By Dannie Fountain & Caitlyn Allen
4.6
88 ratings
The podcast currently has 69 episodes available.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are wrapping up Season 4 of the Side Hustle Gal podcast.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
Recap the season.
Predictions on the future.
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Episode Transcript - Season Outtro
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. This is it. The final episode of the season. Wow. Uh, we had some, we had some incredible guests this season, and Caitlyn and I were talking before we jumped on the recording, and. It's been a good one. I think back to the interview with Amanda Gulino from A Better Monday and all of the advice that she had for us, uh, that conversation we had with Jackie at pineapple development girl is killing it.
Uh, the conversation we'd have with Carrie and with Bauma, Carrie works for core marketing group, um, uh, runs work bigger. Um, and even Rosalia is conversation on her company about consent. It's really run the gamut that season, all kinds of topics for your head and your heart, and I'm just so proud of it. I think the best part to you, we talked about this in our season intro, is that at least one of us only knew what three guests.
Four guests.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:01:26] Yep.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:01:27] And everyone else was strangers to both of us.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:01:30] Yeah. I think that was really cool because it showed a different type of, or a different side to having conversations with other business owners. I feel like a lot of podcasts, um, they bring on guests that are their friends or guests that other people have already interviewed.
So you already know kind of how the interview is going to go. But. Having conversations with new people can a be awkward. Um, and that just shows you kind of how well entrepreneurs can talk on their feet, um, and answer questions on their feet. But then. To have like real relationships with people just by being able to relate to them and how they run their business or what business life is like. I think that is something to be said for some of these interviews as well.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:02:21] Yeah. I think last season we were probably 50, 50 people we know and people we didn't know, and it was our best season to date at the time. And this season is what, like 70, 30, 80, 20, and I would say this season's even better than last season.
Um, so for the podcast hosts out here, like the lesson from this interview, people you don't know because the more. Strangers we have in our seasons, the better we feel about the seasons went. Um, so Caitlin and I were also talking to, and we want to do a little bit of crystal ball forecasting. This is totally and completely just for fun, but we're recording this episode in March. You're not going to hear it until the middle of July. And right now we're in the midst of Coronavirus. Oh
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:14] Covid19 2020. Oh my goodness.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:03:18] California is shelter in place. New York, I think is thinking about it, but they haven't done it yet. Everywhere else, gyms are closed. Fitness places are closed.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:29] Yeah. We just got the call yesterday that aho fitness. Uh, the gym that I'm, I'm the business manager for has to, had to shut down by 8:00 PM yesterday.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:03:40] Yeah. And the, I mean, that's where we're at right now. And we haven't even reached the crest of the curve that everyone keeps talking about.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:48] We haven't been testing people. So there's really, there's so many more people that are infected that we just don't know about because of the testing has been so limited.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:03:58] And I just read yesterday too, that 20 to 30 have the highest, uh, in asymptomatic infection rate. A 20 to 30-year-olds have it more than we think they do, and they're the most likely group to be asymptomatic too, which is crazy. So, Caitlyn, I want to ask you, uh, April, may, June, July, four months from now, when folks are actually listening to this, where do you think will be,
Caitlyn Allen: [00:04:24] uh, this is so scary to think about. Um. I think as I'm over here coughing, like, Oh my God, do I have the virus?
I am coughing and very sick. This is really funny. I think, uh, okay. Funny is not the right word. Just let me rephrase, not the right word there. I think in July. Um, it's going to get worse before it gets better, in my opinion. Um, I think there are still a lot of people, especially where I live, who I'm, Hmm. Don't think that this is a big deal. Um, they don't comprehend, uh, I don't think they want to comprehend. Um, the. The effect that this is going to have on everything from getting groceries, um, to our economy too. Work. How different the workplace is going to be moving forward from this childcare. Um, I think that this virus is going to change a lot of.
Things that we probably wouldn't even think about. Um, moving forward. So in July, I feel like Mmm. Like I said, it's going to get worse before it gets better. I think it's gonna probably peak in the end of April, beginning of May. Um, but I think July is when we're gonna really start to see a lot of changes.
I think there's going to be a lot of, a lot more work from home jobs. Um, I think employers are going to switch a lot of employees to the more we more remote work, you're going to see a lot of policies enacted for what worked from home actually looks like for employers. Um, because like Dannie said yesterday on her Instagram stories, people don't know how to show up for work when they're working from home.
And I think a lot of policies are going to be enacted around that. I think, uh. A lot of businesses are going to shift their focus from brick and mortar to more online businesses, online business, so that if anything like this ever happens again, they have a that second source of income. Um, Oh, what else do I think?
I think that it's just going to be a big shift in our culture and I think. Uh, millennials in particular, and I don't even think they're millennials anymore. Do any, what are the kids that are like a little bit younger than us right now, but not millennials?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:02] Gen Z.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:07:03] I think everybody's blaming the millennials right now. Look here. We're not the ones on spring break in Florida right now. Okay. It's not the millennials. We are out of college. That is gen Z get it right. Those kids, um, I think they're going to see a change in what school looks like and what college looks like. And, um, I think there's going to be a lot more protocol and a push for the CDC to have the pandemic office.
Again, I think that, um, uh, we're going to see a shift in policy around. What going to the hospital potentially looks like, or, um, and political, unrest. I think we're going to see that. So I'm excited to see kind of what happens from this virus right now. It's a little bit scary. Um. As somebody who lives down by the border, it's going to be super interesting to see kind of what happens over the next few weeks as we continue to shut down borders.
Um, change what flying looks like, and, um, what protocols are federal entities around here put into place because there's really nothing right now. Dannie, I feel like I've been talking forever and I've just been, um, what are you, what are you thinking?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:08:29] I agree with a lot of what you said. I think I would add three things.
Um, so to the flying piece, I think back to post 911 flying and how we went from kind of secure to like, everybody has to be screened. Um, I, I think that's might actually be like. Wellness screening now as a part of boarding planes, just because people will be afraid that another silent virus could escape from its originating site.
Um, so I wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years we see that enacted,
Caitlyn Allen: [00:09:03] no flying if you have a temperature.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:09:07] Um, another thing that I see impacting is, Mmm. Just this. Like more empathy. Um, so I've been following the immunocompromised friends of mine for years on Instagram, but just watching the conversations around.
like everyone's panicking. But immunocompromised people have been begging for the ability to self-quarantine for years. Uh, the ability to work from home for years, the ability to get some of these accommodations that we're now giving all knowledge workers for a year. And also I've been following my friends who work at places like Costco. And for lack of a better word, um, like my friend Nikki who works at Costco is now a like, vital service provider, right? Because like, groceries are flying off the shelves faster than they can get them restocked. She's mitigating fights. She's like checking out double the amount of people at an hour that she used to.
And I think that grocery workers, postal workers, um. Like internet and telephone infrastructure workers are finally going to get a little bit more recognition because they're the people that can't self quarantine right now. Um, and finally, like to your point on work from home, I've been watching as people who I have worked from home on the occasional Friday.
Struggle with this permanent work from home, and I think that freelancers, remote workers, et cetera, have an incredible opportunity to like be thought leaders here. Kind of like I was talking about an Instagram last night. I didn't realize how much of a divide there was between me and my coworkers because I've been managing and working with teams remotely for 12 years and. Nothing has changed in my personal life, except for I don't have to commute over the past couple of weeks. Um, and it's completely turned. My coworkers lives upside down.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:11:16] Well. And to that point, I think that there's going to be more empathy for the people who run businesses from home. Like before, all of my friends are like, Oh, it must be so nice to be able to work from home and do whatever you want, and now they're really getting to see, wow, work from home is not as easy as we thought.
And I think that's going to give an empathy piece too. Small business owners or I don't even know, online business or business. It's necessary businesses, um, that hasn't been there before.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:11:53] Yeah, I completely agree. I think this has been a fun little time capsule. I'll be curious to see when this episode goes live in four months, what the world looks like.
How many of our little predictions were accurate and we'll just have to see what happens.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:12:14] Yes. And to all my other immunocompromised folks out there, stay safe. I hope you guys stay safe through this whole thing and um, we will see you guys in July.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:12:26] Alright, bye. And we'll see you sometime soon. For sure.
Whatever season the next season number is.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Rianna Hill of Pancake Digital Solutions..
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
The start of the side hustle to the development of a digital marketing agency.
Trusting yourself and the experience you have.
The importance of schedules as well as you’re alone time.
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Episode Transcript
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:00:26] Oh, I'm supposed to go. Oh my goodness. Hi guys. Welcome. I am so excited to be introducing who is joining us today. Rianna of pancake. Digital solutions. Why did I just blank on what your business name is? I'm so excited. Rianna is. Awesome. Like, I just don't even know how to explain her. Um, I met Rianna with, uh, one of my clients, Joey. Um, she worked with us, uh, with a trademark, and then she actually coached me how to work on Facebook ads, um, through indie law. So that was a lot of fun. Mmm. And with that, I created a great relationship with her and she is just the best person to talk to about a lot of digital marketing. Um, I feel like her and Dannie could be like besties because they do a lot of similar things. Um, so yeah, I'm super excited to introduce Rianna Rianna. Can you tell us a little bit about you and about why you identify with being a side hustler?
Rianna Hill: [00:01:39] Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Caitlyn. That's a very sweet intro. I'm definitely enjoyed being working with you off and on over the past few years. That's been been wonderful. Um, so yeah, my name is Rianna . Um, yes, like the singer, but without the H, uh, having her coming around was kind of the best thing ever because now everyone can say my name, so that's pretty cool. And I'm currently living on the Washington state peninsula, which is kind of that broken off piece in the top left corner.
Um, lived in seven different States as I am currently a Navy wife and expectant mother to be. So that's kind of the exciting things about me. And why do identify as a side hustler? I mean, honestly, that could really be my whole life is being a side hustler. I remember some of my earliest memories are like walking around and picking up change and finding stuff in the.
A couch cushion seats too, as like my first job. So my parents started giving me various jobs and once I learned like, Oh, I could mow my own lawn, then all of a sudden it was like, Oh, let me mow the neighbor's lawn. Oh, let me pull their weeds and you know, have little invoices and spreadsheets. Um. So when I started my career in 2009 and I was trying to apply to different restaurants, you know, no one's going to hire a teenager with no experience in 2009 it's just not happening.
So, um, I started doing that freelancer stuff online, you know, making logos, learning how to make websites. And now that I'm a Navy wife and we move all the time, it's really become my reality. So that's a. That's definitely my identity in a nutshell.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:24] So you currently run, um, uh, digital marketing agency, right? So how did you, do you currently identify as a side hustler or have you taken that kind of full time.
Rianna Hill: [00:03:41] Yeah. You know, that's a great question. So a lot of the work that I started doing originally, um, was very much kind of side hustle work while I was still in school and I did get out and get a a few part time jobs. Um. For my first couple of years out of my undergraduate school. Uh, but even then, even after I went full time, I still kept doing that freelancing stuff on the side, very much a side gig thing. Um. I also bought my first house when I was 19, and I manage that on the side. So that's kind of, I've always got a little projects like that going on.
And so, uh, when we started moving around and I wasn't able to, we weren't living in one place long enough to have kind of that full time job. That's when I turned my agent, like my freelancing into an agency. But I also work for another company that I've been working for, uh, for, gosh, almost. Almost three years now, uh, with a little bit of a break last summer. and so I do have my agency full time, but I still have side hustles as well. Now I write for a couple online magazines and, um, Oh, manage, still manage our properties, pick up random jobs here and there. I did a seasonal job at a liquor store here for fun. Um. You know, to get out and meet people in a new place.
So it's just, it's kind of, it's kind of a lifestyle, really. The whole like, and thought of having just one full time job seems so well, what do I do with the rest of my time? So that's definitely a big part of what I still do. Okay.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:05:20] Oh my gosh. I feel like Dannie can relate 50 million different levels. Like if she doesn't have 20 projects going on, I'm like Dannie, who are, you no, I am super curious though, because when I hear that, my first, my like initial gut reaction is, Oh, um, G how do you plan your day? Or like, how do you plan for. All of the things. So can you run us through what kind of your goal setting or planning looks like? Um, especially as you transition into different seasons. If you decide to take on some seasonal work or you know, you're launching something in your business, but you also have a big project with the side hustle that you're working on. Um, what does kind of your, so goal setting, and then what does your week look like?
Rianna Hill: [00:06:14] Sure. So that's definitely something that has changed a lot. Um, a lot of, especially once I left the office space and didn't have, you know, set hours within an office. It was a lot more difficult to set my own schedule because all of a sudden you have all this time freedom, which is amazing, and you think, Oh, now I'm going to be able to do all these things that I needed to.
Yet setting that schedule is so difficult. Um, even as we crave it as creatures of habit. , especially when you're not experienced, you'll be going through and looking at, Oh, you know, I'm going to spend a couple of hours on this project. It's a couple of hours on this project. But then one of those projects all of a sudden takes twice as long as you thought it would, and then all of a sudden you get this new project that comes through and it's the end of the day and you haven't even started on the to do list that you started for yourself.
So that was a huge learning curve for me. Um. When, especially when I was living in New York after having moved to South Carolina, not knowing where we were moving. Then we moved to Hawaii, but anyway, and it just was like, how do I plan my day? I don't even know how long I'm going to be here. There's all these uncertainties, which. Honestly, it was a huge benefit, uh, because I had to work through that and figure out, you know, Oh, I can't just take a lunch break and then sit and watch Netflix for three hours, and then my whole afternoon is gone. So as much as I tried to push myself into the schedule, what I realized with this, having all these projects and these different seasons and things changing, I mean, we'll live some more for three months and you know, then have to move again. And so that can really change. Constant, that constant change. I mean, you can't really have that structured rigid. set schedule. So what I've done is been able to switch on being very goal focused and say, okay, you know. This, this client project is needs to be done at this time. I can focus on doing that project at once.
So every morning I set three specific goals and work on those as three specific tasks as opposed to trying to time block. And that has tremendously increased my productivity as well as that feeling at the end of the day. Like, Oh yeah, I did these three tasks, even if I wasn't able to get to anything else.
You feel accomplished, which is really the battle of self-employment. Now, I'm also currently, I'm about to finish up my doctorate. I'm one class away from doing my dissertation, so that has been another interesting a Into my weekly schedule to shift to that next question. And what I have found is I can lump these things together.
So my doctorate is in business administration, and so some of that, like last fall, my class was process. And so while I'm learning about all these process, I'm also writing processes for my business. And so being able to kind of. Yes, it's multiple different projects, but I'm all learning the same thing.
Keeps it from, it's not really multitasking. It keeps it a lot more focused and in line with my overall career goals, um, and allows you to kind of lump those things together. So I read about these processes for homework, do it for my business, and then I'm able to complete my homework, talking about what I just did for my business.
So that's kinda how my week looks. I try to honor weekends, but with homework, that's not always easy. Um, I do have the benefit of being married to somebody who has a very rigid structured, he has to be at work at a specific time and his home, you know, at varying times it has specific calls and meetings. So I've mirrored a lot of my schedule off of his to kind of emulate that structure for myself at home.
Okay. So gotta ask. Cause I'mDannie Lynn Fountain: [00:10:08] also getting a doctorate in business administration. Um, where are you going? What's your specialty?
Rianna Hill: [00:10:18] Very cool. Um, that's awesome. That parallel there. So the school is called Tri-Net university international.
Um, I started there about two years ago and not living in Hawaii. They recently just got purchased by American Intercontinental university, both online schools out of California, and actually, I think Americans out of Arizona. so it's kind of an online school that's very military friendly, which with the DBA can be hard to find first of all, online.
Um, and second of all, something that's not outrageously expensive. So this fit the schedule really, really well, and the accreditation has bumped up by being bought by this new university. So that's really cool. Um, to kind of have that added bonus. But it is, it's general, so there's not a specific concentration. Um, it's just kind of general business administration. Although I could say it's probably fair to say, especially with my thesis research, it's a lot more marketing focused.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:11:22] Love it. I'm getting mine through Capella. And, um, my specialty is in HR. And so my thesis is going to, my hypothesis for my thesis is that, um, professional side hustlers make better corporate employees. So
love that. That's awesome.
Love the parallel. Um, so back to broader productivity. You talked about mirroring your schedule off of your partners, and I think that, um, there's a lot of natural. a ability to do that. So like I think about my partner who works a second shift schedule, which means that when I'm done with work at five, until he gets home at 10 during non Corona times, um, I really have from like five to 10:00 PM to do whatever I want, which is usually like business, school work, et cetera. What tips and advice would you give for someone who. Basically has the same schedule as their partner. So your free times are at the same time, but you still need that alone time. It's like what happens on your schedule's mirror too well?
Rianna Hill: [00:12:37] Sure. Okay. That's a great question. Um, so when we first started living together in South Carolina, that was very true. Um, I still had a, I had a full time job. Um, and he was working, he was doing a training that was a little more than full time, um, day to day. and then of course, weekends off and evenings off. And so very, very similar. We, the one difference was, is he would usually get up early and go in early and I would stay up late to do my work late.
And so, and, uh, we were, we had bought our house out there and rented out the other rooms. So we basically just had like a one our one bedroom that had our desks and had everything there. And then everything else was shared space. So, you know, he would get up at like four o'clock in the morning and get dressed and, you know, be fumbling around and kind of wake me up and I'd be all irritated.
And then at night he'd go to bed earlier and I would be up a little bit later. I'm trying to be really quiet and not bother him while I was getting my master's degree. And then in the interim periods, like around dinner time and whatnot. Yeah, we both had this free time, but we both had these other things we needed to be working on.
And so it was very paralleled and yet a little bit of a struggle. So what I started doing is getting up at the same time he did at 4:00 AM, which we still usually do. Um. It's, it's good. Uh, it's like crying on the inside, but it is good. Um, and then when he goes to work that early, I have that free time in the morning, you know, two, three hours or so where I can work on homework or just have that alone time that I need.
Especially being an only child. I'm used to my alone time with two working parents. I definitely need that alone time. Uh. And so it gave me that morning to myself to be able to have sort of that freedom and whatnot. And then in the afternoons we would come home or evenings, I guess, you know, and have dinner together and that's your free time and you turn your phones off and you have those conversations.
How was your day? You have that hour to where you can really just focus on each other. And then the rest of the time you don't have to feel guilty about working. So we would both then study or work on our other projects after dinner, um, at the same time, you know, with our desks together. And it just made such a huge difference.
