In this Episode, Tom, Michael and Emil talk about the element of luck in real estate investing and how to put in the work to be ready to move when opportunity arises.
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Transcript:
Tom:
Greetings and welcome to the remote real estate investor. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about the concept of chance luck. It goes by many names. And how does it apply to real estate investing? How can you tip the scales in your favor and what are the hosts thoughts on the different aspects of luck? All right, let's do it.
Tom:
All right, guys. So today's episode, as we alluded to in the intro, we're going to be talking about the elements of luck and how it applies to real estate investing. And before we get into any specific, I'd love to hear from both you guys, a meal and Michael, are you guys lucky? What are your thoughts on luck and real estate investing at a high level and lucky that's, you know, I ask that questions in your life. And it's a interview question that a lot of companies use where they ask if an applicant is lucky and they take luck, which I think might be a theme, at least for me, in this episode of, by putting a lot of little things in your favor, it can generate luck in your favor. So anyways, Michael, you go first, go ahead and spiels your kind of thoughts on luck.
Michael:
And yeah, so, you know, I thought for a long time that I was a very lucky person, things kind of seemed to go well for me overall. And then I think it was my dad who first told me that luck is just preparation, meeting opportunity. And I wholeheartedly believe in that. I think that people who are lucky or who appear lucky from the outside are probably doing a lot of things that go unnoticed. And an analogy is like a duck treading water on the surface of like super calm. But underneath there is so much going on and the surface wouldn't look the way it did, if what was going on beneath the surface wasn't happening. So I do consider myself a lucky person, but I also think that I spend a ton of time, energy and effort preparing for the opportunities that I seem to encounter.
Tom:
I love the visual, the visual just got me.
Michael:
Yeah Emil, what about you?
Emil:
Michael, you're such an optimist. Every time I talk to you, I'm like, I need to be more like Michael and just be just super optimistic. I'm kind of, it depends on the day you ask me, I was chatting with somebody the other day and it feels like the moments you're unlucky things just pile on, right? You have a tenant issue or things that feel like headaches and make you feel unlucky. A lot of times in real estate investing for whatever reason it is, they pile on top of each other at the same time. And then you have these mud like months go by and you're seeing your property value go up. You haven't had any tenant issues, no big maintenance costs. And you're like, man, I'm so lucky. I'm collecting passive income, not doing anything. So for me, I'm kinda, there's times where I feel super lucky and times where I feel unlucky. So I don't know.
Tom:
I like that for you.
Emil:
Straight answer for you.
Tom:
It comes in bunches.
Michael:
Yeah. When it rains, it pours. Yeah. Who's got any more platitudes to pile on.
Emil:
We're getting real basic on this episode.
Michael:
What about you Tom? Do you consider yourself lucky?
Tom:
Yeah. I consider myself a lucky person. For sure. I think it's similar to, like you were saying, Michael it's where preparation meets opportunity. There definitely are things outside of your control where no matter what you do, like things can go up or things can go down. But as a whole, I'd say the arc tends to go towards, you know, taking care of the little things and all that stuff adds up or not taking care of the little things and all that stuff adds up and tends to bend towards whatever. I don't know how you would put it either your work ethic or just taking care of knowing where to put the work in is really important. So I, you know, yes, there is definitely some elements of chance and luck that are real, but generally speaking, I think a lot of times people create their own luck. So how I want to apply this to remote real estate investing is I've broken down categories where I think chance exists and we're going to go through all of them and talk about them. The ways that we can tip the scale in our favor and the categories I have selected. And you guys, we can add some other ones, but we're going to jump into each one is property value. So appreciation kind of like neighborhood related stuff, the tenant. So either evictions or renewing leases or the rent going up, the property condition, repairs and maintenance and acquisitions, those are going to be our four key categories. And we're just going to spend time in each category, knocking them down and onto the next one. So it makes sense, guys, let's do it. Let's do it. Alright. Property value, Emil. Why don't you lead us on this one? So let's talk about the different aspects of luck in property value.
Emil:
So for me, the big one here, the luck part of it is choosing an area that appreciates, well, I think it's probably two things choosing a market that appreciates well and choosing an area within that market that seems to be appreciating is more desirable than the other parts of town. Those I would say are probably the two luck aspects. Do you guys have anything else to add on property value?
