam Lusby and Maarten Koeners explain why Playposium has no published minute-by-minute schedule, how a vegan vampire dinner replaces awkward conference networking, and what happens when you stop teaching the dance moves and start DJing the room.

                              1. Adam Lusby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamlusby/
                              2. Dr. Maarten Koeners on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-maarten-koeners-85aa0a37/
                              3. Playposium 2026 at Exeter, 22 to 25 June: https://www.playposium.com/
                              4. InnoPlay website: https://www.innoplay.co.uk/
                              5. University of Exeter: https://www.exeter.ac.uk/
                              6. Professors at Play: https://professorsatplay.org/
                              7. National Institute for Play: https://nifplay.org/
                              8. Stuart Brown's book "Play: How It Shapes the Brain, Opens the Imagination, and Invigorates the Soul": https://www.porchlightbooks.com/products/play-stuart-brown-9781583333785
                              9. Stanford D.School: https://dschool.stanford.edu/
                              10. Dobble / Spot It: https://www.spotitgame.com/
                              11. Happy Salmon: https://www.explodingkittens.com/products/happy-salmon
                              12. Serious Games Podcast episode with Matthias Poulsen on CounterPlay Festival: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/46-counterplay
                              13. Serious Games Podcast episode with Dr. Philip Busch on Serious Play Conference: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/48-serious-play-conference-europe
                              14. #TheDebriefingCube website: https://www.kilearning.net/en/thedebriefingcube/
                              15. Music by Podington Bear: soundofpicture.com
                              16. Julian Kea on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                              17. Please share your feedback and propose guests and games at [email protected] or on LinkedIn.
                                18. 1 hr 8 min
                              18. Drake's Dice
                                Interview with Daniel Larose

                                Are we alone in the universe? For decades, that question has been tackled with complex formulas. Drake’s Dice flips the experience: you explore the Drake Equation through dice, risk, peer review, and discovery cards, without doing any math. Game designer Daniel Larose shares how he and Alissa Pott built a science outreach board game designed to stand on its own at home, while staying grounded through expert review.

                                1. Daniel Larose on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/riotlarose/?locale=en

                                2. Alissa Pott on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alissa-pott/?locale=en

                                3. Larose des Jeux website: https://larosedesjeux.com/

                                4. Drake’s Dice website: https://drakesdice.com/

                                5. Drake’s Dice on wemakeit: https://wemakeit.com/projects/drake-s-dice/show/comments

                                6. FEJEST AFRIQUE: https://fejest.org/

                                7. Cartomerveilles Association: https://www.cartomerveilles.ch/

                                8. European Astrobiology Institute: https://www.esf.org/eai/

                                9. COSPAR Committee for Space Research: https://cospar2026.org/

                                10. European Space Agency: https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Careers_at_ESA

                                11. CERN (European Council for Nuclear Research): https://home.cern/

                                12. NASA Artemis program: https://www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/artemis/

                                13. Drake equation (Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

                                14. Kessler syndrome on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

                                15. Fame Lab Switzerland: https://www.famelab.ch/

                                16. Carl Sagan “Pale Blue Dot”: https://www.planetary.org/worlds/pale-blue-dot

                                17. |Hop> the quantum game – Another game by Daniel Larose: https://www.hopquantumgame.com/en/

                                18. Jungle Speed: https://www.zygomatic-games.com/en/game/jungle-speed/

                                19. Dixit: https://www.libellud.com/en/our-games/dixit/

                                20. Twilight Imperium Fourth Edition: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-imperium-fourth-edition/

                                21. Serious Play Conference Europe in Mainz: https://eu.seriousplayconf.com/

                                22. ISAGA conferences: https://isaga.com/our-activities/conferences/

                                23. President Clinton's Remarks About Mars Life Evidence, August 7, 1996: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt-eToev944

                                24. Music: "Blanks" by Podington Bear (CC BY-NC 3.0, soundofpicture.com). A big thank you for sharing this wonderful track.

                                25. For feedback or to share your own experiences, please reach out at [email protected] or connect with Julian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/

                                  26. 1 hr 26 min
                                26. Serious Play Conference Europe
                                  Interview with Dr. Philipp Busch

                                  The Serious Play Conference comes to Europe for the first time. Dr. Philipp Busch, co-organizer of the first European edition in Mainz, unpacks what it takes to move game-based learning from niche enthusiasm to cross-sector cultural change — and what happens when the right people finally share a room.

