The Syndicate

The Syndicate

Download on the App Store

The Syndicate episodes

  • Getting Dirty Middle Eastern Money Out of Venture Industry and Intentionally Raising a Small VC Fund with John Vrionis of UnusualVC

    John Vrionis is the founder and managing partner of UnusualVC, a mission-driven seed-stage venture firm and is a venture partner with Lightspeed Ventures (previously a partner). John’s invested in the likes of Affirmed, AppDynamics, Docker, Athos, Citadel and many more.





    Listen and Learn:

    * How John prioritizes diversity and why it leads to better returns
    * What John would change with VC if he could
    * Why the venture industry is polluted with dirty
    * His reasons for being highly skeptical of blockchain
    * How venture incentive structures mess up the VC space
    * Why UnusualVC only raised $160M of their subscribed $1B demand
    * The reason China will outperform the US in startup investing in the future
    * Why John believes we still are not at 50% saturation of software



    John’s Main Projects:
    Unusual.VC
    Lightspeed Venture Partners
    John’s Medium blog
    Twitter: @jvrionis
    John’s Linkedin
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    John Vrionis is the founder and managing partner of UnusualVC, a mission-driven seed-stage venture firm and is a venture partner with Lightspeed Ventures (previously a partner). John’s invested in the likes of Affirmed, AppDynamics, Docker, Athos, Citadel and many more.





    Listen and Learn:

    * How John prioritizes diversity and why it leads to better returns
    * What John would change with VC if he could
    * Why the venture industry is polluted with dirty
    * His reasons for being highly skeptical of blockchain
    * How venture incentive structures mess up the VC space
    * Why UnusualVC only raised $160M of their subscribed $1B demand
    * The reason China will outperform the US in startup investing in the future
    * Why John believes we still are not at 50% saturation of software



    John’s Main Projects:
    Unusual.VC
    Lightspeed Venture Partners
    John’s Medium blog
    Twitter: @jvrionis
    John’s Linkedin
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    0 min
  • How Family Offices Think About Startup Investing and Venture Capital with Richard Wilson of Family Office Club

    Richard Wilson runs the Family Office Club, the #1 largest community in the industry with well over 1,500 registered single and multi-family offices which manage in excess of $1 Trillion in Assets Under Management. They host 10 exclusive events per year with billionaire family members, top 50 multi-family offices, and secretive single family offices to share best practices, tips and tricks will ultra high net worth individuals.
    Prior to his work with Family Offices, Richard ran a hedge fund consulting practice, worked in risk management and worked with high net worth individuals on capital deployment.
     


    Listen and Learn:

    * How most family offices think about venture investing
    * What family offices look for when making direct investments
    * Why angels and VCs approach family offices and LPs all wrong
    * How Richard advises family offices separate buckets of investment
    * How he built a massive network of Angellist syndicates
    * What mistakes most family offices make for creating generational wealth
    * What LPs need to know about asset allocation
    * Where to meet most family offices



    Richard’s Main Projects:
    familyoffices.com
    Richard’s Linkedin
    Twitter: @richardcwilson
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    Richard Wilson runs the Family Office Club, the #1 largest community in the industry with well over 1,500 registered single and multi-family offices which manage in excess of $1 Trillion in Assets Under Management. They host 10 exclusive events per year with billionaire family members, top 50 multi-family offices, and secretive single family offices to share best practices, tips and tricks will ultra high net worth individuals.
    Prior to his work with Family Offices, Richard ran a hedge fund consulting practice, worked in risk management and worked with high net worth individuals on capital deployment.
     