Tom:
Yeah, I'd say there's, you know, with property value, a way to get above the fold of the luck is just looking at all those variables that go into appreciation and there are several of them. So crime population growth, different major economic centers. So I mean, my thought with property value is, you know, it's not throwing a dart at a board, there's doing your homework and looking at some of those key contributing factors to appreciation. You can get ahead of the curve with that.
Emil:
So I have some examples of good luck and bad luck I'm gonna lead with the bad luck story. So a property I bought about two years ago out in Memphis, bought it for around 63,500 has a one, a half or two star neighborhood rating on Roofstock. I ended up holding it for about two years, decent cash flowing property, but I ended up just selling it last month, took me a couple months to sell it. And I ended up selling it for basically what I paid for. So even after two years, the market's been great across the country, took me several months to sell it and it didn't appreciate at all. And we had just made some repairs to the property. So that was an instance where I probably bought, I lean too hard on cashflow, right. And bought in a one and a half star neighborhood, so lower quality neighborhood and the property, it didn't end up appreciating as much as some of the properties I have in other markets where the neighborhood is just better and the market better as well. One of the other things I probably could have accounted for is Memphis. I learned this later, Memphis has a lot of great cash flowing properties, but there's a lot of rental properties. And it's just one of those markets that you're not going to see a lot of appreciation here. So my goal wasn't when I bought this, I didn't think I'd be selling it two years down the road and my goal wasn't appreciation. But…
Michael:
Did you anticipate to see some appreciation from the property in addition to cashflow?
Emil:
I mean, I think we all do, right. I think we're all cashflow and we've talked about what do we want cashflow or appreciation? We're all cashflow investors, but you start to realize that appreciation is really an amazing cherry on top. And it allows like if you hold for a small period of time, your property appreciates, you can just steam roll that, snowball that into another property. That's maybe bringing you more cashflow. So it's, I've realized it's a little shortsighted to just think about cashflow.
Tom:
I think that's a good example. You know, in thinking about appreciation is it's in property value. It's luck if you close your eyes and just kind of throw a dart at the board, but if you're proactive in evaluating, what are the different underpinnings that make for appreciation, it becomes less of a luck thing. Right? So talk about an example where you would say you were lucky with appreciation and how maybe it wasn't so much luck looking at it in hindsight.
Michael:
So my very first property I bought in Southern California, I had no idea what I was doing. And we talked about it in a prior episode, or we talk about our first deals. And so I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew the market a little bit just anecdotally, because I had spent time there as a kid. So I thought of my first investment, I'll just buy into their California, great, whatever I bought that house. And it's since appreciated North of a hundred thousand dollars since I've owned it, which is super, super exciting. And that was dumb luck, some would say, but that was also a little bit, a little bit of preparation meeting opportunity. And in hindsight, looking at that market, it has, it would be a five star neighborhood if was on Roofstock, the schools are all 10, 10 tens. It constantly gets rated amongst some of the best schools in the state. And it's in a small HOA association. So the neighborhood around it is maintained really well because everybody is subject to the same HOA rules, looking at that whole picture. It's obvious that that house is likely to appreciate, but I didn't have the whole picture going into it because I didn't know to look and zoom out at all these things. I just thought, Oh, here's a neighborhood that I know, and here's a house that I can afford. So I think that's a kind of prime example of luck mixed with a little bit of preparation.
Tom:
I like that story in that, you know, in going through it, you were fortunate to be in that neighborhood and just to buy it, but over time it seems like that would, I think that the big arc of the story is what started as a luck thing, turned into less of a luck thing, as you have learned more about the different elements that go into appreciation like your school scores.
Michael:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know for me that I'm able to then convert that luck into now more of a science, because I understand what's going into that. As you say, what's going into the sausage making right understand at school scores play a role that neighborhood's scores play a role that physical property attributes play a role. So those all things have been a tip in my favor and this one particular example. But now that I understand that I can go take those lessons learned and make the process repeatable in any other market.
Tom:
That's great. I'm going to go ahead and flip us to the next category of tenant. And what I mean by this is vacancy is, you know, touching into evictions a little bit. And I would say that at a high level, a lucky situation with a tenant is a tenant that never moves out that always pays rent on time. That is always renewing right? Continuing the lease to keep vacancy down. And I think there is a lot of things you can do upfront to tip these scales in your favor. And I think thinking about either buying occupied or vacant, there's different things that you can do to help you out here.
