📍 Content warning. This episode includes a discussion of a suicide attempt starting at 6:09 and running through 8:42. Please take care of yourself while listening. Skip ahead if you need to. If you or somebody you know is struggling, the 988 suicide and crisis line is available 24-7 by call or text.📍 

You left the friend group chat on read for six months and it wasn't a fight, it was just life. School. A new city. A relationship. A marriage. A baby. If you've ever wondered whether going quiet on your best friend means the friendship is over, this episode is for you.

Michelle and Danyelle trace the full arc of their own friendship, from splitting up at 15 when Danyelle left their high school, through different cities, different relationships, and into marriage and parenthood, to make the case that drifting apart isn't a verdict on a friendship. It's what happens when two people are actually out there living. The real work isn't preventing the distance. It's choosing, deliberately, to find your way back.

In This Episode

• Why leaving high school became the first of many life-stage divergences
• Moving to different cities, and what it costs a friendship when proximity disappears
• The couch conversation where one of them finally said "I feel abandoned"
• How attachment styles and nonviolent communication changed how they show up for each other now
• Becoming a "third parent" and what it means to rebuild closeness after marriage and kids
• A two-card tarot pull (Knight of Swords and The Fool) on trust, journey, and taking the leap

Reflection Questions

• Which of your friendships is in a quiet chapter right now?
• What life stage pulled you away from someone you love?
• What would it take to check in, and what's stopping you?

Resources Mentioned

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Boundaries are everywhere in conversation right now, but almost no one talks about how tangled up they are with shame, especially in friendship. This week Michelle and Danyelle get into it: where their earliest boundary memories come from, why setting one can feel like a rejection, and how they've actually negotiated real boundaries with each other over the years.

They introduce the BEAT framework for knowing when it's time to set a boundary, break down what a boundary actually is, and walk through two real examples from their own friendship including what it looked like to ask for what they needed and where they met in the middle.

In this episode:

• The BEAT framework: Body, Effect, Alignment, Thanks - a check-in tool for knowing when it's time to set a boundary
• Why a boundary is "the promise we keep to ourselves," not a wall against someone else
• The four things boundaries can protect: behavior, attention, bandwidth, and inner child work
• Why boundaries can feel violent or shameful, and what's happening in the nervous system when they do
• A real story about a birthday boundary, and what it took to actually hear it
• Negotiating a boundary around timeliness, and why it isn't a black-and-white issue
• People-pleasing, fawning, and how socialization (especially as women) shapes our relationship to boundaries
• Generational differences in boundary-setting, and what it's like watching Gen Z do it differently
• A Lovers tarot pull on choosing yourself first

Reflection Questions

• Using the BEAT framework, is there a boundary you've been putting off setting?
• Is there a boundary that was set with you that, looking back, you can now understand differently?
• Where did you first learn (or not learn) how to set a boundary?
• Is there a relationship where you've gone quiet instead of naming what you actually needed?

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🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com
🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more.

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Attachment style usually gets talked about in the context of dating and romance. Rarely do we turn that same lens on friendship, even though it shapes those relationships just as much.

In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle break down the four attachment styles, secure, anxious, avoidant, and disorganized, and where they come from developmentally. Then they turn the framework on themselves, getting honest about which styles they've each brought to their friendship, including a moment from that very week when one of them wanted to retreat instead of saying "I'm not okay."

This isn't a diagnosis of who's the anxious friend and who's the avoidant one. It's a look at how the earliest relationships in our lives help to script the ones we're in now, and what it takes to write a new ending.

In This Episode

• What secure, anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment actually look like in friendship
• Why attachment style forms in early childhood, and why it's not a life sentence
• The overlap (and difference) between anxious attachment and generalized anxiety
• Danyelle on disorganized attachment, avoidance, and how birth order shaped her patterns
• Michelle on the anxious-secure overlap and the practice of asking "is this true, or is this a story?"
• How enmeshed or overly independent caregiving in childhood shows up as attachment style in adulthood
• A real-time example of moving from avoidance into secure attachment, mid-friendship
• The role of Nonviolent Communication in shifting attachment patterns
• A judgment tarot pull on self-forgiveness for the ways we've shown up imperfectly

Reflection Questions

• Which of the four attachment styles do you resonate with most, and does it shift depending on the relationship?
• Is there a friendship where you notice yourself pulling away when things get close? What do you think that protects you from?
• When you feel that anxious pull to seek reassurance, is it rooted in this relationship or in an old pattern?
• What did your caregivers model for you about closeness, independence, and asking for what you need?
• Is there a conversation you've been avoiding with a friend the way Danyelle almost avoided one this week?