    Listen and Learn:

    * How most family offices think about venture investing
    * What family offices look for when making direct investments
    * Why angels and VCs approach family offices and LPs all wrong
    * How Richard advises family offices separate buckets of investment
    * How he built a massive network of Angellist syndicates
    * What mistakes most family offices make for creating generational wealth
    * What LPs need to know about asset allocation
    * Where to meet most family offices



    Richard’s Main Projects:
    familyoffices.com
    Richard’s Linkedin
    Twitter: @richardcwilson
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    28 min
  • The Future of the Internet and Governments with Clay Collins of the Flippening Podcast
    Clay Collins (@claycollins) is one of the top internet marketers in the world. After leaving home at age 15 to start his first software company, Clay has gone on to co-found Leadpages which raised $38M and was later acquired for a sizable exit.
    In addition, Clay has presented on some of the largest internet marketing conferences and stages in the world and was recently featured in the documentary “Add To Cart” which follows the history of internet marketing pioneers such as Christian Lander (Stuff White People Like), Gary Vaynerchuk (Wine Library TV), Andy Jenkins (Kajabi), Tucker Max, and Frank Kern.
    More recently Clay has been focusing extensively on the blockchain & cryptocurrency space where he is the co-founder of Nomics, which produces a free crypto market data API for enterprise level crypto investors and runs Flippening, a top 3 crypto podcast.



     
    Listen and Learn:

    * How blockchain and cryptocurrency threatens current political order
    * The big problem with government fiat money
    * Where Clay sees us headed in terms of the internet
    * How your privacy is bought and sold, well beyond what you already know
    * Why Clay would bet it all on Bitcoin
    The future of governance and governments
    * How IoT will affect all of us
    * Why building a venture funded tech startup is harder than almost anything else
    * How libertarians want to recreate the internet
    * Why blockchain is still a long ways off from mass market success
    * What futures Clay is most worried about
    * Why AI won’t be replacing all jobs soon

    Clay Collins (@claycollins) is one of the top internet marketers in the world. After leaving home at age 15 to start his first software company, Clay has gone on to co-found Leadpages which raised $38M and was later acquired for a sizable exit.
    In addition, Clay has presented on some of the largest internet marketing conferences and stages in the world and was recently featured in the documentary “Add To Cart” which follows the history of internet marketing pioneers such as Christian Lander (Stuff White People Like), Gary Vaynerchuk (Wine Library TV), Andy Jenkins (Kajabi), Tucker Max, and Frank Kern.
    More recently Clay has been focusing extensively on the blockchain & cryptocurrency space where he is the co-founder of Nomics, which produces a free crypto market data API for enterprise level crypto investors and runs Flippening, a top 3 crypto podcast.



     
    Listen and Learn:

    * How blockchain and cryptocurrency threatens current political order
    * The big problem with government fiat money
    * Where Clay sees us headed in terms of the internet
    * How your privacy is bought and sold, well beyond what you already know
    * Why Clay would bet it all on Bitcoin
    The future of governance and governments
    * How IoT will affect all of us
    * Why building a venture funded tech startup is harder than almost anything else
    * How libertarians want to recreate the internet
    * Why blockchain is still a long ways off from mass market success
    43 min
  • How YCombinator is Working to Save the US Education System from Collapse with Geoff Ralston of YC

    Geoff Ralston is the founder of Imagine K12, an education focused vertical within the super successful startup accelerator YCombinator. Collectively, Y Combinator and Imagine K12 have backed over 100 education technology startups. In addition to his work with YC, Geoff’s a prolific angel investor, with over 80 portfolio companies and 18 exits to date.
    Prior to joining YC as a Partner, Geoff was the CEO of Lala Media, a music startup which was acquired by Apple for $80M in 2009. He also spent 9 years at Yahoo and was the Former Chief Product Officer a decade before the company became irrelevant.
     

     
    Listen and Learn:

    * The major problems with America’s education system
    * How startups and YC are working to redesign education
    * Is college still necessary?
    * How venture capitalists can make outsized differences in the world
    * Why education and healthcare as so expensive and slow to adapt
    * What angel investors need to know to avoid losing money
    * How Geoff thinks about industries and investment philosophies
    * Why Geoff started an edtech accelerator and merged with YCombinator
    * The reason Geoff is incredibly optimistic about biotech and AI
    * The ethical issues of education and access and how we can fix them
    * Why education NEEDS to be personalized
    * How to hone your craft and becoming worldclass
    * Which industries Geoff is most excited about

    Geoff’s Projects:
    ImagineK12
    YCombinator
    Geoff’s Angellist
    Twitter: @gralston
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    Like this? You will love our new podcast: FringeFM which explores edges of human understanding and sci-fi tech: Subscribe on iTunes and Stitcher.
    Geoff Ralston is the founder of Imagine K12, an education focused vertical within the super successful startup accelerator YCombinator. Collectively, Y Combinator and Imagine K12 have backed over 100 education technology startups. In addition to his work with YC, Geoff’s a prolific angel investor, with over 80 portfolio companies and 18 exits to date.
    Prior to joining YC as a Partner, Geoff was the CEO of Lala Media, a music startup which was acquired by Apple for $80M in 2009. He also spent 9 years at Yahoo and was the Former Chief Product Officer a decade before the company became irrelevant.
     

