Cleave: The Podcast

The Truth About Glinda: When ‘Good’ Becomes Wicked


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Wicked is not the story we all thought it was.
In this episode of Cleave, I break down the emotional and psychological layers inside one of Broadway’s biggest hits — and why its message hits differently as an adult.
We talk:
• the Wizard’s manipulation
• Glinda’s toxic charm
• the recipe for creating a scapegoat
• the cost of choosing integrity
• and why Elphaba is one of the most important “heroes” we have today
I also share how this story mirrors real patterns my wife and I have lived through — and why so many of us find ourselves cast as villains the moment we stand up to dysfunction.
If you’ve ever defied gravity in your own life, you’ll feel seen in this one.

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Cleave: The PodcastBy Jon and Ashley Lefrandt