The Unpacked Project

Today we're joined by Asia Johnson from The Bail Project,  listen in as we discuss the oppressive realities of America's cash bail system.

Transcription and references can be found here. 

Noelle: American taxpayers pay $14 billion each year to incarcerate people pre trial. So, [...] before they've even ever been convicted of anything. And meanwhile, the $2 billion bail industry extracts money from precisely those communities that have the fewest resources. 

.

.

Asia: [...] So with The Bail Project, I started two years ago, 2000...well it's almost coming up on two years. I started in January 2019. And prior to my work with The Bail Project, I myself was formerly incarcerated. And so I remember sitting in a cell with a girl whose bond was fairly low, or to the average American, you would think that $500 isn't a lot of money, but her family could not afford it. And she actually sat in jail for over a month until her case came to a close. And so her charges were eventually dismissed and I just remember having that sit with me--wow, somebody is sitting in jail simply because they don't have money. And I also remember the Kalief Browder story, and we all know how tragic that story was. And what the cash bail system is, is a humanitarian crisis in our jails, but also a constitutional crisis in our courts. The presumption of innocence has been stripped from people, and keeping them in these cages when they haven't been convicted of anything is a tragedy. [...] Historically, bail was designed to ensure that those accused of a crime would come back to court. It was never meant to be a punishment, it was never meant to have our jails filled to the max, [with] people who haven't been convicted of anything. But that is exactly what bail has become, it has become a punishment. It was supposed to be affordable, but you know, right now the average American can barely afford a $400 emergency expense and the average bill amount is over $400. And so what we see is that this industry has become about money and less about human lives. And it creates a two tiered system in the justice system, one that benefits those with money, and the repercussions of not having money, which will mean that you sit in a jail cell until your day in court. And that could be weeks, months, and sometimes even years. [...]And so the cash bail system really does wreak havoc on those that are affected by it. 

Miranda: And you know, on any given day nearly half a million people really are in jail cells across America, just waiting for their criminal cases to move forward. And people in pre trial detention now make up more than two thirds of America's jail population, which is just--it's crazy to me. Like you said, even though they're presumed innocent until guilty, they still suffer the harms of incarceration unless they have enough money to pay bail and ultimately buy their freedom. 

Asia: You know, we come from a standpoint that pretrial incarceration should ONLY be for extreme cases where that person poses an imminent threat to themselves or to the community--an imminent threat of violence. [...] Money should not be the determining factor on whether somebody is free or not. And we see with our work with The Bail Project that people return to court even when they don't have money on the line. 90% of our clients return to court and it's not because they have skin in the game, it's because their needs were met. And so the idea that money will bring people back, I think that is outdated. 

.

.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system. 

Michelle Perin joins us from CAHOOTS (Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Street) to discuss their model in place for creating social safety nets within our communities. 

Full transcription and references here

Michelle: CAHOOTS is actually part of a larger organization, White Bird Clinic, which started out of the counterculture of the 1960s. So about 1969, in Eugene, Oregon. The founders were looking for more humanistic service model for social and medical issues that were occurring during the day. And they didn't really see anything that was matching what they wanted. So they started one. So they wanted to make sure that they were providing these services, which included crisis services, they had walk in and telephone crisis services at the time. Around 1989 they had a small crisis unit that was starting to go out into the field to meet people, and a conversation got started with the police. The name is kind of tongue in cheek, you know, the police were going to be in cahoots with a bunch of hippies and the hippies were going to be in cahoots with a bunch of police. So it kind of stuck [...] So that's kind of how we became a department of Whiteboard Clinic. They've continued to provide a lot of services that are really important to us doing our work in- homeless department, medical, dental, behavioral health and substance use counseling, day use centers, and still have a very robust walk in and telephone crisis services.

.

"In 2019, CAHOOTS went out on 20,746, public initiated calls for service--so just under 20,800 calls. Of these 13,854 were CAHOOTS only calls. So 13,854 times the police did not go and talk to somebody, we just went and talked to somebody. And often we don't need to have anything. We don't need to have another responder come out to handle whatever the situation is." Michelle

.

