What's it like to cover the Derek Chauvin trial against the backdrop of continued police violence? Guest host Ari Shapiro talks to Minnesota activist and journalist O'nika Nicole Craven. Then, he talks to Maurice Chammah, staff writer at The Marshall Project, about the origins and evolving symbolism of the thin blue line. Plus, Misha Euceph on the new season of her podcast Tell Them, I Am, and the many ways that Muslims find glimpses of God. Then, Mary Knauf, executive producer of Tell Them, I Am, joins Ari and Misha to play Who Said That.

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