By Todd Herman
Every great coach needs to grow their coaching skills and their business, but very few have the time or patience to sift through bad content. Join award-winning coach, Todd Herman, as he introduces
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Confidence is just one word: experience.
In this engaging episode of the upcoach podcast, host Todd Herman welcomes Kimmy Seltzer, a renowned confidence and dating coach, and an ex-therapist turned into a transformative guide for those venturing back into the dating scene. Kimmy, with her rich background in therapy and a unique outside-in approach to confidence and dating, shares her profound insights and heartwarming success stories that not only entertain but also inspire.
Kimmy delves into the importance of appearance and body language as the quickest gateway to internal confidence. She introduces listeners to her Charisma Quotient formula, emphasizing "style intelligence" as a foundational step towards building confidence. This innovative approach advocates for a symbiotic relationship between one's outer presentation and inner self-esteem, challenging traditional therapy methods by prioritizing action and experiential learning over analysis.
The episode illuminates Kimmy's personal journey from a therapist to a coach, highlighting her transformative moment with a simple red dress that sparked her mission to help others find confidence and love from the outside in. She shares captivating stories from her coaching experiences, including powerful transformations achieved through wardrobe changes, flirt workshops, and the strategic gamification of dating skills.
Kimmy's work stands out for its focus on practical, tactical advice and the creation of real-world experiences that lead to genuine self-discovery and growth. She champions the idea that confidence is a skill that can be developed through practice and experience, offering hope and actionable strategies to those feeling lost in the dating world. Explore the possibilities that open up when you begin to align your external presence with your internal desires.
I define confidence differently than a lot of people. In my workshop, I'll say, "Well, how do you define confidence?" And I have a list of all these things that people embody and say, "Oh, as someone who stands straight and someone who walks tall," or whatever it is. But at the end of the day, confidence is just one word and that's “experience”. End of story. It is. Like, I don't believe there's one person out there that's not confident. It's just that they, A, haven't had positive exposure to it, right? Or they haven't had experience around it at all. And so how do you get it? You do it. And I mean, I make it sound so simple, but in all my programs, I'm gamifying all my skills constantly. Like instead of saying, "Oh, just go out and flirt." It's like, well, let's just start with making eye contact with three guys a day for two weeks. It's like the gym, right? Like just go do it and repeat. And then once you get more confidence than that, then add a smile.
When I started realizing how we look on the outside also affects the inside and there's a symbiotic relationship between the outer and inner when it comes to confidence. And so now I actually teach people how to gain confidence from the outside in order to attract love. And I start with what I call “style intelligence”, meaning we move through life, how we market ourselves through our wardrobe, our presentation, our first impressions, our body language, that is like the quickest gateway into someone's internal confidence. And so then I work on the inside and I work on emotional intelligence. And then the third pillar is social intelligence, which is interpersonal communication. And yes, that includes flirting.
We all get attracted to playfulness. I always in my workshop define what flirting is. It's fascinating. It's to behave as though you are attracted to someone without the serious intention of an outcome. That last part, not getting attached to the outcome, is huge because everyone doesn't flirt because they're worried about what's next rather than what is. And it's my job to help people really be present and just worry about what is. And once they do that, once they release that, the world opens up.
Should you have more of a delicate touch when you're working with high performers and top achievers while you're coaching and mentoring them? And do platitudes have any place in our coaching and mentoring work that we do with clients? In this insightful episode of the upcoach podcast, host Todd Herman delves into the nuances of coaching high performers with the acclaimed executive coach, Alisa Cohn.
Named the world's top startup coach, Alisa brings her extensive experience working with leaders from successful startups like Venmo and Etsy, as well as giants like Google and Microsoft. The conversation covers the delicate balance required when guiding top achievers, the role of platitudes in coaching, and the transformative power of mantras in initial client interactions.
Alisa, also a celebrated author of "From Start-up to Grown-up," winner of the 2022 Independent Press Award and the 2023 Best Book Award for Entrepreneurship, shares her journey from the corporate world to becoming a globally recognized coach. She discusses her approach to addressing complex people issues and her mantra of adding value in just 20 minutes. With insights from her work with diverse leaders, including the first female minister of Afghanistan and the former Chief Justice of Sri Lanka, Alisa's wisdom is invaluable for anyone in the coaching or leadership field. This episode is a must-listen for coaches, entrepreneurs, and anyone interested in the art of effective leadership and coaching.
The importance of avoiding platitudes in coaching and mentoring
So to me, so many coaches and people who do what we do express themselves in platitudes like, “Oh, my wise thing I'm going to say, “You've got to plan the work so you can work the plan or whatever.” And the problem with that is it just completely negates what it actually takes. The nuanced, difficult step by step work of change that it actually takes for the people I work with, startup founders and other senior executives. And I would just say they've already done the easy things. They've already done the medium things, the hard things really take that inner delicate inner work of understanding what's in the way and using tactics and frameworks to get there, not just overarching platitudes that I think some people write about and talk to their clients about.