Noelle: When we think about this, you know, the type of approach that you guys are using, some people may think it's more expensive to provide stabilization, psychologic crisis management services. It seems like adding an extra layer. But the truth is that it actually could save police departments a lot of money, it's just more about diverting services to the correct places and having the correct people respond. So from a financial standpoint, can you share how much of taxpayer dollars were actually saved in Eugene, from having this type of a program?

Michelle: It's really hard to quantify. It's hard because it's not really apples or oranges. I know in the beginning, there was talk of funding 24 hours of Cahoots was the same as funding like two or three officers, but it's hard to try to figure out what that actually looks like, as far as cost. I did read somewhere that somebody had estimated that it's about an $8 million savings, and we only charged a million dollars. So we're pretty inexpensive considering if you're just looking at the dollars. And also there, we do have numbers that show that we did save an additional 8 million in health care costs, because we definitely look at what we do as a public health crisis. Like this is a public health crisis. It's not just a public safety issue. 

.

Join us for season 1 as we explore bias,  systemic racism, the roots of oppression, and barriers found within education and the criminal system. Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram  the_unpackedproject.

Restorative practices may have one of the strongest value adds to our society, our communities, and to individuals...both those that have experienced harm and those that have caused it. Join us as we discuss the power of restorative practices with Keith Hickman, the Director of Collective Impact with the International Institute of Restorative Practice as he helps us unpack today. 

Show references and full transcription here

.

.

Keith: An approach that focuses on repairing relationships and the harm caused by crime, while holding offenders accountable, restorative practices provides an opportunity for the parties directly affected by crime--victims and survivors, offenders and their communities, to really identify and address their needs in the aftermath of the crime. So, families tend to be those who are most harmed in these cases. So victims have an improved perception of fairness and greater satisfaction, improve attitudes towards juvenile offenders and adult offenders, and they're more willing to forgive the offender and are more likely to feel that the outcome was just [for more than] just the victim that caused the harm.

.

.

Keith: Restorative practice strengthens relationships between these individuals as well as social connectedness within the community. And then, restorative practice can also help to increase people's personal and collective efficacy doing the work. These positive outcomes influence a sense of community. People with greater sense of community are more likely to act in healthy ways and work with others to promote the well being for all. And so the proactive aspects of restorative practice focus on building the community before a problem arises, rather than responding after problems occur. So this is important prevention work. And that's important to the field of public health and community health--to improve the social determinants in a community. And you can see, we're starting to use language, not only just restorative practice language, but other language to really foster how these two things can operate as a multi modal approach. And so when used as universal prevention strategy for everyone in the community, regardless of any specific risk factors that may or may not exist, restorative practice really can help create the social conditions for people to be healthier and have greater well being.

.

.

Keith: It just proves the point that, you know, it really is about relationships and how we help people find their human dignity, and how do we give human dignity back to those that are harmed. And so restorative practices, it's really been proven to be an effective approach. 

Miranda: Yeah, I mean, so what I'm hearing is everyone should be utilizing restorative practices! 

Keith: Yea, as much as you can, yeah! I mean, you know, it's not the silver--it's not the fix it all, but it is a process and a way to communicate and find a language, and deal with vulnerability and rebuild trust in order to take those steps, right?

.

.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system. 

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos. 

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

With a focus on repair rather than punishment, NOBLE Williams helps us unpack ways to use restorative justice as a means to create pathways for accountability and healing.

.

.

.

CHOICE, and Alternative to Incarceration program

Everyday Boston

Restorative Practices

Restorative Justice

Healing circle guide

IG: @ecwilliams817

[email protected]

.

.

.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos.

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

On today's episode Dr. Audrey Brutus, a Culturally Responsive Education Specialist, helps us unpack how disciplinary policies are creating disproportionate outcomes for Students of Color.

Full transcription and references available here. 

