The Space In-Between

Some guests bring a story. Jean Passanante brought decades of them.

In this episode of The Space In-Between, I sit down with Jean Passanante, retired Emmy-winning television writer, four-time Emmy winner, and eight-time Writers Guild Award winner, whose storytelling shaped some of daytime television's most iconic moments on One Life to Live, All My Children, General Hospital, and As the World Turns.

But Jean's own story is just as layered as anything she ever wrote for the screen. She was part of the first group of women admitted to Dartmouth, where she was literally hosed down on her first day of classes for daring to show up in a space that wasn't built for her. She acted in John Sayles' groundbreaking independent film The Return of the Secaucus 7 before realizing her real love was working behind the curtain, not in front of the camera. She fought to keep nonprofit theater honest at New York Theater Workshop, launching a Director's Project that changed careers and lives. And she found her defining moment writing for soap opera, where she helped shape some of the boldest, most controversial storylines in daytime history, including the Billy Douglas story, one of the first gay teen storylines on television, and the deeply complicated legacy of Todd Manning.

Jean and I talk about writing morally gray characters, what soap opera taught her about real-life resilience, and how, like me, she now carries the title of widow into her next chapter, one that's found her a new address in Italy.

This conversation moves through so many spaces in-between: between genders in a room that wasn't built for you, between the writer's room and the real world, between who a character starts as and who they become. I think you're going to love sitting with us in this one.

In This Episode:

• What it was really like being part of Dartmouth's first co-ed class 
• How Jean's early love of theater and dramaturgy shaped her as a writer
• Acting in John Sayles' The Return of the Secaucus 7 and how the indie film industry has changed
• Fighting to keep nonprofit theater true to its mission at New York Theater Workshop
• The defining moment that led Jean from nonprofit theater into network soap opera writing
• Writing the Billy Douglas story, one of daytime TV's first gay teen storylines
• The complicated legacy of Todd Manning and how Jean and her fellow writers handled a rape storyline with intention
• Why the most interesting characters live in the gray, and how Jean channels powerful women in her own life

Resources: 

• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 
• Jean Passanante’s Wikipedia Entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Passanante 
• Jean Passanante’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jean-passanante-407b8a1b 
• Jean Passanante’s IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0664799/
  
  

In this episode of The Space In-Between, Dinine sits down with Aimee Kandrac. Aimee is the co-founder of What Friends Do, host of the What Friends Do: Kitchen Chats podcast, and a fierce advocate for women through her work with Women for Change Indiana. She's also the first female founder in Indiana to raise over $500,000 in venture capital. Together, Dinine and Aimee talk about what it really means to show up for someone in crisis, and what happens when you're suddenly the one who needs the help.

Aimee shares the deeply personal story behind What Friends Do. Her mom and sister were coordinating care and information for her sister's best friend, who was 25 and facing a terminal brain cancer diagnosis. Aimee realized that same structure could help countless other families navigate life's hardest moments. She and Dinine also talk candidly about the uphill climb of raising venture funding as a woman. Aimee was the first female founder to ever pitch to some Indiana VC groups. They discuss why investing in women-owned businesses, not just donating to them, is the mindset shift that's needed to close the gap.

Then the conversation turns deeply personal. Over the course of about six weeks, Aimee became an empty nester, was diagnosed with a tumor in her ovary, and learned her marriage was ending. Through it all, she was quietly falling apart behind closed doors. She and Dinine talk honestly about grief without a road map. They cover the friends who became her "oxygen mask," the journaling that helped her find her way toward a new life and a new home, and the workshop she's now building, Love Letters, to help people plan ahead of time how they want to be cared for during a crisis.

This episode is a reminder that there are no rules for grief, for rebuilding, or for asking for help. There's only the people you let in, and the light you find once you stop pretending you're fine.

Key Takeaways:

• What Friends Do was born out of Aimee's family coordinating support for a 25-year-old family friend's terminal cancer diagnosis, and grew into a platform that helps people give and receive meaningful, practical help during life's hardest moments.
• Aimee was the first female founder in Indiana to close $500,000+ in venture capital funding, pitching to VC groups that had never had a woman pitch to them before.
• Investing in women-owned businesses, not just donating to them, is one of the most powerful ways to shift the structural funding gap for female founders.
• Within about six weeks, Aimee became an empty nester, was diagnosed with an ovarian tumor, and learned her marriage was ending, and found her footing by leaning on a small, trusted circle of people.
• There are no rules for grief or rebuilding, only your own timeline and the "oxygen masks" (people, routines, small joys) that help you breathe again.
• Aimee is developing a new workshop called Love Letters, designed to help people document ahead of time how they want to be supported and cared for during a crisis, right alongside estate and financial planning.

