Orel Zilberman spent years inside the kind of addiction most people don’t take seriously. No substances. No rehab. Just a screen, a game, and a mind that had completely given itself over to the loop. At the peak, he was logging 12 to 16 hours a day on League of Legends and Overwatch — counting the minutes he spent outside the house in missed games. Everything else — school, relationships, his own future — was background noise.

What broke the cycle wasn't a dramatic crash. It was a book. A self-development book in Hebrew, passed along by a friend during COVID, that opened a door he hadn't known was there. From that moment in early 2021, Orel started saying no — to games, to distraction, to the comfortable pull of escape — and started saying yes to building something real.

A few years later, he quit a six-figure software job in August 2023, spent over 600 days failing, pivoting, and shipping, and built WriteStack into a six-figure SaaS — documenting every step of it on Substack under the name Indiepreneur.

This conversation got into the guts of what that actually took: the discipline, the anxiety, the identity shift, and the inner work that runs underneath all of it.

Show Notes

[05:00] The Gaming Addiction — What It Actually Felt Like

* Orel started playing MapleStory around age 8. By 13 or 14, League of Legends had become his primary obsession.

* “Every time I left home, every time I did something else, all I could think about is how much time did I spend outside the game that I could have spent playing the game.”

* During university summers, he played 12 to 16 hours a day, brought food to his room, barely left, and barely engaged with his then-girlfriend.

* The grip wasn’t just about time. His mind fed on games even when he wasn’t playing — he watched streams and YouTube videos, thought about in-game items while out in the world.

* At his peak in Overwatch, he ranked in the top 500 players globally. Then one day in February 2021, he said no to a game invite. “That was when I felt empowered.”

Key Insight: “I don’t think that I could feel anything else but wanting to play, wanting to play games.”

[18:19] The Shift — Books, Habits, and Finding a Partner in Change

* The turning point came during COVID when a friend introduced Orel to a self-development book. He describes it now as objectively not great, but says “it was the only thing that I knew and it really helped me.”

* He started waking up at 5 AM, reading, and building new habits. A good friend joined him on the same journey.

* “We kept motivating each other into reading books, improving the memory, improving our sleep, meditating.”

* They read around 100 reports of companies together to learn stock investing — “stocks and books replaced the video games.”

* Orel credits that friendship as one of the luckiest things in his life.

Key Insight: “It was a journey from trying to do a lot of things together to doing a few things together to doing one thing at a time.”

[20:42] Quitting the Job & Trying Everything at Once

* In August 2023, Orel left his software engineering position, giving himself two to three years of runway from savings and investments.

* He came out of the gate trying to do everything simultaneously — YouTube videos, LinkedIn posts, a Unity game, multiple apps. “Spoiler alert, nothing worked.”

* YouTube alone was costing him 30 to 40 hours a week. He hired an editor. The money didn’t come. He stopped.

* The lesson arrived slowly: focus on one thing, then focus on it long enough for it to matter.

Key Insight: “It took me some time to figure out that I need to focus on one thing. And then it took me some more time that I need to focus for quite some time on one thing.”

[24:16] Building WriteStack — The Pivot That Worked

* After 18 months of failed attempts, Orel gave himself one final six-month commitment. If it didn’t work, he’d go back to a job.

* The initial idea for WriteStack was an AI article generator. He built an MVP in two weeks. People didn’t want it.

* His first real user, Casper, told him the problem wasn’t articles — it was notes. Orel pivoted immediately.

* He committed to reading the same five books by Russell Brunson and Alex Hormozi over and over, sent hundreds of direct messages, and stayed in the work.

* On April 6th, Casper became WriteStack’s first paying customer. It grew from there.

Key Insight: “Every other big product for LinkedIn and Twitter and whatever it is focuses on short form... that’s when I pivoted and started seeing more and more traction.”

[29:57] Reaching Six Figures — And Why It Didn’t Feel Like Enough

* WriteStack hit six figures in annual revenue. Orel didn’t celebrate.

* “It just felt like I cannot go below that right now. And the stress of staying above that threshold and even growing more than that was so stressful.”

* When Substack released a native scheduler, he watched 30 to 40 unsubscribes hit in a few days. He described the feeling as everything going to hell — even though he knew, rationally, it wasn’t.

* Every cancellation email carries the same weight. Every slow day on Stripe triggers a spiral.

* He described constantly wanting to check his dashboard mid-conversation: “All I can think about is I should open a new tab quickly and check out Stripe.”

Key Insight: “I have that strong feeling in my heart, like somebody leaves — I mean, feeling so bad about it.”

[36:28] Managing the Mind — Body, Awareness, and Anxiety in Real Time

* Orel talked through his approach to catching anxious thoughts before they take over. The key: notice the body first.

* “If I just relax my shoulders and relax my face, I suddenly feel 60% better, 60% more calm.”

* He described a pattern where unexamined thoughts build on each other throughout the day — each one slightly dimming the mood until something finally tips it over.

* He meditated daily for three years at one point, up to 20 minutes each morning. He stopped, and feels the difference.

* He talked about naming feelings — recognizing anger or anxiety out loud to himself — as another tool for interrupting the spiral.

Key Insight: “I think that’s the number one problem is that we’re not aware even of what’s going on in our minds that we’re just spiraling.”

[50:56] What’s Next — WriteStack x Buffer

* Orel announced on the call (first time saying it publicly) that WriteStack is building a collaboration with Buffer.

* The integration will allow users to schedule content on WriteStack and then post to any platform Buffer supports — Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, TikTok, Threads.

* He’s also designing a tag-to-platform routing system, so specific content types automatically flow to the right channels.

Key Insight: “So people can schedule on WriteStack and then post it on any platform that they want.”

Key Quotes

“All I would do is just play video games and secretly wish I had more time alone to play.” — Orel Zilberman

“Everything that I could do with the thousands or tens of thousands of hours that I spent playing video games, that I could do something else.” — Orel Zilberman

“I said no. And that was when I felt empowered.” — Orel Zilberman

“It took me some time to figure out that I need to focus on one thing. And then it took me some more time that I need to focus for quite some time on one thing.” — Orel Zilberman

“The thoughts just go through your mind, they put the stress on you, they make you feel something, they make your body change.” — Orel Zilberman

“If I just relax my shoulders and relax my face, I suddenly feel 60% better, 60% more calm.” — Orel Zilberman

Resources Mentioned

* WriteStack — Orel’s SaaS tool for Substack note writers: writestack.io

* Indiepreneur on Substack — Orel’s newsletter documenting his journey building a six-figure SaaS

* Buffer — Social scheduling platform; upcoming WriteStack integration

* Russell Brunson — Author; Orel read his books on repeat during the WriteStack build phase

* Alex Hormozi — Author of $100M Leads; referenced for the 100 daily outreach strategy

* At the Height of the Success — Hebrew self-development book that first interrupted the gaming addiction (author not named in conversation)

Where to Find Orel

* WriteStack: writestack.io

* Orel documents his product-building journey in real time, including wins, pivots, and the honest accounting of what it costs

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Florence Acosta, Luc Lucid, Noelle Richards, Paul k, and everyone who joined us live for this conversation. To Orel for his honesty and openness. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

Do You Recognize This?

Orel’s story hit home for me in a specific way. The addiction he describes — the constant mental pull back to the screen, the counting of minutes, the way the brain starts organizing everything else around the escape — that’s a pattern I recognize. The substance or behavior changes. The underlying architecture doesn’t.

What also struck me was this: the thing that helped him most wasn’t willpower. It was direction. He didn’t quit gaming by white-knuckling it. He replaced it with something that had more pull — books, stocks, building, a friend who was on the same path.

If any part of this conversation is landing for you — if you’re sensing that alcohol has become the default way to decompress, cope, or reward yourself — the first step isn’t a big commitment. It’s just a few honest questions.

The Sober Creative Assessment takes about 3 minutes. It helps you see where you actually are and what might be getting in the way.

Kerry Hoffman is a project manager. She builds systems. She connects dots. She is, by her own admission, very type A.

So when she found herself going out and planning on two drinks, knowing she’d have three, and ending up with four or five — she noticed the problem. The drinking wasn’t following her rules. She was following the drinking’s.

There was no dramatic bottom. No external pressure forcing her hand. She and her husband had decided not to have kids, which meant there was no built-in forcing function on the horizon. No one was going to make this change for her. As she put it plainly: “The change wasn’t going to happen to me.”

So in June 2019, somewhere over the Atlantic on a flight home from Aruba, she read Sober Curious cover to cover. By December of that year, she stopped entirely. And what opened up in that space surprised her — mornings she could actually use, a brain that wouldn’t stop generating ideas, a writing life she hadn’t known she was waiting for, and a book about how to stop letting your to-do list run your life.

Kerry is the voice behind The Proactive Life on Substack, where she writes about systems, grief, travel, creativity, and what it looks like to build a world rather than just a career. She came to Clear Conversations with no performance of recovery — just the clear-eyed account of someone who saw a gap between who she was and how she was living, and closed it.

[00:56] The Drinking Years: College, Law School, and the Tech World

* Kerry started drinking in college and continued through law school in New York City, where going out was simply “what everyone did”

* In her 30s, after pivoting away from law into tech, the pattern persisted — late nights with coworkers, mornings that were less than stellar

* She reflects that she was “in this boat together” with everyone around her, which made it easy to normalize

Key Insight: “When I look back on that, I think, oh, that feels like bad behavior, but we were kind of all in this boat together.” — Kerry Hoffman

[03:03] The Moment of Recognition: Control and Identity

* Around 2018-2019, Kerry began noticing the disconnect between who she was and how she behaved when drinking

* As a type-A project manager, she set rules she never followed: planning on two drinks and ending up with four or five

* She recognized that without an external forcing function — kids, health crisis, relationship pressure — the change would have to come from her

Key Insight: “I knew that if I wanted to make a change, I was going to have to proactively decide to make a change. The change wasn’t going to happen to me.” — Kerry Hoffman

[09:12] The Strategy: One Drink a Week

* Rather than going cold turkey, Kerry chose a single, clear rule: one drink per week

* She felt an all-or-nothing approach would set her up to declare failure at the first slip

* A trip to Japan four months in tested the rule — she broke it, felt terrible, and came home more committed than before

Key Insight: “I knew that a complex set of rules was going to be too much to manage and too easy to break.” — Kerry Hoffman

[15:30] What Sobriety Gave Her: Time, Writing, and the Morning

* Kerry began waking at 5 a.m. to write, journal, or read — time that had previously been lost to winding down and rough mornings

* She describes a consistent observation: even without a hangover, drinking disrupts sleep and slows the brain’s startup the next day

* She flew herself to Savannah, Georgia for a self-designed three-day writer’s retreat, then did it again in Raleigh