The delicate work of coaching
I think that you need to have a delicate touch often to be effective with people. So when I'm interacting with my clients what you might see is an arrogant startup founder. What I see in the sanctity of the coaching room is someone who has topics that we both care a lot about imposter syndrome or somebody who has a confusion about what to do. And if you push them too hard, they shut down or they overcorrect. So the delicacy has to do with, first of all, my relationship with them, my interpersonal skills with them. And second of all, how can they sort of calibrate their style without losing who they are? And that is the delicate work of coaching.
The role of financial background in entrepreneurial space
I would say understanding the finances, but also understanding what it takes to run a business. So young entrepreneurs, when I first meet them, I'm like, “Well, how's the business doing?” “Oh, it's great. It's up and to the right.” Okay. But how do you know it shouldn't be more up and more to the right? What goals and benchmarks? What did you predict was going to happen? How are you kind of finessing or continuing to perfect your system and be able to forecast what's going to happen? What experiments are you running? How are you scoring those experiments? So, you know, the analytics and the metrics, whether or not they're financial, I think that's where I think my expertise comes into play as well to help people understand how they need to structure themselves as they're building something which is kind of careening out of control.
The power of a mantra: Add value in 20 minutes
The one thing I want to share is that I created my mantra, which is “Add value in 20 minutes.” And when I'm meeting with a prospect, also with clients, with anybody, I always have it in my head. I'm here to add value. How can I add value to this person in 20 minutes? And that shows up in a lot of ways. Sometimes it's asking questions that nobody else has asked them. Sometimes it's listening and really hearing the undertones of what they're saying and then mirroring that back to them. Sometimes it's actually sharing a practical tool that they find very helpful. One way or the other, I've been successful, but I've also served my clients by having this idea in my head about how I can add value in 20 minutes.
Welcome to the upcoach podcast, where insightful conversations with industry leaders and experts shape the landscape of personal and professional growth. In this episode, we sit down with Anne Sugar, a distinguished executive coach and speaker, renowned for her transformative work with top leaders in companies such as TripAdvisor, Sanofi Genzyme, and Havas.
Anne's journey is a testament to the dynamic and non-linear nature of career paths. Having previously served as the Senior Vice President of Media at Digitas, overseeing a team of 75 employees and managing media planning for Fortune 500 clients, she brings a wealth of experience to her role as an executive coach. With a BA in Communications from Boston College and coaching certification from iPEC Coaching, Anne seamlessly combines her extensive management background with in-depth coaching methodology.
In this episode, Anne shares valuable insights on the concept of the straight line versus the latticework path in one's career. She challenges the common perception of a linear trajectory and emphasizes the importance of embracing serendipity, patience, and continuous learning to become a substantive leader.
Anne also delves into the topic of coaching authenticity, encouraging coaches to embrace their unique styles. Drawing from her own experience, she highlights the significance of owning who you are as a coach, breaking away from conventional methods, and fostering authenticity to create meaningful connections with clients.
Join us as Anne Sugar shares her wisdom on navigating career trajectories, embracing authenticity in coaching, and refining the art of active listening. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking valuable insights into leadership, coaching, and personal development. Tune in and elevate your understanding of what it takes to be a substantive leader in today's dynamic professional landscape.
Straight line vs. Latticework path
So I think we all think that our careers are going to just go up the mountain like this, right? In this straight trajectory. But it's really not the case. It's a little bit of serendipity. And I ask a lot of people that I coach, “Well, how did you get from here to there?” And people say to me, “Oh, it's just a conversation I had, I wanted to learn something new. I was talking to a friend of mine, somebody reached out to me on LinkedIn and I wanted to kind of take this new role.”
So it kind of is a bit circular, right? In terms of how we kind of bob and weave and a lot of consultants talk about it from a lattice perspective. So I think if we really get to the underpinnings of it, it's really about patience and learning. It's not just this kind of straight rocket ship up, but how do we allow for the patience and the learning. And that's how you become much more of a substantive leader.
Embracing coaching authenticity
It's really just owning who you are as a coach. What does that mean? When I went through coaching school, you had to learn how to ask a question. You went through this very linear process. My brain doesn't work that way. My brain goes to the shiny object. And sometimes it might come across as, you know, kind of swirly. And so I'd always try to live in this linear process of asking a question. But I finally decided, you know what? I'm just gonna own how my brain works. So I think part of it is just as a coach, really just owning your style. And it doesn't matter how everybody else “does” it, just own it.
