The Spiritual Journey with Kris McGregor - A Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcast

What does it mean to grow deeper in prayer? St. Teresa of Avila gives us a simple answer: stay close to Jesus and learn to know him as a true friend.

In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects on St. Teresa’s teaching that even at the heights of contemplation, Christ remains the way. Prayer does not lead us beyond Jesus. It draws us into a deeper relationship with him.

St. Teresa speaks especially about the sacred humanity of Christ. Jesus is truly God and truly man, and his human life remains essential to our prayer. We come to know him by returning to the Gospel, watching how he receives people, how he prays, how he suffers, how he loves, and how he entrusts himself to the Father.

For St. Teresa, this is not simply a matter of studying the example of Jesus. It is friendship. Christ is the one who strengthens us, teaches us, accompanies us when we are troubled, and never abandons us.

She also reminds us that prayer should be lived in freedom. We do not have to manufacture spiritual experiences or compare our prayer with someone else’s. We place ourselves in God’s hands and allow him to lead.

At the heart of the reading is one of St. Teresa’s simplest and most beautiful insights: “love calls for love in return.” As we remember the love Christ has shown us and recognize his faithfulness in our own lives, prayer becomes our response to the love we have already received.

For anyone searching for a deeper spiritual life, St. Teresa points us toward a path that remains both simple and demanding: behold the life of Jesus, remember his love, keep him near, and allow friendship with Christ to deepen.

Excerpts from the English translation of The Liturgy of the Hours (Four Volumes), © 1974, International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.

Philippians 4:13, RSV-CE

John 15:15, RSV-CE

John 14:6, RSV-CE

1 John 4:19, RSV-CE

“If Christ Jesus dwells in a man as his friend and noble leader, that man can endure all things, for Christ helps and strengthens us and never abandons us. He is a true friend.”

“A person should desire no other path, even if he is at the summit of contemplation; on this road he walks safely.”

“All blessings come to us through our Lord. He will teach us, for in beholding his life we find that he is the best example.”

“Blessed is the one who truly loves him and always keeps him near.”

“For love calls for love in return.”

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How can the life of Jesus help us through fear, uncertainty, suffering, difficult decisions, waiting, loss, and hope?

In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects on a sermon from St. Bernard of Clairvaux and what it can teach us about contemplative prayer and the Holy Rosary.

St. Bernard says that Christ dwells within our hearts, our memory, our understanding, and even our imagination. Although Bernard lived before the Rosary developed into the form familiar to us today, his reflection helps us understand why returning prayerfully to the life of Jesus can become such an important part of the spiritual journey.

When we stay with the Gospel, the events in Jesus’ life begin to speak into our own circumstances. Gethsemane can accompany us when we’re afraid of what lies ahead. The carrying of the Cross can speak to burdens we never chose. Cana can teach us something about trust when we cannot yet see what Jesus is going to do. The Resurrection can bring hope into places where we see no clear way forward.

The Rosary gives us a way to return to these moments in the life of Jesus through prayer. Memory recalls what happened, our understanding considers what it reveals, the imagination helps us remain with the Gospel scene, and the heart begins to respond.

Mary is an important companion in this prayer because this was also her spiritual journey. She received Christ, lived beside him, pondered what she did not yet understand, remained with him at the Cross, and waited in prayer with the disciples for the Holy Spirit. Her words at Cana continue to direct us toward her Son: “Do whatever he tells you.”

For those who have prayed the Rosary for many years, this episode is an invitation to enter a familiar prayer more deeply. For those who have never prayed it, come from another Christian tradition, or are simply searching spiritually, it offers a way to understand how contemplating the life of Jesus can become a genuine encounter with Christ and with the grace he offers in every season of life.

As St. Bernard writes:

“Whatever of all this I consider, it is God I am considering; in all this he is my God.”

Excerpts from the English translation of The Liturgy of the Hours (Four Volumes), © 1974, International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.

Luke 2:19, RSV-CE

“But Mary kept all these things, pondering them in her heart.”

John 2:5, RSV-CE

“His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’”

“It is by faith that he dwells in our hearts, in our memory, our intellect, and penetrates even into our imagination.”

“How can we not contemplate this story in truth, piety, and holiness?”