Key Insight: “Ever since I stopped drinking, my brain is always exploding with ideas and fun things to write about, things to do, things to try.” — Kerry Hoffman

[18:52] Creativity Beyond the Canvas: Curiosity as a Practice

* Kerry challenges the idea that creativity belongs only to people who paint, play music, or write

* She describes themed dinner parties, a daily photo practice from a writing class with Ann Napolitano, and actively looking for unexpected details on daily walks

* She connects creativity to curiosity, calling it the most appealing quality in another person

Key Insight: “I think creativity is very closely linked to curiosity. And that’s, I would say, the most appealing quality to me in another person — someone who is curious.” — Kerry Hoffman

[27:46] The Proactive Life: Systems, Grief, and the Book in Progress

* Kerry is writing a book about using systems-level thinking at the personal level — becoming the project manager of your own life

* Her argument: goals rarely make it onto the to-do list because people don’t operationalize them alongside the daily demands

* She also writes about grief, travel, and books on her Substack, and recently started a writer’s group of five people in New York City

Key Insight: “Too often, what we want to do, our goals, the things that we aspire to do, they actually don’t make it onto the to-do list, right? Because there are things that we think about, but we don’t operationalize it.” — Kerry Hoffman

Key Quotes

“I knew that if I wanted to make a change, I was going to have to proactively decide to make a change. The change wasn’t going to happen to me.” — Kerry Hoffman

“The drinking is in charge, not me.” — Kerry Hoffman

“I knew that a complex set of rules was going to be too much to manage and too easy to break.” — Kerry Hoffman

“Ever since I stopped drinking, my brain is always exploding with ideas and fun things to write about, things to do, things to try.” — Kerry Hoffman

“I think creativity is very closely linked to curiosity. And that’s, I would say, the most appealing quality to me in another person — someone who is curious.” — Kerry Hoffman

Resources Mentioned

* Sober Curious — the book Kerry read on the flight home from Aruba that sparked her decision to change her relationship with alcohol

* Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott — referenced at a book talk Kerry attended

* The Happiness Project by Gretchen Rubin — Rubin’s practice of choosing a visual theme for daily walks

* Ann Napolitano’s writing class — where Kerry learned the one-photo-a-day practice

* Athletic Brewing — mentioned as an example of how the NA market has expanded since Kerry stopped drinking

Where to Find Kerry

* LinkedIn: Kerry Ann Hoffman

* Instagram: @soverycary

* Website: soverycary.co

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Heidi's Guitar Stuff, Florence Acosta, Inge van de Graaf, Noelle Richards, and everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Kerry Hoffman for her extraordinary honesty and insight. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

With The Reset, You Get To Choose

Kerry didn’t wait for a reason. She looked at the gap between who she was and how she was living — and she chose to close it. No external pressure. No dramatic low. Just a clear-eyed decision that the drinking was in charge, and she wanted that back.

That’s exactly the kind of person the Reset is built for.

If you’re getting things done, showing up, functioning — but mornings take longer to come online, focus breaks more easily, and your output doesn’t match your effort — that’s worth paying attention to. Alcohol doesn’t have to feel like a problem to be quietly costing you.

The Sober Creative Reset starts this week. It’s 30 days. One container. Daily reflections, weekly check-ins, and a private space for accountability and support.

No labels. No lifetime decisions. No pressure to decide forever.

This is the Release phase of the work — removing what’s obscuring your footing so you can see what’s actually there.

And this cohort is pay your own price. You decide what it’s worth to you.

Kerry said it herself: the change won’t come to you. You have to decide to make it.

This is where you start.

Some guests come to these conversations with a tidy arc — the fall, the turning point, the recovery. Doan Winkel doesn’t have that story. He has something interesting and one we explored: the willingness to still be in it.

At 25, after three stints in rehab, a suicide attempt, and a collection of dangerous adventures he can only partially recall, Doan made a decision that no program, sponsor, or support group could make for him. He was exhausted. He quit. What he didn’t understand until his late 40s was that quitting substances wasn’t the same as dealing with the addiction. He had simply moved it somewhere else — into work. Into the all-consuming drive to build, teach, achieve, and impact. Into a PhD completed in three and a half years. Into a newsletter reaching 20,000 people. Into 80-hour weeks that cost him the same things the drinking once did.

Now in his 50s, Doan is doing the harder work — the one without applause. He’s an associate professor of entrepreneurship, an AI education consultant, and a TEDx speaker who has helped shape curriculum at more than 120 institutions worldwide. He’s also a person still learning how to put the phone down, sit with his dogs on a quiet morning, and just be somewhere without his mind already being somewhere else. That tension — between drive and destruction, between output and what it costs you — runs through every minute of this conversation.

[02:08] Growing Up in Indiana: Curiosity, Access, and the Feel-Good Trap

Doan walks back through his teens — parties in Indiana fields, a boarding school outside Detroit with 400 teenage boys, minimal adult supervision, and proximity to a city. No trauma. No triggering event. Just access, older kids, and something that felt good.

* Doan grew up in an intellectual household where parents were “pretty oblivious” — not neglectful, but not paying close attention.

* Boarding school at 16 meant being surrounded by teenagers with “close to unlimited wealth” and little oversight near downtown Detroit.

* He’s explicit that there was no family trauma at the root: “No, it was just friends...we started hanging out with them, and they like drinking beer. I can’t drink carbonation. It makes me throw up. So I was like, can’t do that. What else you got?”

* By 25 he had done rehab, AA, NA — each with an interior motive that wasn’t really about getting sober.

Key Insight: “Literally one day I was like, man, I’m just exhausted.” — Doan Winkel

[07:08] The Transfer: Quitting One Thing, Starting Another

This section is the heart of the conversation. Doan explains what happened after he quit — and why, in his late 40s, he had to admit that quitting drinking wasn’t the same as dealing with the addiction.

* He poured everything into academics and teaching, completing his PhD in about three and a half years when most people in his field take four or five.

* The same addictive pattern — obsession, all-in focus, consequences to relationships — just relocated.

* “It’s done probably on some level irreparable harm with my relationship with my wife, my relationship with my kid, just in general, lots of things.”

* His child heading off to college in their 20s gave him a new vantage point: “coulda, woulda, shoulda.”

* Therapy and “the benefit of 50 years of life” have helped him look back and start to see what actually matters.

Key Insight: “I didn’t really change much in terms of consequences of my actions. I just shifted it to a different area.” — Doan Winkel

[17:46] Work Addiction: The One That Benefits Other People

Doan describes the specific shape his work addiction takes and why it’s so hard to treat — because it produces good outcomes for others while doing damage closer to home.

* Teaching gives him the same hit the substances once did: “People giving me feedback on the impact I can...I just want more of that. It’s still wanting more of the same type of feeling.”

* He has no hobbies. When people ask what he does in his spare time, the honest answer is: “I work. Work, go to sleep.”

* He describes the work obsession as emotionally destructive in the same ways as drinking — ignoring marriage, fatherhood, friendships, and the kind of presence that makes someone a whole person.

* Back when he was using, all he could think about was the next drink or the next fix. Now: “I struggle mightily to stop thinking about work — just being present wherever I am.”

* The pattern of thinking has been there since early life. Getting free of it is the actual hard work.

Key Insight: “It’s more still equally, I think, emotionally destructive.” — Doan Winkel

[23:21] Building New Habits: Small Steps, Real Presence

Doan talks about what’s actually working for him now — not grand overhauls, but structured small moments that create space between him and the pull of work.

* His two chocolate lab sisters are a built-in morning ritual: early wake-up, no phone, no TV, just time with the dogs and whatever comes to mind that isn’t work-related.

* When work creeps in — and it does, every single day — he trains himself to redirect: “emails gonna be fine later, still gonna...whatever.”

* Coming home from work, he tries to be curious about his wife’s day rather than launching into a monologue about his own.

* Travel is a bigger reset: “let’s just chill out...it’s not work stuff.”

* He compares the practice to early sobriety: “I’m not going to drink for an hour” — just building the habit in small increments.

Key Insight: “I’m not trying to overhaul anything. I’m not doing anything really big. It’s just these kind of smaller moments to build habits.” — Doan Winkel

[29:13] Creativity, Sobriety, and Transferable Skills

Both Josh and Doan explore the overlap between the resourcefulness required to sustain an addiction and the drive that fuels creative and entrepreneurial work.

* “We had to be creative to keep doing what we were doing. So again, it’s sort of transferred over.”

* The skills of adaptability, reading situations, and staying scrappy under pressure — developed during using days — translate directly to entrepreneurship.

* “There’s skills we’ve developed and ways of thinking and ways of engaging with the world that we developed. We could transfer those to more positive ways and more positive outcomes.”

* Doan describes himself as having “hustle for days” and “creativity for days” — and credits the unconventional route to those strengths.

Key Insight: “We built those skills and they’re actually really valuable if put to use in a positive way.” — Doan Winkel

[30:45] Teaching AI and Preparing Students for What’s Actually Next

Doan shifts into his professional work: why he’s so invested in AI education, what he believes college is failing to do, and how a mastery-based approach is different.

* His TEDx talk — titled “College Can Prepare You for the Real World, But It Doesn’t” — is, in his words, “still very relevant today, unfortunately.”

* He sees his job as helping students get work that’s meaningful, pays the bills, and gives them purpose: “I see my job as helping them do that, as doing everything I can do to help them do that.”

* Most classroom learning isn’t transferable on its own — students need coaching to connect the dots, and they need real projects, not just concepts.

* On AI: “It’s not so much that it’s going to take jobs...it’s the people who don’t know how to use it are going to be replaced by people who do know how to use it. That’s it.”

* He compares AI literacy to internet literacy: not optional, not a threat to identity — just the next thing people need to get good at.

* His mastery-based framework emphasizes real-world projects, accountability, and skill-building over content delivery.

