The Striving

Sustainable Packaging Explained: EPR, Consumer Behavior & The Future of Packaging

What does truly sustainable packaging look like, and why is it so complicated?

In this episode, we sit down with Caroline Deloach, Director of Sustainability at Atlantic Packaging, to unpack the reality behind plastic, recycling, and the future of packaging in the U.S.

From the “say-do gap” in consumer behavior to the rise of Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) laws, this conversation breaks down the trade-offs, challenges, and real solutions shaping the packaging industry today.

💡 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Why sustainable packaging depends on the specific use case (especially in food)
• The truth behind the “say-do gap”—why consumers say one thing but buy another
• Why there is no silver bullet material (and the trade-offs of plastic vs. paper)
• The challenges of compostable packaging and limited infrastructure
• How Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) is transforming the industry
• Why brands may face fines up to $25,000/day for non-compliance
• Which U.S. states are already implementing EPR laws
• How companies like Atlantic Packaging are driving real, practical change

🌊 Why This Matters

Packaging sits at the center of the plastic pollution crisis, but solving it isn’t as simple as switching materials.

This episode dives into the economic, environmental, and behavioral realities behind packaging decisions, and what it will take to move toward a circular economy.

🔔 Subscribe for more conversations on sustainability, plastic pollution, circular economy, and real-world solutions.

I’ve always believed that no brand would package their goods in plastic if there was a sustainable alternative at the same price point. But as Dr. Dagny Tucker (Co-founder of Perpetual) explains in this episode, moving to a circular economy isn't a moral challenge. It’s a systems failure.We have spent over 50 years optimizing for a single-use economy, making once-absurd behaviors like discarding resources after a single use seem normal. Now, we’re future-casting a world where reuse infrastructure is as seamless as throwing something away. If you are a founder or brand manager navigating new mandates like California’s, this is your roadmap for making reuse and refill work at scale.🕒 Timestamps00:00 – The "Waste Picker" Story: Why individual efforts can’t fix a broken system.04:28 – Refill vs. Reuse: The critical distinction regarding container ownership.09:09 – The Burden Shift: Why refill systems often fail by asking too much of the customer.18:34 – Case Study: Hilo, Hawaii: Launching the first U.S. municipal reuse system in 2026.21:40 – The Infrastructure: Industrial washing, high-volume machines, and 100+ return bins.30:04 – Legislation Alert: How SB 54 (California) and French laws are mandating 10% reuse.37:59 – The LCA Truth: Is stainless steel actually better for the environment than plastic?.44:28 – Why "Pilot" is a five-letter word in the sustainability world.

Everyone that cared about plastic pollution started this decade full of hope. It was labeled as the Decade Of Action. YAAAAY LET'S GOOO!

And now, half-way through? What did we achieve? Enough, nothing, maybe a little bit?

We unpack this today with the OGs of plastic podcasting. Matt & John from plastic.climate.future.

They observe the plastics space since 2021 on their podcast. They interviewed me a couple of years ago, (which btw led to an invitation to South Korea but that's a story for another day) this time I interview them.

I ask them what happened so far, if they are happy with it and what they expect. They reflect on their podcast and we discuss who they would love to see on their show.

Disclaimer: The conversation was originally recorded in German. We dubbed it with AI to make it accessible to non-German speakers. And since we're discussing legal topics, please be extra careful. If you have any doubts regarding translations or content, please reach out to us. Green Claims & Greenwashing: Why “Climate Neutral” and “Sustainable” Will Be Banned from September (with Christina Kufer)From September onwards, everything changes for sustainable brands. The EU is getting serious in the fight against greenwashing. Terms like “sustainable,” “eco-friendly,” or “climate neutral” will be blacklisted if they are not backed up with solid, verifiable evidence.In this episode, I talk to lawyer Christina Kufer about the Empowering Consumers Directive (EmpCo) and the Green Claims Directive. We explain why almost all generic environmental claims will soon be legally challengeable, what will happen to self-created product labels, and why the term “climate neutral” on packaging will soon be a thing of the past.Christina gives practical advice on what founders and marketing teams need to do now to avoid legal warnings and penalties.In this episode, you’ll learn:The difference: What distinguishes the Empowering Consumers Directive from the Green Claims Directive?The “sustainable” ban: Why generic terms like “sustainable” or “eco-friendly” will soon be illegal without certification.Label chaos: Why self-made environmental icons and logos will be banned — and which third-party certifications will still be allowed.Climate neutrality: Why CO₂ offsetting can no longer be advertised as “climate neutral” (and the difference between product and corporate claims).Future claims: What strict rules apply if you say: “We will be net zero by 2030.”Legal risk: What happens when the lawyer’s letter arrives (cease-and-desist letter, injunction, sales ban, sell-off periods).

Should your brand become a B Corp? Or is it just expensive “greenwashing”?

It’s B Corp Month, and in this episode, we break down one of the most misunderstood certifications in business.

I’m joined by Armelle, who leads the B Corp community in Germany, to answer the questions founders, startups, and operators are actually asking:

👉 What does B Corp really mean beyond the logo?

👉 How long does certification take (months… or years)?

👉 Is it worth it for startups or just big brands like Patagonia?

👉 And will it help you stay compliant with new EU regulations?

What you’ll learn in this episode:

What the B Corp certification actually measures (and why it’s so rigorous)

The real timeline & resources required to become a B Corp

Why B Corp is more than a badge; it’s a framework for building better companies

How it helps with investors, hiring, and long-term resilience

The truth about greenwashing vs. real accountability

Why startups should consider it earlier than they think

How B Corp aligns with new EU sustainability regulations (like the Green Claims Directive)

Key takeaway:

B Corp isn’t about being perfect, it’s about building a business that’s accountable, transparent, and future-proof. And whether you certify or not, the framework itself might be one of the most valuable tools for running a better company.

Let us know in the comments: Would you consider becoming a B Corp, or is it not worth the effort?

In this conversation, Colm Jordan from Indorama Ventures discusses the company's role in PET recycling and the broader implications of plastic waste management. He highlights the importance of circular economy practices, the challenges faced in recycling economics, and the need for effective policies like the plastic treaty. Colm emphasizes the shared responsibility of corporations and society in managing waste and the significance of the informal sector in recycling efforts. He advocates for a balanced approach to sustainability that considers both environmental and social factors.

Takeaways

- Indorama Ventures is a leader in PET production and recycling.

- PET is one of the most recycled plastics globally, but challenges remain.

- The economics of recycling are complex and influenced by market prices.

- Technical limitations exist for using PET in certain products like beer.

- The future of PET packaging is promising with innovations on the horizon.

- Effective plastic treaties must consider both environmental and social impacts.

- Shared responsibility is crucial in addressing waste management issues.

- The informal sector plays a significant role in waste collection and recycling.

- Balancing rights and responsibilities is essential in sustainability discussions.

- Transparency in advocacy and lobbying is vital for effective policy-making.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Indorama Ventures and PET Recycling

02:11 Current State of PET Recycling

05:52 Challenges in Recycling Economics

10:23 Technical Limitations of PET Packaging

15:47 The Future of PET in Packaging and Legislation

19:31 The Role of Extended Producer Responsibility

25:25 Collective Responsibility in Waste Management

26:25 The Role of Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR)

29:34 Transparency and Accountability in Waste Management

30:34 Dignity and Respect in the Informal Sector

33:27 Reimagining EPR for Local Contexts

36:45 Global Inequality and Waste Management

39:59 Externalities and Sustainable Practices

46:12 Advocacy and Transparency in Circular Economy