And so we've emulated that from place to place. Now. In fact, our living room here is, uh, desks instead of the TV. So, um. Just finding kind of those compromises in those balances is probably the tip that I would find a would recommend, as well as having those specific times where it's just the two of you so that when you're working, you don't feel guilty about not spending time with them and you're spending time with them. You don't feel guilty about not doing work because you know, we have this set time together and I have this set time for work and so it, it helps a lot.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:15:49] I can definitely relate to that type of structure because I actually get up at 4:00 AM every morning currently. Um, uh, the person that I live with, he, um, gets up at 4:00 AM and goes to work at 6:00 AM, and it's just easiest to wake up that early work and have like that quiet time. Plus, even when I was living in the city that. Like that 4:00 to 6:00 AM Mark is so nice because it's so quiet out like nobody else is out and about. So, um, Oh, that's such a good recommendation. I mean, I think it's a good recommendation to try to work in the morning if you can, or at least take that, that personal time there. Um. What would you say has been one of your biggest business challenges or challenges as a, somebody running a business and also side hustling on the, on the side.
Rianna Hill: [00:16:47] Okay. Yeah, absolutely. That's a fantastic question. Um. And as somebody who started doing these kinds of things that, you know, 14, 15,16 years old and going to these chamber of commerce meetings and meeting these big business owners as a teenager, I think a huge issue has been not trusting myself because a lot of the, a lot of the stuff I learned.
Just asking people questions and listening and getting this advice and learning as much as possible and saying, you know, I don't know these things. Tell me how to do this. Um, but at this stage, I do know how to do these things. Yet I'm still, you know, in my twenties I'm getting approaching late twenties.
So it's a little bit more, a little bit more defined now, but still, just knowing like, Hey, yeah, I'm only. When I started the officially started the business like I was only 23 years old. Uh, when I incorporated it and going and saying, yeah, I'm 23 year old business owner and have these team members that helped me with this work and yeah, I do know my stuff.
It's really hard to, as much as you're like, yeah, I know my stuff is really hard to sit there and look at that and say, well, yeah, actually I'm a trustworthy person. This is a trustworthy business. This is a real thing. And a lot of the mistakes I've made is because I didn't trust myself. And what I've learned from doing this over the last several years, decades almost, um, Yeah. You know, this might not be the normal thing that people advise. I might not be charging the correct prices or doing the right servicing, or someone might see this, but you know, there's all this contradictory advice and the most important thing is doing what works for your business. And you know, I almost went bankrupt last year because I kept trying to do.
The structure that I thought I was supposed to do. I kept trying to do the things that everyone was telling you to do, including quitting that, that part time job that I have with the other agency because I thought, you know everyone at focus on the one thing only do your one thing. But that's, that's just not me. That's not how I function and it didn't work. And. It showed, you know, I burnt out, I was done. I was toasted and hated what I was doing. And so circling back to, you know, why did I start all this stuff in the first place? And trusting myself and going with my gut, and now my last four months have been profitable. My most profitable in three years. And more than that actually. And so that's. That's so important as any entrepreneur. Mmm. Especially as as a young entrepreneur to trust yourself and know what you're doing with also still having humility that you have a lot of things to learn. And also as an older entrepreneur, maybe you know a lot of things, but there's also still a lot you can learn kind of where ever you are in that boat. Always more to learn. There's always something to be humble about, but at the end of the day, trust yourself.
I fricking love this.Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:19:50] Gosh, this has been such a good conversation. Um, to the point of learning. I would love to know where people could come hang out with you online and learn from your experience. You have a ton to offer from managing that ever. Moving life, balancing education, all of those things. So where can we hang out with you.
Rianna Hill: [00:20:11] Awesome. Yeah. The best place for me specifically would be the Facebook page, pancake digital solutions, just facebook.com/pancake digital solutions. I go live there quite a bit, share a lot of content, post my blogs there. Uh, that's, that's kinda the fun place to hang out with me online.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:20:32] Amazing. This has been so great. Thank you for spending time with us today.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:20:37] Yes. Thank you.
Rianna Hill: [00:20:38] Thank you so much. I love this.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are having a Jam Session on Mid-Year Goal Setting / Check-ins.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
Knowing when its time to cut loose a goal.
The importance of pivoting.
How to measure your goals.
FOLLOW YOUR HOSTS: D Website | D Instagram // C Website | C Instagram
Episode Transcript - Goal setting Jam Session
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. You've got just me and Caitlyn today for our last jam session of the season. Holy shit.
Uh, so today we are going to be talking to you about maybe your goal checking and setting new goals at the midyear if you need to plus maybe telling you something about the goals that we set this year.
Yeah. Uh, so let's dig right in. First thing that we want to talk about is how to check in on your goals. And we should probably preface this by saying that there are literally dozens of different ways to set goals. A couple of years ago, right in a Pomeroy, and I wrote a book interviewing a bunch of different goal-setting experts, and there were so many different things that we discovered. Um, so first there's no right way to goal set. Um, but checking in on your goals is interesting, right? Cause I feel like we set goals and then I used to be the person that would like set goals in my power sheets and then never use the tending list throughout the year. um, so checking in on your goals is really about A, is this thing still important to me? B, have I achieved it? C. If I haven't achieved it, is it because of A or because of needing to put processes in place to get shit done? What do you think, caitlyn?
Caitlyn Allen: [00:01:50] Yeah. Um, I think this is a very interesting thing because with my clients, I actually do quarterly goal setting. Um, so mid year is usually not really.
Okay. Kind of review outside of financial goals. Um, but I do know that if you set big goals for the year, you should be, in my opinion, checking in on them at least quarterly to make sure that they're staying up to date. Um, and I know this podcast episode is going live in July, I think. So it's perfect time to be talking about that midyear check-in and yeah, I think that it's.
the check-in is more about is this working or am I just not working on this thing? Is it. Providing what I'm expecting it to provide, or did I write this down because everybody else was doing it? So taking a look at what your goals were and what Headspace you were in when you wrote them, and then really reevaluating the year.
I think especially true with this year, the Coronavirus has thrown a damper on a lot of different things, or. Um, is making a lot of us pivot our businesses. And so this is kind of the perfect time to think about, okay, what were my goals then? What are my goals now? And how do I get there for the next six months or next three months?
And I think that kind of brings us into how to pivot and create new goals unless, Dan, do you have anything else to say about checking in.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:03:31] No, I think it had a pivot. Basically, this year is more important than ever. Right? Like you and I were talking before we started recording this episode. What if like what if they just don't matter anymore?
Oh, and I think with Corona, that can be especially true. I think about those folks who had in-person events planned for Q2. That I ended up getting canceled or in person events for Q3 that have had rough ticket sales because no one wants to commit to an in person event right now. Um, so how do you pivot?
How do you adjust? I'm a good example of, this is even my own in person event. I have an in person event in September of this year, and I literally launched ticket sales the first week of March, and at the end of that week, it was declared a pandemic. And so we, we immediately stopped promoting ticket sales.
Early bird was supposed to end March 31st but like we extended it through the end of may that, um, because you have to, you have to shift and adapt. A lot of event planners have put into place ways to still hold their event digitally. Ah, like if coronavirus is still a thing in September, we're just gonna mail everyone swag and snacks and hold it virtually.
Mmm. So while the event industry is a more concrete example, there's other ways that this can be impacted because businesses are putting. Not essential projects on hold to focus on shifting. I'm even seeing that at work at Google, like all of the non-essential tests and planning that we have for Q2 gone out the window.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:05:16] Um, a lot of our sales goals have had to shift as well for a lot of business owners I work for.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:05:22] Yeah, exactly. Um, so it's, it's an interesting, right? It's a, a reminder of those dream to do list. That we have and that we've never gotten done. We've seen a lot of personal ability to do that. I mean, my Instagram has been flooded with people organizing their homes and doing all those projects that we'd ever got to.
A friend of mine is live documenting her home renovation that they just decided to do since her and her husband are both at home right now. Um. So there is a lot of that going on and it makes you think about, you know, what's important because a lot of times we just carry things over on our to do, to do list from one day to the next to the next to the next. And next thing you know, for six months you've been carrying this item over. Maybe it's time to scratch it off and let it go.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:06:15] Or really do the damn thing now because we have time. So like for me, I was super excited. I bought a course at the beginning or the end of last year, and I was like, hell yeah, this is the time I'm going to do this thing.
And then. As you guys know, or as Dannie knows, my mom got really sick and I had to go back to Michigan and just a lot of things kept getting in the way and it kept getting pushed on the back burner. But now we have time, like take some time to finish those courses. Take that time to read that workbook that you purchased. Take this time to really focus on your business too, and come back stronger than ever because. this isn't going to last forever. It's just a season, just like anything else. Um, and it's the perfect time to make those pivots, if that's what you want to do.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:08] yeah, that's spot on. So if you're going to pivot and if you're going to set new goals, let's talk about measuring those goals, right?
Um, so you've all heard of smart goals, right? Simple, measurable, actionable. Repeatable, right? Something like that. Anyway, look into smart goals. It's a good way to measure it. And before we started recording, Caitlyn and I were talking about the difference between measuring quantitative goals and qualitative goals, right?
Quantitative goals, easy to measure. Did you hit your numbers? Did you produce the X number of things that you plan to produce? So for us, did we complete all 20 episodes of season four. Like, that's really easy. You either publish 20 episodes or you didn't.
Um, but those qualitative goals, write those in a little bit harder to measuring, to understand and to think about.
So when you're setting, qualitative goals, think about breaking the master qualitative goal into quantitative chunks. So if you're writing a book. Maybe set a goal of recording writing 2000 words a week, or if you want to build a coaching program, set a goal of developing one chunk of it a week for the next seven weeks and really break it down so that way you have ways to check the box in in an actually measurable way, and you don't find yourself at the day of the deadline with. No book written or no program developed
Caitlyn Allen: [00:08:45] and schedule time on your calendar to do the damn thing. Like that's what I see missing all of the time is, Oh yeah, I'm going to do, I'm going to write a chapter of my book this week because that's my goal is to write a chapter a week for the next three months.
It's not on their calendar, like they're not actually doing the thing. So when you're writing and you're making these smart goals or these quantitative goals, um, I always recommend having a chunk of time in your week and always putting it at the beginning of the week cause we know that we're going to switch it.
Let's be honest, we all do it. We all push it to the end of the week, but that you do it. And. Find an accountability buddy for it. We all, all of us out there, especially in the creative industry, have goals and things that we want to achieve. Talk to your friends, see if they can hold you accountable, and maybe they have something that they want be held accountable for too.
I think that is my number one recommendation is just having somebody to check in with, Hey, have you done this thing this week? I haven't. I have,
um. Or I'm working on it tomorrow instead of today, like I planned, whatever. Um, but 100% what Dannie said, I always, always, always recommend quantitative goals or the over qualitative goals because qualitative can be emotionally charged and you can never actually get the thing done because there's no measurement to it.
So always set a quantitative goal or. Mmm. Make sure that there is quantitative pieces to that goal at the end of the day. Um,
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:10:35] let's talk about our goals.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:10:37] Yeah, that's what I was just about to say.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:10:41] Um, so if you want to see my 2020 goals, you can head to danniefountaint.com/blog/goals/update and you can see the recap of what I did in 2019 and what I'm doing this year. And I have, looking at this list, I have seven goals. Uh, two of them.
Are quantitative numbers based and the rest are qualitative. So of those quantitative goals, right. I have finished paying off my debt, which as of January 1st I had $48,000 as of recording this episode at the end of March, I have 18,000 left. It's like we're chugging along.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:11:23] wait a second. Like, let's celebrate that, right quick? Hell yeah. That's amazing. Dannie.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:11:31] And then my other quantitative goal is to read books following the read harder challenge. Um, and it's the end of march. I've read 31 books so far this year. Uh, coronavirus definitely helped with that one.
Hey, maybe you're hurting some people's goals, but it's definitely helping my reading goal. So especially with all of these companies like, um, Apple books and scribed, giving free access to libraries of books certainly helps. Um, and then qualitatively, I have be more minimalist, get healthy, be a better caretaker, uh, transition my business.
Um, so the transition of business one is done. Like I rebranded that launched sometime in January. Life is good. Uh, and the others I'm just working on, right? Like,
Caitlyn Allen: [00:12:25] can we talk about how you, how do you check that off of your to do list? How do you know when it's completed? Do you have, like after you've written that qualitative goal, how do you know when it's done.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:12:37] It's a good question, right? Um, you kind of have to write down the measurement. So going back to when we were talking about measuring, when you write, when you read a quantitative goal, it's easy. There is $48,000 of debt when that number is zero, that goal is complete. Cross it off. Okay. When you sat that qualitative goal, transition my business fully from its current iteration to its future state, that's vague as fuck.
But, uh, I had already committed to a rebrand when I wrote that goal. And so the, the way that I decided to measure it is. Launch the rebrand and book one new client under the rebranded like entity. Right. Um, so check, check. And for me, that's complete. So when you're setting those qualitative goals, define how you'll measure it, and if you publish your goals publicly, like I do, you don't need to publish the measurement metric, but have it written down somewhere.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:40] Yeah, that's what I wanted to get at, was making sure that you're writing down kind of what it means to finish it, because I've worked on lots of teams where we've set goals, and then at the end we're like, okay. So I think I hit this goal, but like we never really figured out what it meant to finish it.
Um, so I think that's something that, uh, is definitely something that's lacking in goal setting that a lot of people don't talk about. Um, for me this year I didn't really set many goals. Uh, to be honest, I think this year my. A mindset walking into 2020 was, I want this to be a year of, um, just like openness for me. So allowing myself to breathe and allowing myself to have kind of. A vagueness to it. Um, but one thing that I did say I wanted to do was to be more consistent on social media. And, um, I'm definitely doing that. You'll see, uh, Instagram stories for me, Instagram feed posts from me, something that was very much lacking before and more talking about business oriented things and not just personal.
Um. Uh, another thing that I. I told myself I wanted to do at the beginning of the year was to work on my health and wellness. So I've really been focused on like meditating at nighttime. Um, and. Going to the gym. though` the Coronavirus thing is definitely impacted that. Right. So, um, but figuring out how to transition it to your home, like that's, it's just something that makes, makes me feel better.
Um, so I do it, and I think the last thing that I really wanted to do in my business was pivot. And so I'm working on finishing that pivot and I hope to have it done by the end of this. Uh. Second quarter, uh, I've really pivoting into the integrator, the COO role. Um, I have been taking a course by Kristin Kaplan.
Um, that has been awesome and amazing and super helpful in making that transition. And I'm just. Super excited to continue working towards that. But yeah, I think for me, I have a hard time. I have an easy time helping other people goal set a boat when it comes to me, I'm just kind of like, yeah, I'll get there when I get there.
So, uh, for me it's been really good to have that accountability partner or that accountability buddy that's like, Hey, yo, checking in. How you doing? Um, that's super helpful.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:16:35] Love, it, so I wanna know. Let us know as we wrap up this episode, come find us on Instagram and let us know what your goals are. Are you pivoting at this half year Mark?
Are you re-evaluating the way that you are measuring success? come strike up conversation. We'll have some resources in the show notes for you to make this a little bit easier. And in the meantime, we'll see you next week.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:17:01] See you later.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Rosalia Rivera of About Consent Podcast.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
Knowing when it is time to turn away from something because the passion is gone.
The impact that the cultural landscape can have on your side hustle.
being able to take a step back and separate family life from your side hustle.
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Episode Transcript
Caitlyn Allen: [00:00:21] Hey guys, welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. I am so excited today because we have Carey of cor marketing. Um, Carey and I met a couple of years ago, um, when Rosemary Watson, um, connected us. We went to a like retreat together type thing. Um, and it was just, it was so much fun to connect with entrepreneurs and that's something that a lot of us probably don't do, especially for side hustling. There is a lot of work that's going into it. So I'm taking the time to go out and meet people, uh, can bring you business because now Carey and I work together. So Carey, tell us a little bit about, you.
Carey Osenbau: [00:01:06] Um, my name is Carey Osenbau I have kind of been in this, um, what you would call like web and marketing space, probably almost 15 years now.
I started back in early two thousands before this whole. Online VA space really was a big thing. It was just starting to pick up steam. I worked in the legal field and realized very quickly with two small children that that wasn't going to be an option for me anymore unless I wanted to pay massive amounts of money to.
For daycare costs and what's the point of working at that point? So, um, I quickly, I had to find another solution and I stumbled upon this world of, um, designing websites, designing e-commerce. So I quickly dove in, made some connections, and. Started, um, providing those services, um, learning all that I could about design and development.
I'm pretty much self, self taught myself from the very beginning. Um, since then I worked for multiple companies, um, worked for startups, Mmm. Wellness practitioners. And so learning the ins and outs of all their different types of businesses, but all while still continuing to provide, Mmm. You know, services to other clients on the side.
So I was still, while I had like full time jobs throughout my, um, for the last 15 years, I always continue to work on the side building websites, um, making connections, um, and essentially continuing to run that type of business. Ref mainly off of just referrals. So, you know, I would do something for somebody and then they're like, Hey, you know, Carrie's really good at what she does.
If you need a website, go give her a call. So. For the longest time, I've essentially grown my side business based purely off of referrals. Um, I did go back to school and get my biz finished up, my business degree. So I was able to kind of connect all the pieces as far as being able to help small businesses and medium sized businesses, tie everything together through marketing, through business structure, and then also design and development and marketing their businesses online.
Mmm. So I think seven years ago, after working full time for a wellness practitioner, I, um, was pregnant with my now seven year old and I decided to jump back into taking my side hustle full time. And so, um, continued to grow. Over the last two years, I've gotten so busy that I decided, um, that it was time to build a team.
And so, I mean, last year we did our first, um, six figure year, and it's been a, an amazing kind of journey and all the, uh, the Austin businesses that we get to work with.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:04:08] So it really sounds like a lot of connections have brought you the business that you've had. How do you. Like, how do you build those connections, um, outside of like, of course somebody is a, a client and then they're referring, but how have you really built those connections? And then the followup question to that is, are the. Times that you connect with people who are referrals. Is that ever awkward? Um like, Oh, well this person knew you, so you must be good type of thing, versus they're finding you organically and they think that you're good, if that makes sense?
Carey Osenbau: [00:04:49] Okay. Um, so as far as being able to connect with people, that's always been a big struggle for me.
Um. I don't know. I don't consider myself an introvert. Once I get to know somebody, I kind of like open up and like blossom. And then, you know, I'm a chatterbox, but it's, I've always been kind of shy in nature. So that's always been one area that I've struggled in. So I've been, I kind of look for opportunities and honestly, um, with the online Instagram community has really, um, made it easier to connect with people.
That are doing the same types of work that you're doing and being a, you know, a work from home entrepreneur, it's really hard to get out unless there's somebody that's put something together. I'm some kind of community to where that you can get out and meet other type of like minded business owners.