Key Insight: “I don’t need to impart a whole bunch of content or knowledge...What I need to do is coach and train them on how you apply these things and how you transfer this knowledge and these experiences into things that are going to be in whatever you want to do in life.” — Doan Winkel

Key Quotes

“Literally one day I was like, man, I’m just exhausted.” — Doan Winkel

“I didn’t really change much in terms of consequences of my actions. I just shifted it to a different area.” — Doan Winkel

“It’s still wanting more of the same type of feeling. It’s just in a positive way that it’s a positive impact on others instead of a destructive impact on me or on others.” — Doan Winkel

“The people who don’t know how to use it are going to be replaced by people who do know how to use it. That’s it.” — Doan Winkel

“We built those skills and they’re actually really valuable if put to use in a positive way.” — Doan Winkel

Resources Mentioned

* How to Teach with AI — Doan’s free Substack newsletter focused on AI in education

* “College Can Prepare You for the Real World, But It Doesn’t” — Doan’s TEDx talk

* Mastery-based learning — the pedagogical framework Doan uses with students, focused on real projects and skill transfer over content delivery

* Work addiction / behavioral addiction — explored throughout the conversation as a concept distinct from substance dependency, with overlapping patterns

Where to Find Doan

* LinkedIn — Doan’s most active platform for connection, conversation, and sharing his work: search Doan Winkel

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Harry Hogg, Shah Huzaifa, Florence Acosta, Rachel Connor, Noelle Richards, and to Doan Winkel for his candor and courage. Showing up honestly — especially when you don’t have everything figured out — is the thing. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

From This Conversation to Your Own

Doan’s story isn’t a recovery story in the traditional sense. It’s something more complicated and, for a lot of people in this community, more recognizable. The addiction didn’t disappear when the substance did. It found other places to live — productive ones, even admirable ones. But the cost was real.

That’s exactly why the work matters. Sobriety is one piece. What comes after — who you’re building, how you’re showing up, what you’re actually doing with the clarity you’ve earned — that’s where The Sober Creative Method™ picks up.

If you’re past the first question and into the harder one — not “should I stop?” but “what do I actually want my life to look like?” — that’s the 90-day work. We go through it together: Release → Create → Become.

Phil Powis ❤️⚡️ walked into his mid-30s running a consulting business that looked like success from every angle. Over $100,000 a month. A growing reputation. And underneath all of it, a body slowly breaking down in ways no doctor could explain.

By the time a golf ball-sized tumor appeared in his neck—with a 50/50 chance of cancer—Phil had spent years trying to outwork, outsmart, and outlast whatever was happening inside him. What the diagnosis gave him wasn’t a plan. It gave him a reckoning. And from that reckoning, everything changed: his diet, his relationships, his location, his relationship with alcohol, and eventually, the business he built alongside his partner Carolina Wilke.

That business, Sacred Business Flow, operates from a simple premise—your business challenges and your personal challenges are the same pattern showing up in different rooms.

In this conversation, Phil traces the long arc from sickness to clarity, shares where he’s landed on alcohol after 10 years without it, and talks about what he’s building next for people who hold something in their heart but haven’t yet found the courage to move toward it.

[01:00] Phil’s Early Relationship with Alcohol

Phil grew up in the South and started drinking around 15 or 16. He carried that through college, into corporate life in tech in Boston, and into his professional years—never feeling like it was a “problem” per se, but acknowledging there were periods where it was probably more than useful.

* Alcohol was deeply tied to social identity—happy hours, networking, the culture around him. It wasn’t something he questioned; it was just part of how he connected with people.

* The shift only came when his health started to deteriorate, and even then, alcohol was the last thing he was willing to let go of.

* He eventually stopped drinking entirely—and wouldn’t drink again for over ten years.

Key Insight: “I was still so tied into this identity of going and how I was connecting with people and socializing and things like this, that it was hard to let go of.”

[07:00] When the Body Starts Sending Signals

In his late 20s, Phil went from feeling like the picture of perfect health to waking up exhausted, dealing with aches, headaches, and a body that no longer felt like his. Doctors couldn’t pin it down.

* He worked with ancestral health nutritionist Mary Rudick, who had her own story of illness and recovery. One of the first things she asked him to do was cut out alcohol.

* Phil made the other dietary and lifestyle changes more easily—fasting protocols, food restrictions—but alcohol took longer. The health motivation eventually won out.

* He didn’t drink for over 10 years, a period that overlapped with his most serious health challenges, including the tumor.

Key Insight: “She’s like, if you’re on any sort of a healing path, this is not going to be helpful for that.”

[11:30] The Tumor, the Surgery, and the Real Recovery

Phil spent about a year and a half walking around with an undiagnosed tumor while going to the Mayo Clinic for biopsies that couldn’t confirm whether it was cancerous. He was living in a low-grade, constant fear.

* He was simultaneously working with Carolina Wilke (who would later become his business partner) on nervous system regulation and emotional work, doing dietary protocols, and exploring whether he could heal without surgery.

* He eventually had the tumor removed. What followed was a rapid, remarkable recovery—one he credits to the compounding effect of all the shifts he’d made.

* After the surgery, he realized how much of what he’d been doing—even the good, purposeful work—had been driven by a fear that time was running out.

Key Insight: “I couldn’t, before that surgery, I couldn’t even do like one push-up...my nervous system was so fried.”

[17:00] Choosing to Drink Again—and What That Meant

After years of restriction during his illness, reclaiming his health meant slowly allowing things back in. Expanding his diet. Letting himself have birthday cake again. And, eventually, having his first beer.

* For Phil, that first drink in Costa Rica with Carolina wasn’t a relapse or a capitulation—it was a celebratory claiming of his health. A marker of arrival.

* He was clear that this is a deeply personal decision, and that he believes drinking can be a healthy social ritual when done responsibly and in moderation—for some people, in some seasons.

* He joined the January Sober Creative Reset not from a place of necessity, but curiosity: what would it feel like to pause again, from a place of power rather than survival?

Key Insight: “For me in that moment, it was a very beautiful celebratory claiming of my health back again.”

[19:15] The January Reset: Choosing Clarity from Power, Not Fear

Phil came into the Reset asking a question most people in this community know well—who am I when I’m not using this thing to cope, connect, or coast?

* He found the Reset to be a non-judgmental container where people were exploring their relationship with alcohol for very different reasons, and that felt important.

* He’s been health-focused in his 40s in new ways—working toward physical goals he’s never had before—and part of that was wanting to examine alcohol’s role honestly.

* His takeaway: it’s useful in any area of life to periodically question what’s running you and whether you’re conscious of it.

Key Insight: “I think this is a very helpful thing to do in different aspects, not even just with alcohol, but other aspects of your life—is always to be questioning the role that things are playing and just making sure that you’re not being governed by things in ways that you’re not conscious of.”

[23:25] Creativity, Mornings, and What Alcohol Actually Does to the Work

Phil is a 4 a.m. person. His best creative work—everything he writes for Substack, the ideas that flow without friction—happens in those early hours. That’s always been true, with or without alcohol in his life.

* When he does drink, he’s made a clear personal rule: no creative work after that point. The ideas don’t fire the same way. He described feeling “blunted” and “not sharp.”

* He’s never used alcohol as part of a creative process—unlike some of the documented history of writers and artists who did—because his most alive creative time is the morning, not the evening.

* The correlation he’s observed: alcohol signals to his brain that the creative day is over.

Key Insight: “I feel that alcohol does stunt...even though I still drink, I do feel that it stunts my creative process.”

[30:20] What Phil Is Building: Sacred Business Flow and the New Community

Three years into Sacred Business Flow, Phil and Carolina have been working with people who want to bring something from their hearts into the world—usually a business expression—but keep hitting invisible resistance.

* Their existing work requires people to have already made a committed decision to move. But they’ve seen a whole group of people who hold a vision but aren’t quite there yet.

* They’re launching a new community called Radiant Flow—a lower-cost, widely accessible space built around embodiment practices: movement-based, yoga-inspired, breathwork-influenced work designed to build capacity for creative expression.

* The distinction Phil draws: most regulated people have inner practices that maintain a baseline of safety. Radiant Flow is for expansion—for moving through discomfort, resistance, and into the actual creation process.

* Phil is also moving to Rio de Janeiro, settling beachside, and curious about what a new environment will do for his own creative output.

Key Insight: “We’re helping people who hold something in their heart, a desire to create something...and maybe for a variety of reasons, they found it difficult to kind of get traction and move forward with that.”

Key Quotes

“After so many years of it being part of my identity, it was actually a bit confronting.” — Phil Powis

“I realized it wasn’t until after the fact that I realized how much I was carrying around this idea...I had this deeply ingrained kind of subconscious belief that I was effectively slowly dying.” — Phil Powis

“I think there is a way that drinking can be a healthy, social, celebratory ritual when done responsibly and when done in moderation.” — Phil Powis

“Drinking or no drinking, I would say that alcohol has never really been part of my creative process and I see it more as a hindrance.” — Phil Powis

“I think your reset really gave me a really beautiful opportunity just to reconnect with my own journey and to see how I felt.” — Phil Powis

Resources Mentioned

* Sacred Business Flow — Phil and Carolina Wilke’s business and coaching framework (sacredbusinessflow.com)

* Sacred Growth Club — their existing community on Substack

* Radiant Flow — Phil and Carolina’s new embodiment-based community (launching at the time of this recording)

* Mary Rudick — ancestral health nutritionist referenced in Phil’s health journey

* Leo Babauta from Zen Habits — a creator Phil worked with during his consulting years

* Mayo Clinic — where Phil received care and biopsies during his illness

Where to Find Phil

Phil Powis ❤️⚡️ is co-founder of Sacred Business Flow alongside Carolina Wilke. Find his writing on Substack as part of the Sacred Growth Club community. Their work sits at the intersection of business strategy and nervous system regulation—helping people move from idea to creation with both clarity and embodied readiness.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Florence Acosta, Finn Tropy | StackContacts, Michele Gill, Noelle Richards, Cheri Seagraves, and many others who joined us live for this conversation, and to Phil Powis ❤️⚡️ for his generosity, honesty, and the kind of story-sharing that makes this community worth showing up for. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

The April Reset Is Open — At Whatever Price Works for You

Phil came into the January Sober Creative Reset asking who he’d be if he chose to pause alcohol from a place of power, not necessity. He left with clarity.

Phil’s testimony from the reset:

I was part of Josh’s Sober Creative Reset in January of 2026. Josh created an incredibly supportive structure for allowing us all to examine our relationship with alcohol and the part we want it to play in our lives. In the end, I am not choosing to abstain from Alcohol fully, but the gift of this challenge was insights on when and why I choose to drink and how I want to approach it consciously going forward. This was a wonderful experience that I would recommend to anyone wanting to examine their relationship with alcohol.

This conversation is a reminder that your relationship with alcohol doesn’t have to fit a label. It just has to be something you’re honest about. The Reset gives you a structured, non-judgmental space to get honest—about what’s running you, what you’re protecting, and what might open up when you create some distance from it.

This April’s cohort is capped at 25 members, and the pricing is now pay-what-you-can. Because the barrier to examining your relationship with alcohol shouldn’t be a price point.

If this conversation resonated, would love to share this experience with you in April.

Discover what becomes possible when you remove the filter and start creating life from a clear lens. Let’s explore that together.

Florence Acosta spent nearly 30 years giving everything she had to everyone around her.