Michael:
Tom, what would you say are some of those things?
Tom:
So let's talk about an occupied property first. So if I buy a property that is occupied and the next day I find out that the tenant is an eviction and wants to leave and whatnot. I know now knowing what I know there are some things I could have done to put the odds in my favor that that wouldn't be an issue. So you could say I'm on, I'm unlucky. Some of the things that I could do with a property that has occupied is no. What was the screening criteria for that tenant, with the seller? So was there a debt to income ratio? How was that tenant vetted before the seller brought them in? Did they talk to previous landlords? If I go into buying an occupied property without knowing some of this stuff? I think then yeah, this is definitely you're rolling the dice and getting lucky, but as an investor who wants to push the luck in their favor, getting to know what is that criteria of the occupied owner I think is really important.
Emil:
I have a couple of things we can add here in terms of tipping luck in your favor. So you can find a lot of us lean on property managers to handle finding tenants, dealing with tenants. So there's some property managers who put some skin in the game when it comes to tenants, they'll do things like if the tenant requires an eviction, they will handle replacing the tenant for free. So usually most property managers charge you a new lease fee like half of a first month's rent or full month's rent. And some of them will just waive that and find you a new tenant. And they won't also take their management fee from that first month to replace them. So I think one thing you can do to tip the scales in your favor is make sure your PM has some type of skin in the game when it comes to tenant quality. So that's something I've learned over time. And I like property managers who offer that another one I'll quickly mention is it kinda has to do with the tenant it's every year lease will come up for renewal. And a lot of times people will just always want to go and get the market rate. And so I talked about an example today on Twitter, and I'll just kind of read off what it was. So let's say you want to increase your rent from a thousand dollars to 1,050, and you're not willing to be flexible. And the tenant decides to leave. So let's say you have to pay $1,500 to get the place rent ready, and you lose a month of rent finding a new tenant. So $2,500 you have to make up. Now, if you're generous and assume you'll be able to get $1,100 per month from the new tenant, that's a hundred dollars more than you were bringing in before. Right? So stick with me. I'm gonna try to bring all this together. So it'll take you 25 months to make up that $2,500 difference, right? So $1,500 for making it rent ready. And the thousand dollars of one month of lost rent. So 2,500 divided by a hundred, you have 25, takes you 25 months, more than two years to make up that small increase in rent. So another thing you can do to tip things in your favor is having some type of flexibility in making sure you don't lose tenants, right? Don't just say I'm a hundred dollars under market rent. I'm going to get 50 to $100 more per month. And if they leave, they leave, it's actually theirs. When you do the math, it's better to be a little bit under marketing. Keep that tenant in for longer. At least for me.
Tom:
What I love about that example, Emil is, another element of luck is, you could say at the end of the year, you're looking at your cashflow and you're like, Oh, I was, you know, up X amount or down X amount by that exercise that you just went through in calculating out the difference of what your return would be on driving up market rent and maybe dealing with vacancy or, you know, well maybe a less market rent growth. You're being super proactive at what those end of the year cash flow is. And having that information as a tool in your arsenal when going to the table with the tenant on what the rent renewal is. So I think that's a great idea of at the end of the day, this is maximizing your cashflow. And you're doing that by being data driven and looking at the numbers on making that type of decision. So another great example,
Michael:
related to that point a meal, I think that not enough people talk to their tenants and whether that's themselves personally, or through their property manager. And so when a tenant moves out, owners are often like, Oh, bummer, the tenant moved out. Now have to go through that exercise. And Neil just mentioned of turning the unit and getting the market rent if they so desire. But there's so much that you can do proactively before that tenant moves out by asking them questions, Hey, what would you like to see done to the property? Are there things that I could do as an owner or the manager can ask on your behalf to do to the property, to incentivize them to stay? And so that's really, again, some opportunity and some preparation that are meeting. And so if someone has a tenure tenant, someone might look at them and say, Oh, they're so lucky. They haven't had a vacancy in 10 years. Well, really that owner might've been talking to that tenant the whole time.
Emil:
That's a great example. I like that a lot.
Tom:
Be the duck legs, the duck legs,
Michael:
Swim, swim stroke stroke.