     
    Listen and Learn:

    * The major problems with America’s education system
    * How startups and YC are working to redesign education
    * Is college still necessary?
    * How venture capitalists can make outsized differences in the world
    * Why education and healthcare as so expensive and slow to adapt
    * What angel investors need to know to avoid losing money
    * How Geoff thinks about industries and investment philosophies
    * Why Geoff started an edtech accelerator and merged with YCombinator
    * The reason Geoff is incredibly optimistic about biotech and AI
    * The ethical issues of education and access and how we can fix them
    * Why education NEEDS to be personalized
    * How to hone your craft and becoming worldclass
    * Which industries Geoff is most excited about

    Geoff’s Projects:
    ImagineK12
    0 min
  • FringeFM 38 – Bitcoin, Blockchain and Building a Better Future with Travis Scher of Digital Currency Group
    Travis Scher (@travisscher) leads venture capital and new cryptoasset investing at Digital Currency Group(DCG), a blockchain investment firm with a mission is to accelerate the development of a better financial system.
    DCG is world’s the most prolific investor in blockchain startups. They have invested in over 100 companies in 30 different countries, including market leaders like Coinbase, Blockchain, Ledger, and Ripple and they have also invested directly in crypto-assets, including Bitcoin, Decentraland, Ethereum Classic, and Zcash.
    Digital Currency Group is not a traditional venture capital fund, instead they also build and buy companies. DCG has three wholly owned subsidiaries: CoinDesk, the leading independent source of blockchain news, research, and events, Genesis Trading, a full-service institutional trading firm focused on digital currencies, and Grayscale Investments, the world’s largest digital currency asset manager.
     

     
    In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:

    * The future of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies
    * Why blockchain builds perfectly upon VR
    * How non-governmental money will impact society
    * The big problem with custody and control of money
    * Why we’re still a few years off from widespread crypto adoption
    * The importance of AI in cryptocurrency
    * How Travis thinks we can rewrite democracy
    * The effects of utility tokens on internet monopolies
    * Travis’ thoughts on user experience and product adoption
    * The reason Travis is still bullish on Bitcoin
    * The effects of ICOs on venture capital ecosystem
    * Why our banking system is totally broken

    Like this? Be sure to jump over to FringeFM or subscribe via iTunes or Stitcher


      Travis Scher (@travisscher) leads venture capital and new cryptoasset investing at Digital Currency Group(DCG), a blockchain investment firm with a mission is to accelerate the development of a better financial system.
    DCG is world’s the most prolific investor in blockchain startups. They have invested in over 100 companies in 30 different countries, including market leaders like Coinbase, Blockchain, Ledger, and Ripple and they have also invested directly in crypto-assets, including Bitcoin, Decentraland, Ethereum Classic, and Zcash.
    Digital Currency Group is not a traditional venture capital fund, instead they also build and buy companies. DCG has three wholly owned subsidiaries: CoinDesk, the leading independent source of blockchain news, research, and events, Genesis Trading, a full-service institutional trading firm focused on digital currencies, and Grayscale Investments, the world’s largest digital currency asset manager.
     