A coach's perspective on active listening and watching
There are three things that I really look for when I'm listening. And the first one is I try really hard not to formulate my next question or a thought in my head. I try really hard to live in the moment. And I also try really hard to look at people's body language, too, just because body language never lies.
But now I'm going to contradict myself because I kind of love doing that. Sometimes I like to say a frown is just a frown. You as a coach. You're looking for these signals, right? And these you could have a frown that's just like a millisecond on your client's face and you think, “Oh, I just asked the wrong question or maybe I poked too hard on this.”
Ever wondered how executive coaching can be the secret sauce for CEOs and senior leaders to not just survive but thrive in the whirlwind of hypergrowth? Join us in this episode with the incredible Karen Walker, an esteemed executive coach and consultant renowned for her expertise in guiding CEOs and senior leaders through the challenges of hypergrowth.
With an impressive portfolio that includes advising industry giants like Aetna, AWS, Pfizer, JPMorganChase, and BMC Software, as well as nurturing Inc. 5000 startups, Karen brings a wealth of experience to our conversation. Karen's journey is marked by significant milestones, notably her pivotal role as employee 104 at Compaq, where she contributed to transforming the company into the then-fastest growing entity in American history, propelling it from $0 to $15 billion in revenue.
In our discussion, Karen talks about the challenges and dynamics of hypergrowth companies, emphasizing the importance of alignment with investors, a growth-oriented culture, and a high tolerance for ambiguity. Also she introduces a powerful tool — a 2x2 matrix — to simplify complex situations and facilitate strategic conversations, discussing the significance of executive presence and technical skills, highlighting the different personas within each quadrant of the matrix.
Join us in this episode as Karen Walker shares her invaluable insights on navigating hypergrowth, leadership, and organizational development. Get ready for a conversation that promises to be both enlightening and transformative. Stay tuned!
A new chapter in a book: Karen’s unexpected path into coaching and consulting
And I had, as part of the leadership team, a big global job. It wasn't very big when I joined, but it got bigger and I loved it. I really loved that environment. And when I left at the size it was, it was just like another big company. And at least for me, it wasn't a place I wanted to spend the rest of my working life.
So I took some time out to figure out what I really missed. And I missed putting together high performing teams and making them clear what they're doing, why they're doing it and the stuff that gets in the way. And it's almost never the technical stuff. It is almost always people's process and tools.
And, you know, I'm an industrial engineer, so efficiency is sort of part of my DNA and I went back to Columbia. I did their ODHRM programs, I got the theory behind the practice that I knew. And I've been working with CEOs and senior leaders and leadership teams now for the past two decades, primarily in the tech space. I've also worked with a number of Fortune 500 companies, but I'd say my sweet spot tends to be tech.
Elevate or stagnate: No Dumbing Down
A team can only work at the level of the lowest performing member. And what tends to happen when we put teams together is people come in with different levels of expertise, different goals that can often be misaligned, different resources that they're able to bring to bear. And if most of the team is able to perform at this level, but you've got one team member who, for whatever reason, often not their own fault, can only perform at this level, time, resources, skill level, the team can only perform here, right?
Because the team by definition is only going to be successful in their interdependence, so the team has to dumb down. Well, what happens when that occurs? The team is not able to work to its true potential, right, and the organization isn't as well. And so you want a team to pay attention to how they operate, not just what they're doing, which you obviously live as well. But how they operate, how they are chartered, how do they debrief what's going on, how do they make sure that they're aligned in their goals and their ability to hold each other accountable.
The critical pillars of hypergrowth success
I think the first thing and part of what makes the hypergrowth company successful, we obviously have a product market fit and it's what happens after you find your product market fit. Do you have an investor who is aligned with your vision of where you want to go?
Because that is a huge, huge issue if there's no alignment there. Do you have a culture in your organization that is set up to continue this cycle of hypergrowth? Everybody on the team has to be signed up for the sort of effort that it takes to keep that wheel spinning.
The other thing that is so important for working in a hypergrowth company, you have to have a great tolerance for ambiguity and a bias for action. And those are things that are hard for people - to be able to live with the unknown. And so if you're not okay with ambiguity, you will fail. And then of course the bias fraction has to be there in any growth-oriented company.
Navigating the interplay of executive presence and technical skills in a 2x2 matrix
Any executive is in a situation where they are living in a complex world and simplification is often the greatest need. And so a 2x2 matrix will not solve all the world's problems, but it will give us a framework for talking about what's going on. So the two axes are executive presence and technical skills, right? And as someone who does coaching, often there's a tension between those two.
So if we start in the upper left-hand corner, this is someone with high executive presence but low technical skills. I call that “fake it till you make it”. But you aren’t an “empty suit”, which is what can happen if you only have executive presence, but you don't really have the skills.