Resources: 

• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 
• What Friends Do (Aimee Kandrac): https://whatfriendsdo.com 
• What Friends Do: Kitchen Chats podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/whatfriendsdo-kitchen-chats/id1652821261 
• Women for Change Indiana: https://www.women4changeindiana.org/ 

Friends, we have a such a very special episode that we had hoped would be ready by today, but alas.

In an effort to make sure it's perfect and up to our standards we need just a little more time.

In the meantime, a reissue of an audience favorite with  Graham Wilkerson.

Enjoy!

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Life creates many in-between moments. Sometimes those moments look like: staring at broken drywall and hanging lights in a thousand-square-foot former law office, wondering if you just made the biggest mistake of your life. In this inspiring episode of The Space In-Between, I sit down with my neighbor, gym owner, and fellow Teddy Roosevelt admirer, Graham Wilkerson, founder of Genesis Sports Performance and Athlete Lead Engine.

Graham's story isn't just about building a successful fitness business—it's about grit, sacrifice, and the deep personal belief it takes to create something meaningful when the outcome is completely uncertain. From emptying his bank account as a 23-year-old history major with zero industry experience, to working 60-hour weeks while watching his friends get married and go on vacations, Graham shares the raw reality of entrepreneurship that most people don't talk about.

We dive into the moment his now-wife Shelby paid for his St. Bernard's emergency surgery because he couldn't afford it—and how that became the wake-up call that changed everything. Graham opens up about nearly quitting, partnering with his former competitor Dale Speckman, surviving COVID, and how the Teddy Roosevelt quote "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, and difficulty" became so foundational to his journey that he had it tattooed on his chest.

Whether you're building a business, navigating a career transition, or simply trying to find your footing during an uncertain season, this conversation offers powerful insights on staying the course when the future feels impossible to see.

Key Takeaways:

• How embracing discomfort and uncertainty can become the foundation for lasting success
• The importance of finding business partners who complement your strengths, even former competitors
• Why the "soft skills" of relationship-building matter more than technical expertise in service industries
• How becoming a parent can clarify your purpose and reshape your priorities
• The concerning trend of youth athlete over-specialization and what parents can do about it

Resources:

• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/
• Dinine's website: https://dininesig.com/
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig
• Genesis Sports Performance: https://genesissportsperformance.com/
• Graham Wilkerson's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/graham-wilkerson-33656451//
  
  

What does joy actually look like when your world feels heavy? And what does it mean to lead, not just at work, but in your home, your community, and your own life? Friends, I had such a rich and honest conversation sitting down with Gretchen Schott at The Engine Room in Broad Ripple, and I can tell you, I walked away with things I'm still processing.

Gretchen Schott is a leadership expert and executive coach with more than 30 years of experience helping leaders build confidence, trust, and impact. She is the founder of Leading Well, the chief learning officer at Threefold, and host of the Made for Impact podcast, with a brand-new podcast, Leading Well, on the way. But beyond her credentials, Gretchen is a woman who has walked through deep loss, professional transition, and the very human work of learning to love herself, and she brings every bit of that into what she teaches.

In this episode, Gretchen opens up about one of the most devastating experiences of her life: the loss of her father to suicide. She shares how she chose to remember him not by the way he died, but by the way he lived, and how being "loved well" by friends, family, and coworkers in the aftermath of that loss became the seed of her entire philosophy on leadership and joy.

We talk about the difference between management and leadership (and no, they are not the same thing, Joseph Rost's work on this genuinely blew both of our minds), why joy isn't something you find but something you create, and what it looks like to do the hard inner work of a "highlight reel" or "cleaning the windshield" when life feels overwhelming. Gretchen also shares her word of the year, humility, and the prayer called the Litany of Humility that stopped me cold and sent me back to re-read it three times.

I also shared some of my own story in this one, including what resentment taught me about grief, what a cardinal outside my window had to do with gratitude, and how I finally learned what loving myself actually means. Gretchen and I are very much on the same page: without hope, the world is lost. And as Langston Hughes said, if dreams die, life becomes a frozen barren field of snow.