Dr. Brutus: So the gist of the workshops that I do around cultural responsiveness and what it means to be culturally responsive is really to send a pretty concrete message that there's not-it's not a list of strategies. It's not a list of things that I'm going to give you and then you go ahead and do, and all of a sudden you'll have a culturally responsive classroom and everything is great. It's a way of being. It's an essence of who you are and what you bring to the classroom, and a lens that you're building your lesson plans from. That you're looking at the curriculum, that you're teaching your students and the language that you're using, how you view inappropriate behaviors. It's a whole way of being. And really getting people to kind of understand that and unpack that is really a big part of my role in those kind of workshops.

Noelle: Yeah, it makes me think at least, that this would be work that I would hope our education system and lots of societal systems start doing on the front end. [...] Not waiting for there to be these outcomes, you know, but that we start trying to-like you were talking about-equity committees, and starting to try to do these things just as our natural processes within our systems to try to prevent some of these things from becoming worse. 

.

.

.

Dr. Brutus: The public school system was never really created with students of color in mind. Right? So it's a system that's not designed for them, that was never created for them, and that's why we kind of see that we've never really recovered for that, because we still see Students of Color being mostly taught by predominantly White staff, for the most part, White women tend to be who the teaching staff are. So the idea that Students of Color are being, you know, mostly educated by teachers who don't look like them, teachers who have not had the experience of having to live in a racialized kind of society, and who are, you know, for lack of a better way of putting it, are racially privileged themselves. But they're making these consequential decisions about students and their futures and their lives. So I think all of that definitely plays a role in the inequities that we see in education.

Miranda: Yeah, I mean that's such a great point, a lot-most of our systems were designed for predominantly White, male, cisgender...so all those things. We see that across the board. So, that's a lot, right? [...] where do you even begin, because it feels like a lot.

.

.

.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos.

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

Listen in and learn as Dr. Charles Barrett breaks down how addressing systemic racism and implicit bias in our schools can positively inform how educators and school communities better teach and serve students and families from a social justice lens.  While Dr. Barrett shares his experience from a school psychologist's perspective, these practices are easily translated to various societal systems that continue to overlook the value of understanding the whole person.  

Full transcription and references available here

Dr.  Barrett: There's some research that I recently stumbled upon maybe this summer. It's a Pediatrician in California at Stanford, Dr. Rhea Boyd looks at almost exclusively the intersection of police violence, equity and child health outcomes through a lens of pediatrics and it's fascinating that the different types of exposure to police violence, be it being racially profiled as an individual, exposure to it in the media or in your community, or even watching vicariously through family members or caregivers, being exposed to it has, you know, significant effects on child functioning. So it could be PTSD symptoms, anxieties, poor school performance, attentional impairment, so I think, again, that broader framing of systems that ultimately impact how students perform.

Noelle: And it makes sense, right? Like, when we think about it, you know, you need to have these equitable opportunities to be able to perform right? To be able to gain the skills  and eventually function within these systems. And when I think of our schools, and like you said, you know, that sort of ecological systems approach, I think, particularly in education, when students come in, we expect them to just adapt to our system that we've created. And, you know, we've talked in previous episodes, and you touched on sort of the systemic racism and how societal factors have played into how just even education has played out in our country. 

.

.

.

When equitable outcomes aren't a priority there can never be access and opportunity for all.

.

.

.

Dr. Barrett: So I like to see equity work that involves the broad spectrum of human diversity, whatever that is-race, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, all of those perspectives are valuable and need to be included to inform, you know, what socially just practices need to happen in the school system. Racism is often you know, the big one that we talked about, but there are other types of modularization. So I think having perspectives of people who can speak that is going to be really important. But the common barriers, I think, is that sometimes we think that system change is a grand kind of big deal, and it is, but it oftentimes doesn't start that way. It starts kind of small and it bubbles up to a larger thing. So start in areas that you know you can influence by, again, building coalitions.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos.

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

Anti-bias educator Kristy Leader helps us explore the need to engage families through a culturally responsive and anti-bias framework in education, the positive outcomes for schools and communities when done so, and how imperative it is for change to start now.

Full transcription and references available here

Noelle: Often we might blame families for uninvolvement, such as saying things like-oh, they don't value education, or they just don't care, rather than addressing ways that we can include them. So can you touch on some of these factors that cause family disengagement in the schools?