Resources

• Take the attachment style quiz at theattachmentproject.com
• Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg (recurring framework; workbooks available by subscribing to our newsletter)
• What It Takes to Heal by Prentis Hemphill
• I Hope We Choose Love: A Trans Girl’s Notes from the End of the World by Kai Cheng Thom
• Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment by Amir Levine & Rachel Heller
• Wired for Love by Stan Tatkin
• Queerly Attached Podcast with Kyleigh Weathers
• Essays and writing on relational accountability by Adrienne Maree Brown
  
  

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🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com
🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation going about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other.

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Friendship breakups are one of the most painful experiences we can go through and one of the least talked about. There's no ceremony, no bereavement leave, no socially agreed-upon way to grieve someone who is still out there, still living their life, but no longer in yours.

In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle give friendship endings the space they almost never get. From the slow, quiet outgrowing to the abrupt and unexplained rupture, they share personal stories from both sides: Danyelle on stepping into more of herself and leaving a friend group behind, and Michelle on a sudden rejection at 16. Together they explore what disenfranchised grief looks like in friendship, why avoidance is so common and sometimes even kind, and what it takes to move through loss in your body rather than around it.

This isn't a guide to ending friendships. It's an invitation to stop pretending the ones that end didn't matter.

In This Episode

• The difference between the "quiet outgrowing" and the "clean cut" and why one doesn't necessarily hurt less
• Why friendship grief is disenfranchised: the loss society doesn't make room for
• Avoidance as a trauma response and why it can sometimes be the kindest thing two people do
• The ways childhood shapes how we handle conflict, rejection, and letting go
• How lockdown quietly accelerated friendships that were already ending
• Unsent letters as a grief and release practice
• Somatic healing and why the only way out is through
• Water rituals for releasing grief and creating space
• Danyelle's cut-and-clear candle ritual: what it is, how to do it, and why it works energetically
• Inner child work and re-parenting in the context of letting go
• How to know when a friendship is worth repairing, and when walking away is the most loving thing
• Trusting your body's yeses and nos as a North Star in relationships

Reflection Questions

• Is there a friendship ending you've never fully grieved? What would it mean to give it space now?
• Which side of the friendship breakup do you more often find yourself on — the one who drifts, or the one who gets drifted from?
• Is there a relationship in your life right now where your body is giving you information your mind hasn't caught up to yet?
• What would a closing ritual look like for a friendship that ended without one?
• Where in your life are you treating yourself the way your caregivers taught you to — ignoring your own needs, staying past your yes?

Resources Mentioned

• We mentioned The Body Keeps the Score in the episode by Bessel van der Kolk, but also want to share this article (content note: discusses sexual assault), which discusses the reality that, among other things, some of van der Kolks methodologies "could make survivors feel like they are irrevocably harmed." Instead we'd like to point you to Somatic Abolitionism by Dr. Resmaa Menakem and What My Bones Know by Stephanie Foo.
• The Bullet Journal Method by Ryder Carroll (referenced by Michelle)
• Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg (recurring framework; workbooks available by subscribing to our newsletter)
• Jessica Lanyadoo (referenced by Danyelle; source of "meat suit" concept)
• Cut-and-clear candle ritual (folk magic/hoodoo tradition) - Workbook coming soon!

Connect With Us
📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod
🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com
🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other going.

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Here are the show notes for Episode 4:

Race is something every interracial friendship encounters, but most of us were never given the tools or the language to talk about it honestly.

In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle go somewhere they've been circling for 26 years: a real, unfiltered conversation about race as it has lived inside their friendship. From growing up in Marin County, one of the most racially disparate counties in California, to navigating colorblindness, respectability politics, internalized anti-Blackness, and the slow, ongoing work of unlearning, they trace how their racial identities shaped them individually and what it has taken to show up for each other across difference.

This isn't a race 101. It's their story, and an invitation to look honestly at your own.