“Whatever of all this I consider, it is God I am considering; in all this, he is my God.”

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What happens when we’re trying to remain faithful to God, but instead of peace we encounter darkness, fear, temptation, sadness, or a sense that Jesus has become hidden?

In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects on a powerful letter from St. Pius of Pietrelcina, better known as Padre Pio. Drawing on the image of a builder preparing stones for an eternal dwelling, Padre Pio describes God as the divine Artificer who uses the hammer and chisel to shape the soul. The trials he names are deeply familiar: darkness, fears, temptations, sadness of spirit, spiritual anxiety, and even bodily suffering.

Padre Pio does not dismiss the pain of these experiences. Instead, he teaches the soul not to immediately interpret suffering, dryness, or hiddenness as evidence that God has withdrawn. God may be doing a deeper work that we cannot yet see, purifying the heart, strengthening fidelity, and teaching us to trust him beyond what we feel.

His counsel also becomes a lesson in discernment. Not every doubt should automatically be trusted. Some questions need prayer and wise counsel, while others simply circle within us, wearing down hope and tempting us to abandon something good. Padre Pio urges the soul: “Do not lose heart!”

That counsel is echoed in another of his best-known sayings: “Pray, hope, and don’t worry.” Prayer reminds us that we do not carry our lives alone. Hope rests in the faithfulness of God, who keeps his promises even when we cannot see how they will be fulfilled. And refusing to surrender to worry means remembering that God is greater than our understanding and greater than whatever we are facing.

At the heart of Padre Pio’s letter is a beautiful invitation to trust:

“Whenever Jesus shows himself, give him thanks. If he hides, give him thanks: all are touches of his love.”

The spiritual journey eventually asks us to trust God not only when his presence feels near, but also when we must walk by faith. We may not know what God is doing, but we know who he is.

Excerpts from the English translation of The Liturgy of the Hours (Four Volumes) © 1974, International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.

1 Peter 2:4–5, RSV-CE

“Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God’s sight chosen and precious; and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house.”

Proverbs 24:16, RSV-CE

“For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again.”

St. Pius of Pietrelcina

“With unceasing blows of healing chisel and careful stripping away, the divine Artificer seeks to prepare stones to build an eternal dwelling.”

“Get rid of, as temptations, the doubts that assail you.”

“Whenever Jesus shows himself, give him thanks. If he hides, give him thanks: all are touches of his love.”

“Pray, hope, and don’t worry.”

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What happens when something God has given us begins to stir fear, self-doubt, anxiety, or even pride?

In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects on St. Hildegard of Bingen’s remarkable counsel to St. Elisabeth of Schönau. Elisabeth, herself a Benedictine nun and mystic, was troubled by what was happening around her spiritual experiences. One of the first lessons in her story is easy to miss: when she became concerned, she sought wise spiritual counsel rather than trying to discern everything alone.

That choice reflects the Benedictine roots shared by both women. The Holy Rule begins by calling the disciple to listen “with the ear of the heart.” Hildegard helps Elisabeth listen beneath the fear, excitement, anxiety, and temptation in order to recognize where each movement is leading. What comes from God draws the soul more deeply toward Christ, humility, freedom, and loving service.

Hildegard describes this spiritual battle through unforgettable images. God waters his instruments so that they may bear fruit, while the “ancient serpent” notices the beautiful jewel and tries to distort what God is doing. A genuine grace, blessing, prompting, or spiritual gift can become surrounded by spiritual pride, fear, or even false humility.

Her answer is discernment rooted in God. We are earthen vessels carrying a treasure that is not our own. We are trumpets that truly sound, but another supplies the breath. We are mirrors reflecting a light that did not begin with us.

Hildegard also gives a practical test: look at the fruit. Is what is happening making us more like Christ? Are we becoming more humble, gentle, teachable, and willing to serve? Or are we becoming increasingly preoccupied with ourselves, our importance, our fear, or our inadequacy?

Even Hildegard admits that she knows “fainthearted fear.” Her final prayer gives the listener a way forward:

“May God help me, so that I may remain in his service.”

I, a poor little creature and an earthen vessel, say these things not from myself, but from the serene light: A human being is a vessel that God has fashioned for himself and filled with his inspiration, so that he might accomplish his works within it. For God does not work as a human being does; all things are accomplished at his command.

