The Unlearning Curve

83 - You Don’t Owe Everyone a Relationship

Some relationships are chosen. Others arrive preloaded with expectations, roles, and a quiet assumption that you’re supposed to keep showing up forever.

In this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Stuart Delony, Karl Forehand, and JD talk about relationships, autonomy, and what happens when connection starts feeling more like obligation than choice.

The conversation begins with Fritz Perls’ reminder that none of us are here to live up to someone else’s expectations. From there, we dig into the roles we inherit through family, church, community, friendship, and social convention—and how easily those roles can masquerade as genuine connection.

Karl shares a story about realizing he didn’t actually have to maintain a relationship simply because circumstances had put someone in his orbit. That opens up a broader question: if a relationship only survives because someone feels obligated to stay in it, what exactly are we preserving?

We also talk about belonging and the price people often pay for it. Communities can offer connection, but they can also demand conformity. And if staying connected requires constantly editing yourself into a version other people find acceptable, the relationship may already be costing more than it gives.

Because connection means something precisely because it can be chosen.

In this episode:

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns.

We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to share your thoughts, concerns, and any necessary corrections with Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

82 - If God Wrote the Bible, It Should Be Better

If the Bible is supposed to be the perfect word of God, why does it look so much like something written by people?

In this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Stuart Delony, Karl Forehand, and JD take on biblical authority, inspiration, and the assumptions many Christians inherit about scripture without ever being encouraged to examine them.

The conversation starts with a simple challenge: if God wrote the Bible, shouldn’t it be better?

From there, we dig into contradictions, historical context, patriarchal interpretations, and the problem with treating a collection of ancient writings as though it were a single, seamless instruction manual for every person in every century.

We also talk about what gets lost when letters written to specific communities are turned into universal commands. Pulling one passage out of context and declaring it eternally binding can look a lot like grabbing one email from the middle of a long thread and insisting you now understand the whole conversation.

And beneath all of it is a larger question: when Christians say “the Bible says,” who actually gets to decide what the Bible means?

Because interpretation never disappears. Someone is always choosing which passages matter, which context gets ignored, which contradictions need explaining, and which ancient instructions somehow still apply.

In this episode:

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns.

We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to share your thoughts, concerns, and any necessary corrections with Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

Dolly Parton: Faith, Generosity, and a Life Bigger Than Dogma

Dolly Parton spent her life talking openly about faith. Somehow, she also avoided turning it into a weapon.

In this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Stuart Delony, Karl Forehand, and JD reflect on Dolly Parton’s life, legacy, and the version of Christianity she embodied—one built less around policing other people and more around actually loving them.

We talk about Dolly’s journey from poverty in East Tennessee to global fame, her remarkable generosity, the Imagination Library, and her willingness to remain inclusive even when parts of her Christian audience pushed back.

There’s also the business side of Dolly: an artist who could be generous without pretending her work had no value. From retaining control of her music to refusing deals that required giving away ownership, she showed that kindness and boundaries aren't mutually exclusive.

And beneath it all is a larger question: Why did Dolly’s faith seem so different from the Christianity that dominates so much of American public life?

Maybe because she spent considerably less time deciding who deserved love and considerably more time giving it.

In this episode:

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to share your thoughts, concerns, and any necessary corrections with Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

The Unlearning Curve is a conversation about dismantling what we inherited, keeping what matters, and figuring out what comes next.

What happens when the faith meant to save you becomes the thing you need to escape?

In this episode of The Unlearning Curve, we sit down with Rev. Heather Foy—writer, podcast host, and advocate for people navigating life beyond high-control religion.

Heather grew up in her father’s church, surrounded by rigid theology, authoritarian structures, and religious abuse. Her eventual path through deconstruction and seminary forced her to confront the distance between what churches claim to believe and how they often treat people who don’t fit neatly inside the system.

We talk about religious trauma, shame, gender roles, cult-like dynamics in high-control churches, and the connection Heather sees between Christian nationalism and authoritarian religion. We also dig into something deceptively difficult: learning to listen to people whose experiences challenge the theology you inherited.