In This Episode

• Growing up in Marin County and what the data actually shows about race and inequality there
• Colorblindness as a dominant framework in the 1990s and why it fell short
• Respectability politics and internalized anti-Blackness
• Conflating race and class and what that cost both of them
• The difference between performative allyship and genuine solidarity
• Psychological safety, microaggressions, and overt racism in "safe" spaces
• How 2020 opened the door to conversations they hadn't been having in real time
• The birthday party story: a moment of harm, hard feelings, and real repair
• What it looks like to warn a partner before walking into a predominantly white space
• Making agreements inside a friendship to share information and honor each other's safety
• How cross-racial friendship requires ongoing labor, and why that labor is a form of love
• Healing that reaches backward and forward across lineages

Reflection Questions

• What does your friend circle actually look like, and what does that tell you?
• Have you ever confused class with race in your own understanding of the world?
• Is there a moment in a cross-racial relationship where harm was caused and never named?
• What would it look like to move from performative allyship to genuine solidarity?
• What agreements could you make with someone you love to help them feel safer in shared spaces?

Resources Mentioned

• Mahogany Tarot deck
• Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg (referenced framework for repair conversation, workbooks available by subscribing to our newsletter)
• Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hersey, founder of Nap Ministry
• Me and White Supremacy by Layla Saad
• My Grandmother's Hands by Resmaa Menakem
• All About Love by Bell Hooks
• Peggy McIntosh, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack"
• Tema Okun, "White Supremacy Culture"
• Code Switch (NPR)
• Seeing White (Scene on Radio)

Connect With Us

📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod
 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com
 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and join the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other across difference.

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Conflict is something every relationship encounters, but most of us were never taught how to navigate it well.

In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle explore the ways they learned conflict growing up, how those early experiences shaped their friendships and relationships, and the communication tools they've adopted to create more connection and less defensiveness.

Together, they break down the framework of Nonviolent Communication (NVC) developed by Marshall Rosenberg and discuss how it has transformed the way they approach difficult conversations, emotional triggers, repair, and accountability.

They also share personal stories from their own friendship, including moments of jealousy, misunderstanding, postpartum vulnerability, and the ways learning new communication skills has helped strengthen their connection over time.

In This Episode

•  How childhood experiences shape our conflict styles 
•  Loud conflict, avoidance, and people-pleasing 
•  The impact of shame, martyrdom, and the need to be right 
•  An introduction to Nonviolent Communication (NVC) 
•  Observation vs. judgment 
•  Identifying feelings beneath reactions 
•  Understanding and communicating needs 
•  Making clear, actionable requests 
•  Conflict, nervous system regulation, and the Window of Tolerance 
•  Internal Family Systems (IFS) and protective parts 
•  Friendship repair and relational accountability 
•  Why conflict can become an opportunity for deeper connection 

The NVC Framework

1. Observation — What happened without judgment or evaluation 
2. Feeling — Identifying the primary emotion underneath the reaction 
3. Need — Understanding the unmet need driving the emotion 
4. Request — Making a clear and actionable request 

Resources Mentioned

• Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg
•  Internal Family Systems (IFS) 
•  Window of Tolerance framework 
•  The Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy

Reflection Questions

•  How did you learn conflict growing up? 
•  What role do you typically play during disagreements? 
•  What feelings tend to sit underneath your frustration or anger? 
•  What need might be asking for attention? 
•  Is there a request you haven't made because you've hoped someone would simply know? 

Connect With Us

📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod

🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com

🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people discover the show and join the conversation around friendship, growth, and modern relationships.

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What if friendship isn't the supporting character in your life story?

What if it's one of the most important relationships you'll ever have?

In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle explore the inspiration behind The Third Thing and why they believe platonic love deserves far more attention than our culture often gives it.

Using their own 26-year friendship as a lens, they discuss how society tends to place romantic relationships at the center of our lives while overlooking the profound impact of friendship, community, and chosen family.

From childhood messages about love to the realities of adulthood, partnership, parenting, loneliness, and rebuilding community after the pandemic, this conversation is an invitation to think differently about connection.