Grasses, woody plants, and trees appeared. The sun, moon, and stars came forth to perform their service. The waters brought forth fish and birds, and herds and wild animals arose, all serving human beings as God ordained.

Yet humanity alone did not recognize him. For when God prepared great knowledge for man, man exalted himself in his own mind and turned away from God. God had looked upon him with the intention of accomplishing all his works within him. But the ancient deceiver misled him and infected him with the sin of disobedience through delight in an unruly wind, as he sought more than he should have. Ah, alas! Then all the elements became entangled in the alternation of light and darkness, as man had become entangled through transgressing God’s commandments.

Yet God watered certain people, so that humanity would not become utterly an object of scorn. Abel was good, but Cain was a murderer. Many saw the mysteries of God in the light, while others committed many sins, until the time came when the Word of God shone forth, as it is written: “You are the fairest of the sons of men.”

Then the Sun of Justice came forth and enlightened people with good works, in faith and in action, just as dawn comes first and the other hours of the day follow until night approaches. In this way, O daughter Elisabeth, the world changes.

For the world has already grown weary in all the greenness of its virtues: at dawn, at the first hour, at the third, and most of all at the sixth hour of the day. Therefore, at this time, it is necessary for God to water certain people, so that his instruments will not remain idle.

Listen, O anxious daughter: the ambitious prompting of the ancient serpent troubles those whom God’s inspiration has filled in this way. For when that serpent sees a beautiful jewel, he immediately roars, saying, “What is this?” He torments it with the many miseries of a burning mind that longs to fly above the clouds, as though such people were gods, just as he himself does.

Now listen again: Those who desire to accomplish the works of God should always remember that they are earthen vessels, because they are human. They should always consider what they are and what they will become, and leave heavenly things to him who is heavenly. For they are exiles who do not know heavenly things, but only sound forth the mysteries of God, like a trumpet that gives a sound without producing it by itself: someone else breathes into it so that it may sound.

Let them also put on the breastplate of faith, being meek, gentle, poor, and afflicted, just as the Lamb was, whose trumpet’s sound they are. Let them have the simple ways of a child. For God continually chastens those who sound his trumpet, taking care that their earthen vessel should not perish, but should be pleasing to him.

O daughter, may God make you a mirror of life.

I too lie in fainthearted fear, sometimes sounding just a little, like the faint sound of a trumpet from the living Light. May God help me, so that I may remain in his service.

Letter 201r in the modern edition of her correspondence; also printed in Patrologia Latina 197, columns 216–218. The text below is a DH translation of the public-domain Latin. The Psalm quotation uses the RSV-CE.

2 Corinthians 4:7, RSV-CE

“But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us.”

1 Corinthians 4:7, RSV-CE

“What have you that you did not receive?”

St. Hildegard of Bingen

“When that serpent sees a beautiful jewel, he immediately roars, saying, ‘What is this?’”

“Those who desire to accomplish the works of God should always remember that they are earthen vessels.”

“Someone else breathes into it so that it may sound.”

“O daughter, may God make you a mirror of life.”

“May God help me, so that I may remain in his service.”

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In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects with Saint Bernard of Clairvaux on Our Lady of Sorrows and the deeper spiritual meaning of sorrow.

Sorrow reaches far beyond bereavement. It can arise when a relationship is wounded, health or independence changes, someone we love takes a painful path, a long-held hope is lost, or life unfolds very differently from what we expected. Sorrow enters wherever love encounters something precious that has been changed, wounded, separated from us, or placed beyond our reach.

Saint Bernard draws attention to one striking word in describing the Blessed Mother at Calvary: she grieved “intensely.” Mary knew the promises of God and trusted him completely, yet that faith did not remove the pain of watching her Son suffer. Her sorrow flowed from the depth of her love.

In this sense, sorrow can become “love realized.” The ache reveals that something or someone truly matters. The heart continues to love and therefore continues to long for communion when that communion has been interrupted.

Saint Augustine’s words that the human heart remains restless until it rests in God help illuminate this experience. Our deepest longing is for communion with the Lord, and every authentic human love participates in that desire. Our Lady of Sorrows teaches us to bring our longing to God rather than allowing loss to close the heart in despair or bitterness.