As a nurse. As a CRNA holding patients’ lives in her hands. As an executive director managing surgical teams, patient safety, and the invisible weight of being the person everyone else leaned on. As a daughter-in-law who watched her former father-in-law disappear into addiction while his family quietly stopped asking. As a wife who kept saying what she needed — and kept being met with silence.

She gave and gave and gave. And she never once stopped to ask what was left in her own cup.

Then, at 50, a stroke made the choice for her.

A ruptured AVM she was likely born with and never knew about took her career, her ability to drive, and the identity she had spent decades building around strength and responsibility. It stripped away every role she had used to define herself.

What she found underneath — slowly, through a women’s circle, through daily writing, through the courage to finally speak — was something she had been too busy pouring out to notice: herself.

This conversation is about what happens when the cup runs dry. And what becomes possible when you finally decide to fill it.

[00:00] Introduction — A Life Built Around Giving

* Florence is a Michigan-based writer, retired healthcare professional, and the voice behind Becoming You, a daily Substack on intentional living and personal growth.

* She spent nearly 30 years in nursing — including as a CRNA and executive director of a surgical center — before a hemorrhagic stroke at 50 permanently changed her life.

* The stroke came from a ruptured AVM she was likely born with and never knew she had. It took her career, her ability to drive, and the identity she had built around being the one who holds everything together.

* Florence now writes daily for people — women and men — who learned early that it wasn’t safe to ask for what they needed.

Key Insight: “She’s living proof that sometimes it takes losing the life you built to finally start living the one that was always yours.” — Josh Woll

[04:01] The Family That Stopped Asking — Addiction Up Close

* Florence opened up publicly for the first time about her former father-in-law’s alcoholism — a presence she witnessed from the earliest days of her marriage.

* As a nurse, her first instinct was to help. She couldn’t understand why those closest to him had gone quiet.

* Over time she understood: they had tried for years, exhausted themselves, and eventually the silence became easier than hope. His drinking became the family’s unspoken backdrop.

* He would wander from home and turn up at the liquor store. He’d leave family events with beer cans stuffed in his jacket pockets in the summer heat — and nobody said a word, because no one wanted to cause a scene.

Key Insight: “They were saying things to try to get him to help himself, but it’s been so long that they were doing this that they just gave up on him, and this became his normal.” — Florence Acosta

[07:58] The One Word That Makes Help Possible

* Florence and Josh both arrived at the same word when talking about why helping someone in addiction is so hard: open.

* Josh reflected on his own experience — people around him asking if he was sure he wanted another drink, and him being completely certain he was fine. No perspective on what others were seeing.

* Florence connected it back to her father-in-law: he was never open to receiving help. And without that opening, even the most persistent love eventually wears itself out.

* The hard truth: you can’t fill someone else’s cup if they won’t hold it out.

Key Insight: “You have to be open to receiving it, to receive that help.” — Florence Acosta

[13:21] The Cost of Always Putting Yourself Last

* Florence described the particular weight of her anesthesia work: bringing patients to the brink of death and being held responsible for bringing them back.

* But when asked what she did to take care of herself through all of it, her answer was immediate and honest: “I didn’t really take care of myself. I always put myself last.”

* As a nurse, as a nurturer, as a caregiver — she poured everything out and kept running on empty.

* The turning point came in 2019 when she joined a women’s circle: 20 women, meeting weekly for nine months, with two three-day offline retreats. It was the first time she was asked to reflect on what she actually needed.

Key Insight: “I always put myself last. And I didn’t start putting myself first until 2019 when I joined this organization.” — Florence Acosta

[17:23] The Talking Basket — Practicing the Ask

* The circle used a practice called the talking basket — passed around so each person could voice their needs out loud, in front of others.

* Florence was always the last to go. Always shy. Always hesitant to take up space or ask for anything.

* The teachings weren’t meant to be answered to the group — they were meant to be sat with privately. Florence did the work. And through that reflection, she arrived at something simple she had never really let herself believe: I’m important too. I matter.

* That realization — that her cup deserved to be filled too — changed everything that followed.

Key Insight: “We can’t pour from an empty cup, right? So as nurses, we have to fill our cups up, too. Because you can give proportionately. But how can you give yourself emotionally if you don’t fill your cup, too?” — Florence Acosta

[21:23] When an Empty Cup Breaks a Marriage

* Florence connected the dots between her father-in-law’s untreated alcoholism and the slow unraveling of her marriage.

* Her former husband had learned, growing up, to sweep hard things under the rug. He’d done it with his father for years. And when Florence told him what she needed, he did the same thing to her.

* Not out of cruelty — out of habit. Out of a pattern so ingrained it felt like normal.

* The birthday party image captures it: everyone watching her father-in-law leave with beer cans in his jacket pockets. Nobody saying a word. The silence was the problem.

Key Insight: “Brushing under the rug became normal for him. And ultimately, that’s what led to the demise of our marriage.” — Florence Acosta

[27:41] Filling the Cup — Community, Creativity, and Becoming You

* Florence launched her Substack without researching it — she just built the page, started writing, and trusted that the right people would find it.

* What fills her cup now: quality time with her mom, her husband, her stepdaughter. The comments on her Substack. The back and forth with readers who feel less alone because of her words.

* She’s also building something new with her sister — a creative project she can’t fully reveal yet. The shift she named: as a child she preferred to work alone because you can go faster. What she knows now is that you can go farther with someone beside you.

* Her platform, Becoming You, is still growing — and still grounded in the same belief that started it: authentic is the only thing worth being.

Key Insight: “I just want people to come to this space and feel like they’re not alone and they can be themselves authentically. Because if you’re not you, then you’re fake. And we don’t want fake people in our lives.” — Florence Acosta

Key Quotes

“They were saying things to try to get him to help himself, but it’s been so long that they were doing this that they just gave up on him, and this became his normal.” — Florence Acosta

“You have to be open to receiving it, to receive that help.” — Florence Acosta

“I always put myself last. And I didn’t start putting myself first until 2019 when I joined this organization.” — Florence Acosta

“We can’t pour from an empty cup, right? So as nurses, we have to fill our cups up, too. Because you can give proportionately. But how can you give yourself emotionally if you don’t fill your cup, too?” — Florence Acosta

Resources Mentioned

* Becoming You — Florence Acosta’s daily Substack newsletter on intentional living, mindset, and personal growth

* Women’s Circle / Sisterhood — The nine-month community experience Florence joined in 2019, including weekly gatherings and two three-day offline retreats

* Substack — The long-form writing platform both Florence and Josh use to build real, vulnerable community

Where to Find Florence

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Florence Acosta for her honesty, her openness, and for trusting this space with a story she hadn't shared before. And to Margaret Williams, MS, ACC, Little Edits Atelier, Patrick LaRose, 📚Carolyn Parker, Nabanita, and everyone else who showed up and listened — your presence is what makes these conversations worth having.

Your Cup Deserves to Be Full Too

Florence spent nearly thirty years giving everything she had.

As a nurse. As a caregiver. As the person everyone leaned on. She poured and poured and never once asked what was left in her own cup.

Not because she didn’t care about herself. Because she never stopped long enough to check.

Most of us don’t.

We keep going. We keep producing. We keep showing up. And somewhere along the way, the depletion starts to feel like just... the terrain. Normal. Expected. The cost of doing the work.

Alcohol fits neatly into that story. It softens the edges at the end of a long day. It makes the empty cup feel temporarily full.

But it doesn’t fill it. It just makes you less aware of how empty it is.

That’s what 30 days without it tends to reveal. Not emptiness — but capacity. The thing that was there all along, waiting for the noise to settle.

Florence eventually found her way to that question.

What’s actually in my cup? What’s mine?

The Reset is a supportive path to the same inquiry.

30 days. One container. Real clarity. No labels. No lifetime decisions. No pressure.

Just a structured stretch of time to find out what’s underneath.

Discover what becomes possible when you remove the filter and start creating life from a clear lens. Let’s explore that together.

530 days sober and still counting — this conversation will remind you what it means to come home to yourself.

Mary Peeples has lived many lives inside one. The theater kid from South Georgia who played Annie at the Fox. The boarding school girl who quietly lost herself trying to fit in. The 23-year-old editor-in-chief who, by her own account, torched it all by 25. And then, the one who finally walked into rehab — not as a breaking point, but as a bridge back.

What makes Mary’s story so powerful isn’t just the sobriety. It’s the honest, patient work of excavating who she actually is beneath all the performances. The writing. The drawing. The day her dad heard her singing around the house again and knew she was coming back to life. The small, sacred acts of a person learning to trust herself.

In this conversation, we talk about perfectionism, identity, creative recovery, and what it really means to dig out your own groove. Mary is currently 530 days sober, building her Substack Little Edits Atelier, and stepping back into music for the first time in years.

This one’s for anyone who has ever lost their creative voice — and wondered if they could find it again.

Show Notes

[0:00] Introduction — The Many Lives of Mary Peeples

* Mary began performing on a national tour of Irving Berlin’s White Christmas at 10 and played Annie at the Fox Theater in Atlanta at 11.

* Even in moments of standing ovations, she was mouthing “I’m sorry” — a perfectionist before she knew what that word meant.

* Singing became her identity in a small South Georgia town, but it also created an early tension between who she was and who she was expected to be.

* Her story is one of a creative person who had to lose nearly everything to finally find what was real.

Key Insight: “The more accomplishments I had, the more fun my life felt. And, you know, the more adventure there was.” — Mary Peeples

[7:13] The Beginning of Drinking — Self-Medicating a Perfect Storm

* Serious drinking began around age 19, following years at a high-pressure boarding school where Mary lost her sense of self.

* She was surrounded by competitive, high-achieving peers and used achievement as a way to make friends and earn belonging.

* An undiagnosed ADHD diagnosis until age 21, combined with rejection sensitivity and a pressured environment, created what she describes as a “perfect storm.”

* Genetics and family history also played a role — Mary speaks openly about this without shame.

Key Insight: “It was me self-medicating my ADHD... partly some PTSD from being in an environment where I didn’t know who I was.” — Mary Peeples

[11:05] Walking Into Rehab — Surrender as a Choice

* Mary knew she was going to rehab for two months before she went, and she chose to do it thoughtfully and methodically.

* She describes rehab not as a crisis intervention but as “my only bridge back from whatever isolated island I had put myself on.”

* The structure of rehab — morning routines, yoga, group sessions — felt oddly familiar, like boarding school or summer camp. Her body found homeostasis quickly.

* The harder part wasn’t getting sober. It was facing the damage she had done to the people she loved.

Key Insight: “Getting sober was easy... It has taken me more than 530 days to start to forgive myself for the hurt and the damage that I did to my loved ones.” — Mary Peeples

[15:31] Creativity in Recovery — Digging Out Your Own Groove

* In active addiction, Mary had lost all sense of creative urgency. The voices of the outside world — expectations, boxes, a lack of nuance — drowned out her own.