So having the Instagram community has been amazing. Um, and the opportunities that have actually come from that. And being able to promote other people because you're meeting all different types of people that do different things. So if you're niched and specialized in one specific thing, you may have, um.
Somebody that you've connected with that maybe does similar type of work, but if they say, specialize in Squarespace and they come across a client that needs Shopify help, then they're, because you've made that connection and you've built that trust factor with them, they're more willing to give you that referral because you have built that.
Um. That relationship with them. Um, and then one thing that has really helped too with the referral base business is is essentially how you treat your customers. And, you know, I tried to always provide the best experience, um, go above and beyond. Um. What my offering is, and really tried to educate and, and give the best product that I can.
And that has really helped too. Um, it's, the service that you provide is also self-promotion because if, if your client has a great experience, obviously they're going to refer you to other people because once you build that trust with a client, there. More willing to give you, like they're trusted people that they have relationships with. So, um, and then the second part of your question was, can you, um,
Caitlyn Allen: [00:07:21] yeah. So do you ever find it awkward when you have a. Referral come through, um, where they just, instead of knowing your work and knowing what you offer, they just kind of come in and are like, well, you've worked with this person, so I'm sure that you can do this. Like, is it ever awkward trying to explain your products to somebody who already thinks that you can give them what they need?
Carey Osenbau: [00:07:48] Um, I think I've been in this business so long that maybe in the beginning it was, I mean, I've had some, um. Maybe drawbacks to that. But as I've continued to grow and I'm actually like one of the things that has helped with that as, as far as like niching, but I do understand what you're saying.
Cause sometimes if you niche so far down, people are like, well, do you do this? And being like. With my company, we are kind of like a one stop shop. We do a lot of different things. So, um, it is surprising to clients sometimes all of the different types of services that we offer because we don't always communicate that in our marketing and advertising.
Um, and then also, um, as far as people that maybe just organically have found me, um, it's usually based. Same. It's based on what we have advertised our services to be, but then once you get to know the the customer, then it's easier to kind of just tell them like all the additional stuff
Caitlyn Allen: [00:08:50] So some things that he liked to go above and beyond for a client. But let's talk about going above and beyond for a client because there can be going above and beyond and shooting yourself in the foot. So how have you dealt with that? Um, are you dealing with that? Has that been a struggle?
Carey Osenbau: [00:09:08] Well over, probably I say the last, um, this last phase of my business going, working for myself full time.
I have dealt with lots of issues as far as, you know, undercharging, undervaluing my work. Um. And, and as a freelancer in the beginning, trying to do and serve and do more, like going above and beyond essentially is led myself to burn out multiple times and having, you know, adrenal fatigue and then finding out I have thyroid issues.
So through that whole process, I've had a lot of growth as far as, and I've worked with some like one-on-one coaches as far as. Um, learning to, you know, value my time and my energy. And so part of that growth has led to building a team. So then we can still go above and beyond, provide value for the client at a rate that is.
You know, we're able to charge our customer a rate that values our time and abilities, but still to the point where I'm not taking everything on myself. It's distributed. And, Through throughout my team. So then I can focus on my strong points. And then the other people within my team focus on their strong points.
So it's, it's, uh, it's a group effort as far as that, because now with some of the health issues that I have, stress plays a big factor in it. So I have to. Be very specific about how much I can take on, um, to continue to keep up with, um, some of my health struggles that I have.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:10:53] So there's a lot that has to be balanced here, and there's a lot that you're juggling and there's a lot that requires open transparency with your clients. I think I can relate to this in terms of like being really transparent about when Google completely sucks over my business schedule, right? Caitlyn can relate especially with what's been going on recently in her life.
how do you. Cause I struggle with this too. How do you let go of the pride and the fear around sharing what's going on so that your clients like understand what's going on in it doesn't just come across that you're screwing around. Cause that's always my fear.
Carey Osenbau: [00:11:35] Right. Um, that's a hard one because there is that whole thing.
Do you share your struggles online in fear of then people aren't going to book you because. They have issues and they probably can't give my Mmm. My project, their full attention. So it's been interesting because one of the groups that I have found through the rising tide society, there is a small group called the, um, for people with chronic illnesses.
So that's been interesting to be able to connect with people who are struggling with some of the same issues that you have. But, um, I am not, I haven't been 100% that's one thing I still do struggle with. Like for instance, and I haven't shared this with a lot of people. Last summer I had a miscarriage and I was down for probably a month and I didn't, I didn't share it with many people, but I think one of the things that really helped was.
Building. And I think with, with having a team in place, um, that is really important as you continue to like grow a business is you can have people that you depend on that can be there to pick up those pieces when you can't. And that has been a huge game changer. Like having people on my team, like Caitlyn, like I know. Without a doubt that I can rely on her. If I have to step up, step back, that she can, she can do everything in my business. And that's a little scary sometimes, but I have that full trust in her and it's also like, yes, having somebody that works for you, but building those relationships with those people that you can build that trust in them and they can take over for you if you are not being able or if you're not, to be able to.
Be there 100% and take a step back.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:26] I agree. I mean, outside of the fact that I love working with you, Carey, I think that when you have health issues, knowing that. Somebody can be there to pick up the Slack if, if you need, like that is a game changer for business owners. Um, and I think that so many people are afraid to grow their team, but at the end of the day, if, especially if there are things like that, it's super important to make sure that you're sharing your knowledge with your team in case anything happens. Because. I actually had a client two years ago who went to the hospital for two weeks, like was in the hospital, couldn't communicate with anybody and. The team had to keep working. We couldn't just stop our work. Um, so making sure that you're communicating with your team in case you ever do, find yourself outside of, outside of your position or in a place where you know, you, you have a miscarriage or you're having a baby. Um, making it self-reliant a little bit.
Carey Osenbau: [00:14:33] Yeah. And I think that goes both ways. Like just in the last few weeks, like even with your situation, not being able to be like 100% I recognize that. And so like we just shift focus to other things at the time until you're able to come back and be like 100% so I think that that goes, I think when you have a really.
Good, cohesive team. Um, there can be a lot of sliding back and forth and focusing on what needs to at the time. So if anybody's going through, because I mean, business is business and we're not big giant corporate businesses where, okay. Jim's gone for the week. Like Bob, you take over. Right? So, I mean, these are small businesses.
We work closely with clients, and so you have to be able to be flexible and there's always seasons. So just having that strong, team environment and communication is really important when you're running a small business.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:33] So I want to shift gears a little because I think that this also delves into just overall project management and the way that you're thinking about things and legacy planning. We hear all the time about business owners who haven't planned for what happens for their business, and then it ends up in probate and it's a whole thing.
Um, what. Project management tools are you using? How do you use them? What are the processes that you really get excited about that make all of this shifting and adjusting more logical?
Carey Osenbau: [00:16:06] So doing this for a long time for, I was in the camp of let's fly by the seat of your pants, right? So when you go through things like.
You know, health issues, you realize, well, this isn't really working for me anymore and I should probably be a little bit more organized. So even before I brought a project manager on, I started using tools. So one of the things that I love using, I can't remember it, he's a couple of years back because to me it doesn't matter anymore.
But we love asana I love I love Google Google calendar If I didn't have Google calendar my whole life would fall apart Mmm And I use a CRM that kind of manages all of our clients and everything So I use 17 hats I've gone through and used them all and that seemed to be the one that worked the best for my business So we've set up automations for um lead generation Um And I think onboarding and those types of things But one of the really cool things by bringing somebody in like caitlyn is she um with her help we've been able to develop processes for the different types of services that we offer So and what's so we have taken like a whole project So say you're building a site from scratch We have everything from Collecting information from the client to onboarding them to the design phase the development phase review launch and then offboarding So we have gone through multiple projects We're able to look at look at each one after we finish and say okay so when we have our quarterly business meetings we say okay let's go over each one of our projects and say what was great about this one and what could we have done differently So then we're able to find tune our processes and then and so with each different type of project now it's kind of like second nature So it was interesting I think even the last um this last year We had issues where we had all these clients booked and then some of these clients were getting held up and one of the processes and then it created this like you know uh everything ended up getting backed up So then we had like three or four projects all at once So then our small team is not able to give the level of focus to the each of the clients So then we realized okay then we need to go back and Essentially even we decided even to put in a week zero for our process So are we zero is everything that the client actually has to get to us before we will even start or touch anything Cause we realized With clients not providing us content or things that we needed that that's started to bunch up our systems So being able to recognize that put new things in place for processes So now we've almost have it to where our process essentially if anybody else had to come in they could see that the way that we have it all laid out and take over if needed
Caitlyn Allen: [00:19:26] Yeah Having a full process outlined It also helps with that legacy right Because if for whatever reason carey or I was out for a week we could have one of our other people on the team come in and see where we are in the process and be able to walk through those steps pretty pretty smoothly Um so I think Making sure that you have those in place especially as you're hiring or hiring somebody to help you make those is a really good business move. Carey what what is something that you've seen so you've been doing this for a while What is something that you've seen change in the business or entrepreneur online entrepreneur world? From the beginning to now? What is something like a big shift that you've seen?
Carey Osenbau: [00:20:14] Um the way that it's really the way that marketing is done Um even in the beginning working for companies we didn't have the whole social media space We didn't have I mean there were still Google search. There was like if you really want to get any advertisement we I worked for an ergonomic company and the like you know Mid two thousands and you'd have to send in a whole request to get your product reviewed So they would stick it in the you know Mack magazine at the time and then that could take like months and you know or even advertising in print There's a lot of advertising in print So that's before The online space really completely like ramped up You'd have websites for information and then we started getting into being able to purchase online Um but that has been the biggest shift is is The ability to be able to market yourself online essentially for little to no cost and connect with people and build a community with with the inter with the internet and the social media channels like that has been a huge thing And and also the shift in And I talked to my husband about this all the time because he works in corporate America The way that the advertising of old and the way that we connect and advertise and build relationships now online is a lot different especially for I think females in this space to be able to like you know I know a gal in California and she does this and I have friends up in Michigan So uh one of the biggest changes that ha I have seen in over the last years is how female entrepreneurs have kind of changed the space to be able to connect and market products I'm using social channels Mmm Even a few years back The options for women We're to essentially be secretaries or go through um different you know if they went for further in college work for advertising agencies you can work in some kind of like corporate So to be able to be a female entrepreneur to raise families you really had limited options um for like stay at home moms Like you could get a couple more kids and like start you know babysit kids and make some extra money or different things Or maybe start A little side crafting or um but just the ability to for women to be able to shift and use the online space to be able to develop a product develop idea and market and make just as much money as they could working You know a nine to five job has has been a huge shift and the community aspect of it the way that women are supporting each other It's not this you know Mmm dog eat dog You know You know I'm not going to support you because I'm out there trying to get the same type of business that you are You can have Connections with people that do the same type of thing because like they say there is enough you know there is is enough work There is enough opportunities out there because you can reach so many more people Now
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:23:37] I think that that's so spot on We have such an opportunity to be stronger here and in a lot of ways that needs to be done So this has been a truly awesome episode Thank you so much for uh giving us your time I would love for the audience to be able to connect with you. Where can they come hang out with you online?
Carey Osenbau: [00:23:58] Um I'm mainly on Instagram just at Cor marketing And um that's my main thing I also website cormarketinggroup.com he can connect with me there Also believe we're on Pinterest and LinkedIn Um so yeah.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:24:17] Well thank you so much for hanging out today and we'll have all of that length in the show notes
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Carey Osenbau of Cor Marketing Group.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
How you can build your side hustle solely from referrals.
How to. build connections for your businesses outside of just your client referrals.
The difference between finding a client organically vs a referral and how to approach each.
Finding the difference between going above and beyond for a client and going too far.
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FOLLOW YOUR HOSTS: D Website | D Instagram // C Website | C Instagram
Episode Transcript
Caitlyn Allen: [00:00:21] Hey guys, welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. I am so excited today because we have Carey of cor marketing. Um, Carey and I met a couple of years ago, um, when Rosemary Watson, um, connected us. We went to a like retreat together type thing. Um, and it was just, it was so much fun to connect with entrepreneurs and that's something that a lot of us probably don't do, especially for side hustling. There is a lot of work that's going into it. So I'm taking the time to go out and meet people, uh, can bring you business because now Carey and I work together. So Carey, tell us a little bit about, you.
Carey Osenbau: [00:01:06] Um, my name is Carey Osenbau I have kind of been in this, um, what you would call like web and marketing space, probably almost 15 years now.
I started back in early two thousands before this whole. Online VA space really was a big thing. It was just starting to pick up steam. I worked in the legal field and realized very quickly with two small children that that wasn't going to be an option for me anymore unless I wanted to pay massive amounts of money to.
For daycare costs and what's the point of working at that point? So, um, I quickly, I had to find another solution and I stumbled upon this world of, um, designing websites, designing e-commerce. So I quickly dove in, made some connections, and. Started, um, providing those services, um, learning all that I could about design and development.
I'm pretty much self, self taught myself from the very beginning. Um, since then I worked for multiple companies, um, worked for startups, Mmm. Wellness practitioners. And so learning the ins and outs of all their different types of businesses, but all while still continuing to provide, Mmm. You know, services to other clients on the side.
So I was still, while I had like full time jobs throughout my, um, for the last 15 years, I always continue to work on the side building websites, um, making connections, um, and essentially continuing to run that type of business. Ref mainly off of just referrals. So, you know, I would do something for somebody and then they're like, Hey, you know, Carrie's really good at what she does.
If you need a website, go give her a call. So. For the longest time, I've essentially grown my side business based purely off of referrals. Um, I did go back to school and get my biz finished up, my business degree. So I was able to kind of connect all the pieces as far as being able to help small businesses and medium sized businesses, tie everything together through marketing, through business structure, and then also design and development and marketing their businesses online.
Mmm. So I think seven years ago, after working full time for a wellness practitioner, I, um, was pregnant with my now seven year old and I decided to jump back into taking my side hustle full time. And so, um, continued to grow. Over the last two years, I've gotten so busy that I decided, um, that it was time to build a team.
And so, I mean, last year we did our first, um, six figure year, and it's been a, an amazing kind of journey and all the, uh, the Austin businesses that we get to work with.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:04:08] So it really sounds like a lot of connections have brought you the business that you've had. How do you. Like, how do you build those connections, um, outside of like, of course somebody is a, a client and then they're referring, but how have you really built those connections? And then the followup question to that is, are the. Times that you connect with people who are referrals. Is that ever awkward? Um like, Oh, well this person knew you, so you must be good type of thing, versus they're finding you organically and they think that you're good, if that makes sense?
Carey Osenbau: [00:04:49] Okay. Um, so as far as being able to connect with people, that's always been a big struggle for me.
Um. I don't know. I don't consider myself an introvert. Once I get to know somebody, I kind of like open up and like blossom. And then, you know, I'm a chatterbox, but it's, I've always been kind of shy in nature. So that's always been one area that I've struggled in. So I've been, I kind of look for opportunities and honestly, um, with the online Instagram community has really, um, made it easier to connect with people.
That are doing the same types of work that you're doing and being a, you know, a work from home entrepreneur, it's really hard to get out unless there's somebody that's put something together. I'm some kind of community to where that you can get out and meet other type of like minded business owners.
So having the Instagram community has been amazing. Um, and the opportunities that have actually come from that. And being able to promote other people because you're meeting all different types of people that do different things. So if you're niched and specialized in one specific thing, you may have, um.
Somebody that you've connected with that maybe does similar type of work, but if they say, specialize in Squarespace and they come across a client that needs Shopify help, then they're, because you've made that connection and you've built that trust factor with them, they're more willing to give you that referral because you have built that.
Um. That relationship with them. Um, and then one thing that has really helped too with the referral base business is is essentially how you treat your customers. And, you know, I tried to always provide the best experience, um, go above and beyond. Um. What my offering is, and really tried to educate and, and give the best product that I can.
And that has really helped too. Um, it's, the service that you provide is also self-promotion because if, if your client has a great experience, obviously they're going to refer you to other people because once you build that trust with a client, there. More willing to give you, like they're trusted people that they have relationships with. So, um, and then the second part of your question was, can you, um,
Caitlyn Allen: [00:07:21] yeah. So do you ever find it awkward when you have a. Referral come through, um, where they just, instead of knowing your work and knowing what you offer, they just kind of come in and are like, well, you've worked with this person, so I'm sure that you can do this. Like, is it ever awkward trying to explain your products to somebody who already thinks that you can give them what they need?
Carey Osenbau: [00:07:48] Um, I think I've been in this business so long that maybe in the beginning it was, I mean, I've had some, um. Maybe drawbacks to that. But as I've continued to grow and I'm actually like one of the things that has helped with that as, as far as like niching, but I do understand what you're saying.
Cause sometimes if you niche so far down, people are like, well, do you do this? And being like. With my company, we are kind of like a one stop shop. We do a lot of different things. So, um, it is surprising to clients sometimes all of the different types of services that we offer because we don't always communicate that in our marketing and advertising.
Um, and then also, um, as far as people that maybe just organically have found me, um, it's usually based. Same. It's based on what we have advertised our services to be, but then once you get to know the the customer, then it's easier to kind of just tell them like all the additional stuff
Caitlyn Allen: [00:08:50] So some things that he liked to go above and beyond for a client. But let's talk about going above and beyond for a client because there can be going above and beyond and shooting yourself in the foot. So how have you dealt with that? Um, are you dealing with that? Has that been a struggle?
Carey Osenbau: [00:09:08] Well over, probably I say the last, um, this last phase of my business going, working for myself full time.
I have dealt with lots of issues as far as, you know, undercharging, undervaluing my work. Um. And, and as a freelancer in the beginning, trying to do and serve and do more, like going above and beyond essentially is led myself to burn out multiple times and having, you know, adrenal fatigue and then finding out I have thyroid issues.
So through that whole process, I've had a lot of growth as far as, and I've worked with some like one-on-one coaches as far as. Um, learning to, you know, value my time and my energy. And so part of that growth has led to building a team. So then we can still go above and beyond, provide value for the client at a rate that is.
You know, we're able to charge our customer a rate that values our time and abilities, but still to the point where I'm not taking everything on myself. It's distributed. And, Through throughout my team. So then I can focus on my strong points. And then the other people within my team focus on their strong points.
So it's, it's, uh, it's a group effort as far as that, because now with some of the health issues that I have, stress plays a big factor in it. So I have to. Be very specific about how much I can take on, um, to continue to keep up with, um, some of my health struggles that I have.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:10:53] So there's a lot that has to be balanced here, and there's a lot that you're juggling and there's a lot that requires open transparency with your clients. I think I can relate to this in terms of like being really transparent about when Google completely sucks over my business schedule, right? Caitlyn can relate especially with what's been going on recently in her life.
how do you. Cause I struggle with this too. How do you let go of the pride and the fear around sharing what's going on so that your clients like understand what's going on in it doesn't just come across that you're screwing around. Cause that's always my fear.