Tom:
The last thing I'll say on tenant before we move on to property condition and RNM is it puts yourself in the position of a tenant. So instead of just sort of blindly looking at an address and a bed count, bath count, do the Google street view, is this property on a thoroughfare? Is it going to be a place that you would want to live? I love the golden rule of putting yourself on the other side of the tenant and saying like, Oh, is this some place I'd want to live at? And one of our new and all that good stuff. And if it checks those boxes, chances are you're going to probably going to be luckier and have tenants that stay longer and renew longer and all of that good stuff. All right. Let's jump into property conditions. So this is about RNM. How can you be lucky when it comes to repairs and maintenance and costs of turn Michael, you want to lead the way?
Michael:
Yeah, sure. So I think the biggest thing that you can do to be proactive and get lucky is just set expectations on the front end, give the tenant a very clean place to move into, keep it well maintained, keep it safe. There are more likely to feel a pride of ownership or rentership rather in a nice, clean, safe environment. And if you make it very clear that look, we are giving you this safe, clean place to live. We expect it to be safe and clean when, when it gets returned to us. And if you don't, these are the consequences. It's not threatening. It's just very level setting. This is what we expect of you. This is what you can expect of us. And again, someone who has a tenant move out and has a sparkling clean unit, someone might say, wow, you're so lucky. You're so lucky right at that happened. When in reality, no, you spent the time, energy and effort on the front end to set the expectation and make it very clear. Who's responsible for what.
Speaker 4:
Yeah. Love it. It's building trust and being the duck legs under the water.
Michael:
That's right.
Emil:
Lots of duck legs, lots of duck legs.
Tom:
Well, how about yourself? Any thoughts with regards to property condition and repairs and maintenance and turn costs and how do you tip luck scale into your favor?
Emil:
Yes. One thing it's going, gonna kind of go off what Michael mentioned, but I think when you take over a property to set a, a good example or a new precedent, right? When you take over, let's say there's a couple of things in the inspection report that you could maybe defer, just taking care of them up front, especially if they're on the inside where the tenant they're in front of the tenant's face, right? Like holes in the wall, broken things, right. Fix those things and just clean up the place, make it more of that pride of ownership. When you take over, I think that kind of helps set the precedent for your tenants to know that this is under new management, you care, and you want this place taken care of. So it kind of goes along the lines of what, what Michael mentioned.
Michael:
I just wrote down that note too, that I wanted follow up on. I'm so glad you touched on it. That it's showing, being responsive when it comes to repair requests or maintenance requests really shows that you as the owner care and thus will often incentivize the tenant to care because if you don't care as the owner, why should they care being a tenant in your property?
Emil:
Yup. Tom, anything else?
Tom:
So getting, building luck on property condition stuff, I would say quality is going to go a long way. And what I mean by that is you could, you know, there's always a decision when things come up repair versus replace with costs. There's a third element. I think of the quality of the work that is done. And it doesn't matter as much if you choose to repair or replace, if you do it with really bad quality. So when you're thinking about the vendors that you're using, making sure that they have a track record and a history and are reputable by sometimes you may pay a little bit more upfront to do work versus other options in doing the work. But if it's by a vendor that is reputable and does good work, a lot of times it's gonna end up being a lot cheaper because it's, you're not gonna need to go back, redo the type of work.
And I know for myself, I lean on third party, property management, pretty so instilling, you know, my expectations with that, with the property managers and having a relationship and being the Duck's legs under the water and saying like, okay, Laura, who's my property manager. You know, if you're in my position, this is what I'm thinking about. I'd much rather have the quality work done. I'm willing to pay a little bit extra. What are your history of work with this vendor versus that vendor? If they're bringing me multiple bids. So really making sure that if you're going to spend money, which stinks on like repairs and maintenance, but it's really important, right? Because we need to have safe habital spots getting the work done by a, that has a really good track record of doing work. So I can measure twice cut once and just get it done with,
Michael:
To piggyback on that. Tom, I also think that doing proactive steps physically to improve the property and making it more tenant proof can also tip the luck scales in our favor, such as you know, instead of cleaning the carpet or replacing the carpet, tearing it out and putting in hardwood or laminate flooring. And so that's going to reduce our costs in the long run, likely to have that stuff clean at every tenant turn, it makes the property more durable. It can often make the property more attractive. And so again, the Duck's legs being proactive on the front end, doing things that are going to increase our likelihood of success, I think is huge. When it comes to the physical property itself.