* Getting sober gave her the space to ask a question she hadn’t asked in years: Who am I, really?

* She returned to drawing, took art classes, and slowly began writing again — even though writing had felt completely out of reach.

* Her father’s observation that she was “singing around the house again” became one of the most moving markers of her return to herself.

Key Insight: “I dug out my own groove by getting sober. And I once again was fortunate and blessed enough to take a lot of time.” — Mary Peeples

[19:56] Substack and the Unexpected Community

* After a full year away from social media, Mary discovered Substack — the last place she expected to find creativity and community again.

* Writing consistently, even without a clear weekly theme, began to nourish her in ways she hadn’t anticipated.

* Her Substack Little Edits Atelier started as “the healing rack,” a recovery-focused space, before expanding into something more reflective of her full creative identity.

* Writing has also served as an olive branch — healing relationships with friends of 20+ years through the honesty of her words.

Key Insight: “Reading stuff from people like you and writing my own stuff... it has nourished me in a way that I never thought possible.” — Mary Peeples

[21:00] The Toolkit — Practices That Support a Sober Creative Life

* Mary’s recovery toolkit includes: yoga, The Artist’s Way morning pages, daily journaling, drawing, art therapy, and honest communication.

* She completed a 90-day intensive outpatient program after rehab, and the practices she built there became “secondhand nature.”

* Affirmations from The Artist’s Way have been particularly grounding — including “My creativity is meant for divine goodness.”

* Her framing: “staying 10 steps ahead of my subconscious.” Spiritually grounded, practically applied.

Key Insight: “It opens your ears up to your intuition, which then leads to creative choices that you’re channeling from this great big universe.” — Mary Peeples

[25:04] Writing and the Inner Critic — Curiosity vs. the Voices

* Mary’s most recent Substack piece documented 50 days into The Artist’s Way, describing how her inner world now feels “on the tip of her tongue.”

* She drew a beautiful parallel to Homer invoking the Muses in The Odyssey — the idea that true creative power has to come from somewhere beyond yourself.

* Despite her editorial background, she still wrestles daily with inner voices that say “you have no authority.”

* The work is learning to stay in the curiosity without letting the inner critic kill the execution.

Key Insight: “There’s a curiosity that I have. And then like kind of in the back of my head, the curiosity and in the execution, what voices are trying to keep me from believing in myself.” — Mary Peeples

[30:02] What’s Next — Back to Music, Back to Life

* Mary is working at a record shop, returning to music through a path she never could have predicted — and calling it “exposure therapy.”

* She traveled abroad for the first time (to Greece) while sober, describing the willingness to feel fear and do it anyway as a core recovery value.

* Her mom told her over Christmas: “Mary, you’re like your 40-year-old self now.” She took it as a compliment.

* She describes this chapter as the end of a long treasure hunt — and what she’s finding in the trove is “all full of light.”

Key Insight: “It’s doing the things and taking the leap even if you’re scared.” — Mary Peeples

Key Quotes

“Getting sober was easy. It has taken me more than 530 days to start to forgive myself for the hurt and the damage that I did to my loved ones.” — Mary Peeples

“I dug out my own groove by getting sober.” — Mary Peeples

“It opens your ears up to your intuition, which then leads to creative choices that you’re channeling from this great big universe.” — Mary Peeples

“I was just a bird with broken wings, seriously.” — Mary Peeples

“It gets dark, but then it gets really, really bright and light, and then you don’t believe that it’s real.” — Mary Peeples

Resources Mentioned

* The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron — morning pages practice and affirmations

* The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz — referenced in conversation around beliefs and agreements we hold about ourselves

* Homer’s The Odyssey / The Iliad — invoking the Muses as a metaphor for channeling creative power beyond yourself

* Big Fish (film, dir. Tim Burton) — referenced as a metaphor for being a big fish in a small pond

* Ella Enchanted — referenced humorously in the context of gullibility and believing what others say

* Yoga, journaling, and art therapy — all mentioned as consistent recovery and creative support practices

Where to Find Mary

Mary Peeples writes at Little Edits Atelier on Substack — a space where her identity as a theater kid, former editor, and sober creative all fight for the keyboard. Her writing is honest, curious, and worth your time.

Mary shared this link after our conversation, it’s her performing Annie on stage. The end when she walks off gave me chills. Keep singing Mary!!

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Mary Peeples for her extraordinary honesty, warmth, and willingness to go deep. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

What Becomes Possible When You Can Finally Hear Yourself?

Mary Peeples spent years performing for other people’s approval. The stage. The sorority. The editorial office. Always shape-shifting. Always striving. Always a little louder on the outside than she felt on the inside.

And somewhere along the way, the creative voice she’d had since she was six years old just... went quiet. The writing dried up. The singing stopped. She didn’t lose it all at once. It just slowly slipped away.

530 days later, she’s singing around the house again. She’s writing things that surprise her. She’s trusting the words coming out of her mouth for the first time in a decade.

That’s what clarity does. Not dramatically. Not all at once. Slowly, the way light filters through trees when you’re finally standing still long enough to notice it.

It doesn’t hand you a new identity. It gently returns the one you set down somewhere along the way.

The Sober Creative Reset is 30 days of that kind of attention — daily reflections, weekly group calls, and a small private community of people who are ready to slow down and notice what’s been growing underneath the noise. No pressure. No lectures. Just mornings that invite something from you, and a warm container that holds you while you explore.

The next Reset opens for enrollment tomorrow. Early access pricing is $149 for the first 24 hours — after that, it moves to $199. Twenty-five people. No more.

If something in this conversation resonated — if you recognized even a little of yourself in Mary’s story — that quiet recognition is worth following.

P.S. You can access all previous episodes here. If someone forwarded this to you and you’d like to subscribe, you’re always welcome here.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

Jocelyn Ulevicus teared up before the conversation even really began. Hearing her own story reflected back to her, she said something that set the tone for everything that followed: “I’m just living my story, I’m just surviving my story and trying to make something beautiful out of it that feels more akin to living versus surviving.”

That tension — between surviving and truly living — is at the heart of this episode. Jocelyn is an American artist and writer based in Paris who has spent years circling sobriety without claiming the label. She grew up in a home where alcohol was woven into every occasion. She used it to numb grief after devastating losses. She rode slippery slopes and chose herself anyway. And only recently — a few months before this conversation — did she decide, quietly and firmly, that she was done.

What makes Jocelyn’s voice so compelling is her honesty about how nonlinear it all is. She’s not at the finish line. She’s in the middle of her story, working through creative blocks, seeking a literary agent for her first book, preparing for an art exhibition in Paris, and waking up each morning grateful she didn’t drink the night before.

I'm really glad she said yes to this conversation.

Show Notes

[2:18] First Reactions — The Mirror of Someone Else’s Story

* Jocelyn tears up as she hears her own journey reflected back to her during Josh’s introduction.

* She shares how easy it is to just be in your story without seeing its full arc.

* There’s a profound difference between surviving a story and making something beautiful from it.

Key Insight: “There’s a real power I suppose that can be drawn from having somebody else hold a mirror up to your story because you know in my life I’m just living my story, I’m just surviving my story and trying to make something beautiful out of it that feels more akin to living versus surviving.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[3:54] Growing Up With Alcohol — When It’s Just Part of the Culture

* A photo of Jocelyn at age three holding a beer captures how normalized alcohol was in her childhood home.

* Beers, cocktail parties, and social drinking were simply woven into every occasion — celebration, mourning, unwinding.

* Like many people her generation, alcohol became the social glue of adolescence — keg parties, Boone’s Farm in the woods, sneaking past mom.

* At some point, the fun stopped and the routine began: “Everything was let’s have a drink.”

Key Insight: “Drinking just gets in the way of the good stuff, like the real active living.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[8:07] Grief, Loss, and Learning to Sit With It Sober

* When her mother died, Jocelyn’s coworkers immediately got her drunk — the cultural default for grief.

* After returning to Colorado, alcohol became the fuel for unprocessed anger in her relationship.

* After that breakup, she took nine months off drinking and went to the Outer Banks — her first real time sitting with grief.

* When her father died ten years later, she simply knew not to drink: “The feelings are still going to be there when you sober up.”

* A traumatic street encounter in 2022, combined with watching an artist friend take her own life, became the tipping point.

Key Insight: “I could be going down the same road if I don’t stop and look at myself.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[13:26] The Decision to Go For It — And What Followed

* After the 2022 trauma, Jocelyn spent a year lifting heavy at the gym, not drinking, and confronting everything that remained.

* She describes herself as “still standing, maybe a little bit beat up, but still standing.”

* After completing that year, she drank champagne with a friend — and it became the slippery slope back.

* Moving to Paris (where “everything is wine soaked”) made the drift easy. But a growing sense of inauthenticity made the return to clarity inevitable.

* She’s only a few months into this current chapter of full sobriety — and every day she chooses not to drink feels like a small win.

Key Insight: “Things can happen to you, but what do you choose to do with what happens? And I’m choosing to be as strong and creative and badass as I can be. And for me, I just have to not drink to do that.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[17:47] The Nonlinear Path and Learning to Trust Yourself

* Jocelyn acknowledges she’s still working through some of what’s blocking her from stepping fully into her potential.

* She reframes setbacks not as failures but as reverting to old patterns that once served a purpose — and choosing something better now.

* She describes sobriety as learning a new language: “a coherent language to trust yourself that’s embodied.”

* The morning clarity — waking up rested, clear-eyed, and ready to write before the rest of the world is awake — has become sacred.

Key Insight: “I know the hard days are going to happen, but I love waking up and being like, wow, I didn’t drink yesterday. And it feels totally fresh.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[21:23] Rituals, Alternatives, and the Art of Decoupling

* A live viewer asks whether the ritual of a beautiful glass and a candle can be decoupled from the alcohol and still bring peace. Jocelyn says absolutely yes.

* During her first sober year, she drank non-alcoholic drinks from fancy wine glasses because she realized she loved the experience of the glass, not just what was in it.

* Her current ritual: salted caramel Yogi tea, a special mug gifted by a collector, candles, and her cats.

* The ritual isn’t about the substance — it’s about creating intentional space for yourself.

Key Insight: “I realized I like the glass and I like the experience of having the glass.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[23:29] Painting as Spiritual Practice — Keeping One Thing Sacred

* Jocelyn’s visual work looks bright, joyful, and radiant — but underneath is deep emotional processing.

* The beginning of every painting is a mess: anger, pain, confusion. The final image is what emerges after the inner work.

* She draws the line at filming herself painting. It’s her therapy. Her one private thing in an otherwise public life.