Carey Osenbau: [00:11:35] Right. Um, that's a hard one because there is that whole thing.
Do you share your struggles online in fear of then people aren't going to book you because. They have issues and they probably can't give my Mmm. My project, their full attention. So it's been interesting because one of the groups that I have found through the rising tide society, there is a small group called the, um, for people with chronic illnesses.
So that's been interesting to be able to connect with people who are struggling with some of the same issues that you have. But, um, I am not, I haven't been 100% that's one thing I still do struggle with. Like for instance, and I haven't shared this with a lot of people. Last summer I had a miscarriage and I was down for probably a month and I didn't, I didn't share it with many people, but I think one of the things that really helped was.
Building. And I think with, with having a team in place, um, that is really important as you continue to like grow a business is you can have people that you depend on that can be there to pick up those pieces when you can't. And that has been a huge game changer. Like having people on my team, like Caitlyn, like I know. Without a doubt that I can rely on her. If I have to step up, step back, that she can, she can do everything in my business. And that's a little scary sometimes, but I have that full trust in her and it's also like, yes, having somebody that works for you, but building those relationships with those people that you can build that trust in them and they can take over for you if you are not being able or if you're not, to be able to.
Be there 100% and take a step back.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:26] I agree. I mean, outside of the fact that I love working with you, Carey, I think that when you have health issues, knowing that. Somebody can be there to pick up the Slack if, if you need, like that is a game changer for business owners. Um, and I think that so many people are afraid to grow their team, but at the end of the day, if, especially if there are things like that, it's super important to make sure that you're sharing your knowledge with your team in case anything happens. Because. I actually had a client two years ago who went to the hospital for two weeks, like was in the hospital, couldn't communicate with anybody and. The team had to keep working. We couldn't just stop our work. Um, so making sure that you're communicating with your team in case you ever do, find yourself outside of, outside of your position or in a place where you know, you, you have a miscarriage or you're having a baby. Um, making it self-reliant a little bit.
Carey Osenbau: [00:14:33] Yeah. And I think that goes both ways. Like just in the last few weeks, like even with your situation, not being able to be like 100% I recognize that. And so like we just shift focus to other things at the time until you're able to come back and be like 100% so I think that that goes, I think when you have a really.
Good, cohesive team. Um, there can be a lot of sliding back and forth and focusing on what needs to at the time. So if anybody's going through, because I mean, business is business and we're not big giant corporate businesses where, okay. Jim's gone for the week. Like Bob, you take over. Right? So, I mean, these are small businesses.
We work closely with clients, and so you have to be able to be flexible and there's always seasons. So just having that strong, team environment and communication is really important when you're running a small business.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:33] So I want to shift gears a little because I think that this also delves into just overall project management and the way that you're thinking about things and legacy planning. We hear all the time about business owners who haven't planned for what happens for their business, and then it ends up in probate and it's a whole thing.
Um, what. Project management tools are you using? How do you use them? What are the processes that you really get excited about that make all of this shifting and adjusting more logical?
Carey Osenbau: [00:16:06] So doing this for a long time for, I was in the camp of let's fly by the seat of your pants, right? So when you go through things like.
You know, health issues, you realize, well, this isn't really working for me anymore and I should probably be a little bit more organized. So even before I brought a project manager on, I started using tools. So one of the things that I love using, I can't remember it, he's a couple of years back because to me it doesn't matter anymore.
But we love asana I love I love Google Google calendar If I didn't have Google calendar my whole life would fall apart Mmm And I use a CRM that kind of manages all of our clients and everything So I use 17 hats I've gone through and used them all and that seemed to be the one that worked the best for my business So we've set up automations for um lead generation Um And I think onboarding and those types of things But one of the really cool things by bringing somebody in like caitlyn is she um with her help we've been able to develop processes for the different types of services that we offer So and what's so we have taken like a whole project So say you're building a site from scratch We have everything from Collecting information from the client to onboarding them to the design phase the development phase review launch and then offboarding So we have gone through multiple projects We're able to look at look at each one after we finish and say okay so when we have our quarterly business meetings we say okay let's go over each one of our projects and say what was great about this one and what could we have done differently So then we're able to find tune our processes and then and so with each different type of project now it's kind of like second nature So it was interesting I think even the last um this last year We had issues where we had all these clients booked and then some of these clients were getting held up and one of the processes and then it created this like you know uh everything ended up getting backed up So then we had like three or four projects all at once So then our small team is not able to give the level of focus to the each of the clients So then we realized okay then we need to go back and Essentially even we decided even to put in a week zero for our process So are we zero is everything that the client actually has to get to us before we will even start or touch anything Cause we realized With clients not providing us content or things that we needed that that's started to bunch up our systems So being able to recognize that put new things in place for processes So now we've almost have it to where our process essentially if anybody else had to come in they could see that the way that we have it all laid out and take over if needed
Caitlyn Allen: [00:19:26] Yeah Having a full process outlined It also helps with that legacy right Because if for whatever reason carey or I was out for a week we could have one of our other people on the team come in and see where we are in the process and be able to walk through those steps pretty pretty smoothly Um so I think Making sure that you have those in place especially as you're hiring or hiring somebody to help you make those is a really good business move. Carey what what is something that you've seen so you've been doing this for a while What is something that you've seen change in the business or entrepreneur online entrepreneur world? From the beginning to now? What is something like a big shift that you've seen?
Carey Osenbau: [00:20:14] Um the way that it's really the way that marketing is done Um even in the beginning working for companies we didn't have the whole social media space We didn't have I mean there were still Google search. There was like if you really want to get any advertisement we I worked for an ergonomic company and the like you know Mid two thousands and you'd have to send in a whole request to get your product reviewed So they would stick it in the you know Mack magazine at the time and then that could take like months and you know or even advertising in print There's a lot of advertising in print So that's before The online space really completely like ramped up You'd have websites for information and then we started getting into being able to purchase online Um but that has been the biggest shift is is The ability to be able to market yourself online essentially for little to no cost and connect with people and build a community with with the inter with the internet and the social media channels like that has been a huge thing And and also the shift in And I talked to my husband about this all the time because he works in corporate America The way that the advertising of old and the way that we connect and advertise and build relationships now online is a lot different especially for I think females in this space to be able to like you know I know a gal in California and she does this and I have friends up in Michigan So uh one of the biggest changes that ha I have seen in over the last years is how female entrepreneurs have kind of changed the space to be able to connect and market products I'm using social channels Mmm Even a few years back The options for women We're to essentially be secretaries or go through um different you know if they went for further in college work for advertising agencies you can work in some kind of like corporate So to be able to be a female entrepreneur to raise families you really had limited options um for like stay at home moms Like you could get a couple more kids and like start you know babysit kids and make some extra money or different things Or maybe start A little side crafting or um but just the ability to for women to be able to shift and use the online space to be able to develop a product develop idea and market and make just as much money as they could working You know a nine to five job has has been a huge shift and the community aspect of it the way that women are supporting each other It's not this you know Mmm dog eat dog You know You know I'm not going to support you because I'm out there trying to get the same type of business that you are You can have Connections with people that do the same type of thing because like they say there is enough you know there is is enough work There is enough opportunities out there because you can reach so many more people Now
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:23:37] I think that that's so spot on We have such an opportunity to be stronger here and in a lot of ways that needs to be done So this has been a truly awesome episode Thank you so much for uh giving us your time I would love for the audience to be able to connect with you. Where can they come hang out with you online?
Carey Osenbau: [00:23:58] Um I'm mainly on Instagram just at Cor marketing And um that's my main thing I also website cormarketinggroup.com he can connect with me there Also believe we're on Pinterest and LinkedIn Um so yeah.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:24:17] Well thank you so much for hanging out today and we'll have all of that length in the show notes
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Belma McCaffrey of Work Bigger.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
What it takes to get your side hustle off the ground and into a full-time gig.
Knowing when it is time to make pivots in your side hustle.
Connecting with your pain points and coming back stronger from them.
Audio Freebie!
GET MORE: Website | Instagram
FOLLOW YOUR HOSTS: D Website | D Instagram // C Website | C Instagram
Episode Transcript
Belma McCaffrey
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. We're so excited to have Belma McCaffrey here today from work, bigger talking about all things side hustling, and Belma. Thank you so much for being here today.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:00:34] My pleasure. Hi ladies. Thank you so much for having me.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:39] Of course, we'd love to hear from you a little bit about what you do and why you identify as a side hustler.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:00:45] Yeah. Uh, so I run a career development coaching platform called work bigger. And our mission is to help people do work they love. That makes an impact that makes a difference in the world without burning out. And we do that through a group coaching membership. We do that through, um, private coaching and also working with organizations to lead to lead trainings.
And I identify as a side hustler because work bigger was a side hustle for, I want to say a little more than two years. Uh, before I started running it full time. And that experience of building, launching, building, and just running a business as a side hustle taught me so much about myself and what it takes to get something off the ground.
And it was. I couldn't have done it without really starting it as, as a side hustle. So yeah, that's why I really, I really connect to the work you ladies are doing here with the podcast. And you know, um, when I heard about you guys, I was like, yes, this is awesome. I know there's like a whole movement of side hustle happening cause I think people are really looking to bring their dreams and their goals to life.
And you can always do it by jumping into it full time. It's not, it's not realistic or possible for everyone. So. Um, being able to start something while you're still working, I think is, it's just powerful. It allows you to get to that, you know, to that longer term vision that you have.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:02:19] Yeah. And I feel like it also allows you to have art to like express passion that you might not be able to in your everyday life or your corporate job, um, on the side as well. So it keeps you, I dunno, for me, when I first started out, it kept me very motivated in my corporate job as well as like, because I was. Finally feeling passionate again, I guess, if that makes sense.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:02:44] Absolutely. It's, um, you're like filling gaps that you can't fill with your, with your nine to five, right. Or with your like full time job. And that's, um. Yeah. And I can share more too about like why I started work bigger and, and all of that, if that'd be helpful for you guys. But
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:03] yeah, we'd love to hear, we'd love to hear more.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:03:06] Yeah. Um, so I started work bigger because of a personal pain point. I, I spent all of my twenties. I was really ambitious and driven like, right as soon as I graduated college.
Uh, but I. You know, I was like excited to be working. I just felt really lost and disconnected a few months into my first job, and I thought the pro, like I thought the job was the problem. I was like, Oh, this just isn't the right job. So. I'm going to go find another job. And I did. And I approached that job.
That other job would like that same like ambition and excitement, but then I would hit a wall and I realized from like, you know, even my college years, I was like approaching my career path just without clarity, without intention. I was trying to answer that question of what do I want to be when I grow up and what do I want to do with my own life?
And. It was really hard. So after working in media for about seven years, I decided to go back to business school full time. So I gave up a pretty. Pretty good salary too, for like for the age that I was at. Uh, and I S yeah, I gave up that salary. I had to pay like all of the tuition that comes with, with business school.
And that's where I saw that all of my classmates are kind of in the same boat. Everybody was like, Oh, we're here in business school cause we're hoping to pivot and we don't know exactly what we want to do with that. But you know, maybe this will be our chance to like do it over. And as I, you know, as I thought about that and just continue to business school, I was like, this is pretty crazy.
Like we're spending all this money. And all this time, and we're still not clear if we're going to get the ROI we're looking for, right? Like maybe we'll make more money, but is it gonna fill that gap that we're all looking to fill with with our careers? So that's kind of when I fell into pers, a professional development and coaching and started really thinking about what can we do to solve this problem, right?
So that we're not spending all this money on grad school. We're really approaching it from a place of intention and clarity and where we have morer purpose behind what we are doing.
So that's, that's why it started. And I also started to see too that as people stayed in this like cycle, I really talk about it as a cycle, right? You like test one job. It's not it. You test another job, you test another job, and then all of the meanwhile you're kind of like stuck in this place of frustration trying to figure it out and it's not working.
I started to see that the longer people were in the cycle, the more they were making compromises and giving up on the things that they really wanted. Like it's okay if I don't, um. Fulfill my longterm dream. I'll just stick with like making some money or it's okay if I don't make a lot of money. And I just thought I was like, what a shame.
Like people are giving up on the stuff they really desire because they aren't seeing that it's possible. So that's why I started it. It just came from like that personal struggle and I was like, this is, this is ridiculous. Like we need to do something. Something about this.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:06:06] That's honestly so relatable. Um, the audience knows that I work at Google in my nine to five, and there's this like assumption that those elite companies, right?
You never experience things like this. Um, but even there, there's. There's a feeling of getting trapped in, of getting stuck in that cycle. Have you heard of the book pivot by Jenny Blake? It's this book cause that talks about, uh, like thinking about your career as pivot points instead of this ladder thing and that seems so in alignment with what you're doing, like setting people up to make those pivots.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:06:48] Yeah, I have heard of that book and I think her, her work is incredible. Um, exactly. And it's about too, like making those pivots, knowing what you're trying out and. You know, putting, you know, intention behind, there's different experiments and tests, right. Versus being like, okay, I'm going to try this, but like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to get out of it. Right. So you have like clear metrics in terms of what you want to get. Yeah.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:15] So I'm curious, you talk about this being a loop and a loop can kind of go two directions, right? The loop can either suck you in tighter and tighter and tighter, so it's impossible to escape that circle, or the loop can propel you out and spit you out really fast and hard. And I'm curious what advice you would give to people trying to achieve that second thing while they're stuck in the loop.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:07:44] So the loop that propels you out as the propelling of positive, or is it like, I'm so burned out, I'm just giving up? Or like I need to take like a break. What is, how do you define us for talent?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:55] But it honestly could go either way, right? Like you get chewed up in spat out or you get propelled into the next best thing.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:08:03] Yeah, so I love, I love that you use that example. I think the propelling, like the way I see that happening, and I talk about this too at work bigger is you get this feeling right then I'm like, I need to get out of the cycle, and then you start to, it's kind of what happened to me. I see. I was like, I need to use this stressful experience and I need to make something of it. Um, so I do think a positive can come out of that, and what I encourage people to do is that when they're feeling that like, I'm ready, I need to do something different. I'm really done with this cycle. Take advantage of that moment.
Don't ignore that because it's when you ignore that, that you can then like stuck in that cycle that like just gets tighter and tighter. Right? So it's really about listening to yourself. And if you don't know how, right, you're like, okay, well I'm going to break the cycle. I don't know how get help. Cause there's, I think there's so many people now who are looking for that and working through that. Um, but I think the first step is to listen to your voice. Listen to like that thing that's telling you to do something different. That's that I think is such an important moment.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:09:11] And how would you say. I think that I can relate to that on so many different levels because I, I was AmeriCorps Vista, which is domestic peace Corps, and when I started my, that's when I started my side hustle because Dannie's awesome and brought me in and was like, Hey, Caitlyn, I need help. Um, so. I can relate to getting out of the cycle of saying, I hate my job 24/7 or I hate this lifestyle because it's what I've chosen, even though, you know, I've signed a contract or whatever. But I think having that second job the. Being able to help other people on top of what I was doing, which if you are AmeriCorps or have ever been AmeriCorps, you totally understand that you are helping people in that capacity as well, but being able to do it and like your own way or doing something different only in the end. Can help uplift you out of like a dark, like a whole you feel like you're in, especially in corporate America or in a job that you just absolutely you think that you hate, but you really don't hate what, what would be, what do you think is the first step to, um. I guess like starting your side hustle or , you know, transitioning into starting a business. How, how did you do that transition and what would you say is a recommendation that you would see.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:10:42] Yeah, so it took me a few iterations. It was not like so clear cut at all. Actually, before business school, I had all of these ideas. I started making jewelry. I wanted to open a food truck with my family because we're Albanian and my mom makes this incredible food and I'm like, we need to like make a business mom out of your, all of your amazing meals.
So I had all of these ideas, you know, nothing was really clicking or working. And then when I went to business school, I partnered with two friends and we started a company called bold, and it was similar to work bigger and that it was focused on coaching. It was focused on supporting women, it was focused on career development, and that was a side hustle for good.
Oh, you know, we started a while. We were in school, I graduated, I found out I was pregnant with my first child, and then I accepted a full time role at the associated press, but I was so dead set on being an entrepreneur that I was like, I'm going to continue this. I'm going to keep building it, and. I did that for about a year and a half, and that was really challenging.
It didn't work. We had to shut it down, you know, I burned out really badly. But these experiences of testing things and trying things out, and also really connecting to my own. Personal pain points and giving myself some time like I did some, I did some work on myself. I really dug deep and try to figure out like, what is it that you know that I gravitate to?
What am I interests say about me? What do my strengths say about me? Like I started doing a lot of the coaching work that I now teach, and that allowed me to commit to this path that then, you know, when we shut down that business bold. Which was so painful, you know, I thought that was going to be the one.
Um, but when we shut that down, it allowed me to pivot to work bigger. Um, so it was a few iterations, but also really looking and understanding things like my why and understanding who I was and using that to anchor my decisions on what I was going to build. Right. So. I think you can do it that way. I think you can also like, I love what you guys said about using it to fill in certain gaps that you are currently experiencing in the workplace.
I was also experiencing certain gaps in the workplace. I didn't have enough autonomy. I knew I wanted to constantly be creating, I was in a business development roles. So it allowed for, you know, relationship building and strategy are like my two like biggest skills. And I was able to leverage the relationship building piece and some of the strategy piece, but it wasn't enough.
So I also started to, like when I started the side hustle, I started to do things that I wasn't able to do, like more writing. You know, work bigger started as a blog. And I saw, I was like, wow. I was like, writing really gets me in the zone and it allows me to access this part of my brain that's really creative that I wasn't doing in my nine to five.
And that started to also clue me in on my strengths and the things that I like to do so that I could, you know, build the business around those things. So it's such a process. It's like, but you just got to do it. You just got to try something. I think.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:14:03] I definitely agree. I want to pivot briefly because you mentioned strengths, and before we jumped on the recording, we were talking about, um, the creative at heart stuff that was going on. And I'm curious, being Albanian, you have this white straight passing privilege that I also experience as a Latino woman. Uh, and I'm curious what your thoughts are on leaning into your strengths. When it comes to like your ethnic and religious and cultural diversity, um, when you have that weight straight passing privilege and how you leverage that superpower, as I like to call that.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:14:46] So to make sure I'm, I'm understanding and hearing your question right, you're saying, how do I leverage my background as a strength?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:14:56] Exactly.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:14:57] Okay. Yeah. Um, it's interesting. Yeah. I'm, I'm white. Um, I'm an immigrant. I'm also Muslim by family, which you would never know if you looked at me. Um, so actually when all the immigration stuff was happening and there was just so much racism going on, um, towards Muslim people, I. Felt all of that. Like a lot of it really personally and deeply, even though being able to you, you weren't allowed to practice religion because Albania was a communist country, so like they got red of a lot of the mosques are like, you weren't, you just weren't a lots of practice. I didn't grow up with a lot of the traditions, but they didn't have a huge impact on like my dad and like the way he raised us and all of that.