Because sometimes unlearning isn’t about abandoning everything you believed.

It’s about figuring out what was actually worth keeping.

Topics include:

Join Stuart, Karl, and JD for a conversation about faith, freedom, and what happens when you finally give yourself permission to question the system.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to share your thoughts, concerns, and any necessary corrections with Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

79 - VBS Is Grooming? The Double Standard of Indoctrination

On this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Stuart, Karl, and JD dig into the argument behind Stuart’s article, VBS Is Grooming, and the uncomfortable similarities between religious outreach, indoctrination, and the broader process of shaping children’s beliefs before they’re equipped to question them.

The conversation starts with an important distinction: indoctrination isn’t simply teaching someone what you believe, and grooming isn’t limited to sexual abuse. Both can involve creating trust, controlling alternatives, normalizing expectations, and making certain beliefs or behaviors feel inevitable.

From Vacation Bible School and church camps to public education, the guys examine a striking cultural double standard. Churches openly design programs to bring children into a particular worldview and call it outreach. Meanwhile, many of the same religious communities accuse teachers of “indoctrinating” kids simply for acknowledging diversity, inclusion, or viewpoints they don’t approve of.

So what makes one influence acceptable and the other dangerous?

Maybe the answer has less to do with whether children are being influenced—and more to do with who gets to do the influencing.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

78 - Your Faith Is Not My Law

On this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Stuart, Karl, and Jordan start with Jordan’s recent trip to Malaysia and its dual legal system, where civil law exists alongside Sharia law for Muslims. That leads to a larger question: if Christians in America want laws based on their religious beliefs, why should everyone else have to live under them?

The conversation moves through Christian nationalism, the separation of church and state, the mythology of Christian persecution, and the gap between claiming religious freedom and demanding political control.

They also look at the real-world consequences of policies shaped by conservative religious ideology, particularly around sex education, healthcare, poverty, and personal autonomy.

At the center of it all is a simple distinction: you are free to practice your religion. You are not entitled to make everyone else practice it too.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

77 - When Churches Handle Crimes Like Sin

On this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Stuart, Karl, and Jordan dig into how churches—particularly high-control evangelical environments—have handled allegations of sexual abuse, and why the process so often protects institutions and people with power rather than victims.

The conversation looks at the biblical and cultural assumptions underneath those systems: confronting your offender, taking the matter to male church leadership, pressure to forgive, fear of damaging the church’s reputation, and the tendency to treat criminal behavior as “sexual sin” that can be handled internally.

They also examine the deeper problem: when scripture, authority, and institutional self-preservation all occupy the same room, accountability can disappear remarkably fast.

Sexual assault does not become less criminal because it happened inside a church. And forgiveness is not an investigative procedure.

Content note: This episode includes discussion of sexual assault, rape, and abuse within religious communities.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

76 - Caleb Mayfield - What Outlasts the Church

On this episode of The Unlearning Curve, Caleb Mayfield joins the conversation to talk about old friendships, sudden loss, and what pushed him to start reconnecting with people he’d let drift away. Along the way, the conversation wanders back through childhood, youth group, and the realization that sometimes what mattered most about church wasn’t the theology — it was having somewhere to go and people who knew your name.

It’s a conversation about grief, connection, growing up, and the relationships that can outlast the systems where we first found them.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

75 - Naming the Chaos

Understanding Chaos: Is Naming It Helpful or Hindering?

In this session, we tackle the age-old question: does naming something help us understand it, or does it limit our comprehension? The discussion begins with an acknowledgment of the chaos in the universe and our innate desire to impose order through language. As Stuart Delony points out, using the term "God" to explain chaos can warp our understanding of both God and the chaos itself. When we label everything as divine, we risk losing sight of reality and the nuances of our experiences.

The Human Need for Patterns

As humans, we are hardwired to create patterns and stories. This need stems from our evolutionary past where recognizing patterns could mean the difference between life and death. However, when we start imposing rigid definitions and narratives, we may find ourselves trapped in a box that limits our understanding. Jordan shares insights on how the internet creates a dangerous landscape where people seek definitive answers without context, leading to misunderstandings and mislabeling.