                                  1. Philipp Busch on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipp-busch/
                                  2. Serious Play Conference Europe 2026. Mainz, 18–19 June 2026: https://eu.seriousplayconf.com/
                                  3. Serious Play Conference North America. Durham, August 5-7 2026: https://seriousplayconf.com/homepage/
                                  4. Sue Bohle – Founder of the Serious Play Conference – on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suebohle/
                                  5. Paul Darvasi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-darvasi-ph-d-431688126/
                                  6. Elisa Navarro Chinchilla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisachinch/
                                  7. Gold Bug Interactive in Montreal: https://goldbuginteractive.com/
                                  8. Mind Games – Philipp's company: https://www.mind-games.online
                                  9. International Serious Play Awards: https://eu.seriousplayconf.com/awards/
                                  10. Serious Play Conference on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/seriousplayconference
                                  11. Serious Play Conference on Discord: https://discord.gg/xbT6kYCTqy
                                  12. Philpp's book "Effective Serious Games Development. A Step-by-Step Guide for Beginners". Routledge, Abingdon, UK, 2025: https://www.routledge.com/Effective-Serious-Games-Development-A-Step-by-Step-Guide-for-Beginners/Busch/p/book/9781032610139
                                  13. Meta-Analysis of the Cognitive and Motivational Effects of Serious Games by Wouters, Pieter & Nimwegen, C. & Oostendorp, H. & Spek, Erik. (2013): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263936571_A_Meta-Analysis_of_the_Cognitive_and_Motivational_Effects_of_Serious_Games
                                  14. Human Resource Development Quarterly Article (2024) from Shukla, Sanket and Ashwani “Factors affecting transfer of online training: A systematic literature review and proposed taxonomy”: https://doi.org/10.1002/hrdq.21518
                                  15. Serious Games Podcast episode on the Counterplay Festival with Matthias Paulsen: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/46-counterplay
                                  16. Johannisnacht Mainz — city festival running alongside the Serious Play Conference: https://www.mainzer-johannisnacht.de/en/
                                  17. Gamescon by Koelnmesse GmbH: https://www.gamescom.global/en
                                  18. Happy Working Podcast with Manuel Grassler ("Spielen ist eine Superpower") – in German language: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/happy-working/id1876027540?l=en-GB&i=1000767188052
                                  19. Lernkino featuring compact keynote impulses from Dr. Philipp Busch and Julian Kea. Mainz, 17 June 2026: https://lernkino.com/tour/mainz-lernkino
                                  20. Discount code for the Serious Play Conference Europe 2026 for Serious Games Podcast listeners: SERIOUSGAMESPODCAST20, https://eu.seriousplayconf.com/registration/
                                  21. Music: "Blanks" by Podington Bear (CC BY-NC 3.0, soundofpicture.com). A big thank you for sharing this wonderful track.
                                  22. For feedback or to share your own experiences, please reach out at [email protected] or connect with Julian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                                    23. 53 min
                                  23. The Climate Business Challenge
                                    Interview with Tim Riedel and Jan Störkel

                                    The Climate Business Challenge helps organizations link climate ambition with real business constraints instead of feel‑good wishful thinking. Creator Tim Riedel and facilitator Jan Störkel explain how their 4‑hour workshop moves from systemic awareness (how our economic system drives growth at all costs) to redesigning business models and generating concrete, organizations‑specific ideas.

                                    1. Tim Riedel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/planetgroupstimriedel
                                    2. Jan Störkel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-stoerkel/
                                    3. Climate Business Challenge – Official website: https://www.climate-business-challenge.com/
                                    4. Climate Business Challenge – Image film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5v_omb0p-k
                                    5. Climate Business Challenge – Image film in German language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQOppsIuiWk
                                    6. PlanetGroups website: https://planetgroups.net
                                    7. Jan Störkel's Prisma Workshops website: https://www.prismaworkshops.de/
                                    8. Climate Fresk – Collaborative climate workshop that inspired Tim’s work: https://climatefresk.org/
                                    9. Ikigai ("a reason for being"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai
                                    10. Everett Rogers' Diffusion of Innovations theory ("Reaching the 16%"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusionofinnovations
                                    11. World Bee Day: https://www.gov.si/en/registries/projects/world-bee-day/
                                    12. Music: "Blanks" by Podington Bear (CC BY-NC 3.0, soundofpicture.com). A big thank you for sharing this wonderful track.
                                    13. For feedback or to share your own experiences with gamified dialogue, reach out at [email protected] or connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                                      14. 1 hr 5 min
                                    14. CounterPlay Festival
                                      Interview with Mathias Poulsen

                                      CounterPlay is a playful festival and global community that invites adults to reclaim play as a way of living, learning, and being together. In this episode, founder Mathias Poulsen shares how building a “play commons” gives us the courage to unhide play in everyday life – from libraries and design schools to horses, soap bubbles, and serious work.