Tom:
Regular inspections. That's a good one, too.
Michael:
Absolutely.
Tom:
Sometimes stuff can fester and it just gets way worse over time. It's if you pay for it right now and deal with it, it can be significantly cheaper versus letting it fester, especially anything that has anything to do with water, water. If it's wet, you're going to pay a lot I bet.
Michael:
Did you just come up with that?
Tom:
I did. Trademark.
Michael:
That's really good.
Emil:
What do you guys think about potential? Where can you set yourself up for bad luck with property condition? One thing I wrote down, let me know if you guys agree with this is let's say you buy a property. That's not in the best part of town. And you know, you're probably not going to get the type of tenant that takes pride in ownership and where they live. I think one thing that can set you up for failure is over renovating or making it too nice. Right? Getting stainless steel appliances, granite countertops, like making it look like a five-star neighborhood property would have when it's actually an, a one and a half or two star neighborhood. What do you guys think? Do you think there's a, that sets you up for bad luck if you over renovate or make things too nice if you're maybe not in the best part of town.
Tom:
Yeah, I would say so. I would say being really cognizant of keeping it consistent with the neighborhood. I mean, there could be a situation, you know, it's not a one size fits all with everything. There could be a situation where you might be able to get a little extra boost on the rent by putting in the granite countertops in an area that's maybe a two star, but I'd say generally speaking is knowing that neighborhood and keeping it consistent, right? Cause you could be just dumping money into, you know, getting the fancy gold toilets may not be necessary. So, and this is being the duck legs, knowing the neighborhoods that you're in
Michael:
I think to echo Tom's point, chatting with property, local property management and getting an idea and understanding of what's neighborhood. By that same token though, you could be the spark that ignites the dynamite, so to speak of a neighborhood changing, it's got to start somewhere. So if you're going to be that person that over rehabs, the property that could get everyone's attention and saying, wow, look at what's going on in this neighborhood money coming in, let's start also rehabbing our properties because clearly this neighborhood is changing. So that's kind of the opposite end of the spectrum is you could be the change investor.
Emil:
That's a good point.
Tom:
I like it. Let's jump into this next aspect of luck, which is on the acquisition side. So finding deals, buying deals who wants to start us off here talking about acquisitions and getting lucky with acquisition.
Michael:
Why don't you start us off Tom?
Tom:
I like it. I had some stuff in my back pocket. So I..
Michael:
Always.
Tom:
The biggest thing about acquisitions is always having the lights on always being up to evaluate a deal and to just beat this into the ground as being the duck underwater. I know, sorry, but here's the thing though. Like the machine doesn't turn off, right? So there's always deals coming up. That's available. And the people who are lucky are the people who are constantly looking through what is available. Now I understand life gets busy and there's times where you can put in a little bit more time or you're in more of an acquisition cycle. But even if you're not an acquisition cycle, still be constantly having your finger on the pulse and having enough dry powder available where if that screaming deal does come along, good news, you're going to be lucky and then you to buy it. And the reason you gotta be lucky is because you're constantly looking at stuff. And I feel pretty adamant about that is how you get lucky with acquisitions. It's just always knowing your market, always seeing stuff coming through, being persistent.
Michael:
Yeah. To echo that. I think having your head on a swivel, even if you're not in a buying cycle, we've talked about this a lot on other episodes about kind of where we are in our own personal business, what cycle we're in. And many of us are not in a buying cycle, but absolutely keeping our eyes open our ears peeled, listening, looking for those great deals. I think in addition to knowing the market, being able to foreshadow a little bit and forecast a little bit above and beyond what you're seeing today and looking at trends and interpreting those trends to see where things are going to end up can be a huge, huge, huge advantage, and can often make people appear lucky. I bought in a neighborhood like I share with you guys numerous times in the Midwest and Northern Kentucky that has some really amazing government, local government incentives. And so I saw that and I understood the writing on the wall to mean that this area is really up and coming. And I did the homework to understand what's going on historically. And what's happening currently to then project on, where do I see this place? I'm going to go. I'm going to bet big on it. And that's seemingly proving to pay off. And so again, being the Duck's legs, you know, doing all that stuff on the front end to understand where this is going to end up.