     
    In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:

    * The future of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies
    * Why blockchain builds perfectly upon VR
    * How non-governmental money will impact society
    * The big problem with custody and control of money
    * Why we’re still a few years off from widespread crypto adoption
    * The importance of AI in cryptocurrency
    * How Travis thinks we can rewrite democracy
    * The effects of utility tokens on internet monopolies
    * Travis’ thoughts on user experience and product adoption
    * The reason Travis is still bullish on Bitcoin
    * The effects of ICOs on venture capital ecosystem
    * Why our banking system is totally broken

    Like this?
    0 min
  • How to Tech Invest Like Warren Buffett with Prolific Angel Investor David Weekly

    David Weekly is back on The Syndicate podcast. If you missed David’s previous appearance on the show, it was a great one, especially for angel investors and VCs interested in driving returns by investing out of market. If you haven’t already, go listen to that episode before continuing here, or don’t, either way it is incredibly valuable. Enjoy.





    Listen and Learn:

    * How Warren Buffett influences David’s approach to investing
    * The two best times to invest and get a great deal
    * How to evaluate companies based on fundamentals
    * Why Angellist isn’t as great for syndicates as it once was
    * How and when to start your own fund
    * The reason David is incredibly contrarian as an investor
    * Why David is excited ocean investing
    * How to spot upcoming tech trends


    David’s Projects:
    Drone.vc syndicate
    David Weekly’s Angellist syndicate
    David’s blog
    David’s Twitter: @dweekly
    David Weekly is back on The Syndicate podcast. If you missed David’s previous appearance on the show, it was a great one, especially for angel investors and VCs interested in driving returns by investing out of market. If you haven’t already, go listen to that episode before continuing here, or don’t, either way it is incredibly valuable. Enjoy.





    Listen and Learn:

    * How Warren Buffett influences David’s approach to investing
    * The two best times to invest and get a great deal
    * How to evaluate companies based on fundamentals
    * Why Angellist isn’t as great for syndicates as it once was
    * How and when to start your own fund
    * The reason David is incredibly contrarian as an investor
    * Why David is excited ocean investing
    * How to spot upcoming tech trends


    David’s Projects:
    Drone.vc syndicate
    David Weekly’s Angellist syndicate
    David’s blog
    David’s Twitter: @dweekly
    0 min
  • Building Better Product Driven Companies with Catherine Ulrich of FirstMark Capital

    Catherine Ulrich is the Managing Director of FirstMark Capital, invests in a broad range of consumer and enterprise start-ups. She has a deep passion for and expertise in health and wellness, consumer AI, and behavior change. Prior to joining FirstMark, she was the Chief Product Officer at Shutterstock (NYSE: SSTK), which she joined after serving as Chief Product Officer of Weight Watchers (NYSE: WTW).

    Listen and Learn:

    * The important skills for any Product Manager
    * How Catherine thinks about product roadmapping and company direction
    * Ways that any individual can uplevel their leadership and personal growth
    * Why Catherine decided to switch from operator to investor
    * What WeightWatchers taught Catherine about customer interactions
    * How misaligned markets create massive opportunities
    * Where there may be very interesting investment opportunities
    * Two key questions to ask every founder

    Catherine’s Projects:
    Catherine’s Linkedin
    FirstMark Capital
    Catherine’s Medium
    Twitter: @kit_ulrich
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    Catherine Ulrich is the Managing Director of FirstMark Capital, invests in a broad range of consumer and enterprise start-ups. She has a deep passion for and expertise in health and wellness, consumer AI, and behavior change. Prior to joining FirstMark, she was the Chief Product Officer at Shutterstock (NYSE: SSTK), which she joined after serving as Chief Product Officer of Weight Watchers (NYSE: WTW).

    Listen and Learn:

    * The important skills for any Product Manager
    * How Catherine thinks about product roadmapping and company direction
    * Ways that any individual can uplevel their leadership and personal growth
    * Why Catherine decided to switch from operator to investor
    * What WeightWatchers taught Catherine about customer interactions
    * How misaligned markets create massive opportunities
    * Where there may be very interesting investment opportunities
    * Two key questions to ask every founder

    Catherine’s Projects:
    Catherine’s Linkedin
    FirstMark Capital
    Catherine’s Medium
    Twitter: @kit_ulrich
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    0 min
  • Internet of Things