Mary also offers practical spiritual direction for circumstances we cannot control. There are times when love calls us to seek healing, reconciliation, protection, or change. There are other losses we cannot simply undo. At the Cross, the Blessed Mother cannot remove Jesus’ suffering. Her fidelity consists in remaining near him and staying receptive to God within something she cannot change.

For the discerning heart, this invites honest prayer. What has been lost? What has changed? What is the heart longing for? Rather than denying those desires, we can bring them to Christ and ask Our Lady to help us carry sorrow in a way that remains open to grace.

Even at Calvary, Jesus entrusts John to Mary. John does not replace Jesus, and the Blessed Virgin is not asked to forget what has been lost. Yet her vocation to love continues. In the same way, sorrow can profoundly change a life without placing that life outside God’s providence.

Our Lady of Sorrows teaches us to honor what has been lost while remaining attentive to what God is giving now.

Luke 2:35, RSV-CE

“And a sword will pierce through your own soul also.”

John 19:25, RSV-CE

“Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother.”

John 19:26-27, RSV-CE

“Woman, behold, your son!” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!”

St. Bernard of Clairvaux

“And still she grieved over her crucified Son? Intensely.”

“Truly, O blessed Mother, a sword has pierced your heart.”

“She died in spirit through a love unlike any other since his.”

St. Augustine

“You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.”

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In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects on Saint Bernard of Clairvaux’s teaching on the stages of contemplation and what it can teach us about discerning God’s will.

St. Bernard begins with a powerful image: before trying to determine where God is leading, “take our stand” on Christ, the solid rock. Discernment begins in relationship with Jesus. From that foundation, the soul learns to listen to what the Lord is saying and to consider how it is being called to respond.

Bernard describes the first stage of contemplation as asking what God wants, what is pleasing to him, and what is acceptable in his sight. This requires humility because even sincere prayer can be influenced by our own desires, fears, attachments, expectations, and wounds. The answer is not self-condemnation, but honesty beneath the merciful gaze of God: “Heal me, Lord.”

As prayer deepens, Bernard describes another movement. The soul gradually turns from concentrating primarily on itself and its particular circumstances toward contemplating God himself. The question begins to move from “What does God want from me?” toward a deeper confidence in who God is and in the goodness of his will.

This change is important for discernment. God’s will is not a hidden answer that must somehow be forced out of him. Trust grows as the soul becomes convinced of God’s goodness. Even when his will involves surrender, patience, conversion, or an unexpected road, the discerning heart can place itself in his hands because it has begun to know the One who leads it.

Saint Bernard summarizes the movement beautifully: contemplating ourselves brings humility, while contemplating God brings hope and love. For someone whose discernment has become anxious or exhausting, his counsel is deeply practical. Stand again on Christ, acknowledge honestly what is happening within the heart, receive God’s mercy, and allow prayer to lead beyond endless self-examination into confidence in the goodness of the Lord.

Romans 12:2, RSV-CE

“Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”

St. Bernard of Clairvaux

“Let us take our stand on the tower, leaning with all our strength on Christ, the most solid rock.”

“The first stage of contemplation, my dear brothers, is to consider constantly what God wants, what is pleasing to him, and what is acceptable in his eyes.”

“For our life is in his will.”

“Let us reflect how gracious the Lord is and how good he is in himself.”

“Contemplating ourselves brings fear and humility; contemplating God brings us hope and love.”

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In this episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor reflects on the last letter of St. Teresa of Calcutta to the Missionaries of Charity, dated September 5, 1997, the day Mother Teresa died.

At the end of her life, St. Teresa returns to the spiritual truths she had spent years teaching her sisters: remain close to Jesus and Mary, live with loving trust and total surrender, listen to the thirst of Christ, and recognize Jesus in the people placed before you.

Her words, “Be only all for Jesus through Mary,” open a reflection on what it means to give the whole of life to Christ. Prayer, work, relationships, disappointments, responsibilities, and even circumstances we would never have chosen can become places of surrender and grace.

St. Teresa points to Mary as the model of this trusting response. Mary receives the word of God without being shown everything that will follow from her yes. Her fiat becomes a reminder that God often gives enough grace for the next faithful step rather than revealing the whole road ahead.