I felt all of that, but I didn't experience any of the racism directly because most people don't know that I'm Muslim. Right? Cause I don't practice and I'm white. So, um, the way I use just being Albanian and even outside of, you know, being Muslim as a strength is I really just have been connecting more deeply to my heritage and, and to that part of me, like the summer.
We went this past summer, I took a big trip with my parents, my siblings, our kids tell me, I know it was so incredible and you know, I'm like sitting there on the beach and my mom is talking, we're talking about the Albanian people and she talks about work and she said to work hardest to love life. And for me, I was like, well, this connects with everything that I'm doing with my life in terms of work bigger and I bring that stuff forward.
I share that because. You know, building work bigger is also so deeply connected to me, being Albanian and to me seeing the struggles that my parents faced. So, and that I faced, like I left there when I was eight, you know, and I remember we didn't have like anything to play with when we were kids. I had like two colored pencils.
We had, you know, we didn't have a lot, you know, and I went and I looked at the apartment building our we lived, and it's, it's, you know, it's not in good condition. You know, and it didn't look like that much better when I lived there. So I turned that into a strength because I use my personal experiences and my personal pain points to bring purpose to my work.
Just like, just like I did with my experience working in corporate. Right. And the disconnection I was facing there. Um, that's how it comes into play for me. And. Yeah. I just feel like it's such a part of who I am. And for a while I just disconnected from Albanian heritage. I, um, had him the back in many years. So it just feels really awesome to connect to it. And to bring, you don't have to think about like, what are the Albanian people like? Right? And what are those parts of that culture that like really live in me like really deeply and that I can, I can bring forward so. Yeah. Does that answer your question?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:18:07] That was so beautiful.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:18:09] Aw, thank you.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:18:11] That was amazing.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:18:12] Thank you.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:18:14] I'm excited to hear a little bit about , like using your culture and how, how does that, or does it play a role in your business now? So. I know that Dannie, with the creative at heart experience or creative at heart conference has spoken out specifically for diversity. Um, but do you, is that influential on your business at all?
Belma McCaffrey: [00:18:45] Okay. Yeah. So Albania is traditionally a very patriarchal. Culture and I experienced a lot of that growing up and it had a big impact on me. And it's a lot of stuff that I've had to unlearn, right? Just in terms of, you know, women are inferior to men, all of this stuff that like honestly drives me nuts and makes my blood boil, but there is a reason like work bigger.
You know, I coached men and women, but work bigger. There's mostly made of women. Um, there's a reason that I've always gravitated to the gender gap and to women's rights. And it's cause I experienced that myself as a kid and I experienced like seeing my mom this incredibly. Strong, amazing woman. I experienced the bitterness.
She feels because of the patriarchy and despite Albania, like despite like those are like the traditions. My mom always raised us very differently. Like she just was like, she like didn't. Buy into those beliefs in many ways. And my dad too, right? Like, we moved here. There was never, um, distinction of like, you're a girl so you can't go to school.
It was never that extreme. I'm with my dad. It was like a little bit more subtle, just like with the dating stuff, you know, my brother versus my sister. And I like, there was like more bias there. But in terms of opportunities, I was lucky in that my parents are more forward thinking. Uh, but I really, I, I.
It's a part of the Albanian culture that I always struggled with when I was younger. I was like, I don't get it. You know? And then sexuality too, like the way people talk about sexuality, like there's just like a lot of, um, close, like it's closed off. Like it's not like a very open culture. So. That stuff plays a role into my work because you know, for work bigger, and even when I started doing bold, I focused heavily on women and you know, I think, um, helping women overcome a lot of the issues like that, that show up around confidence, right?
And imposter syndrome and feeling like you're an inferior and feeling like you can't negotiate and ask for more money cause it's, it's impolite. I was always taught that, don't raise your voice too loud, don't speak up. It's impolite. Respect your elders. Right? Um, I've had to really work through all that stuff for myself, so I could also speak.
Um, to my own needs. So yeah, it plays a role. It plays a role in, in how I coach people, what I coach them on. All that stuff shows up in our work cause we're not raising our hands for opportunities. We're like, you know, staying quietly, waiting to be asked. So, no, I like that. That's not going to work anymore.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:21:34] That's, that's all that's, yeah. That's so cool. I think I, I am obviously white, very American, have no, like. I almost said no culture. That's not right. You know what I mean? I don't have, I'm not different, but I know that living here in Arizona has been so interesting because. I can easily go through a border patrol checkpoint and never be asked my citizenship. Like, that's insane. Like that's literally their job is to ask you your citizenship. And I don't even get asked. Now if I have my native American friends with me, I'm automatically stopped. Um, so that has been. Super influential in the way that I have started thinking in the back of my head every time that I have to go through a checkpoint because to leave my town, I have to. Um, and then seeing the way that, um, at least where I live, the way that Mexican women and the way that Mexican men are treated very differently. Um, I remember my first Christmas with my adopted Mexican family. We had cooked all day and the men sat down at the table and ate first, and we couldn't even touch the food until they were done at the table, which was insane. And soI think for business, it's so awesome to hear women speaking up for other women, and I'm not saying like speak up for them or talk for them, but to be able to lift those voices up because. I, I can't imagine being in a culture that's telling me, well, you're next. You're not first, you're next. Um, it's just so inspiring to hear women of other cultures lifting other women up too. So I guess that was a long winded message of me saying like, thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. I really appreciate it. And there are so many, so many women out there that. Need to hear that, and I think I'm just, I'm excited to share this episode in particular.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:23:47] Yeah. Thank you for sharing that in the example you bring out. That's it's, that's so fascinating, right? And it's like when you're like, I'm just thinking back to like growing up, it's like the women were the ones who were always cleaning up. Like after dinner, the women are the ones who are cooking and cleaning and all of that stuff. And. For me. I don't know. That didn't, just didn't sit well with me since I was a little girl, you know? I just didn't like it and I always questioned it. So I thank you for like just for saying everything you said, because yeah, I'm like, I just think we can be different. Like we can respect traditions and honor cultures and all of that, but I think it's important for everyone to feel seen and heard and respected and not, you know, not be second. You know?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:24:36] So I want to celebrate the power of speaking up and sharing our accomplishments even when we work in environments or experienced cultures where that's not normal. So I'd love to know what is something that you've accomplished in the past year that either blows your mind that you accomplished it, or like you're just really proud of accomplishing this thing.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:25:01] Yeah. Thank you for asking that. It's such a good question. Um, so I launched the work bigger community last and April of 2019. Just, yeah, less than a year ago. Um, it's a, it's a membership community really. Primarily what, what members get is group coaching and it makes coaching more affordable, more accessible.
And I really, it took me a long time to launch it. I was so nervous. I had a free community before that and I just was really stuck. I was like, do I shut down this community? What is that going to be like? Um. And as the community keeps growing, and you know, we're now almost a year into it, not quite yet. It just has evolved into this awesome product. Like the content in the trainings we have in there are so good and the members are amazing and everybody's like showing up to help each other. And there's just so much like authenticity and connection and support in the group and its becoming what I always wanted to make available for um. It's what I needed, but it's also like what I see. I'm like, this is what I wanted to make possible and what I wanted to make available in the world. And that's what it's turning into. You know? And it's, it's not a year old yet, but I just am feeling so proud of. Like, you know, what we've built and in a short amount of time, I'd say so. Yeah. So I'm really, really proud of that.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:26:31] That's so cool. I'm so excited to check it out. Um, I heard that you have a freebie, so I'd love to hear more about that. And can you tell our audience where they can find you.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:26:43] Yeah. Uh, so you can find me. The website is worth bigger.co uh, you can also find us on Instagram at work bigger. Uh, we're starting to be more active on there and we offer like, you know, just a little fun coaching exercises to keep people growing and learning. Uh, the freebie we have is we have a free audio training to help you overcome and work through your burnout. So if you're feeling. Really stress, I think especially if you, um, are launching the side hustle, running a side hustle, thinking about it, this is really important. I burned out really badly when I started my first side hustle.
Um, so this is an audio training to help support you and, uh, just pick up some quick practical tools that you can put into action to help you work through your overwhelm. And burnout. Um, and the place to find that is workbigger.co/sidehustlegal. So it's the name of, of your podcasts. So work bigger.co forward slash side hustle gal.
And yeah, there's three parts to it. It's really, and it's called take the first step to break the cycle of burnout and do work you love faster.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:27:56] That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much as well for hanging out with us today. This is a fantastic episode.
Belma McCaffrey: [00:28:07] Thank you ladies. It's, it's my pleasure. And you asked some really fun questions and, um, I appreciate you just giving me the space to, to share my story and to, to share more about work bigger and I love what, what you guys are doing as well, so thank you.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:28:22] Thank you.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are having a Jam Session on The Downsides of Hustle Culture.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
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Episode Transcript - Downsides of Hustle Culture
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] All right. Welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. We've got a doozy for you today. You're hanging out with just me and Caitlyn for another one of our jam sessions, and today we're going to dive in to the downsides of hustle culture. Uh, so we've got a few different topics that we want to talk about with you.
We're going to cover burnout, hustle-porn privilege, and how that factors in and unsustainable expectations and unhealthy lifestyles. So Caitlyn, let's start with the last two and I'm going to toss it to you.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:00:51] Yeah. So I think for me, hustle culture has really impacted, um, me to have unsustainable expectations and unhealthy lifestyle choices.
I think a lot of the times. When we think of hustle culture, we think, Oh, we can get all of this done and then we'll have a break. But especially when you continue to hustle and continue to hustle and continue to hustle, you never get that break. Um, because you've created this unsustainable expectation to yourself, into your clients and to those around you that.
You can continue to do all of the things that you're putting on your plate and that they're putting on your plate. Um, which then of course leads to some unhealthy lifestyles, like not sleeping or not taking. Um. Time off for yourself, which then leads to burnout, which is another thing that we've talked about.
So I think for me, that's really what a hustle culture has. Um, how, how it has impacted me personally. And. It's not a sustainable expectation to continue to hustle and continue to hustle and continue to hustle. Because at the end of the day, if you're just hustling and you're not putting, you know, systems or processes, um, for yourself, but also for your business in place, all you're doing is doing a lot of work that. You didn't have to do in the long run. Dannie, how do you think, do you feel like you've seen the unsustainable expectations that unhealthy lifestyles?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:02:35] I feel like. A lot of this in some ways is what I experienced when I began side hustling, right? The side hustlers experience hustle culture in a completely different way than full time entrepreneurs because we have less time.
We have more expectations because we want this thing to do well, right? Because we're dedicating the very limited and precious time that we have to it. So I think that. It all, it all boils down to unreasonable expectations. We set unreasonable expectations. It leads down healthy lifestyles. It leads to burnout.
It leads to a lot of these other things. So I guess what I'm saying is. We need a gut check and a reality check on the way that we're goal setting. Cause everything comes back to that, right? Like the messages that we're feeding ourselves during our goal setting process plan in effect, the way that we behave as a result.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:32] Yeah, definitely. And it's also when you're setting those goals, making, making sure that you're checking in with yourself and your body, um, and how your feeling because yeah, $100,000 might feel attainable because you can hustle your way to it, but is it actually attainable for your body? And for. Yourself at that given given point, and maybe it's not, and that doesn't mean you're a failure if it's not.
It just means that you have to take yourself into consideration into these goal setting scenarios. So I think that especially with the unhealthy lifestyle, that's something that we really, especially a side hustlers like. Going to work? Are you making breakfast or are you making lunch at in the morning?
Or are you getting lunch delivered to work when you come home because you're side hustling? What are you eating? Like the, just the simple basics of putting stuff into your body. Are you able to go to the gym and get a workout in or are you able to take some downtime in the evening to do some yoga or even meditation?
Um. And I'm not saying that you have to be working out at the gym. What I'm saying is you also need to be putting time and energy into helping your body, because that's the only way that you'll continue to have energy. And if you don't have energy, you're not going to want to do anything. And that's only going to be more stressful on the long run. Um, which leads to burnout. So, Dannie, let's talk a little bit about burnout.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:05:09] Oh, burnout. I feel like there are two kinds of people in this world. Those that plan for burnout and those that don't, and I fall in the second camp. I grind and I grind in my grind and grind and grind, and then all of a sudden burned and I'm Burntout and I shut down for 24 hours and then I grind and I grind and grind and grind.
It's just a cycle. I feel like Maddox would. I have some, some, some thoughts on this subject, but burnout doesn't necessarily mean either that your body and your mind are completely run ragged. Burnout could surface as irritability, forgetfulness, hunger. Like how many times have we as entrepreneurs, sat nine to five in our desk chairs?
Three back to back meetings, meetings, and completely forgotten about lunch. I mean, I think it goes back to the like unhealthy lifestyles piece, but burnout is more than just the like complete and utter shutdown that we think about and burnout. Burnout is producing lower quality work because you've got too much on your plate.
I mean, I've been there. I remember like five years ago, I delivered a project to a client and it wasn't my best work. And I was like, I know this isn't my best work, but I'm so tired. And like, it shouldn't take sending that email to a client to realize that. Um, so when we're thinking about burnout, it's.
Creating spaces to pause. I remember the first time I ever meditated and I'm so not a woo person, and I was so like skeeved out and doubting about meditation, but I remember it. It was with my good friend Dalma and she was leading this meditation. She started the meditation with a full body scan, and even if I don't have the patience for meditation, that full body scan shocked me.
The tension I was holding in my jaw, the tension I was holding in my shoulders, the clenching that was happening in my gut and my knees and my toes. I've been doing it for so long. I, I didn't notice. I had no idea that this was happening. And so. I think that in the same way we can do a full body scan of our physical bodies for the purpose of meditation, we can do a full mental scam to check in on burnout.
Um, and so I think we can schedule it in our calendar. Like Rana Pomeroy talks about CEO check-ins on Fridays, right? To check in on how your business is going. But what if we scheduled five minutes to. Just like listen in on and throw away our mental clutter. And I think that both of those things together could really help prevent burnout.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:07:54] Yeah. And I think we all experienced burnout very differently for Dannie. She can just take 24 hours and like turn off for a little bit and then turn back on. Um, for me it's very different. It's that I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then I'm being an asshole and I'm, my friends have to be like, Caitlyn, what's, what's going on there?
Um, and then I have to take a week or a couple of weeks to really like check in with myself, figure out where I'm feeling the burnout. Um, is it. My client work isn't a expectations that I've put on myself. Is it this is it that, like I really have to dig deep into , um, where I'm feeling, uh, the, the pressure I think.
Um, so I, I, I've always found it interesting that people call it burnout. For me. It's like. Pressure, like pressurized. Um, because that's, that's how I tend to feel it and I tend to hold on to it. Um, but I agree. Even just checking in with yourself at the end of the week, or even at the end of the month or even quarterly when you're writing your goals, like, Hey, does this actually feel attainable this month?
Um, I think. Well, exactly what you said, Dannie. That was, that's so good to just start doing that.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:09:20] Nailed it. Absolutely nailed that. So I want to talk about hustle porn, and I want to pause and say that my friend Blake of the girl named Blake on Instagram and the crappy Christian podcast, um, talks about this so much better than I could.
She talks about Rachel Hollis and. This idea that like hustle can be completely glamorized without any of the downsides. Uh, Rachel Hollis recently posted on her Instagram feed, absolutely sobbing and devastated because she had to send her team work from home. Like that's not the end of the world, but it's because hustle culture has been so.
Glamorized that there's almost a sexual level of satisfaction from it. And that's where we see the advent of hustle porn, like these images and these ideas and these quotes of the hustle being so glamorized that you literally get off on the perceived productivity of hustle and
Caitlyn Allen: [00:10:29] Productivity. Oh my God, I can't like when. I feel like that is like the subculture of hustle culture, right? Like that perceived notion that if you're just productive today, it'll be so much better for you to hustle harder. Um, I just went on a tangent, but I feel like that is like the epitome of what, like. Gets people off like, but I got that many things into my agenda today, and I took that 10 minute break in between because I did the Pomodoro method. So it must be great. Like what? I dunno if Dannie thoughts,
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:11:05] so I'm right there with you because I used to be that person. Uh, I was adding like shit that didn't need to be added to do list to my to do list for the satisfaction of checking it off. And I'm some level that's great. Like you need, that's why the snowball method works right?
And debt repayment because you need small wins to incentivize those big wins. But if you're doing that every day. Well, I have so many thoughts on how support, and that could be like an entire podcast by itself with like a 10 episode series. But
Caitlyn Allen: [00:11:38] yeah, and I find this very interesting because before Dannie had brought this up before this episode, I had never heard of.
The notion of hustle porn, but I just, I always think back to when you're scrolling your Instagram feed and you see hustle hard girl, or like the different quotes that people absolutely like piss themselves over. I just think of like hustle hard girl, except for at the end of the day, you're not going to be able to sleep because you're going to have so many thoughts running through your head and you're not going to know how to handle it.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:12:10] Yeah. All right, so let's wrap this conversation. On hustle culture up with a little check-in about privilege, right? Because, and we're going to take it back to Rachel Hollis and Blake is going to laugh because she's turned me into an anti Rachel Hollis girl. I mean, I was
before Blake, but.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:12:31] Yeah. I couldn't read the books because of the religion, like the first page or two. I'm like, wait, what?
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:12:36] Well, and I mean like, like even as a Christian woman is like, some of this is so not Christian. Yeah. But I'll let Blake do that blessed work that she is called to do and I will butcher it. So let's let Blake do that work. But privilege, right? Rachel Hollis is a rich ass white woman. Like. And there's so much and privilege and having wealth and preaching about the hustle.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:05] I find it so interesting that the people that I've always looked up to in the whole hustle culture, because I bought into it for such a long time, have been stay at home moms or like stay at home wives. Who have a second. The dogs even think that this is ridiculous.