* She believes everyone is born a creative being — and it hurts her to hear people say they’re not creative.

Key Insight: “It’s how I stay alive.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

[33:03] The Book, the Exhibition, and What’s Coming Next

* Jocelyn has written a book — covering the major traumas of her life and what led her to living and working in Paris as a sober woman.

* She’s currently seeking a literary agent, and she shared it out loud on camera for the first time in this conversation.

* She has an art exhibition coming up in Paris in May.

* Her deeper motivation for writing: helping others dissolve shame by seeing themselves in someone else’s honest story.

Key Insight: “I can’t tell you how many times I felt so alone in my feelings or my just humanness. And then I opened up a book. And then I read somebody else and I’m like, oh my gosh, you lived that too?” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

Key Quotes

“There’s a real power I suppose that can be drawn from having somebody else hold a mirror up to your story because you know in my life I’m just living my story, I’m just surviving my story and trying to make something beautiful out of it that feels more akin to living versus surviving.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

“Drinking just gets in the way of the good stuff, like the real active living.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

“Things can happen to you, but what do you choose to do with what happens? And I’m choosing to be as strong and creative and badass as I can be. And for me, I just have to not drink to do that.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

“It’s much easier to keep yourself safe and small.” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

“I can’t tell you how many times I felt so alone in my feelings or my just humanness. And then I opened up a book. And then I read somebody else and I’m like, oh my gosh, you lived that too?” — Jocelyn Ulevicus

Resources Mentioned

* The Living Canvas — Jocelyn’s Substack, featuring paintings, essays, and reflections on womanhood, healing, and becoming

* Yogi Tea (Salted Caramel) — Jocelyn’s favorite non-alcoholic ritual drink during Paris winters

* Circling Sobriety — Jocelyn’s personal essay about her relationship with alcohol, referenced during the conversation

Where to Find Jocelyn

* Instagram: @jocelyn.ulevicus — art, cats, Substack, and her ongoing journey of becoming

* Website: www.jocelynulevicus.com

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Shah Huzaifa, Autumn Day, and to everyone else who joined us live for this conversation, and to Jocelyn Ulevicus for her extraordinary vulnerability, warmth, and honesty. Watching her share her story in real time — including announcing her book for the first time on camera — was a true privilege. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

A Step Beyond the Circle

Jocelyn spent years circling sobriety — not in denial, not in crisis, but in that in-between space where you know something’s off and you keep coming back to the same question. Maybe that sounds familiar.

That quiet interference. The drink you almost poured and didn’t. Waking up clear and thinking, this is how I want to feel. Then sliding back. Then choosing again. The circle is real — and it’s actually where most people are. The problem isn’t the circling. It’s not knowing what to do with it.

I put together a short 10-question assessment to help you figure out exactly where you are in that circle — and what your next step might look like. No labels, no wrong answers, no pressure. Just honesty. When you complete it, I’ll send you a personal video response within 24 hours with what I’m seeing and what might be possible for you.

It takes less than five minutes. And it might be the thing that finally turns the circle into a direction.

P.S. — If you’re new here, you can access all previous newsletters and episodes in the archive. Subscribe below to make sure you never miss a conversation.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

What happens when a creative person spends years completely shut down — unable to work, unable to feel, unable to create? For Justin Donaldson, a landscape artist who now travels the United States in a camper with his family, the answer was a long and honest journey through trauma, therapy, and transformation. Justin grew up in a cult, experienced serious abuse, and spent years pushing through life without ever being taught to process what happened to him. When he finally found financial safety, his body sent him a message he couldn’t ignore: it was time to deal with everything.

Justin’s story isn’t a traditional sobriety story. He never drank because alcohol made his body feel terrible. Instead, his path to clarity moved through cannabis to manage PTSD, and then guided therapeutic psilocybin work alongside serious therapy to confront what years of trauma had buried inside him. His relationship with substances was always intentional — a tool used out of necessity — and when he no longer needed them, he simply let them go. Today, two years substance-free, he doesn’t frame it as a moral choice. He just doesn’t need them anymore.

What makes Justin’s perspective so powerful is the way his inner healing reshaped his creative work. He shifted from spending 40 hours on a single digital commission to painting vibrant gouache landscapes in 90 minutes from life. He went from being trapped in his head to painting from his gut.

In this conversation, he shares the creative philosophy he’s built along the way — one rooted in deep listening, letting go of outcomes, and discovering what it truly means to be both the artist and the audience of your own work.

[00:02] Growing Up in a Cult — The Roots of Shutdown

* Justin grew up in a highly religious cult with an abusive home life. He was raised to avoid all substances — not from wisdom, but from control.

* For most of his life, he was “very shut down” — suppressing emotions and surviving rather than truly living.

* When he finally achieved financial stability through his art career, his body sent a clear signal: it was time to confront everything he had been carrying.

* He was diagnosed with PTSD and found himself unable to work — his body forcing him to stop and process what his mind had been avoiding for decades.

Key Insight: “My body was like, all right, you’re safe now. Now you got to deal with all your stuff.” — Justin Donaldson

[00:05] Therapeutic Psilocybin and Intentional Healing

* After therapy alone proved too slow — he was too shut down to access what needed healing — Justin researched cannabis for PTSD and psilocybin-assisted therapy.

* Psilocybin works by expanding your capacity to hold and process difficult emotions. It allows you to feel fear or anger without shutting down completely.

* He used cannabis to manage day-to-day overwhelm and psilocybin in structured sessions alongside therapy to confront deep trauma.

* He views his nuanced relationship with substances through one key lens: intentionality, not morality. “What are we using them for?” is the only question that matters.

Key Insight: “Magic mushrooms increase your capacity for emotional processing. So if you were to sort of get scared and you get too scared and you shut down, if you’re on magic mushrooms, you get scared and you can hold it.” — Justin Donaldson

[09:00] The Point of No Return — When You No Longer Need Anything

* Over about 18 months of serious work, Justin stopped shutting down, stopped having rage outbursts, and began truly listening to his wife and children without defensiveness.

* He reached a place where he could process emotions entirely on his own — without needing a substance to expand his capacity to hold them.

* He describes psychedelics as having an inherent “violence” — you’re not in control, and once taken, you must surrender to whatever comes up.

* Substance-free for two years, he frames it simply: the situations that were once overwhelming no longer are. The need dissolved with the wound.

Key Insight: “It got to a point where I just didn’t need those anymore and I can just do the emotional work myself now and have big change and big effects.” — Justin Donaldson

[16:00] Becoming an Artist — From YouTube to 40,000 Followers

* Justin taught himself to paint during a year-long visa wait in America — sitting down with YouTube and oil paints, going outside to find and paint beautiful places.

* After years of freelance gigs and a brief stint coding for a game startup, he committed fully to painting — doing Upwork jobs, bridal portraits, and everything in between.

* Mentors told him to cut everything that wasn’t nature-based — the work he truly loved. He listened, and within a month went from 400 to 40,000 Instagram followers.

* Nature was his escape from the oppressive environment he grew up in. Painting it wasn’t career strategy — it was connection to the peace he had always needed.

Key Insight: “As somebody who grew up in a very oppressive environment, going out into nature and finding things that are just like inherently very beautiful is what was kind of like my escape, the be all end all.” — Justin Donaldson

[21:00] From 40 Hours to 90 Minutes — Surrendering to the Gut

* As his inner healing progressed, Justin’s painting transformed — from 40-hour digital commissions to 90-minute gouache landscapes painted from life.

* Painting from life forces a merciless surrender. Your brain turns off, and something will come out the end — great or terrible. Either way, you finish.

* Counterintuitively, working from the gut made his analytical mind more powerful. Finishing more paintings faster means more learning and more refinement.

* The same healing that allowed him to stop reacting and start listening in his relationships is what freed his creative process entirely.

Key Insight: “Being in my gut has made my head more powerful.” — Justin Donaldson

[23:00] Detaching from Right and Wrong — The Process Philosophy

* Letting go of outcomes is the core of Justin’s practice. Latching onto the end result is exactly what stops you from moving forward.

* When you frame creative work through right and wrong, you stop being able to learn. You either dismiss the good or reject the bad — neither teaches you anything.

* True learning comes from curiosity: “Oh, that’s interesting that it happened that way. I could probably use this over here.” That’s the space where real skill grows.

* Because he paints so many — including many terrible ones — he also regularly reaches the end of a painting and thinks: “How did I do that? That’s awesome.” That feeling is only possible when judgment is removed.

Key Insight: “Detaching from right and wrong is process. And then detaching it from right or wrong as outcome, you actually end up being able to make a lot better decisions and really refine your process.” — Justin Donaldson

[29:00] The Art of Deep Listening — Being Both Artist and Audience

* What lights Justin up most is the convergence — when what he’s seeing, what he’s feeling, and what he’s painting all align at once. “That’s when it kind of starts to feel a bit like magic.”

* Art doesn’t exist without the viewer. “The art doesn’t exist without me and my perception of it doesn’t exist without it.” Every creative act is also an act of psychology.

* The goal is to hold both roles at once — the artist with deep intention, and the viewer with completely fresh eyes, receiving the work honestly and openly.

* This is the same capacity he built in therapy — to stop being reactive, to listen deeply, to receive what’s actually happening without defense.

Key Insight: “Getting everything to line up so that what I’m seeing and what I’m feeling and then what I’m painting kind of all have this convergence. And when you can get them all to sit in that spot where they converge, that’s when it kind of starts to feel a bit like magic.” — Justin Donaldson

Key Quotes

“My body was like, all right, you’re safe now. Now you got to deal with all your stuff.” — Justin Donaldson

“It got to a point where I just didn’t need those anymore and I can just do the emotional work myself now and have big change and big effects.” — Justin Donaldson

“Detaching from right and wrong is process. And then detaching it from right or wrong as outcome, you actually end up being able to make a lot better decisions and really refine your process.” — Justin Donaldson

“Being in my gut has made my head more powerful.” — Justin Donaldson

“Getting everything to line up so that what I’m seeing and what I’m feeling and then what I’m painting kind of all have this convergence. And when you can get them all to sit in that spot where they converge, that’s when it kind of starts to feel a bit like magic.” — Justin Donaldson

Resources Mentioned

* Psilocybin-assisted therapy for PTSD — Justin references peer-reviewed studies on psilocybin’s effectiveness in expanding emotional processing capacity during trauma therapy

* Cannabis and PTSD research — Studies on cannabis use for PTSD symptom management

* Gouache painting — Justin’s primary medium for landscape work, which he also teaches online

* Plein air painting (painting from life outdoors) — The practice that transformed Justin’s relationship with time, process, and creative surrender

* City of Rocks, New Mexico — Justin’s current painting location at time of recording; a dramatic natural formation he describes as canyon-like and endlessly fascinating

Where to Find Justin Donaldson

Justin is actively building his presence and shares his work and teaching across multiple platforms. Search for Justin Donaldson artist on any of the following:

* Instagram — Landscape painting and process work

* YouTube — Building a video repertoire (his current focus)

* Twitter/X — Active presence

* Online Courses — Landscape painting and gouache instruction via Zoom, with weekly feedback sessions open to all students regardless of when they enrolled

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Florence Acosta, Noelle Richards, Paul k, and many others who joined us live for this conversation, and to Justin Donaldson for his extraordinary honesty and openness. Sharing a journey this personal — from growing up in a cult to finding joy, presence, and creative freedom — takes real courage. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible and meaningful.