Kristy: We work with professionals in schools, a lot of times we hear this--okay, you know, these families just don't care. And in my 20 plus years of education, one thing that I can tell you is that I've never met a family that didn't care, and nothing hurts me more. And I think first and foremost, people who work in schools need to really embrace and understand that. There are a variety of reasons why families may not show up in the way that schools want them to show up. And some of those things, I try to think first and foremost of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And if you're familiar with that, it's basically like your food and shelter come first and you really can't get to all the goodies and the self actualization until you feel safe, secure, fed. And so there's a big piece of that with families, so if a family is just working to get food on the table, or to keep their job, and they're worried they're going to get fired for missing a 10am conference at the school-and schools are notorious for making things between nine and three. How accessible are you really making this? So that's the first part of it, are people's needs being met. And then the second part that contributes to disengagement is all the lack of culturally responsive work that people do with families. So a lot of times there's no translation, or meetings are predominantly in English. If you go to one meeting and it's an English, and English isn't your first language, probably, you're not going to arrange for the childcare and get yourself out of the house for a meeting at six at night, just to sit there and hear a meeting in a language that you don't necessarily understand.

A lot of times families don't feel welcomed, and that's a big issue.

Nobody likes feeling like an only, it's a very brave thing to be an only in a room. So if everybody in the room looks very different from you, it may be something that's off putting. It may be a way that you don't really feel comfortable, some families are scared. We see this particularly with undocumented families where they just don't want to draw any attention to themselves. And the other thing is, a lot of families from a cultural standpoint are taught not to really question. A lot of cultures teach you to really respect the teacher, that's not a very American thing, but in some cultures, the teacher really is the end all and there's really nothing to say. And I think, unfortunately, a lot of times school staff see those things as parents not caring or being flippant, and, you know, it's really not that.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos.

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

Join us as Dr. Ashley Williams helps us unpack and discuss the disparities within early childhood education and the need for policy reform for a truly just and equitable ECE system.

Full transcription and resources available here

Miranda: So when we look at K to 12, while in many regards still underpaid, the benefits of ECE pale in comparison, so can you tell us a little bit about why this continues to be an issue?

Ashley: It's an issue because first, the K through 12 workforce is whiter than the ECE workforce, so we have more of a diversity of women of color in the ECE workforce, right? And so that's important to call out and I think one of the clearest examples we can see of this, is this divide-and while people might say, oh it's different or people think differently about K through 12 or ECE, it is an issue of race. Again, like I said, because of the racial makeup of the workforce, especially in California, the clearest example of this devaluation of the ECE workforce versus K through 12 is how it's being treated in this pandemic in this very moment. We see that K through 12 schools are closed, closed immediately, while childcare has remained open, some never closed. And we’re also finding in our studies, particularly in the state of California where programs are still trying to access personal protective equipment, they’re still trying to access cleaning supplies to do this work safely while K through 12 has remained closed. I think another aspect of that is how dollars are distributed. So there's not a lot of public investment in ECE whereas, K-12 is a public good. This is nothing new, we have a deep rooted history of undervaluing labor that's performed by women and people of color. And the prime example of this is slavery. The experiences of enslaved Black women expected to care for White children with priority over their own, their own flesh and blood, and the most deplorable conditions and dehumanizing conditions. And this is the foundation of the creation of child care, so this is how child care was created and we continue to see that in childcare. Childcare is one of the most underpaid professions in this country. So nationally, early educators are in a median wage of $12.12. There's a real thing called #fightfor15, so when I say that the median wage is $12.12 across the nation, we're not even at minimum wage, so they're earning poverty levels and this is true in each state. So, I think in comparison to their K-12 counterparts, early educators are experiencing these poverty rates at 4 to 14 times higher than K through 12 educators. And the wages in K through 12 are also problematic. I'm not saying not to say...both are terrible.

Miranda: But in comparison

Ashley: Right

Noelle: If that's bad then this system is really bad.

Disparities in wages

Disparities in access

Disparities in diversity

Disparities in the value of education

The list goes on...

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within the education and criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos.