    Kyle Ellicott is the Founder and Chief Labs Officer of ReadWrite / ReadWrite Labs (formerly known as Wearable IoT World, Inc.), a San Francisco-based Media and Ventures company dedicated to creating the social fabric for businesses around Wearables and the Internet of Things (IoT) ecosystem. The company is focused on connecting technological experts, thought-leaders, corporate/startup executives, and investors as they build these emerging technologies through fostering dynamic relationships between brands, businesses, and bright minds.
    And in an exciting twist, Kyle will be joining The Syndicate as a Managing Partner to help our grow our accredited investor syndicate, bringing his powerful network and deal flow to our group of angel investors. I am super excited to have Kyle on the team as I’ve been a bit busy and unable to focus on our investors as I feel I should and look forward to the professionalization and growth of our syndicate.
    NOTE: If you are an accredited investor and interested in high growth investment opportunities, I recommend applying to join our investment group.



    Listen and Learn:

    * How IoT is shaping up to evolve society
    * Why China will dominate transportation and driverless vehicles industry
    * Lessons learned from investing in over 100 IoT startups
    * Mistakes Kyle made as an angel investor
    * How to think about scooter, bike and ridesharing companies
    * The reason the US is lagging in certain industries
    * How Kyle sees blockchains role in society
    * Implications of IoT growth in our daily lives
    * Why investing globally is a really good idea as an investor
    * How Kyle builds up better and better deal flow
    * Why Kyle will be joining The Syndicate to help bolster our investment group


    Kyle’s Projects:
    readwritelabs.com
    Kyle’s LinkedIn
    Kyle’s Angellist
    Twitter: @readwritelabs
    Are you an accredited investor? Apply to join our angel syndicate if you’d like to access our deal flow.
    Like this? You will love our new podcast: FringeFM which explores edges of human understanding and sci-fi tech: Subscribe on iTunes and Stitcher.
    Kyle Ellicott is the Founder and Chief Labs Officer of ReadWrite / ReadWrite Labs (formerly known as Wearable IoT World, Inc.), a San Francisco-based Media and Ventures company dedicated to creating the social fabric for businesses around Wearables and the Internet of Things (IoT) ecosystem. The company is focused on connecting technological experts, thought-leaders, corporate/startup executives, and investors as they build these emerging technologies through fostering dynamic relationships between brands, businesses, and bright minds.
    And in an exciting twist, Kyle will be joining The Syndicate as a Managing Partner to help our grow our accredited investor syndicate, bringing his powerful network and deal flow to our group of angel investors. I am super excited to have Kyle on the team as I’ve been a bit busy and unable to focus on our investors as I feel I should and look forward to the professionalization and growth of our syndicate.
    NOTE: If you are an accredited investor and interested in high growth investment opportunities, I recommend applying to join our investment group.



    Listen and Learn:

    * How IoT is shaping up to evolve society
    * Why China will dominate transportation and driverless ...
    42 min
  • Artificial Intelligence
    Robin Hanson (@robinhanson)is associate professor of economics at George Mason University, and research associate at the Future of Humanity Institute of Oxford University with a doctorate in social science from CalTech, master’s degrees in physics and philosophy from the University of Chicago. He has spent nine years as a research programmer, at Lockheed and NASA, has 3500 citations, 60 publications, 700 media mentions, and he blogs at OvercomingBias.
    Robin is also the author of The Elephant in the Brain – Hidden Motives in Everyday Life and co-authored The Age of Em – Work, Love and Life when Robots Own the World.
    Hanson is credited with originating the concept of the Policy Analysis Market, a DARPA project to implement a market for betting on future developments in the Middle East. Hanson also created and supports a proposed system of government called futarchy, where policies would be determined by prediction markets.
    Hanson is a man willing to challenge conventional wisdom/norms and has lately drawn criticism for his unconventional economics positions on sex, gender dynamics and problems with today’s society.