The Comfort of Certainty vs. The Challenge of Chaos

Carl the Great emphasizes the comfort that comes with certainty, especially in faith and politics. He illustrates how people cling to narratives that fit their worldview, often ignoring contradictions that might challenge their beliefs. This tendency can create a false sense of security, as he explains, leading to oversimplified views of complex issues.

Embracing Complexity in Relationships

In discussing personal relationships, Carl reflects on his 38-year marriage, highlighting that while growth is apparent, chaos and confusion often linger. He argues that it’s essential to embrace this chaos rather than seek to explain it away. Accepting that life is not always logical can lead to deeper connections and understanding, both with ourselves and others.

The Spiritual Dimension: Finding Meaning in Chaos

Stuart shares a personal anecdote from his time as a river guide, where he learned to embrace the unpredictable nature of the water. This metaphor highlights the spiritual journey we all undertake, facing chaos without the need to control it. Recognizing our smallness in the vastness of the universe can be both humbling and liberating.

The Dangers of Oversimplification

The conversation shifts to the dangers of oversimplifying complex issues, particularly in the context of significant events like 9/11. Stuart argues that searching for divine meaning in tragedies can prevent us from confronting uncomfortable truths about ourselves and our societies. Instead of seeking scapegoats or easy explanations, we must engage with the complexities of reality to foster genuine understanding and growth.

Conclusion: The Path Forward

As we wrap up this thought-provoking discussion, it becomes clear that embracing chaos, rather than fearing it, is crucial for personal and collective growth. By allowing ourselves to experience uncertainty and engage with complex realities, we open the door to deeper understanding and connection.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

In today's fast-paced world, finding genuine love seems harder than ever. With the rise of dating apps and a culture of instant gratification, many struggle to forge deep, lasting connections. In this blog post, we'll explore insights from a discussion among hosts Stuart Delony, Karl the Great, and Jordan as they delve into the complexities of love, based on Eric Fromm's classic book, "The Art of Loving." We'll unpack the meaning of love as an art form, its various definitions, and how to navigate relationships in a society that often treats love as a commodity.

Understanding Love as an Art

Love is often discussed in abstract terms, but what does it mean to treat love as an art? Stuart Delony opens the conversation by suggesting that love is not merely a feeling, but a commitment involving vulnerability and consistency. He emphasizes that real love requires effort and dedication, moving beyond fleeting emotions to build a solid relationship. This perspective aligns with the idea that love involves nurturing and growth, similar to mastering a craft.

The Consumer Mindset and Love

Jordan introduces the critical notion that modern society's consumer mentality affects our understanding of love. In a world where everything is available at the click of a button, relationships often suffer from superficiality. Fromm critiques this capitalist view, suggesting that love should not be transactional. Instead, it should be about genuine connection and mutual respect. As the hosts reflect on their experiences, they highlight how this mindset can lead to unrealistic expectations and disappointment in relationships.

Navigating Different Definitions of Love

The discussion also touches on the various definitions of love, particularly within religious contexts. Karl the Great points out the confusion often found in church teachings about love. He notes that the term "love" can mean different things depending on the context—ranging from romantic love to brotherly love. This ambiguity can lead to misunderstandings about how to express love in our lives. The hosts encourage readers to define love for themselves, recognizing that it can encompass commitment, respect, kindness, and patience.

The Challenges of Love in Relationships

As the conversation progresses, the hosts tackle the hard realities of love, including the challenges and discomforts that arise in relationships. They discuss the importance of addressing difficult issues openly and honestly. Karl emphasizes that love involves commitment but also requires addressing systemic issues in relationships. This commitment to honesty and authenticity can be challenging but is crucial for fostering a healthy partnership.

Key Takeaways

Conclusion

Understanding love as an art form invites us to approach relationships with intention and depth. By rejecting superficial definitions and embracing the complexities of love, we can cultivate meaningful connections in our lives. As you reflect on your relationships, consider how you can apply these insights to nurture authentic love.

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2026 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning transparently, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.