We close with the one text Gretchen would send to every leader in the world, and it is three words. I co-signed it immediately.

Key Takeaways: 

• Joy is not something you stumble upon, it is something you actively cultivate through self-knowledge, self-love, and intentional practice. 
• Leadership and management are not the same thing. Leadership is about influence, not authority, and everyone, including stay-at-home parents, is a leader. 
• The Highlight Reel exercise: identify three to five moments in your life where you felt most proud, supported, and alive, then invite the people who love you to add to that reel. You may be surprised by the words they have for you. 
• Cleaning the Windshield: when you are overwhelmed, write down what is most taxing, identify what brings joy versus what drains your soul, and ask honestly, what can I delegate? What can I let go of? 
• Gratitude is where you start when joy feels impossible. Sometimes you dig for a cardinal outside the window. That is enough. 
• Humility and confidence can coexist, but pride in disguise will quietly sap your joy and distance you from the people you are trying to serve. 
• Being loved well in grief does not require grand gestures. A text that says "I'm thinking of you" or a story about someone who is gone, that is gold.

Resources: 

• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 
• Gretchen Schott’s Website: https://www.gretchenschott.com/ 
• Gretchen Schott’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gretchenschott 
• Made for Impact Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/made-for-impact/id1628873464 
• Leadership Excercises: https://www.gretchenschott.com/leadership-exercises
• Leading Well Podcast: https://www.gretchenschott.com/leading-well-podcast
• The Book: https://www.gretchenschott.com/shop
• Grow Threefold: https://www.growthreefold.com/growu

Friends, this was such a popular episode I felt like it needed a second go-round, giving you all another chance to tell YOUR friends. 

Please enjoy and spread the word.

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What happens when Indiana's podcasting community calls in with their most burning questions? You get one of the most candid, heartfelt, and surprisingly fun episodes of The Space In-Between yet. 

In this special call-in episode, I opened my mic to fellow Indiana-based podcast hosts — and what followed was a genuine, wide-ranging conversation that gave my listeners a chance to know me a little better. From self-care rituals and music that heals, to the great New York City vs. Indianapolis debate, to my very real feelings about Juan Soto leaving the Yankees — we covered it all. 

Kelly Young of the Badass Free Life Podcast kicked things off by asking about self-care, a question that I think we all need to sit with more often. I talked through the five pillars I try to live by — physical health, mental health, emotional health, social connection, and self-love — and was honest about the things I'm still working on, like sleep. I also shared something I've come to believe deeply: being your own best promoter isn't arrogance. It's survival. It's healing. It's how you stop letting someone else's narrative define you.

Nate Spangel from the Get In Podcast asked me about the differences — and surprising similarities — between New York City and Indianapolis. Spoiler: local pride runs just as deep in Indiana as it does in the five boroughs, and this New York girl has become a diehard Indiana Fever fan.

The women of Book Talk Trio wanted to know what I'd want in a book podcast — and as a widow, an attorney, a baseball lover, and someone who has walked through grief, I had a lot to say. The Mosaics Podcast's Nick shared a beautiful reflection on what it means to make your guests shine, and it sparked a real conversation about the intentionality behind every single episode of this show. Amy Kandra from Kitchen Chat asked about my pre-show rituals and got me thinking about new ways to welcome guests into the space. Josh Gillespie from Voices of Indy asked about music — and I could have talked about Billy Joel, Frank Sinatra, and Eminem for another hour.

And yes — Chewy from the League Mates asked about fantasy football team names and Juan Soto. I have opinions. Strong ones.

This episode is a little lighter, a little playful, and a lot real. That's the space in between, friends — even the funny questions hold something worth looking at.

Key Takeaways:

• True self-care covers five dimensions: physical health, mental health, emotional health, social connection, and self-compassion — and all five require intentional practice.
• Becoming your own best friend and biggest promoter is one of the most powerful things you can do, especially after someone else has tried to define your narrative.
• Music can serve as a bridge from darkness to light — whether that's Billy Joel's balance of melancholy and hope, Frank Sinatra's old-school resilience, or Eminem's relentless fire.
• Strong local pride and community connection show up in both New York City and Indianapolis — just in different flavors.
• Great podcast guests deserve a judgment-free zone, intentional preparation, and the chance to walk away feeling like their story mattered.