    In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:

    * The reasons our culture values and norms are quickly changing
    * Why physics forced Robins to become an atheist
    * How Robin sees artificial intelligence progressing
    * The power of prediction markets and why we haven’t seen more uptick
    * Why brain emulation may be the most likely future scenario
    * The reason Robin prefers to be more like a historian than a futurist
    * Why we’ll never answer the hard problem of consciousness
    * Why economics is a great way to forecast the future
    * The problem with academia and education
    * Why Robin isn’t worried about breakout AI
    * Why Robin is sceptical of blockchains
    * The reason Robin signed up for cryonics
    * What folks should know about AI boom and bust cycles

    Like this? Be sure to jump over to FringeFM or subscribe via iTunes or Stitcher

    Robin Hanson (@robinhanson)is associate professor of economics at George Mason University, and research associate at the Future of Humanity Institute of Oxford University with a doctorate in social science from CalTech, master’s degrees in physics and philosophy from the University of Chicago. He has spent nine years as a research programmer, at Lockheed and NASA, has 3500 citations, 60 publications, 700 media mentions, and he blogs at OvercomingBias.
    Robin is also the author of The Elephant in the Brain – Hidden Motives in Everyday Life and co-authored The Age of Em – Work, Love and Life when Robots Own the World.
    Hanson is credited with originating the concept of the Policy Analysis Market, a DARPA project to implement a market for betting on future developments in the Middle East. Hanson also created and supports a proposed system of government called futarchy, where policies would be determined by prediction markets.
    Hanson is a man willing to challenge conventional wisdom/norms and has lately drawn criticism for his unconventional economics positions on sex, gender dynamics and problems with today’s society.


    In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:

    55 min
  • Aging
    Aubrey de Grey (@aubreydegrey) is Cambridge researcher and Chief Science Officer of SENS Research Foundation focused on aging and extending human longevity. He proposes that the first human beings who will live to 1,000 years old have already been born.
    In addition to his research, Aubrey is editor-in-chief of the academic journal Rejuvenation Research, author of The Mitochondrial Free Radical Theory of Aging (1999) and co-author of Ending Aging (2007).  De Grey’s research focuses on whether regenerative medicine can prevent the aging process. He works on the development of what he calls “Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence” (SENS), a collection of proposed techniques to rejuvenate the human body and stop aging. To this end, he has identified seven types of molecular and cellular damage caused by essential metabolic processes. SENS is a proposed panel of therapies designed to repair this damage.
    He has been interviewed by most major news sources, including CBS 60 Minutes, the BBC, The New York Times, Fortune Magazine, The Washington Post, TED, Popular Science, The Colbert Report, Time and the Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe.


    In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:

    * Why Aubrey switched from studying AI to the science of human longevity
    * The causes of aging and how we can “cure” them
    * Why prevention is orders of magnitude more effective than intervention
    * The reason Aubrey believes some humans today will live to be 1000 years old
    * Why there isn’t enough funding or support currently for fighting aging
    * The reason stem cell research is progressing rapidly and proving fruitful
    * How caloric restriction effects metabolism and aging
    * Why SENS often spins out businesses to further their aims
    * The science of immortality
    * How mainstream media has reacted to prospect of increasing lifespan

    Like this? Be sure to jump over to FringeFM or subscribe via iTunes or Stitcher


     Aubrey de Grey (@aubreydegrey) is Cambridge researcher and Chief Science Officer of SENS Research Foundation focused on aging and extending human longevity. He proposes that the first human beings who will live to 1,000 years old have already been born.
    In addition to his research, Aubrey is editor-in-chief of the academic journal Rejuvenation Research, author of The Mitochondrial Free Radical Theory of Aging (1999) and co-author of Ending Aging (2007).  De Grey’s research focuses on whether regenerative medicine can prevent the aging process. He works on the development of what he calls “Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence” (SENS), a collection of proposed techniques to rejuvenate the human body and stop aging. To this end, he has identified seven types of molecular and cellular damage caused by essential metabolic processes. SENS is a proposed panel of therapies designed to repair this damage.
    He has been interviewed by most major news sources, including CBS 60 Minutes, the BBC, The New York Times, Fortune Magazine, The Washington Post, TED, Popular Science, The Colbert Report, Time and the Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe.


    In our wide-ranging conversation, we cover many things, including:

    * Why Aubrey switched from studying AI to the science of human longevity
    * The causes of aging and how we can “cure” them
    42 min

About The Syndicate

From the publisher's feed

Welcome to The Syndicate, the place where investors and startups combine to create crazy businesses and even crazier returns. The Syndicate podcast is a deep dive on the angel investors and VCs…