Emil:
I like that. Other things I would add here is if you are in a buying cycle, maybe you have multiple deal finders, right? So either have a couple of agents out there. You tell your PM, you're looking for a property you're on, Roofstock sending filters, get notifications. And also, I, you mentioned keeping your eye on the market, even when you're not in a buy cycle. I think that's so important because let's say you're buying a property once a year. If you buy a property, don't keep your eye on listings. Aren't keeping a temperature read on the market. You take a year off, you come back, you may have the bias you did a year ago and the market has changed the bunch. So I think keeping your eye on the market and looking at listings, seeing how quickly things are selling, how much are they selling for? I think that that just always pays whether you're buying or not.
Michael:
One other thing to mention is we talk about, again, the opportunity for success and where preparation meets opportunity. I think the greatest deal of the century could come around, but if we're not prepared to execute on it, we're never gonna get it. We're never gonna seem lucky. And so being educated above and beyond understanding your market, I think is so, so, so hypercritical. And I know for me, if I had been educated prior to when I started investing, I would have been able to have invested sooner and hit even more home runs even more grand slams. So getting educated on how to purchase real estate, what that looks like, how to evaluate markets is so, so critical. I really can't stress that enough. And that's something I talk a lot about with people inside the Academy of, you know, the fact that you're here, getting educated is going to put you in such an advantageous position to be able to execute on things when they present themselves.
Emil:
Well said. All right. So transitioning away from real estate investing, I'm curious to hear what you guys think is the luckiest thing that's happened to you in your life. So outside of real estate investing, what do you guys think is the luckiest thing that's happened to you?
Michael:
I am going to force my wife to listen to this because meeting her is far and away, the luckiest thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life. You're welcome Claire. And thank you.
Tom:
Oh, and we cannot repeat any of these ones that we have. So Emil, I'm going to leave you with a bunch of scraps.
Emil:
Don't you, don't you say your kid!
Tom:
Was definitely going to, I mean, people talk about the lights from the sky, getting a little bit brighter when you meet your offspring, your first child and it's real, man. I'm just love struck such a crazy life experience of meeting a child that is related to you. I'd say. And thank goodness, yeah, mom as well. But Michael already took that one and my beautiful wife. Gosh, I'm trying to think of, I could go on any other stuff. I mean, just generally speaking, I think I'm pretty lucky. Gosh, luckiest thing, luckiest thing.
Michael:
I I've never heard anyone. Tom, I think say that they met their offspring, but it makes sense. Did you shake their hand?
Tom:
Yes. I shook his hand, formally. Nice to meet you, sir. Tom Schneider pleasure is mine. Pleasure is mine damn glad to meet you. So yeah, I'm going to go son, meeting son, really crazy mind blowing stuff.
Emil:
So awesome. So I get to be the direct that doesn't get to mention his wife or, or his baby daughter. I love them both. They are the luckiest things that have happened to me outside of those two. I'd probably say learning marketing. I mean, that is my profession and it's not what I started doing out of college. It was my third job out of college that I got into marketing. And to me, I see it as a skill that will always be there. I don't see robots or automation overtaking that I think they help marketers, but I don't see those types of things overtaking the marketer. And so for me to just have found something that I really enjoy doing that creates a good livelihood and that I think will be in demand. And I think it also just teaches you a lot about human psychology. You know, a lot of people look at marketing like ads and tools and all these things, but really it's learning how it's understanding people and how people work and what motivates them. So outside of my daughter and my wife, I'd say the luckiest thing that happened to me is learning about marketing and taking that on as a profession.
Michael:
Emil, did you find marketing or did marketing find marketing find you?
Emil:
Marketing found me. You know, I was, I was lost and I found my way through marketing.
Michael:
That's awesome.
Emil:
I was face down in a ditch somewhere. Yeah.
Michael:
Marketing's like, Hey, are you okay? I can help
Emil:
Marketing parted the clouds and shined its light on me.
Michael:
That is lucky.
Tom:
Alright. What else? Anything else? Alrighty then.
Alright, thanks for listening to today's episode, we hope you found it valuable. If you found this lucky duck episode to be valuable, please rate us on your podcast platform that you're using and feel free to reach out to us. You can reach out to us on Twitter or on Instagram. If there's any content you would like to hear, we would like to hear from you any questions, comment, and happy investing.
Michael:
Happy investing
Emil:
Happy investing.