                                      1. Mathias Poulsen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathiaspoulsen/
                                      2. International Play Festival CounterPlay ’26 homepage: https://www.designskolenkolding.dk/en/counterplay-26
                                      3. CounterPlay Festival documentary by Aarhus Global Media (Part 1): https://youtu.be/xIdowtXuCvg
                                      4. CounterPlay Festival documentary by Aarhus Global Media (Part 2): https://youtu.be/vtugkhU8524
                                      5. CounterPlay ’26 Program: https://files.designskolenkolding.dk/production/files/Konference/CounterPlay.pdf?dm=1775644852
                                      6. CounterPlay - A Playful Community on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/16187100/
                                      7. Lab for Play Design at Kolding School of Design: https://www.designskolenkolding.dk/en/research-development/labs-and-hubs/play-and-design
                                      8. Kolding School of Design: https://www.designskolenkolding.dk/
                                      9. CounterPlay ’26 Call for Submissions (closed): https://www.counterplay.org/wp-content/plugins/pdf-poster/pdfjs-new/web/viewer.html?file=https://www.counterplay.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/CounterPlayCallfor_Play.pdf
                                      10. Dokk1 (Aarhus Public Library), former home of CounterPlay: https://dokk1.dk/english
                                      11. Bart Durand on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartdurand/
                                      12. Eugen Fink on Wikipedia (“Play gives us the present”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Fink
                                      13. Music: "Blanks" by Podington Bear (CC BY-NC 3.0, soundofpicture.com). A big thank you for sharing this wonderful track.
                                      14. For feedback or to share your own experiences with gamified dialogue, reach out at [email protected] or connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                                        15. 57 min
                                      15. Finding the Top Topic with Topaasia®
                                        Interview with Jussi Galla & Wiro Kuipers

                                        Jussi Galla and Wiro Kuipers join Julian to unpack Topaasia® – a card-based gamified dialogue tool that gets any group to the one thing that actually matters, in just 75 minutes. No dominant voices. No endless stickies. Just one rule, one topic, and the "alibi" as built-in design feature, which gives people permission to raise the topics they have always been too cautious to name. If you've ever left a meeting wondering why nothing got decided, this episode is for you.

                                        1. Jussi Galla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jussigalla/
                                        2. Wiro Kuipers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wirokuipers/
                                        3. Topaasia® website (Hint: Look out for the no-strings-attached free 30-day trial!): https://topaasia.com/en/
                                        4. Topaasia® on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/topaasia/
                                        5. Topaasia® research/study webinar with Prof. J. Tuomas Harviainen, from Tampere University: https://youtu.be/jO47KyOooEg
                                        6. Topaasia® use case on Strategy Implementation: https://topaasia.com/en/strategic-communications-implementation-gamified-at-granlund/
                                        7. Topaasia® tutorial on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z349xP_c1EU
                                        8. Available Topaasia® decks: https://topaasia.com/en/topaasia-decks/
                                        9. Lewis Deep Democracy (LDD) website: https://www.lewisdeepdemocracy.com/
                                        10. Serious Games Podcast episode with Per Kristiansen on the LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® method: https://seriousgames.podigee.io/20-the-lego-serious-play-method
                                          11. 10.Serious Play Conference Europe in Mainz: https://eu.seriousplayconf.com/
                                        11. CounrterPlay in Kolding: https://www.designskolenkolding.dk/en/counterplay-26
                                        12. #play14 in Berlin: https://play14.org/de/events/berlin-2026-06
                                        13. Discontinued Unstuck app by Unstuck, LLC on the internet archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20160315010935/http://www.unstuck.com/index.html
                                        14. Music: "Blanks" by Podington Bear (CC BY-NC 3.0, soundofpicture.com). A big thank you for sharing this wonderful track.
                                        15. For feedback or to share your own experiences with gamified dialogue, reach out at [email protected] or connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kilearning/
                                          16. 1 hr 5 min

                                        About The Serious Games Podcast

                                        From the publisher's feed

                                        The Serious Games Podcast explores interactive methods and serious games for workshops, meetings, trainings, and conferences, with a sharp focus on facilitation craft, debriefing, and real world…

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