Ready to Remove What’s Blocking Your Best Work?

Justin’s story is a powerful reminder that the path to your greatest creative work isn’t about doing more — it’s about releasing what’s in the way.

He found his freedom through years of honest inner work. And when he finally cleared the noise — the trauma, the reactivity, the need to control outcomes — what was waiting on the other side was clarity. Presence. And work that actually felt like magic.

For many of us, alcohol plays the same role that Justin’s shutdown did. It keeps us from feeling. It keeps us from listening. It keeps us from that place where what we’re seeing, what we’re feeling, and what we’re creating finally converge.

That convergence is what The Sober Creative Method™ is built for.

It’s a 90-day journey designed to remove alcohol as the barrier between you and your greatest work. Not because drinking is wrong — but because you deserve to find out what’s possible when nothing is in the way.

P.S. You can access all previous episodes here. If someone forwarded this to you and you’d like to subscribe, you’re always welcome here.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

Elif Ahmad didn’t walk into a detox center or sit in a circle of folding chairs to get sober. She stood in a shower, held out her hands, and asked the universe for help. Within 24 hours, three years of cocaine addiction simply stopped. No cravings. No withdrawal. Just a complete severing of the cords that had bound her to active addiction.

Her story challenges everything the traditional recovery industry teaches about what it takes to heal. A classical pianist who performed her honors recital at 17, Elif was put on the streets by her mother shortly after that performance. Years of spiritual, physical, and emotional isolation led her to what she describes as “almost like a suicide thing”—addiction as a slow form of giving up.

But through spiritual intervention, energy medicine, and a deep commitment to understanding the science behind healing, Elif discovered that recovery isn’t about labeling yourself as an addict forever.

It’s about self-rediscovery.

Elif had the beautiful intention to start our conversation off with the sounds of a Tibetan bowl, but the audio suppression during our live portion made it difficult to hear. She recorded this audio separately and I wanted to include that here for you. Enjoy!

[05:28] The Path to Addiction: Rejection and Hopelessness at 17

Elif shares the devastating catalyst that led her to addiction—being rejected and abandoned by her mother immediately after her honors recital at age 17. The combination of abandonment and other life challenges created a sense of complete hopelessness that eventually led to cocaine use as a form of slow suicide.

* After her honors recital at 17, Elif’s mother decided she didn’t want her anymore and put her on the streets

* Her mother never really spoke with her again

* Combined with other challenges, this led Elif to lose all hope and sense of purpose

* She felt incredibly alone “in all ways, spiritual, physical, emotionally”

* Addiction became a form of slow suicide—a way of giving up on life

* This continued for three years until she was ready to make a different choice

Key Insight: “Addiction was just a way for me. It was almost like a suicide thing.” - Elif Ahmad

[06:40] Spiritual Awakening and Divine Guidance

During active addiction, Elif discovered psychic Sylvia Brown and became fascinated by spiritual connection. This curiosity led to a prayer that changed everything—and opened the door to spiritual guidance that would teach her how to heal without traditional treatment.

* While in active addiction, Elif watched psychic Sylvia Brown on Montel Williams and read her books

* She became interested in developing spiritual abilities and connecting with the non-physical world

* One day she prayed to “mother God” (the feminine aspect of creator): “I just really don’t want to do this anymore. I’m ready to move on.”

* She truly felt ready in her heart

* Within 24 hours, her desire for cocaine completely stopped—”it was like any cords that were attaching me to addiction had been removed”

* The non-physical world then taught her how to replace nutrients depleted during addiction

* She made a promise to Spirit: “If you show me how to heal, I will go on and show others what you have shown me”

* Spent the next 14 years researching allopathic medicine, holistic medicine, naturopathic medicine, energy medicine, mind-body-spirit connection, and meditation

Key Insight: “There is so much help and so much love and support, unconditional love and support from the non-physical realm that is waiting for you. And all you need to do is ask.” - Elif Ahmad

[08:16] The Shower Experience: Choosing Transformation

Elif describes the pivotal moment in the shower where she felt the walls closing in and knew she had to make a conscious choice between continuing on her destructive path or opening herself to transformation and healing. This moment of surrender became the turning point of her life.

* While in the shower one night, Elif felt the walls closing in on her

* She intuitively knew she had to make a decision: continue her current path or open to transformation

* She turned her palms over and said: “Universe, please help me heal from this”

* In that instant, she felt what felt like a warm blanket being put on her shoulders

* In the depth of her physical heart, “it was like two chain links just reconnecting”

* Her life was never the same from that moment

* This experience of unconditional love became the foundation of her understanding that we are never truly alone

Key Insight: “I broke down and bawled my eyes out in that moment because the unconditional love that I felt was something I had never experienced on this physical earth plane by anyone.” - Elif Ahmad

[11:59] Beyond the Medical Model: Epigenetics and Real Healing

Elif boldly challenges the traditional addiction treatment model, arguing it’s designed to keep customers rather than create healing. She explains the revolutionary science of epigenetics—that we are literally above our genetic expressions, meaning if a trigger created a disease state, we have the power to heal it.

* The current approach to recovery is based on old science and a medical model “intended to keep customers”

* Newer sciences (epigenetics, neuroscience, neuroplasticity, energy medicine, science of sound) prove we are far more powerful than we believe

* Everything we say and think bounces back into our subconscious and affects biology at the cellular level

* Every state of disease is a gene expression triggered by something unresolved

* Must address thought patterns and unresolved traumas

* The trigger is never physical—it’s always emotional/spiritual

Key Insight: “Addiction is not who you are. You are far greater. And your purpose on this earth plane is waiting for you to connect with it.” - Elif Ahmad

[16:42] Sound, Frequency, and Voice as Healing Tools

Elif explains her understanding of disease as disharmony in the body’s frequencies, why alcohol is called “spirits,” and how our voice is our most powerful tool for healing—connecting ancient wisdom with modern physics and practical application.

* The body is made of frequencies and sounds

* Your voice is your most powerful tool—we can literally talk ourselves into or out of anything

* Need to be mindful of self-talk—use your voice to lift yourself up, motivate, encourage, and inspire yourself

* Why alcohol is called “spirits”: addiction (alcohol, drugs, gambling, anything) lowers our frequency

* In a low vibrational state, we attract people and situations that are not good

* Any state of disease is a chance to rediscover who we really are, claim our authentic self, and step into our power

Key Insight: “All recovery is, friends, is self-rediscovery. That’s it.” - Elif Ahmad

[30:14] Returning to Childlike Wonder and Spiritual Connection

Elif explains the neuroscience of childhood programming and makes a powerful case for returning to the childlike qualities of openness, curiosity, resilience, and spiritual connection that we lose as we grow older and accumulate layers of trauma and conditioning.

* The Theta State: Up until age 7, we operate in a theta wave state (like the meditation brain wave state—a much slower frequency)

* When we were little and fell down, we just got back up

* Instead of dusting ourselves off when we fall, it becomes something way more intense, and we struggle

* There is “so much more support and love than we see with our physical eyes”

Key Insight: “Jesus, or as I call him, Yeshua, you know, said you need to be childlike. And in a sense that we need to be open and curious and have that sense of wonder again.” - Elif Ahmad

Key Quotes

“Addiction was just a way for me. It was almost like a suicide thing.” - Elif Ahmad

“I really felt that in my heart that I was ready and not even 24 hours later, boom, it just stopped. I didn’t want it anymore.” - Elif Ahmad

“I broke down and bawled my eyes out in that moment because the unconditional love that I felt was something I had never experienced on this physical earth plane by anyone.” - Elif Ahmad

“There is so much help and so much love and support, unconditional love and support from the non-physical realm that is waiting for you. And all you need to do is ask.” - Elif Ahmad

“Addiction is not who you are. You are far greater. And your purpose on this earth plane is waiting for you to connect with it.” - Elif Ahmad

“All recovery is, friends, is self-rediscovery. That’s it.” - Elif Ahmad

“You are loved. You are powerful. You are amazing. You are absolutely beautiful souls. You just need to remember that.” - Elif Ahmad

Resources Mentioned

* Books:

* “Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself” by Dr. Joe Dispenza (neuroscience, quantum physics, gene expression)

* “Resonant Currents” by Wisdom House Publishing (understanding energy and frequency)

* Spiritual Teachers:

* Sylvia Brown (psychic who appeared on Montel Williams)

* Sciences/Fields:

* Epigenetics

* Neuroscience and neuroplasticity

* Energy medicine

* Sound healing/science of sound

* Healing Modalities:

* Reiki

* Sound healing with Tibetan bowls and tuning forks

* Hypnosis

Where to Find Elif Ahmad

* Facebook: Musical Life

* Email: [email protected]

* Facebook Messenger: Available for questions and further conversation about topics discussed

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Jessica Drapluk, James Martin | Made By James, Noelle Richards and everyone who joined us live for this conversation, and to Elif Ahmad for her extraordinary compassion and wisdom. Your presence and engagement make these conversations possible.

Your Non-Traditional Path Might Be Waiting

Elif’s story reveals something essential: recovery doesn’t have to follow someone else’s script. Whether your path includes spiritual practice, creative expression, traditional treatment, or something entirely your own—what matters is that you’re ready to choose transformation.

If you’re sensing that alcohol is blocking your creative potential and personal growth, The Sober Creative Method™ offers a structured 90-day journey designed specifically for those looking to create a new path. Using the RELEASE → CREATE → BECOME framework, you’ll discover what’s possible when you remove alcohol as the barrier to your greatest work.

This isn’t about fitting into someone else’s definition of recovery—it’s about finding your own path home to yourself.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.

When the work of being seen becomes more important than the comfort of staying hidden

Inge van de Graaf lives above a bar. Not near one—above one. The ground floor of her home is De Amer, a cultural cafe and music venue with velvet curtains, a fully stocked bar, and decades of history. For a woman navigating sobriety, this might sound like an impossible setup. But for Inge, a trauma therapist and medicine woman from the Netherlands, it became the perfect teacher.