Um, that they have a second income that can support them even if they burn out and have to stop working for a little bit. Um, I've always found that. I think that's what turned me off of hustle culture was the fact that people don't realize the privilege that they have when they're hustling and hustling because they have somebody else who could pick up the Slack if they needed.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:13:55] Yeah. I think that's really spot on. The the like what is your safety net and how reliable is it. Uh, because if you have a really reliable safety net, if you could jump off that cliff and someone would catch you a third of the way down every single time.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:14:14] Well that in the health aspect of it too, right? So for me, hustling for two months means I have an Epstein-Barr flare up and for the next three weeks I can't really work much.
Or I have, I'm sick. I don't have the privilege of. Going to the doctor and saying, I need an IV. I need this. I need, I need medicine that's going to help me, help me get better. Um, because I don't have health insurance, or I do, but my health insurance doesn't cover anything like that. Like it's, it's to that point where if you get sick, you can go to the doctor and get help. Some people can't. Some people that are hustling have no. No fall back there.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:02] Yeah. I wish we had the answers. I think that talking about this helps normalize it. And if you are listening and you haven't talked about the impact that how's the culture has on you. I encourage you to share that with someone today.
Even if it's one of us like slide our DM, just let us know. Um, but at least acknowledging that hustle culture is a thing and that we don't have to be on that level, I think is enough. So we'll wrap it up there. Thank you for hanging out. We'll see you next week. And please don't fall in the trap of hustle culture.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Lauren Marsicano of Networking Maverick.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
Building and protecting your Queendoms!!!
Ways to completely thrive in a male-dominated field.
Conquering self-doubt in the early days of your side hustle.
Embracing your many different personal facets.
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Episode Transcript
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle GAO podcast. Today's guest is from a group we haven't talked about yet, which is the create and cultivate insiders group. If you've ever been to a create and cultivate conference, you can join, create and cultivate insiders, which is basically, um, a great small group of those of us that super love, create and cultivate and want to have deeper relationships.
There's monthly mentoring and all of that good stuff, but that's not what we're here to talk about. I am so excited to introduce Lauren Marsicano to you. Lauren hank you so much for being here, and please tell us a little bit about your journey.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:01:02] Well, thank you so much for having me here, Dannie. I'm so excited.
Create and Cultivate is an amazing organization. I love the online group, which is how we connected and and probably like you, and like many people listening. I'm just a part of so many different women's empowerment groups online. So I love the connections that we build. Which is fantastic. So my name is Laura Marsicano.
I'm an attorney. I own my own law firm, but I also have a side hustle. So the side hustle actually is a networking Maverick LLC, which is a women's empowerment group. It's online. It also now has live events in Miami and South Florida. So if you're in the area, you know, you feel free to come out to any of my monthly networking events and workshops.
But it all started because of my main business. So for, I don't know, since I was 14 years old, I wanted to be a lawyer. Right after I wasn't going to be an actress or a model, I decided to get, you know, lawyer sounds really good I love debating. And so my whole path, uh, until about two years ago was just being a lawyer.
I did, you know, the undergrad, international business and finance. I went to university of Miami school of law. I studied law at Oxford university under a fellowship and became a lawyer. So, yay. But I was not expecting to feel unfulfilled. Like I became a lawyer pass the bar exam, and about a year and a half into it, got my quote unquote dream job.
You know, the six figure lawyer working for multinational corporations, billion dollar corporations, but I still wasn't happy and I had two friends of mine that I sat down with her. They're like, Lauren, we know exactly what the problem is. You've got to start your own business. Right? And I think that happens to a lot of people when I was like, no, no, no, no.
My own business, I'm not 60 years old. You know, like that's when you start a law business. But I launched my law firm and we ended up making six figures in our first year from, and I attributed it all to networking and connections, but I love being a lawyer and I love what I can do with my lawyer hat on.
But there's so much I'm restricted from doing as Lauren Marsicano Esquire, right? That Esquire puts so many restrictions on how much I can help the business owners that come to me. Cause that's who I serve. I'm a business attorney. And so I was at these networking events and people were like, how did you make money your first year?
How you know, most law firms fail, not, you know, not only do they not make six figures, they're gone. And people go back to their original. A hustle, whatever, you know, whatever law firm they were in, and it was a lot of women. It was a lot of women at these events telling me this, and those are the people I like serving the most anyway as a lawyer.
And so I was like, you know what? I need to start another business. And it can just be online. It started just online. It's, it was YouTube videos and it was Instagram posts and it was live streams and all these different things. Just giving. Women specifically. So I always, my tagline is, no matter whether I'm with the law firm or with networking Maverick, I'm helping female entrepreneurs build and protect their queendoms.
So I call it queendoms, right? Cause we all have our queendoms. Right. Um, and so networking Maverick became my side hustle because of my main hustle. And so that's where, that's where I'm at now, helping women on both sides. Now it's offline and I do live events monthly. I partnered with a group called startup sisters USA that's, um, you know, in Tampa, Atlanta, I think they've launched a couple of other cities now.
And I'm the Miami president. And so networking Maverick partners with startup sister to bring these, uh, live events and bring women together locally, which I love. And that's my, that's my background.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:04:40] No, I've loved that so much. I can relate. I first told my grandma that I was going to be a lawyer when I was three. Caitlyn also is super into politics.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:04:53] I planned on being a lawyer too.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:04:55] Oh,
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:04:57] Neither of us went to law school, but we both, we both have a friend. Our friend Sam. Uh, went to law school, graduated with a law degrree, became an attorney. Um, but she knew after her first year of law school that entrepreneurship was the path for her.
Um, so Sam's dream one day is to start a scholarship. That's the like, Oh fuck scholarship. That would pay, like if you decide after your first, after like one owl that you don't want to be a lawyer anymore, this scholarship would like pay off your one hour loans.
That's free.
Yeah. Um, so all of, so all of those to say, I love your story. For those in the audience that are listening, I mean, this girl's a badass, top 40 under 40 lawyer in the nation, Oxford, who doesn't dream of studying abroad at Oxford, all the things, um. So I wanna I wanna dive in and I'm going to ask the obvious question first because I think it's also a good question to ask.
Law is so male dominated. How did you carve out your niche in that space? I know classic question. I want to know.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:06:13] No, but is it is, and especially so, not only am I an attorney, my, for my business, when I'm the business attorney side, I'm litigation. So litigation is even more male dominated, right? Like women come in and we're called the court reporter.
Right? So that's, that was my first experience actually for, I'm this huge, I don't wanna get too technical. It's like, it's there, like motions for summary judgment or big motions they can prevent you from going to trial. And it was my first year as an attorney and I walk in, I, I've, you know, prepared so much and the opposing counsel was probably like, I dunno.
I don't want to make them too old, but let's say he's like 70, let's say 70 year old white male. And uh, he, he called me a court reporter first and I was like, Oh no, I'm here. I'm your opposing counsel. And he like, he didn't slap my full butt, but you know when they do like that top of the butts lap where they like, Pat, you like the lower back.
But it's a little too little while. So I've got a big badonkadonk. So I mean, it's not all of his fault. He passed my lower back and it's like, well, good luck. Little lady. Like, and I crushed him and it felt good.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:21] But also that little lady, the fucking Southern like
Lauren Marsicano: [00:07:29] which actually you don't find a lot in Miami because we're very like, you know, European, Hispanic, whatever. But this guy was like an old white Southern attorney from, I think Bible belt, Florida or something. I think he drove down maybe for the hearing. I've never seen him again. I'd never seen him on another case, but I crushed them and it felt amazing.
And even at the end you was like. Oh, good. Good job. Little lady. And I was like, you can't even give me that. Like you can't, even after I crush you just give me some kind of respect and like just a handshake, like a normal hand shake. This was all before the me too movement, by the way.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:08:04] I can't, I can't with that type of, cause I've experienced that when I was working on. Um, the different political campaigns that I've worked on. So in high school I were, I ran two counties in a big campaign here. Uh, I'm not going to say which side I was on, but it was a huge, it was a huge election. Um, I couldn't even vote. Uh, I was a female and I was underage and I was still running these counties and there were old white dudes that were like, Oh, well, good job, good job, honey.
And I'm like. I just kicked ass, like my county's went the color I needed it to. Oh, I just can't. But I want to hear a little bit more about like the law firm side of things. So what specifically, you said you work with business law. Do you do, um, like business law for small businesses like Dannie or I, or do you work with the bigger. Bigger businesses and do more like the litigation.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:09:03] So I do, I do everything. So I do all of that. I now, the thing is, since I own my own law firm, I can choose my clients. So that's like the biggest difference. I only work with people and on cases that I really like, which makes. Oh, so much of a difference day to day.
Um, but yeah, no, I work with, I do the, you know, the high end corporate litigation. Like I have a couple of really big litigation cases right now for some bigger multinational companies, especially in the, in the shipping industry. And then, uh, my love though, those are, I, I love those clients. I love those cases cause they're very, very interesting, you know, from an intellectual perspective to, uh, but I love working with a small, medium size business owners.
That's like my heart because I actually get to like. Talk with you and see you. And like, we feel like we're part of each other's businesses at the end of the day where we're helping each other grow. Um, but yeah, so I do it all, and that's why actually I started. It's not really a third business. It's kind of part of my second business networking Maverick, which are the, are the eCourses.
So I provided more cost effective ways of you being able to do your contracts and learn how to form a business and register it online. Um, I did that because for small business owners spending 2 to 3000 for just registration or just a contract is not as effective. So then I put together three contracts and formation, a step by step guides for $2,000 for all four.
Like the templates, the contracts, the registration, everything. So it's more affordable. Um, but so yeah, I'm always trying to figure out ways to add more value for small business owners. Cause I think you're the most underserved or you go to, I don't want to say the names of the websites, but you go to websites that I would say I litigate on.
Yeah, I saw you. I saw you word it. I'm not, I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to know it says it, but yeah, so there are others and I feel like they do a disservice sometimes. You know, they're great for me to litigate on, but unfortunately that means you, you end up spending more money in the long run rather than just going to. An attorney up front or something.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:10:59] Yeah. One of my, one of my clients is actually a trademark attorney. And so I, yeah, I know quite a lot about, um, thou shalt not be named.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:11:09] Yes, exactly. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't know how to get to say, but yes. And that's another thing is that people see it cause you know, obviously there's the costs that come with it that I can't, I can't.
Do, I can't do anything about the cost. And then I tried to keep my fees as reasonable as possible. But if you go on an hourly perspective, I'm very affordable, but still people see it and like per, per trademark, cause I do that, I do that as well. And it's like, yeah, but that's like the minimum I could possibly do it for and still like not be losing a ton of money.
Do you know what I mean? Like I still need to get paid for my experience and what I'm doing as an attorney, but I do try to provide. It as much education. So that's why the networking Maverick, I always have to be careful because it's educational and I always have to put those disclaimers. This is not legal advice.
It's for educational purposes. Always consult an attorney, hashtag of lawyers, all that fun stuff. But yeah, and that'll, so that became my niche. Serving women became my niche in a male dominated field. So like even my big businesses, my contacts within those groups are women. It's high powered women CEOs that I've connected with.
And then they end up. You know, bringing me in as their corporate counsel. So I serve as outside corporate counsel for a lot of these businesses and I'm much more affordable than the big guys down the road, you know, and I'm also more personable and I think they like working with another female because you know, even the other firms can be a little old fashioned, old fashioned, let's say, when dealing with high powered female CEOs.
So, uh, that, that became my niche and that's what I focused on. And it just more like whenever you're in any male dominated field. I think it's just having confidence in what you can do. Always being the most prepared person in the room. Always, I'm always focused on killing them with kindness, you know?
Except for if I'm in a, in the courtroom, you know, then I'm very serious. But, you know, just in terms of networking or dealing with people, I always try to be, we call it PMA in my family. I don't know if you, can you see it? Is it on the board? Oh, yeah. It's on the board behind me. We call it positive mental attitude and PMA.
So my family is always like PMA, PMA. So that's, you just got to have the mindset to go into it. And if you're the most prepared person in the room, you're probably going to be the most confident person in the room. That doesn't mean to be arrogant, but that's, that's kind of how you do with it. And you just be yourself.
And I've learned to be the singing lawyer. So I go to events, I speak a lot public, and I, and I'll like, be like, Whoa. Like I don't, I'm not a good singer. But that's just my personality. And I've learned over time that the clients that I'll work best with, like that personality. And that's, and that's me. So,
Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:39] so what have you found after starting your business that you've learned about yourself?
Lauren Marsicano: [00:13:45] Oh so much. I think I always knew, I guess that I was resilient, but I guess I never knew how resilient I would have to be in that I actually am, because, you know, I think it's actually the hardest part of launching a business, in my opinion. Well, I mean. I guess for anybody it might be gaining the knowledge that you actually need to launch.
That might be the hardest for, for most people. Uh, but I think the second is just starting getting, getting over the fear to just start. Right. And I thought that was going to be the hardest thing, but I was wrong. I was very wrong. Because when you're a small business, you're going to have some lean months.
Right? Or you're going to have like really bad rejections or conversations, you know, and networking that don't go as well. And you start getting that self doubt that like kind of just creeps in. That's like, Hey, maybe maybe you didn't do the right thing. Maybe you didn't make the right decision. And then he's gotta be like, Nope.
Shut it down. You know, like, no, you're, you're doing good. Keep going forward. But that's definitely something that I, I knew I was resilient because I had to overcome a lot when I was younger and I moved, I moved around the country 15 times, so I was always the new girl and I was always the curvy new girl.
Right. Cause I've been, I mean, I've been a curvy queen. Since I was, uh, like nine or 10 years old, like I developed really, really young. And so I had to overcome a lot of that and get through like some depression when I was younger. So I knew I was resilient. But entrepreneurship is all, Oh, new level of resiliency.
Honestly. I think that's the most I learned.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:24] So I'm curious. Um, all three of us recording this podcast are curvy yes, yes queeen. And in social experiences you have those awkward moments where like just last night I was at a restaurant in an airport. Tables are too fucking tight. My ass is going to end up on your table. What I'm going through to get to my seat. Sorry bout it.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:15:53] All the time. All the time.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:56] And there's a lot of that that happens in the corporate world too, that we don't talk about. And I want to ask your opinion on this because especially in law, there's this expectation of suits and for women it's like high heels, skirts, tits out kind of perception. Yeah. What's it, what's it like being curvy in that space and having things that jiggle.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:16:28] Oh, more than jiggle is like an earthquake over here when I know I know it.
So I will say, because I had to deal with it so much growing up, I think that I'm much more confident now. I think that if I hadn't gone through it, like if I, if I became curvy. Like if I had been skinny my whole life and then became curvy now, I think it would be a lot harder to deal with. Then I was made fun of.
I was called chubby girl. I was called, you know, I think someone called me marshmallow cause our school uniforms were white. Like there was so much, so much stuff. And I was also a white girl in Miami. So I mean it was like so many layers of that. But then I think the best decision my mom did when I was younger was put me in modeling school like those, you know, like Barbara's on.
I was in Barbara's on. And it really gave me a lot of confidence. Cause I, before that I was the, I forget what the movie was where I think it's Christine Ricci. Maybe she like tapes her boobs down and like wears hoodies and wants to look like a guy. Cause I played all sports. I was an all sport athlete.
So I was like so, so tomboy and then. Uh, going into modeling. So I came out, I was always wearing makeup. I was always wearing my school colors and pigtails. So that made me confident as a lawyer. The thing that's different, so Miami is much more relaxed, even in the courtroom setting. Miami is more relaxed, but it's when I go to like West Palm even, or Tampa, cause I practiced in Tampa and Jacksonville and Orlando.
Those places are much, much, much more conservative. And I think it's still a rule. I have to double check. I think it's still a rule. If you go in front of the Supreme court, that you as women, you have to wear stockings in a skirt suit. I think, I don't want to swear by that, but that in law school, I remember that was the rule.
I don't know if that's changed. Um, but it's definitely finding the right looks for you. And what's funny is I just had an event on this. It was called style for success. And it was all about, no matter what size you are, cause you know skinny people actually have a really, and I know it's like, Oh my God, it's skinny people.
Eye problem. They do skinny, like really, really, I'm talking really skinny. People also have like clothing problems, but as a curvy girl, it's all like the materials you use if you actually get the right line. So the women that I think have the most problems are the ones that haven't invested in actually.
Finding a stylist or finding a style that works for them, or a clothing line. Like I love white house, black market. I love Ann Taylor. I think that they make sizes that go up to, I think they go up to like 16 or 18 online and the material is like super, super good. You know, it's got that stretch, you know, the little bit of stretch that I need, you know, like, because my waist is a little bit smaller on my bottom is like, ba boom.
It is like people pay for that and it is. This is like it when you walk into a courtroom, you know that I'm there, but it's definitely, it's a lot of self confidence because you're going up against guys that do not get judged by how they look. But when you're in front of a jury, we actually have to take a course or I voluntarily took a course on jury selection and you get to hear what they think and a lot of what they think about women is what they look like.
Whether they're a witness or, or a, um, a lawyer. And I just got married actually, uh, this past week. And before that though, if I had, if I was in front of a jury, I'd wear a wedding ring because females that didn't wear wedding rings weren't trustworthy. Right? So like, if you're a female, you had, there are certain things you have to do for your client to make sure you're presenting yourself the best to the jury.
And the judge. So you got to know your judge, you've got to know people, and it is a little nerve wracking because I, I, there is still that psychological bias against curvy women where people think we're, we're like, I forget what the wording is, but basically that we're like, slobs. That we just don't care and we're sloppy where.
And so number one, I am a mess at home. I'm not going to lie. I'm very messy because I'm so organized and so many other asks but I'm not a slob. Like I'm not dirty. But though those that does go through the back of my head where I'm like, I need to dress to make sure that the cuts look. Uh, tailored that even though I'm curvy, I look very put together that, uh, you know, I, I thought about my appearance, like I put my hair in a bun or I put it back low and a bun.
Like I don't like, I have long hair cause I paid for it. Uh, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't leave it down like that. I went Ariana Grande a in a courtroom. Do you know what I mean? So there's just things that you got to know how to present yourself. And I like to say, um. When I do a lot of speaking and with my clients, women are like diamonds where we have many facets, right?
Because a lot of what I get from business clients when they're networking is, Oh, but I don't want to dress like that cause that's not me. Or when I go to this, I don't want to dress like that. Cause that's not me. Okay. But is it, is it maybe this part of you. Maybe this is how you need to present yourself in this way.
Like when I go to court, I'm going to have my hair in a bun. I'm going to be wearing my glasses. I'm going to be wearing a more conservative color and a more conservative suit, maybe even a skirt suit with stockings if that's what it needs, like conservative heels. When I go to my speaking engagement. I have a gold glitter jacket with wings that says networking Maverick, like I'm just a completely different look, but all of them are still me.