Featured Indiana Podcasters:

• Badassery Life Podcast — Kelly Young
• Get In. Podcast — Nate Spangel
• Book Talk Trio — Lanikka and co-hosts
• The League Mates — Chewy
• WhatFriendsDo: Kitchen Chats  — Aimee Kandrac
• Voices of Indy — Josh Gillespie
• Mosaics Minds Podcast — Nick Williams
  
  

Resources: 

• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/
• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 

Some conversations just settle into you differently. This is one of them.

Friends, today I'm sitting across from two people who touched my life long before they ever knew it. Rick Wagner first showed up in my world through his daily scripture reflections on Facebook, steady, grounding posts that kept appearing during one of the darkest seasons of my life. I reached out to a man I barely knew and asked if he would meet with me. He said yes. That quiet act of presence changed things for me. And today, he and his wife Carol are here to share their story with all of you.

Rick is a permanent deacon at St. Pius X Parish and president of Guerin Catholic High School. Carol is an artist, a woman of deep faith, a cancer survivor, and someone who has been choosing joy in ways that will genuinely stop you in your tracks. Together, they've been married 42 years, raised four children, welcomed 10 grandchildren, served in mission work in El Salvador for over 20 years, and last year, they walked through Carol's uterine cancer diagnosis together.

What unfolds in this episode is one of the most honest, tender, and faith-filled conversations I've had on this show. We talk about what it means to be a sacramental presence for someone you love: literally revealling grace to the people around you, even in the middle of your own suffering. We talk about Carol's prayer "Lead me, Lord," and what it actually looked like to live that surrender in real time. And we talk about the haircutting party. If you don't know that story yet, just wait. I dare you not to cry.

Carol also shares her pilgrimage to Lourdes as a malad, a sick person seeking healing, and what it felt like to have strangers wash her feet while a choir sang her name. We talk about learning to receive love when everything in you wants to push it away. And we talk about the beautiful, uncertain, slightly terrifying space they're in right now: downsizing, simplifying, and moving onto their daughter Laura's property, not as a surrender, but as a next chapter.

If you are in a dark place right now, if you're in a transition, if you're asking "who am I now?" I made this episode for you. Because joy isn't the absence of hardship. It's the presence of grace inside it. Rick and Carol are living proof.

Key Takeaways:

• What it means to become a "sacramental presence" for someone you love during illness, and why Rick says Carol revealed Christ at every turn.
• Carol's prayer "Lead me, Lord," and how surrendering to faith kept her from slipping into anger and despair after her diagnosis.
• The haircutting party: how Carol protected her 10 grandchildren from fear by turning a devastating moment into a celebration.
• How learning to receive love from: a meal train, from hundreds of cards, from strangers at Lourdes, is its own form of spiritual work.
• What Carol experienced on her pilgrimage to Lourdes as a malad with the Order of Malta, and how it deepened her relationship with her daughter Laura and her sister-in-law.
• Why downsizing doesn't mean giving up and how simplicity has brought unexpected freedom.
• Rick and Carol's message on hope: it's always present, we just have to slow down enough to grasp it.

Resources: 

• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 
• Carol Wagner's Art: https://carol-wagner.square.site/ 
• St. Pius X Parish: https://spxparish.org/ 
• Guerin Catholic High School: https://www.guerincatholic.org/ 
• The Order of Malta — https://www.orderofmalta.int 
• Lourdes, France — https://www.lourdes-france.org 

What happens when Indiana's podcasting community calls in with their most burning questions? You get one of the most candid, heartfelt, and surprisingly fun episodes of The Space In-Between yet. 

In this special call-in episode, I opened my mic to fellow Indiana-based podcast hosts — and what followed was a genuine, wide-ranging conversation that gave my listeners a chance to know me a little better. From self-care rituals and music that heals, to the great New York City vs. Indianapolis debate, to my very real feelings about Juan Soto leaving the Yankees — we covered it all. 

Kelly Young of the Badass Free Life Podcast kicked things off by asking about self-care, a question that I think we all need to sit with more often. I talked through the five pillars I try to live by — physical health, mental health, emotional health, social connection, and self-love — and was honest about the things I'm still working on, like sleep. I also shared something I've come to believe deeply: being your own best promoter isn't arrogance. It's survival. It's healing. It's how you stop letting someone else's narrative define you.