In This Episode

•  The question that sparked the creation of The Third Thing
•  Why friendship can hold unique pieces of our identity 
•  The cultural prioritization of romantic love 
•  Disney, rom-coms, and the stories we inherit about relationships 
•  Relationship anarchy and expansive love 
•  Why one person can't be everything 
•  The impact of the pandemic on friendship and belonging 
•  The loss of third spaces and community gathering places 
•  Adult loneliness and social disconnection 
•  Building and maintaining your village 
•  The cost of deprioritizing friendship 
•  Why platonic love is a form of healing 

Concepts Discussed

•  Relationship Anarchy 
•  Chosen Family 
•  Community Care 
•  Adult Friendship 
•  Third Spaces 
•  Loneliness and Social Connection 
•  Expansive Love 
•  Interdependence vs. Independence 

Reflection Questions

•  If you woke up tomorrow with no memory, who would you trust to tell you who you are? 
•  How much time and energy are you currently investing in friendship? 
•  Have you unintentionally prioritized romantic relationships over platonic ones? 
•  Where might there be opportunities for repair, reconnection, or deeper intimacy in your friendships? 
•  What would it look like to intentionally build your village? 

Resources Mentioned

• Ray Oldenburg and the concept of "Third Spaces" 
•  Relationship Anarchy 
•  Community care and village-building practices 

Card Pull: The High Priestess

The episode closes with a reflection on the High Priestess tarot card—an invitation to trust your intuition, deepen your self-knowledge, and listen to what your relationships are asking of you.

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📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod

🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com

🎧 Join our Patreon community for deeper conversations, monthly gatherings, workbooks, and early access to new episodes.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend, send a text to someone you've been thinking about, or leave a rating and review to help more people discover the show.

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What if friendship deserves the same care, commitment, and investment that we give to romantic relationships?

In the very first episode of The Third Thing, Michelle and Danyelle introduce the concept at the heart of the podcast: The Third Thing.

While we often celebrate romantic love and assume familial love will always be there, friendship is frequently treated as optional. Yet some of the most meaningful, transformative, and enduring relationships in our lives are platonic.

Drawing from their 26-year friendship, Michelle and Danyelle share how they met, the life experiences that shaped them, and why they believe friendship is one of the most powerful forms of connection available to us.

They discuss community care, belonging, identity, healing, conflict, and the work required to sustain meaningful relationships over time.

In This Episode

•  What inspired The Third Thing
•  Defining the "third kind of love" 
•  Why friendship deserves intentional investment 
•  The differences between romantic, familial, and platonic love 
•  How Michelle and Danyelle met as teenagers 
•  Growing up feeling different and finding belonging 
•  Friendship as a source of healing and support 
•  The realities of maintaining a 26-year friendship 
•  Why conflict and repair matter in long-term relationships 
•  Community care and radical friendship 

Meet Your Hosts

Danyelle

•  Psychotherapist 
•  Community builder 
•  Tarot practitioner and spiritual guide 
•  Advocate for community care and collective healing 

Michelle

•  Executive coach and strategist 
•  Life coach 
•  MBA graduate and former nonprofit leader 
•  Champion of intentional relationships and personal growth 

Together, they bring professional expertise, lived experience, and decades of friendship into conversations about what it means to build meaningful relationships in modern life.

Reflection Questions

•  What is "The Third Thing" in your life? 
•  Which friendships have helped shape who you are? 
•  Are there relationships that deserve more attention or investment? 
•  How do you currently nurture your platonic connections? 
•  What might become possible if friendship were treated as a priority rather than an afterthought? 

Card Pull: Nine of Cups

The episode closes with the Nine of Cups, a tarot card associated with fulfillment, contentment, gratitude, and celebrating what you've built. A fitting card for the beginning of a new chapter and a reflection on the beauty of enduring friendship.

Connect With Us

📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod

🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com

🎧 Join our Patreon community for deeper conversations, monthly gatherings, exclusive content, workbooks, and early access to episodes.

If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people discover the show and join the conversation around friendship, community, and connection.

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Podcast launching June 16th!

There are three kinds of love. There's romantic love, the one that gets the songs, the movies, the couples therapy, the date nights, and all the vacations. There's familial love, the one you're born into, that shapes you before you even know what love is. The relationships that are expected to last forever. 

And then there's The Third Thing: Friendship. The relationships that often get the least attention but do some of the heaviest lifting. 

The Third Thing is a podcast about that love. A podcast about friendship in all its fullness. The conflict worth repairing, the evolution worth honoring, and sometimes...the letting go.

Hosted by Danyelle, a therapist, healer, and Hoodoo practitioner, and Michelle, a life coach, facilitator, and public speaker. We've been friends for 26 years and we've got the receipts!

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