They're just different facets of the diamond and you have to know when to let each facet shine in different situations.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:21:43] I think what's sad though in this situation is that we literally have to think about who our crowd is to dress too. And that's not something most dudes even think about or comprehend.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:21:57] Not even a little bit. Not even. And actually, actually they are psychologically, uh, Oh my God, I forgot what this study was that they did on a jury. But, um, you remember to kill a Mockingbird or any on any of that kind of stuff where he was more personable because his shirt was a little uncapped and his suit wasn't super tailored.
Right. But the, and so that's, those are perceptions, guys don't even, they get. Rewarded for not necessarily taking so much time for their appearance. Cause then if they take too much time, there are car salesman and they're sleazy maybe or something, but so they don't have to worry about it all. They just show up as them and they probably wear the same suit every single day.
Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. But it is just stuff that we think, I think as women, we already think about. A billion things a day anyway, more than men in a lot of cases. So, uh, until the day comes where we're all just wearing potato sacks and that's it.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:22:54] I think this is so spot on though. I feel this all the time when I'm thinking through what I'm wearing to different client meetings or how I dress at work.
I mean, I have the good fortune of working at Google, which means I wear a lot of leggings to work. Like, how does that read? How does that come across? Even even in situations where it shouldn't matter when there are guys that literally would just wear their bathrobe.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:23:20] Nooooo.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:23:22] Even my leggings can come across as like unkempt, even though the bathrobe is. Quirky
Caitlyn Allen: [00:23:33] the opposite side where like I'm in, I don't, I don't know if you guys can see, they're like dress pants.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:23:43] Yeah.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:23:43] But people are like, well, why are you so dressed up? I'm like,
Lauren Marsicano: [00:23:47] yes. You can't win. Sometimes you just can't win sometimes. No, for sure.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:23:50] If I, yeah, if I wore leggings, I would be a slob. If I wore jeans, I'm not dressed to the occasion and now if I wear this, I'm too dressed up. So when will I ever win?
Lauren Marsicano: [00:24:01] Well, so you're, you're never going to be able to be everything to everyone all the time. Right? Like that's the biggest thing I learned. You just gotta be you in what you think you should present in that situation. And then everyone can think what they think and you're going to have haters always. And you're gonna have people that love you always.
And, and that's what you've got to focus on just being you. Because if you're trying to be someone else, then you're going to feel worse when people don't like you or whatever, you know, whatever happens. But if you're just being you and confident, like I think you look great. That color is amazing on you that I, I guess it's like a purple-y violet maroon is what it looks like from here.
It looks great on your skin tone. And I think, I personally think everyone needs a stylist. I have a stylist now and a branding specialist. For my business and everything that really helps with like my color. I'm not wearing it now because this wasn't, I'm not wearing my colors anything now. But, um, I think that that really helps.
And I've always decided that I'm always going to be. The most extra in any room really, except for maybe the courtroom. So I always show up as too much and that's kind of my thing. Like, Oh my God, Lauren. So extra. Yes, I am queen cause we're Queens. Do Queens just like sit in the corner? No, we stand out.
This is our queendom. Everyone come into our queendom. You got a queen. I'm great. We can all rise up. So I've just, you're never going to satisfy all the haters. So just be yourself and be extra.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:25:23] I think you freaking nailed it. I think this is so good. So before we wrap up, I want to ask, you've talked a lot about things that we can do to take up and hold the space that we're meant to take. And a lot of that has been an appearance focused. Is there any way in what you learned through presence and in the courtroom that we can also do that with our voices?
Lauren Marsicano: [00:25:45] Definitely, definitely. So I actually think, uh, I always, I think my three pillars of networking Maverick are really like mindset, motivation, education, right? If you don't have the right mindset, you're not going to come across in any way, whether it's appearance, voice, anything. Uh, but then if you are the most prepared person in the room, I think preparation mindset.
We'll give you so much confidence going in, and if you carry yourself with confidence, you project yourself with confidence. I think that comes across. I think when you talk with people, it's very important. Something I had to learn was to talk slower. A little bit. Cause sometimes when you talk too fast it can come across as like, Oh well she's a lot, she's too much and I'm already loud.
So I had to pick one or the other. So I chose to really try to slow down and think about what I'm saying and what the other person is saying. I think that makes a very, very big difference. Being a listener, being someone that takes the time to really. Look at the person who you're talking to, whether it's an event or in the courtroom.
I didn't get matters. I think the best thing I did was do improv. I don't know if you guys have ever taken an improv class, but if you have a local, like we have one down the street. My friend is doing it because she's going to be an MC at an upcoming event, and I was like, yes, improv. The best thing, the best decision you can make because it's going to give you, sorry.
The confidence. To change on the fly, to deal with anything that comes up in conversation. Anything that could come up in court with opposing counsel. It gets you to think on your feet and so you're already so prepared that you should be able to throw in anything you need. The improv gives you the confidence to be able to pivot in all those directions.
So I think that that is something practicing in the mirror, I think helps too. If you can afford an improv class, I think just practicing with a mirror or practicing, like my husband and I practice interview sometimes, or we'll practice, like if I'm going to speak in an event, I'll be like, how does this come across?
How does this joke come across? Because I don't want it, you know, the translation from my mouth to your ears might not come across as I want it. So practicing in the mirror, practicing with people, improv, all those are ways to work on your . I would, I would call it all your presentation, your presentation of yourself, whether it's how you dress or how you speak.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:28:00] So I have one, one last question about speaking. How do you, and how do you suggest if woman is A woman is speaking and a man starts to speak over her, How do you take charge of that situation Or do you have any suggestions for taking charge of a situation like that?
Lauren Marsicano: [00:28:18] Ooh that's a good one So my typical lawyer answer it depends It always depends Uh so I would say how I would address that at like a networking event is very different than how I would address it in like a mediation or in court Because in court there's actually a rule where they're not supposed to talk over you Um so what I would do is if they start talking what I have learned to do is pause I let them finish and then I don't address them I just said judge and I say your honor it is my time to be speaking We will listen to opposing counsel when it's their turn Can you please make sure that they abide by the decorum of the courtroom And that usually gets them to Right Because then they feel like an idiot Like I let them finish You finish you want Oh you okay You think you yo go Now I'm going to make you look like an idiot Thank you Like you're not abiding by the rules How I would do it in the mediation So it's all about in my opinion you don't want to come up like a BITC H sometimes right You don't want to come off like Oh man she's so pressive Sometimes I do want to come off like that and if I do want to come off like that what I will do is I will again let them finish and then I will say sir I have let you say your piece now I would let you Say my piece and we will get out of your love and I do it in front of the clients by the way and we will get outta here a lot quicker and we will cost our clients a lot less money if we give each other the respect we deserve
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:29:38] Oh
Lauren Marsicano: [00:29:40] Oh right So those are those are like my lawyer ways At a networking event it's so much different right Because you just you're in a group maybe you don't even know that person So they interrupt me I just honestly I let them interrupt me I just let them in a Rob me and then I'm such a I'm already such a presence in my opinion that it's not gonna prevent me from still moving forward And people say Lauren why did you go back to the point you were saying I'm like well because I was speaking and this person interrupted me and what I'll say Oh my God you know I don't know Gary Let's just say Gary Oh my God Gary that's so funny Cause I was just about to say blah blah blah blah blah Or you know if it relates back to what I was saying or or you know I'll let him finish we'll have a discussion and then I'll be like Oh my God still I totally forgot what I was saying was blah blah blah blah blah So like I'll just bring it back If it's a point I really really want to make there are some times where it's just like it's not worth worth it I think it actually makes them look worse when they interrupt us more If you just stay pleasant and nice it's like wow Lauren Lauren's a cool person You she doesn't cause a scene She you know She always wants to get along with people which I do like I genuinely do just want to connect and bond That person probably isn't going to like me very much anyway Uh so I mean I'm not going to try to be rude to them Now there are times when the interruption is purposeful right And there have been very few very very tight to situations where I know the person was coming at me where they purposely were just trying to cut me out And then I have probably not reacted the best because you know that that gets me where like if they've interrupted me a couple of times and they're like they start edging you out of the circle you know That thing and and what I will just say I'll I'll look kind of at the group and I'll look at if I if I know anyone I kind of make eye contact and usually men will be the one that say Hey Lauren what was it you were saying again Or like they'll bring you back in and and that's kind of what I do Or if not I'll be like excuse me I'll make Oh I'm sorry Uh I'm still here Like sometimes be like Oh oops I think you got I think you're on my shoe Oh Oh no no no You're fine You're good Oh good Excellent Like there's little things like that but I just think it's better not to cause huge confrontation at networking events That's just me That's how I that's how I handle it But I think just being comfortable in yourself being a presence being confident I think that comes across better And people actually come back to me There'll be like Laura and what was it you were saying Maybe just just you and confident I would say so Yeah They're different
Caitlyn Allen: [00:32:14] Yeah No those were such like so great to hear like how you have I don't know how you approach the situation because I don't know I feel like sometimes it's such a hard situation to address that it just feels like Oh I just want to like shrink up Um
Lauren Marsicano: [00:32:33] can't do that Don't do that Right Don't do don't shrink because you're still amazing and people still like you're still valid and you're still valuable Just because someone is being like that and they might not even be doing it on purpose That is just who they are And so you just got to accept people for who they are and know Hey I'm a queen I got this I'm here And like at these people Want to still talk to me We're going to get back to what I was saying or we're still going to keep talking It's not it's not a huge deal Don't shrink though because you're a queen right You rule you got that crown Keep that crown high and think about
Caitlyn Allen: [00:33:06] Well I think that our effort our crowd is going to love this episode Thank you so much Lauren And as we wrap up we want to know where can we find you on social and the interwebs.
Lauren Marsicano: [00:33:20] I would love to connect with everyone on here. You can find me on Instagram at networking, Maverick dot dot com at networking Maverick. You can go to my website, which is www.networkingmaverick.com and I have a bunch of freebies on there for you. Whether you want to learn how to turn your network into net worth with my top five tips, I've got that free beyond there.
It's called the networking Maverick pocket guides, so you can take it with you. And then I have an Instagram growth guide on there as well, which are my tools and tips for growing your following and your presence and your branding. And then my last one and newest one is the seven steps to start success, the queen preneurs checklist.
So that's going to be on there too. It's all on networking maverick.com.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Megan Lentz of Vida Events.
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
Working in a partnership for your side-hustles and its unique advantages.
Tips to help excel in a business partnership.
Remembering to focus on making the client feel at ease while still having the structures in place to accomplish the goal.
The power of having a mentor and all the lessons that they can teach.
GET MORE: Website | Instagram
FOLLOW YOUR HOSTS: D Website | D Instagram // C Website | C Instagram
Episode Transcript
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. Today we have Megan Lentz. We stalked each other and connected in the summit Facebook group, which if you're not in that group, super great place to find connections and just get business resources. And so we're so excited to have you here and I'm going to toss it over to you and to explain what you do, why you identify as a side hustler, and all those things.
Megan Lentz: [00:00:47] Yay. Hi guys. We're super excited to be here. Um, my business partner actually could not be with us today cause she is at her full time. Job hashtag side hustle. Um, so we are Megan and Maria. We own Vida events together. Um, me started out in the wedding world. Doing catering and floral work years ago, and then got into wedding planning, um, about three years ago.
So we have been in all the kind of nooks and crannies of the wedding world and sound during each, and it's just kind of taken off. So, yeah, we're super excited to be here.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:01:19] I love it. So talk to me about your journey. How did this business get started? Um, how does side hustling come into play, especially in an events business, which has. So many moving pieces. What is that like?
Megan Lentz: [00:01:34] Yeah, so Maria is a full time teacher's assistant, so Vida is a side hustle for her in that way. And then I actually do, um, equine nutrition for a company. So yeah, our jobs are kind of very different, but the side hustle is kind of taken off and allowed us to be creative.
Um. We originally got into catering and we're doing a lot of event design and really just found that like we were doing most of the work is caterers for the company we were working for at the time. And both had the idea to like we were individually starting on businesses. And then when we realized that we were both going to start something, I was like, well, why don't we just do it together and cover twice as much territory?
So that's what we did. And it's been working ever since. And we love it.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:02:21] I love that. So for both of you, this is your second stream of income or work or whatever. The way that manifests is a little bit different for both of you. What I'm curious about is how you make a business partnership work when both of you are side hustlers.
So Katelyn and I are lucky enough that Caitlyn's full time and I work at a job where. I can do things like this right now. Um, but when you are two side hustlers running a second business together, things get crazy. How do you manage all of that?
Megan Lentz: [00:02:54] Yeah, so I think our job hours are different. So I do have a job where I can do this for 40 minutes here during the middle of the day, and then go back to work.
Um, my company has been really good about. Letting me venture off into my dream job, um, and accepting of it. So it's been really nice to be able to do these kinds of things during the day. Um, I do most of my work, like in the evenings, afternoons, um, she has some mornings off, so we're kind of like tag teaming throughout the day with things. Um, and it's always nice cause there's lunch breaks, so we're like catching up on emails, um, as we're like scrubbing down, you know, our six outlet. So.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:33] That's awesome. So I guess as somebody who is, you know, still side hustling, how do you structure your day and what are the ways that you stay organized in your business?
Megan Lentz: [00:03:45] So, first off, I guess there's no structure to my day. Like every day is completely different, and I almost prefer it that way because it's changing and I'm not bored. Um, I, my 2020 goal for this year was like, to be. More structured with my staff so that I wasn't, you know, doing 10 different things in the hour with like two different jobs.
Um, but as a side hustler, you guys know that it's really hard to do that. So I think we really, we have tons of Excel spreadsheets that both of us have access to, which literally saves our lives every day. Um, and we share a joint email, which has helped a ton, so that way if she's out, like I can come in and answer and saying like, vice versa.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:04:26] I love that approach because I think it makes things a little bit easier to manage. I feel you in the no two days are the same thing. I view like if my boyfriend ever tried to like outline what I do every single day, he'd be so lost because he's like, what are you even doing. Well,
Megan Lentz: [00:04:45] my husband is always like, he goes, what are you working on?
He's like, are you working on Vida stuff?. And I was like, no, I'm working on like nutrition stuff. Like I'm building a nutrition plan. And then 20 minutes later I'm back on like Vida stuff. So like it just, it's, you know, it's a chaotic balance that I like to call life. So, yeah.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:05:04] So I guess I want to hear a little bit more about. Um, how you guys work together. I know that you said that, um, you guys share an inbox, different things like that, but most people we've talked to have been solopreneur or people who, you know, just work for themselves and not a duo. So how do you guys manage working together? Like, I can't imagine working with somebody else all the time.
Megan Lentz: [00:05:30] This is the first question. Literally anywhere. If we go to mixers, if we go just out to dinner with friends or like, how do you use, do this and balance each other's different personalities. Um, I think one good thing about Maria and myself is that we're not type a people. Um, we do have opinions and, you know, we have different design ideas, which I think really helps.
Excel or business together, especially in the wedding world. Um, but we are very good about, you know, if one person feels stronger about a situation, we go with what they're thinking, if I don't feel too strongly about it, um, and vice versa. So it really is a good balance. I mean, we all have. We are really good about not arguing with each other.
Um, we're good about listening to what the other person has to say before. We're like, well, I'm not really sure that that's the best idea. And then we kind of sit on that and kind of, you know. I always trying to think of what she is thinking like longterm. And she is a lot more organized than I am. I'm a little more like, go, go, go, let's do all the things.
And she's like, okay, Megan, let's pull back a little bit. Like not kill ourselves where we're trying to like build this. So, um, it's a really good balance and I really enjoy working with her. So we've, it doesn't come without, you know, challenges, but it's worth it to have somebody to pick up the Slack when you're not around.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:06:48] So you said that neither one of you are type a. um, I find that super interesting because I am also in a partnership with, um, somebody and we do, we organize art happenings or like street art, um, graffiti weekends a nd she is like the like artists out there who is doing her own thing, not really organized.
And then there's me who's like. Super type a, like we have to have a schedule, we have to like know all of the things in advance. Like you have to know everything, but we balance each other out. Do you feel like one of you guys stays like on track? Um, and like rains the other one in more often?
Megan Lentz: [00:07:30] So it's funny, like our personalities are so different, but Maria definitely reigns me in, but I definitely have more of the organization of things like the constant to do list of things we need to do. Um, but yeah, we're, I'm an extroverted introvert, so my personality can be, I guess, different ways at different times, just depending on the situations, which is nice. And I think Marina is the same way, where when we're in social settings, we're very outgoing, very chatty.
Um, but when we're like down in the office trying to get things done, you know, we are very organized. Um, . Our biggest compliment that we get from our brides is that this planning process was so laid back. Um, that's one of our favorite compliments and the favorite things we see in our reviews. Um, just having, you know, we want our brides and our, a couple of, like all of our couples and our, their family members to feel relaxed.
So us coming off was type in, like have to have all the things done really just never goes over well.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:08:29] Do you feel like side hustling. An event business, especially when you have to meet with a client has ever really interfered. Mmm. Or do you think that it works better for you because it balances. Regular work with something that's different and more creative?
Megan Lentz: [00:08:47] Yeah, I think it's the balance really. Um, again, my schedule is nice because I can build around it at different times. Um, and most of our, you know, couples meet, want to meet in the afternoon or evenings because they're also working full time jobs. So we don't run into. A lot of having to do things during the day. Um, and a lot of our vendor friends also are like side hustlers, so they're too having to meet on like Saturdays or late in the evening, or going to the couple of towns to meet. So it's worked out really well.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:09:16] So I'm curious as well, because the event planning business requires a certain level of. Like Polish and beauty and like there's an expectation that things are always pretty. Um, it sounds like you both have a really good opportunity to share about how and why and where and when things get messy or complicated. Have you shared about that and how has that impacted your business as compared to like the industry.
Megan Lentz: [00:09:45] So are you talking about like certain events or,
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:09:50] Oh, like social media.
Megan Lentz: [00:09:52] Oh like social media, so we actually split up our social media times, um, Maria Monday through Thursday, and I do the weekends so that we're not constantly having to be on there and comment and like, and share and do all the things.
Um. So it really is beneficial having a business partner to pick up the other half and giving yourself a little bit of a break, especially like trying to think of vacation in the off season. Um, and, you know, not getting behind on things. Um, but it, it really, you know, we always, there are sticky situations in every business.
Um, but we, I think we really handle them. With grace and staying calm about things really helps because when you get overwhelmed, which happens like on the daily, anyone who is a female entrepreneur knows how this shit rolls. Um, you are constantly overwhelmed about all the things on your to do list. So I think, I know Maria definitely brings me back down to earth. It's like, all right, so we just need to get these couple of things done today and then we'll move on to the next thing. So.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:10:55] Well, I'm curious, I you. You definitely seem like you both have it all together, which is amazing. And I'm jealous, um, because I don't do a good job of giving off that vibe. Um, but that doesn't come without mistakes.