Inge spent most of her life terrified of being seen. She named her practice after a tree because it felt safer than using her own name. She called herself a regression therapist because it was explainable, professional, contained. But the work she actually does goes far deeper—guiding people across thresholds from conscious problems to unconscious origins, from who they think they should be to who they actually are. When she finally stepped into her truth as a medicine woman and gatekeeper, the fear of rejection showed up louder than ever.

In this conversation, Inge shares her journey from a bottle of whiskey waiting on the counter every night to choosing clarity over comfort. From a throat cancer diagnosis that forced her to face what she’d been suppressing to living above the very place where others gather to drink. This isn’t a story about willpower. It’s about what becomes possible when you stop performing safety and start living from a place of intentional choice.

Show Notes

[03:22] The Beginning: A Bottle of Sherry at 14

Inge traces her drinking history back to age 14, when she bought herself a bottle of sherry while her parents were away for the weekend. She found it disgusting but drank it anyway. Over the years, her relationship with alcohol shifted—sometimes she didn’t drink at all, and other times she used it to numb herself when life felt too challenging or she was deeply unhappy.

Key takeaways:

* Early drinking wasn’t about enjoying alcohol but about the effect it produced

* Periods of not drinking alternated with periods of using alcohol to cope

* The pattern of numbing uncomfortable feelings established early

Key Insight: “A fear of being visible and not living the life that I would like for myself. And this would show up as an uneasiness in me.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[05:11] The Performance of Safety: Hiding in Plain Sight

While married with two young children and working as a housewife, Inge kept telling herself she was happy and that this was the life she chose. But deep down, she knew it wasn’t how she was meant to live. Rather than being honest with herself, she used alcohol to avoid feeling the discomfort of living inauthentically.

Key takeaways:

* Alcohol became a tool to avoid confronting the gap between her real life and her desired life

* The things she truly wanted to do required visibility and showing up authentically

* Fear of being visible kept her trapped in a life that didn’t fit

Key Insight: “With things that I really wanted to do, I would have to be visible. I would have to show up. And, yeah, that was so scary that I just was not going to do that.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[06:42] The Wake-Up Call: Throat Cancer and the Truth

Nine and a half years ago, Inge was diagnosed with a throat tumor. When the oncologist asked if she drank, she lied and said “the odd glass.” In reality, she always had a bottle of whiskey ready and was drinking far more than was healthy while still functioning in her job and family life. This diagnosis made her realize that alcohol likely contributed to the tumor, and that the tumor itself was connected to not expressing herself—keeping everything “just below the throat.”

Key takeaways:

* The physical manifestation appeared in the very place connected to self-expression

* Inge recognized the connection between suppressing her voice and the throat tumor

* She was a high-functioning drinker who maintained all external responsibilities

* The diagnosis forced her to see the truth she’d been avoiding

Key Insight: “I also realized that when things show up here, it has to do with expressing oneself. I wasn’t expressing myself. I was keeping everything, well, just below the throat. I wouldn’t speak up. I wouldn’t say what I really wanted. I was making myself small. Drinking was a way of coping with that.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[09:05] Living Above the Bar: An Unexpected Teacher

For over eight years, Inge has lived directly above De Amer, a bar in her home. When she first joined The Sober Creative Reset, she walked past shelves of liquor every single day. Rather than seeing this as an obstacle, she began to see it as an opportunity to practice. The bar is run by her partner, and being present there—sitting at the bar, having conversations while others drink—became part of her sobriety journey rather than a threat to it.

Key takeaways:

* Living above a bar forced daily confrontation with alcohol rather than avoidance

* She learned to be present in spaces where alcohol is consumed without drinking

* The environment became a practice ground for confidence in her choice

* Her partner’s support made the living situation workable

Key Insight: “It’s a great practice to just be present at the bar and be okay with them drinking and me not drinking. And after going through this past month, I even have more confidence in that. Like, this is my choice. I’m not drinking. I don’t need to and I don’t want to.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[14:29] From Hiding to Medicine Woman: Reclaiming Her Identity

For years, Inge hid her true work behind safer, more explainable titles. She named her practice Thuja (after a tree) because using her own name felt too vulnerable. She called herself a regression therapist because it was professional and contained. About a year ago, she made the shift—changed her business name to Praktijk van Inge and started calling herself what she actually is: a medicine woman, gatekeeper, and guide.

Key takeaways:

* Fear of rejection was her lifelong theme, showing up in how she presented her work

* Using a tree name and clinical titles kept her safe but inauthentic

* Stepping into her truth as a medicine woman required confronting deep fears

* The work she does—guiding people through plant medicine ceremonies and deep subconscious healing—deserves to be named accurately

Key Insight: “I was terrified of being rejected. And I see that at work as well. And I named my business after a tree, the Thuja, because that felt less vulnerable than using my own name.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[18:12] The Support System: Partnership and Community

Inge’s partner also participated in The Sober Creative Reset, creating a shared experience that strengthened both their individual journeys and their relationship. This mutual support proved especially powerful when planning their upcoming vacation—for the first time, they looked at each other and decided together not to pack bottles of whiskey and wine for the trip.

Key takeaways:

* Having a partner who participates creates accountability and shared experience

* Previous vacations always included bringing alcohol as a given

* Making the choice together to leave alcohol behind felt like a significant milestone

* Community support through the reset experience provided additional reinforcement

Key Insight: “Previous holidays would always be have a bottle of whiskey, have a few bottles of wine with us. And this time we looked at each other and said, what are we going to do? And both of us went, uh-uh. We’ll leave them where they are in the store and have a holiday without alcohol. So that’s a big difference, yeah.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[18:30] Creative Expression: Shields from Ceremony

Inge creates felt shields that hang on the wall behind her, made after significant ceremonial experiences like sweat lodges or ayahuasca ceremonies. She works with wet felt and wool, building each piece from scratch using her hands, choosing colors intuitively. The process starts with an idea, but the work creates itself as she goes—never coming out exactly as she pictured it beforehand. After the felting process, she adds detail work with her sewing machine. These shields serve as visible representations of profound internal experiences.

Key takeaways:

* Creates art as a way to make special ceremonial experiences visible and tangible

* Works with wet felt and wool, building pieces entirely by hand from scratch

* The creative process is intuitive and organic, flowing beyond initial concepts

* Art serves as integration work, making internal transformation external

Key Insight: “When I have certain experiences that are very special to me, usually they have to do with some kind of ceremony. It could either be a sweat lodge or plant medicine. I like to make something out of it, to have it visible.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[26:57] What Fills the Space: Creativity Returns

When asked what occupied the time previously spent drinking, Inge described returning to walking and her Qigong practice—things she knew were important but often deprioritized when caught in the cycle of thinking she needed to do other “more important” things. Most notably, she started drawing again in the evenings for relaxation. She summarized the shift simply: “Creativity definitely started to flow again.”

Key takeaways:

* Physical practices like walking and Qigong replaced evening drinking

* Drawing returned as a creative outlet and source of evening relaxation

* The tendency to deprioritize self-care diminished without alcohol

* Creativity flourished in the space that opened up

Key Insight: “I started drawing again so that’s you know in the evenings for relaxation I love that stuff...creativity definitely started to flow again.” - Inge Van De Graaf

[31:46] The Research Shows: Consciousness Matters More Than Perfection

Inge referenced a research program called Christy that tracked participants’ drinking behavior through questionnaires once or twice a year. The outcome wasn’t that everyone quit drinking altogether, but that most people were drinking less and were more conscious of alcohol and the role it played in their lives. This perspective shift emphasizes awareness and intentionality over absolute abstinence.

Key takeaways:

* Research supports that increased consciousness around alcohol creates lasting change

* Complete abstinence isn’t the only measure of success

* Awareness of alcohol’s role in life leads to more intentional choices

* Regular check-ins and resets throughout the year compound the impact

Key Insight: “One of the outcomes of the program was that definitely not everybody quit drinking altogether, but most of the people were drinking less, and they were more conscious of alcohol and the role it played in their lives. So when you’re doing these resets throughout the year, imagine what an impact that can have.” - Inge Van De Graaf

Key Quotes

“A fear of being visible and not living the life that I would like for myself. And this would show up as an uneasiness in me.” - Inge Van De Graaf

“I also realized that when things show up here, it has to do with expressing oneself. I wasn’t expressing myself. I was keeping everything, well, just below the throat. I wouldn’t speak up. I wouldn’t say what I really wanted. I was making myself small. Drinking was a way of coping with that.” - Inge Van De Graaf

“With things that I really wanted to do, I would have to be visible. I would have to show up. And, yeah, that was so scary that I just was not going to do that.” - Inge Van De Graaf

“It’s a great practice to just be present at the bar and be okay with them drinking and me not drinking. And after going through this past month, I even have more confidence in that. Like, this is my choice. I’m not drinking. I don’t need to and I don’t want to.” - Inge Van De Graaf

“I started drawing again so that’s you know in the evenings for relaxation I love that stuff...creativity definitely started to flow again.” - Inge Van De Graaf

Resources Mentioned

* De Reis naar Binnen - Inge’s practice name, meaning “the journey inward”

* Praktijk van Inge - Inge’s current business name

* Christy Research Program - Referenced study tracking alcohol consciousness and behavior changes

* Qigong - Movement practice Inge returned to during the reset

* The Sober Creative Reset - 31-day program Inge participated in

Where to Find Inge Van De Graaf

Inge Van De Graaf is a trauma therapist, medicine woman, and gatekeeper practicing in the forests of Drenthe, Netherlands. She works with regression therapy, plant medicine ceremonies, and deep subconscious healing through her practice, Praktijk van Inge.

Website and contact information available upon request for those interested in her work.

Thank You

A heartfelt thank you to Paul Overton, Rachel Connor, Noelle Richards, Phil Powis ❤️⚡️, Carolina Wilke and to everyone who joined us live for this conversation. A special thank you to Inge van de Graaf for her extraordinary courage and honesty. Your willingness to be visible makes these conversations possible.

Your Turn: The Sober Creative Reset

If Inge’s story resonates with you—if you recognize yourself in the gap between who you’re presenting and who you actually are, or if you’re curious about what might shift when you remove alcohol from the equation for 31 days—the next Sober Creative Reset launches in April.

This isn’t about willpower or perfection. It’s not about labeling yourself or committing to forever. It’s about creating space to see what’s actually there when you’re not numbing, performing, or staying small.

The reset includes daily prompts designed to be short and actionable, weekly group calls with guided meditations, and a community of individuals exploring the same territory. Some participants stop drinking entirely. Others drink less. All of them become more conscious of the role alcohol plays in their lives.

Discover what becomes possible when you stop creating life through a filter. Let’s explore that together.