At the center of St. Teresa’s spirituality is the cry of Jesus from the Cross: “I thirst.” She understood those words personally. Christ thirsts for souls and for our love. Standing with Mary beneath the Cross helps us hear that invitation and consider not only what we are asking of God, but what Jesus may be asking of us.

The letter closes with Mother Teresa’s joy over St. Thérèse of Lisieux being named a Doctor of the Church. She immediately recognizes the wisdom of the Little Way: holiness is often formed through ordinary duties, hidden sacrifices, patience, and small acts offered with great love.

St. Teresa of Calcutta and St. Thérèse lived very different vocations, but both remind us that sanctity is found in giving ourselves to God within the actual circumstances of daily life.

(5 September 1997)

St. Teresa of Calcutta

“Be only all for Jesus through Mary.”

“Loving Trust and Total Surrender made Our Lady say ‘Yes’ to the message of the angel.”

“It is only with Our Lady that we can hear Jesus cry, ‘I Thirst.’”

“So let us keep very small and follow Little Flower’s way of trust and love and joy.”

John 19:28, RSV-CE

“I thirst.”

Luke 1:38, RSV-CE

“Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

Luke 1:39, RSV-CE

“In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah.”

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What if the time, place, relationships, vocation, and circumstances of your life are not accidental, but the very place where God is calling you to become a saint?

In this introductory episode of The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart, Kris McGregor explores the deeply personal nature of the spiritual journey. God knows each soul individually, and the path of holiness unfolds within the real circumstances of the life we have been given. Discernment begins by learning to recognize the grace of God already present there and by responding faithfully to his invitation.

The journey, however, is not made alone. Drawing on the image from the Letter to the Hebrews of the “great cloud of witnesses,” Kris introduces the saints and spiritual masters of the Church as companions along the way. Their lives are not templates to copy, but witnesses that can help us understand prayer, discernment, suffering, conversion, surrender, and the workings of grace.

Throughout this series, The Spiritual Journey for the Discerning Heart will draw especially from Scripture, the Office of Readings, and the wider treasury of Catholic spiritual tradition. Through the words of the saints and great spiritual masters, listeners will receive practical help for recognizing what may be happening in their spiritual lives, discerning how God is leading them, and responding to him with greater freedom and trust.

The destination remains Jesus Christ. The saints help point the way, encourage us when the road becomes difficult, and remind us that holiness is possible in the particular life God has given us.

Hebrews 12:1-2, RSV-CE

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith.”

Ephesians 2:10, RSV-CE

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

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Scripture Reading:

When Samuel first heard God’s voice, he did not recognize it.

That short prayer shows us the heart of openness.

Openness does not mean coming to prayer empty of cares.

To be open is to make space for God to act in ways we could not have planned.

Saint’s Teaching:

The “ear of the heart” listens differently from the ear of the body.

In the discerning heart, openness means cultivating this kind of listening.

Guided Application Questions:

Closing Prayer:

Amen

© Discerning Hearts. All rights reserved.

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Scripture Reading:

At the Annunciation, the angel Gabriel brings Mary a message she could never have imagined. She is told she will conceive and bear the Son of God. Her whole life will change in a moment.

Mary’s response is simple yet profound: “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” She does not ask for guarantees. She does not negotiate terms. She simply offers herself, completely and without reserve, into the hands of God.

This is the heart of generosity: a willingness to give ourselves to God’s plan, even when we do not fully understand it. True generosity is not only about giving possessions or time, but about offering our very selves. It means holding nothing back, trusting that God’s will, though sometimes mysterious, is always rooted in love.

In the discerning heart, generosity frees us. When we cling to control or keep parts of our lives closed off from God, we carry burdens He never meant for us to carry. But when we give ourselves wholly to Him, we discover a freedom and joy that only surrender can bring.

Saint’s Teaching:

Francis did not simply give things away; he gave himself away. His life became a continual yes to God, echoing the fiat of Mary. In him, we see that generosity is not loss — it is the discovery of life in abundance.

Guided Application Questions:

Closing Prayer:

Amen.

© Discerning Hearts. All rights reserved.

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