What are some mistakes that you've made in business. Um, that maybe you, maybe you don't even rip at them because you learned from them, but what are some mistakes in business that you've made and how have they impacted your business?
Megan Lentz: [00:11:26] I think, I know our biggest mistake our first year was over committing, and we definitely don't have. All of our stuff together. Um, as entrepreneurs, we like to make it look like we do, but everyone knows that there's chaos going on in the background, but that's what we want our clients to see is that, you know, we have our shit together. We're just rolling through. But yeah, I think our biggest, I don't regret any of it.
Um, we had an amazing first year, but I think we over committed with weddings that we were doing, and it got. We were at the point where we were overwhelmed and burnout and in your first year or second year of business like you did is something you want to avoid completely. Um, so I know that I have been, one thing that I've just personally gone into is mentoring with another planner.
Um, who's a season planner, and she has really guided me into the direction of, you know, how you do your commitments, how much time you put towards it each week. Um, things like that.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:12:26] How do you feel like, um, since you've started your business, how do you feel that you've changed, or what have you learned about yourself in this entrepreneurial journey?
Megan Lentz: [00:12:36] Um, I think we both learned that we're like some badass bitches doing this thing. I mean like, dang, we get super pumped just to see how far we've come in like three years. And it. It's amazing the, you know, I guess initial growth of just like myself of being so nervous to come into an industry where I had experienced but not, I was not a 10 years seasoned, you know, wedding planner.
Um, you know, we make a lot of mistakes. We like to come around and track so clients don't see those mistakes, but, you know, we grow from each of those. And I, you know, in our third, going into our third year, like. It's been awesome. Um, I know Marie and myself have really just sent me, take more time to sit back and look at how far we've come.
This, even just in January for 2020, I'm just like, liberally, we're really, three years ago, like we had no idea what we were doing. Um, we loved weddings. We had done, you know, your friend's weddings and like the under the table kind of helping people. So, you know, for a few hundred bucks kind of weddings.
But now that we're into it, and. We're starting to get, you know, higher end clientele. It's really exciting for us.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:13:46] Yeah. I feel like something that we forget to do is like reflect on what happened last year, what happened the year before, like how have we changed and how have we, like how are we continuing to grow? I think we totally forget to do that. Um. And I think that goes into goal setting. So do you guys, do you guys end up sitting down and goal setting for each year or what is, what does that look like for you guys?
Megan Lentz: [00:14:14] Yeah. We, um, we did this year, we actually went to a, um, gosh, what do they call it? Inspiration board parties where you like cut out magazine pictures and you put things that you want to improve on for that year. Things that you want to get more into that year. And I know that we both had, um, just being more present.
In our, um, personal lives. Um, because you know, when you have a business, as you both know, like your work takes, you know, I'm sure all of our husbands and boyfriends and girlfriends, I'll understand that, like, you know, second to our business babies. So, um, it's always nice to, I know we both like decided that we needed to be more present in our personal lives versus, you know, we can still do everything we want to business wise, but make more of a structured schedule for that.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:15:02] And do you guys both have significant others then? And like, because you guys are all always together together frequently? Do they hang out too?
Megan Lentz: [00:15:12] Um, so we, it's almost fortunate and unfortunate. So both of our husbands are gone quite a bit at the time, so their jobs, um, so Julie just Marie and I hanging out, getting all the things done. Um, but when they're home, it's definitely like an O'Connor's like, okay. We need to like put the laptop down and we need to move on and we need to like, just hang out and relax. And they, he's very good about bringing me, you know, back into like reality. So, and I think Jared doesn't seem for Maria.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:15:41] Awesome.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:15:42] Caitlyn. Um, so speaking of relationships, uh, something that I have as a goal this year is better understanding what that balance looks like and being more intentional about being more intentional about setting that time. So with you guys being event folks, and like me working a lot of weekends when most traditional jobs are off.
How are you building in that time? I know you said both of your partners are traveling a lot, but they have to be home at some point.
Megan Lentz: [00:16:18] Yes. I know that we, I can't speak from Maria, but I know that. Like her husband's schedule is going to change for this year, so I know he'll be off in the afternoons, which would be nice that they can spend that time versus just trying to cram everything in some personal time and on the weekends.
Now I'm with my husband, I, well now, like the last few weeks I've been looking ahead. To schedule. This is awful. Scheduled time with, so then it's like blocked out and like, I, my phone's on doing that. Mr urban, you know, we have time to hang out on the farm with the dogs and stuff like that. So.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:16:52] No. You have to make time for that stuff. I mean, I work first shift, plus a side hustle, plus a college degree. My boyfriend works second shift plus some overtime. So in theory, we should never see each other. But like this morning we woke up an hour early to have some time together before I went. So like,
yeah. Yeah. Um, so we do have to wrap things up. I can talk to you for literally forever, but before, before we start to wrap things up, what is a piece of advice that you would give to a newer business owner who's trying to dive into the world of events?
Megan Lentz: [00:17:39] I would probably say it's not as overwhelming as it looks starting off. Take your time. um starting a business is overnight doesn't happen, but take your time to get your website, build up, get a good content, build up. Um, do style shoots. That is a big thing. I wish. Um, newer businesses would start doing, instead of just taking on events, um, do some smaller weddings and do some style shoots, get to know vendors, um, shadow people, get a mentor in the wedding world.
And there's so many things to educate yourself online now. Um, things that like were not there back in the day when we first started. So it really, the internet platform for education is amazing. Um, and there's so many ways to learn.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:18:27] Oh, I love it.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:18:31] Awesome. All right, so where can we find you guys on the interwebs?
Megan Lentz: [00:18:36] You guys can find us at our website at www.vidaevents.net and then our Instagram handle is at vida underscore events.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:18:45] Amazing. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We had a great time and this was a really great episode.
Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Natalie Arribeno of Nubia Natalie.. .
We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:The importance of managing your cash flow and knowing where the money is going.
Realizing what self-care means to you!
The power of carving out time to just take care of emails and planning the week ahead.
GET MORE: Website | Instagram
FOLLOW YOUR HOSTS: D Website | D Instagram // C Website | C Instagram
Episode Transcript
Caitlyn Allen: [00:00:21] Hi guys, and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. We are so excited. Um, we are joined today by Natalie Arrabenue Benbenno. Oh man, I messed it up already. Let me just preface by saying it's actually a Spanish word and Caitlyn can pronounce it. So I'm a let Natalie introduce her last name. Tell us more about why she, um, identifies as a side hustler.
Natalie Arribeno: [00:00:50] Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you. It's all good. It's, it's not. I'm very common Mexican. Last name. So my name is Natalie Aribeno and I identify myself as a side hustler. It really, because I have. Three full time jobs, I guess you can say that. And then my own business.
And um, I do that outside of my full time job. And ideally I would love my side hustle to be my main hustle. Right. and a little bit of background, I'm the founder and designer for my active wear line, which is Nubia and Natalie, which Nubia is actually my first name, but all my friends call me Natalie.
Um, so yeah, that's how I identify myself as a side hustle. I really, it's just balancing active multiple things that I do.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:01:41] So talk to us about those three full time things cause that sounds insane.
Natalie Arribeno: [00:01:50] Yeah, no. So, um, I'm a merchandise planner. And a fashion company. I also consult a startups that want to build their own fashion brands. I've always been in the consumer direct to consumer, um, business side of things. Um, and I have a lot of knowledge. I, that's where my background is from. And then, um, I also teach, so I'm a college professor a part time, and I teach fashion fibers and materials, which helps me with my own business.
Um, and I do my business. After working hours. So I have an agenda. I, I'm very strict with my schedule and I do less is more. So I know it sounds like a lot, but I think it's doable. I mean, I, I always asking myself if I didn't do. My side hustle, would I regret it? And 1000% I don't think I was built to just do a nine to five because there's always that itch, you know that calling in your heart. So, um, and I'm young. I was like, if I'm going to do this, then I got to do it now. So.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:03:03] Yeah. I think both Caitlin and I resonate with that. That argument of now's the time. Like we have less obligations holding us back, less things that are barriers or would be detrimental to us trying to pursue this.
So it totally makes sense. You said that you have an agenda. Caitlyn's a planner freak. I'm a Google calendar freak. Um, so talk to us about what you're planning in your time management looks like. Like, are you a black scheduler? Are you a squeeze it in where you can person? Like how do you manage your time?
Natalie Arribeno: [00:03:35] So, um, first of all, I'm a paper and pen type of person. I love writing it and then putting it in my calendar, um, my digital, whether it be my Google or I-Cal um my rule my rule is every Sunday I just block out an hour Late at night six seven whatever and I just looked through my schedule Um I try to wake up as early as I can Um so I I my and I'm going to give tangible um Recommendations because I hate when people are like Oh just use an agenda It's like well what does that really mean So I wake up at six um I do a lot of journaling and meditation so I don't really get to my phone or my emails until eight So my me time is really important in the morning And then from eight to five is just whether I'm at the office or whether I'm teaching or whether I'm my On the road So I blocked that out and then I get home and then I work from eight to 11 on my business Mmm And then I squeeze in I try to do 45 minutes of something physical even if it's walking outside um throughout the day Um so that's what I really try to do I try to be as consistent as possible I would love to wake up earlier than six but it's a challenge. So that's really what I do pen and paper helps And then a lot of post-its.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:05:08] So the real question here is do you have like a significant other or anything like that that gets into your time way? Because girl I can't even imagine.
Natalie Arribeno: [00:05:20] Uh no I do not And I am working really really hard to you have a dog Because I used to have a dog and I really would like a dog And Because of my schedule I think it would be so selfish to get a dog at this moment So ideally I would just like to do my side hustle And then one of the jobs. I self fund my company So that's where the need of um income is for me And I think that's very important for any side hustle gals out there to really understand that just because you have this great ideas keep your job because that helps your sanity because bills will still come Yes it's a juggling act of three jobs but financially I need it And then also it's questions for you to ask yourself do you want to be self-funded or do you want to get funding from outsiders That opens a different kind of warms. So for me right now this works for me So being self aware I think it's important when you start your side hustle as far as financials go cause you'll be surprised the money goes real quick.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:06:32] That's that's so interesting that I mean man I think about your day and I'm like Ooh if I was that productive I don't even know But that's so true about the finance I think that we There's a lot of people who promote the Oh well you need to quit your day job and like bring your side hustle to like full fruition but are you actually funded enough to make that happen. That's a that's a great question to ask yourself before you decide to make that transition. So what do you think is going to make you make that transition or do you know when you hit a certain goal what it's going to look like?
Natalie Arribeno: [00:07:14] I think right now and I'm actually just work on my 2020 goals And for me it would be being able um Nubia Natalie to be able to um delivers sales that will cover like at least my teaching job You know um if it can deliver those types of sales then I will walk away from one of the jobs And because it's also like no one's going to love the business more than myself. So if I'm able to accomplish all this and juggle all this what will the return of investments of my time will be in investing even more time on Nubia Natalie. So it's a two part Um That I continued to battle myself Um because I'm so new in the business and I'm still pivoting and learning I'm okay for it But um I have set a goal for myself from a year from now 2021 Um business ain't going to be sustainable if I really want to grow the business.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:08:14] I love setting those milestones well in advance and understanding kind of the ramp and what it's going to take to get to those milestones Cause I think we there's nothing more frustrating than identifying that you want to do something but not giving it a deadline because without the deadline you aren't forced To do the work to figure it out So it's it's really cool to hear that you're like okay a year from now at least the teaching job will be gone Like I'm going to have more time and more focus that I can give to Nubia Natalie So I think that's really smart. You also just said that you've finished your 2020 goals Do you have a favorite goal setting tool like power sheets or the Natalie meal program or anything like that And then Ooh talk to us about it Talk to us about it.
Natalie Arribeno: [00:09:05] I love setting goals and then I'm not the type of person I think like January like the time to set goals I set goals my year cause I do a vision board at the end of set uh end of September October's I did my 2020 goals back in 2019 October So I do a vision board So I do one whatever It gives me the calling of putting it on the vision board Then I just smart goals which I think a lot of people know Um they're very specific They're measurable um achievable Um if you look at the acronym on Google it's very smart So I hand write them and I put them in my in the beginning of my agenda I I actually only did four goals cause I want to um Accomplish three of them by September and December of this year. So um I did the smart goal uh process Like for example my goal was to sell through my inventory 95% of it right. So I broke it down even further by saying like if it's 400 units by September or there's a day a week Know like I made it so specific that it's digestible for me to tell it to somebody else Um I think very sexy goals I think as long as they're uh therefore you and I don't even call them goals. I call them my North star because like okay what what are my marching orders What's my North star that helps me with my Focus.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:10:43] Okay So you have talked about your planner that you use twice now So give us the scoop. Which planner do you you use in your business?
Natalie Arribeno: [00:10:54] Okay so I use this planner that I just started using And it's in Spanish and it's by this woman Um her name is Mia Astra I can send you the link. I am very spiritual so it has a lot of beautiful quotes and it has like astra, astrology in there Um and it's broken out by hour and um for each day which helps me cause each day it's a little bit different based on like My three jobs so I use that and then um she has really amazing like notes or that's where I have all my goals So I I I it helps for me Every time I open it it's there It's on my it's in my face.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:11:43] It sounds like probably a more beautiful version of Danielle LaPorte's desire map planner Maybe Yeah it sounds very cool Yeah so you have all of these systems that you're using in your in your business. You sound very process oriented like Caitlyn I'm curious how you get your like analog your paper planning and your digital planning and goal setting to work together? I'm a pen and paper note taker but a digital planner in terms of my time and sometimes I struggle To keep those two in sync at all times.
Natalie Arribeno: [00:12:21] I know it is a struggle and I've I know what you're saying cause sometimes I'm like okay I just wrote everything on my calendar Now I'm going to go to my uh I Cal and do it all over again is just a lot of work honestly because I've I sent myself but like every Sunday Right That's what I do Um and I don't only just do it for my business I do it for my friends and family Like that's the day where I I blocked out time just to organize myself for the next two weeks And then from there um when I do that I'm also reading all my emails and replying on all my emails so that I am jotting down like okay this I need to follow up on this person I do this and that I gotta pay bills. So it's like the Sunday routine is what has really helped to take control on my emails my calendar my to do and I broke it And I have like notes where I have like Nubia Natalie. I have like my personal where all my bills getting my nails done Do you know those are things that I have to plan out I can't just randomly. Stop by and get my nails done because I already kind of schedule myself it's hard because there's not a lot of flexibility at times but for me it helps to know what to do I need to get done And obviously I also I'm a believer of balance so I need to put in some self care within my schedule whether it's me going to a book club for this weekend and next weekend I hang out with friends with brunch And you know it's just kinda like that And like I say every dollar has a home Every minute has a home for me So that's that's key.
Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:14:09] I think that's so smart I also like you glossed over this as if it was normal and it should be normal But I want to talk about this You talked about self care as going to a book club or going to brunch and it wasn't what we traditionally hear of self care which is like massages or getting your nails done or um so, What is what does self care mean to you? I love that it's not that traditional stuff that can be really expensive
Natalie Arribeno: [00:14:39] Yes It's yes Uh thank you for bringing that up Yes Because again I'm working a lot because of the financial needs for my business But at the same time the more successful you are the more self care you need that I know that Um one you need to recognize What is that for you. I've gone through a lot and I've learned that for me self care means I have to meditate in the morning I have to do a couple of like a meditation and I mean like five minute Headspace Uh meditation Uh I need to be with people So then I need to be with my friends too for brunch Um I like to learn So then and I like to learn from other people So then book club for me is important So I um I've also like to go to the museum by myself too. Like I get inspiration like that So for me self care is also like I have to watch my money right Like I can't be spending and getting my hair done and getting my now like that's great But as an entrepreneur like if you don't learn how to manage your cashflow now when you're getting started once you become big that that's going to be like a major thing for you as it of what you like and what self care is for you Um then that's going to be that tremendous I've been grown to the speed that I thought I was going to go because I am pivoting and learning what's the right thing for myself because at then the business is that successful As well as I am Like if I'm in a good place then my business will reflect that.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:16:32] Okay guys I need you to pause rewind for like three minutes and listen to that one more time because that is literally gold Like if you don't manage your cashflow you don't know where money is going then You can't do self care at the end of the day because you might not have money leftover. So being super cognizant of that and knowing the self care is important because if you're anything like me you don't do self care and then you get burnt out and then life is just rough. So figuring out as a as a side hustler when you're running your business that cashflow and what makes you happy And what Self care looks like for you is so so so so so important Um Natalie that was just that was such gold Um so I guess the last thing I wanted to ask was what are some of the um systems that you use for your business like online or I mean I guess you already talked about your planner but like online
Natalie Arribeno: [00:17:38] Yeah I use asana a lot. Um that really helps And I do The board the lists gets me very um complicated Um it gets me very overwhelmed Like I like to see things Um on the board I use a lot of Post-its I used to have it in my kitchen I had like a big paper and then just bunch of posts colored uh I liked that Um and I write a lot of emails to myself I know that sounds weird. A lot of people like have notes I have notes too but creativity comes with you at any point in time So I always email myself. So that's why the Sunday day works out so well for me because on Sundays all of the emails I wrote to myself have a home and that's when I put them in my Asana or whatever I put them in my post-its So you know because it's like Oh I got an idea for packaging Well um I'm at work I can do it So I just shoot myself an email So here comes Sunday then on Sunday it has a home and it's on my Big idea. I like columns that I have in my Asana so that's how I kind of continue to you know it just because I'm not literally sitting on my desk Working on Nubia Natalie I'm always thinking about it and I think that's important for people to understand. You can still be at your full time job and then we'll be working on your business You can listen to a podcast and journal um get ideas That's what I used to do when I was um barely starting Um versus you just locking out two hours and being like today that's where I'm gonna work on my business Your business is Every day, 24, seven type of thing. And um, so that's one of the systems I've always been using. I'm emailing to myself. Asana and posted.Simple is the key.
Caitlyn Allen: [00:19:38] Awesome. All right, so where can we find you on the interwebs?
Natalie Arribeno: [00:19:43] Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at Nubia Natalie. So it's N, U, B, I,A. Natalie, N, A, T, A, l, I, E. And then on my um uh website it's nubianatalie.co
Caitlyn Allen: [00:19:57] Awesome Thank you so much for being here
Natalie Arribeno: [00:19:59] Thank you for having me This was very fun.
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