Nate Spangel from the Get In Podcast asked me about the differences — and surprising similarities — between New York City and Indianapolis. Spoiler: local pride runs just as deep in Indiana as it does in the five boroughs, and this New York girl has become a diehard Indiana Fever fan.

The women of Book Talk Trio wanted to know what I'd want in a book podcast — and as a widow, an attorney, a baseball lover, and someone who has walked through grief, I had a lot to say. The Mosaics Podcast's Nick shared a beautiful reflection on what it means to make your guests shine, and it sparked a real conversation about the intentionality behind every single episode of this show. Amy Kandra from Kitchen Chat asked about my pre-show rituals and got me thinking about new ways to welcome guests into the space. Josh Gillespie from Voices of Indy asked about music — and I could have talked about Billy Joel, Frank Sinatra, and Eminem for another hour.

And yes — Chewy from the League Mates asked about fantasy football team names and Juan Soto. I have opinions. Strong ones.

This episode is a little lighter, a little playful, and a lot real. That's the space in between, friends — even the funny questions hold something worth looking at.

Key Takeaways:

• True self-care covers five dimensions: physical health, mental health, emotional health, social connection, and self-compassion — and all five require intentional practice.
• Becoming your own best friend and biggest promoter is one of the most powerful things you can do, especially after someone else has tried to define your narrative.
• Music can serve as a bridge from darkness to light — whether that's Billy Joel's balance of melancholy and hope, Frank Sinatra's old-school resilience, or Eminem's relentless fire.
• Strong local pride and community connection show up in both New York City and Indianapolis — just in different flavors.
• Great podcast guests deserve a judgment-free zone, intentional preparation, and the chance to walk away feeling like their story mattered.

Featured Indiana Podcasters:

• Badassery Life Podcast — Kelly Young
• Get In. Podcast — Nate Spangel
• Book Talk Trio — Lanikka and co-hosts
• The League Mates — Chewy
• WhatFriendsDo: Kitchen Chats  — Aimee Kandrac
• Voices of Indy — Josh Gillespie
• Mosaics Minds Podcast — Nick Williams
  
  

Resources: 

• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/
• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 

Parenting is one of the most profound spaces in-between any of us will ever occupy — and when your child is struggling with addiction, that space can feel impossibly vast and terrifyingly uncertain. In this deeply personal episode of The Space In-Between, I sit down with Dawn McCord, author of Chasing Carson and family recovery life coach, for a conversation that is honest, gritty, and ultimately full of hope.

Dawn shares the story of her family's journey through her son Carson's adolescent addiction — from those early, disorienting moments wondering if this was "just teenage experimentation," to the terrifying reality of street Xanax, overdoses, wilderness therapy, and the long, winding road to recovery. She wrote Chasing Carson, a raw and powerful memoir, during the COVID-19 pandemic — and the book became not just a record of her family's story, but an offering to every parent who has ever felt completely alone in the dark.

I open up about watching my late brother's drinking escalate as a teenager, and chasing my own daughter through her fair share of terrifying moments, as well as my "all is well" mantra that carried me through the hardest years of my husband's illness. The result is a conversation that doesn't flinch — and doesn't let you look away — but somehow leaves you feeling less alone.

Together, we explore the particular heartbreak of the in-between spaces in addiction: the moments of hope when things seem to be turning around, the crashes that follow, and the long, slow work of learning to stop chasing and start trusting. We talk about the "Okay" practice that helped Dawn stay grounded during moments of crisis, radical acceptance, the Mel Robbins "Let Them" theory (and why it's complicated when your child is a minor), and the difference between enabling and loving someone well.

Dawn also speaks to her work as a family recovery life coach — sharing what makes that role distinct from therapy or social work, and what she most wants parents to hear who are right now in the thick of it.

This one is for the moms and dads in the trenches. The ones who've had to put the book of someone else's life down for a minute just to catch their breath. The ones who are quietly saying okay to themselves before every conversation. You are not alone — and there is light even here.