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

Join us as we take a deep dive from past to present and discuss the perpetuation of systemic racism, its roots of oppression, and our long road to recovery as we unpack and learn that America's systems are in fact, NOT a go.

Episode transcriptions and show links here.

.

.

Miranda: We're recording today's episode long before you'll hear it. It's September 27th, and the verdict for Breonna Taylor's murder was released this week. Unfortunately, it wasn't surprising, upsetting, disturbing, infuriating, yes. But the US has embedded systemic racism into the very foundation of our country, beginning with enslavement, and we continue to see the deliberate aftermath nearly 160 years later. It is our intention to continue working towards building a more just and compassionate world for all but today for Breonna. So we felt it only right to dedicate today's show to her, and we'd like to start with a moment of silence in honor of her life, because it mattered and it still does.

Roots of oppression are found at every corner where the possibility for equality and fair treatment lies...

The education system

Our housing market

America's prison system and more

Noelle: This American crisis we're in isn't new, and for me I think-I'm always wondering how? How did this and how does this continue to work? I mean, it was so well laid out that when the Nazis were researching ways to keep the Aryan race pure and institutionalize racism in Germany, where did they turn? To the US? We had already perfected this system and the Nazis admired it, they studied it, and they replicated it. And we want to call them out for their inhumanity in Germany, and really, they just copied what we were already doing.

Miranda: I guess America is good at something.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos.

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.

If you’re ready to challenge your bias and begin doing the work,  join us as we explore different types of bias, how it begins, and most importantly-how we can break it. With actionable items, tools and tasks, you’ll walk away with a better understanding of bias and ways in which you can grow.

Full episode transcription here.

Noelle:  These are things that have been studied, there's a lot of research on bias and just looking at these thought processes that people have that are sometimes hard to explain, right? Sometimes they don't even match what our values are in some of these cases, but aside from the research, I think we have our own personal experiences too-especially when I think about this topic. I have so many stories that come to mind, probably from being married to someone who is not White, but my husband is Dominican and I can think of stories that he has shared with me where he's been told, you speak so well I forget that you're Spanish.

Miranda: Oh my God.

Noelle: Or when we moved into our home in a predominantly White neighborhood, he was home and somebody came to sell windows. He opens the door and the person said to him, “Can I speak to the owner of the home?” There’s this automatic assumption that you must not be the person that owns this home. I could sit here and share many stories of things that have happened.

Miranda: And that's where the issue lies.

Noelle: Right.

We’re touching on Similarity Bias, Confirmation Bias, and Representativeness Bias in episode 2. We hope you’ll stay, listen and learn with us.

Miranda: Our brains just have a really interesting way of processing to make sense of things. Some food for thought is the Surgeon's Dilemma. Let's see if you can figure it out. A father and son were involved in a car accident in which the father was killed and the son was seriously injured. The father was pronounced dead at the scene of the accident and his body was taken to a local morgue. The son was taken by ambulance to a nearby hospital and was immediately wheeled into an operating room. The surgeon was called in and upon entering. and seeing the patient, the surgeon gasped-It's my son! Can you explain this and how could this be? So we got answers like-he was adopted at birth, so it's the boy's real father, the father that died was a priest, so he's just called the Father, but the surgeon was his actual father. A couple of people said the boy had two dads. Even that the boy was kidnapped. I don't know how that makes sense, but you know, the mind made sense of it. What was your answer?

Noelle: I said stepfather.

Miranda: I was a little disappointed in you Noelle

Noelle:: Right? Women can be surgeons!

Noelle: All these different levels of society, we all have to own this. We need to engage in really deliberate thought and consciously enacted policies that will motivate behavior and attitude change in the direction that we want as a society. Humanistic equity. And you know, that's really the direction that we need to go.

Join us for season one as we explore bias, systemic racism, the roots of oppression and barriers found within education and the criminal "justice" system.

The Unpacked Project is produced by Vicky Lee with Branding and Marketing by Raquel Avalos. 

Show us some love by liking, subscribing and reviewing our podcast; and to stay up to date, follow us on Instagram at the_unpackedproject.