Key Takeaways:

• The early signs of adolescent addiction can look a lot like "normal" teenage experimentation — and knowing the difference is harder than anyone tells you
• The in-between moments of addiction — between episodes, between rehabs, between hope and fear — are often the hardest spaces to sit with
• Saying "okay" is a powerful grounding tool that can interrupt the panic cycle and help you take the next step forward
• The "Let Them" philosophy has real limits when your child is a minor — and the goal isn't detachment, it's learning to love without losing yourself
• Recovery coaching focuses on helping families walk alongside their loved one without being attached to the outcome — and that includes doing your own work
• Carson's recovery taught Dawn one of her most important life lessons: trust that your child is capable, even when the evidence is hard to see

Resources: 

• Dinine's Website: https://dininesig.com/
• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/ 
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig 
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig 
• Dawn McCord's Coaching: https://www.adolescentaddictionandrecovery.com/ 
• Dawn McCord's book Chasing Carson: https://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Carson-Adolescence-Addiction-Recovery/dp/1662919867 
• Mel Robbins / "Let Them" Theory: https://melrobbins.com
• 127 Hours (film referenced by Dawn): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1542344/ 
• For King & Country / "God Only Knows": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5cPQg3oq-o 

Lastly, if you’re in the Indianapolis area on March 13th, and want to connect with like-minded women who are ready to challenge themselves and grow through the transitions in their lives. Stop by indyb3.com for tickets and information.

Life creates many in-between moments. Sometimes those moments look like: staring at broken drywall and hanging lights in a thousand-square-foot former law office, wondering if you just made the biggest mistake of your life. In this inspiring episode of The Space In-Between, I sit down with my neighbor, gym owner, and fellow Teddy Roosevelt admirer, Graham Wilkerson, founder of Genesis Sports Performance and Athlete Lead Engine.

Graham's story isn't just about building a successful fitness business—it's about grit, sacrifice, and the deep personal belief it takes to create something meaningful when the outcome is completely uncertain. From emptying his bank account as a 23-year-old history major with zero industry experience, to working 60-hour weeks while watching his friends get married and go on vacations, Graham shares the raw reality of entrepreneurship that most people don't talk about.

We dive into the moment his now-wife Shelby paid for his St. Bernard's emergency surgery because he couldn't afford it—and how that became the wake-up call that changed everything. Graham opens up about nearly quitting, partnering with his former competitor Dale Speckman, surviving COVID, and how the Teddy Roosevelt quote "Nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, and difficulty" became so foundational to his journey that he had it tattooed on his chest.

Whether you're building a business, navigating a career transition, or simply trying to find your footing during an uncertain season, this conversation offers powerful insights on staying the course when the future feels impossible to see.

To accompany today’s episode, Graham and I are extending a members-only promotion as a thank you to the current members of Genesis Gym. If you are a member of Genesis Gym and email the song title mentioned in a particularly emotional moment of the episode to [email protected] you will be entered to win a chance at a free month of gym membership.

Also, if you’d like to continue the conversation, join Dinine live in Indianapolis, March 13th, for the b3 Lab: Be Brave, Be Bold, Believe.

Key Takeaways:

• How embracing discomfort and uncertainty can become the foundation for lasting success
• The importance of finding business partners who complement your strengths, even former competitors
• Why the "soft skills" of relationship-building matter more than technical expertise in service industries
• How becoming a parent can clarify your purpose and reshape your priorities
• The concerning trend of youth athlete over-specialization and what parents can do about it

Resources:

• Dinine's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinine-sig-917784252/
• Dinine's website: https://dininesig.com/
• Dinine's Instagram: @dininesig
• Dinine's TikTok: @dinine.sig
• Genesis Sports Performance: https://genesissportsperformance.com/
• Graham Wilkerson's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/graham-wilkerson-33656451//
• indyb3.com join Dinine & friends for a day of self-discovery.

 What happens in the space in between? Who we were and who we are becoming? 

Well, season three of the space in between lives there. In the moments we don't plan for, but somehow show up anyway and change everything that comes next. 

This season, you'll hear from voices who have shaped culture and others who have reshaped lives. 

• A six time Emmy award-winning storyteller whose work has reached millions. 
• A James Beard honored visionary who built something extraordinary and chose to walk away to build something even deeper. 
• A mother who turned unimaginable loss into a story that continues to ripple outward. 
• A founder who dared to create something no one had done before and found belief when it mattered most. 
• A voice reminding us that joy isn't something we find at the end of work, but sometimes even within it.
• And a love story tested in the hardest of seasons showing us what it means to walk through the unimaginable together. 

And still there's more to come because the truth is the most meaningful stories don't begin when everything is figured out. They sometimes begin when things feel uncertain, when the path isn't clear or when something in us begins to shift. Sometimes in the moments we don't plan for, where everything can change. 

This is The Space In-Between: Season Three. Now Streaming.