In the bottom left-hand corner, which is low executive presence and low technical skill, I call this “get to work”. You need one of these skill sets or the other, or you're not going to last in any organization.
The bottom right-hand corner. So this is someone with high technical skills, low executive presence. And so these are people who often get coaching, because they're moving into areas where they need to have the executive presence, but they've been really successful at the company technically.
And the upper right-hand quadrant. I label it “the sky's the limit”. This is someone with a strong executive presence and strong technical skills. So the challenge there is to keep growing and developing, because that is someone who's truly a high-potential, high-performer in an organization.
Welcome to another riveting episode of the upcoach podcast, where we dive into the dynamic world of health and wellness coaching with an extraordinary guest, Justin Roethlingshoefer, gaining insights into the analytical approach that drove him to understand the "why" behind performance. Founder of OWN IT Coaching, a multi seven-figure coaching company, Justin brings a holistic perspective to health and performance, asserting that true performance emerges when physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual health are optimally integrated.
In this episode, Justin takes us on a transformative journey, recounting his early passion for hockey and how it paved the way for his role as a leading figure in health and wellness coaching. From the pivotal moments that shaped his approach to the industry to the incorporation of data-driven strategies, Justin shares the secrets behind his success in retaining high-profile clients, including those from the NHL, NFL, and the entrepreneurial world.
Explore the significance of differentiation in the coaching industry, as Justin shares how being "different" and emphasizing personalization has propelled OWN IT Coaching's rapid growth. Uncover the central role of client retention in their success, boasting an impressive 94% retention rate, and learn how focusing on existing clients has become a cornerstone of their business model.
Breaking the mold: Justin’s discovery of a new path to health and energy
I started to realize, “Man, everything that we've been doing thus far from a physical preparation standpoint has been a broad brushstroke of effect. Everybody is doing the same thing. It's everyone supplementing the same. Everyone's supposed to sleep the same. Everyone's supposed to train the same. Everyone's supposed to recover the same.” And then we wonder why everybody is falling into these norms in terms of the data, why everyone's falling in these norms of sickness rates, norms in terms of injury rates, norms in terms of performance rates. And the outliers are very small.
And it was that moment when I stepped into NHL and really started to create these frameworks and processes that were built off of data and really looking at what does each individual person need. And once we do that, how do we then create this large amount of change. And in 2019-2020, it just hit me square in the face and I was like, “Man, this is not just an athlete problem. This is a human problem. We're striving for something more. We want to have more energy. We want to have more mental clarity. We want to have more focus. We want to be able to extend our life and have longevity.” But yet, we're just doing what everybody else is telling us to do and not understanding this thing that we live in.
The power of being different in health coaching
The first word I’m going to elaborate on is "different". And the reason that I say "different" is because that's been our focus since day one, being different than every other health coaching company out there.
Every other health coaching company is going to talk about nutrition and exercise. Every other health coaching company is going to be the broad brushstroke effect. And when you're different than other people, you stand out. And when you truly take ownership of different, you stand out for the positive way and you don't have to be first.
When you're trailblazing, you have to convince people of what's going on, but once they actually understand what's there and you're different, they're convicted to go with you.
Personalization over scale in building a thriving business
I think we've gotten away from personalization because all we think about is scale, but in actuality, if you build a system that is all about personalization, that's when you can actually scale personalization.
And that's what we've done that's different. And so we've compounded these two things in a very profound way that all of a sudden in two years, we're touching worth of 50, 000 people. And so when you come back to the question, “Okay, what is the one thing that you're doing that's allowed this?”
And it comes from the mindset that your best client is the one that you already have. And you will never, you won't see marketing from us. We don't put ads out, and whether this is to our fault or not, we just, we don't market that way. Why? It's all grown through retention.
The importance of navigating an adaptive closed loop system
A big part of what we do during the whole process is we educate. That's the number one thing that we say we are as we educate people on how to stay healthy. Like, I want to win at business, I want to win in these areas, but you don't win in your health. The goal is to stay healthy. And the thing about this closed loop or this closed system is it's ever-evolving, it's ever-adapting, it's ever-changing to the different seasons, to the different stressors that are going on.
And so we're constantly educating them on this, which is why we always retest every three months or every six months. And so the fact that we're always retesting, the fact that we're always reformulating supplementation, the fact that we're always curating based upon their lifestyle, based upon the changes that are going on in the seasonality, they're like, “Man, I know too much about my body now not to be proactive in this and because I want to continue to stay in this.” So education has been a massive part of what we do in again being different.
Listen in as we discuss the art of coaching with Michael Hyatt, who shares his belief that coaching is the single biggest point of leverage in business. Michael is the Founder and Chairman of Full Focus. He has scaled multiple companies over the years, including a $250M publishing company with 700+ employees and his own goal-achievement company. Under his leadership, Full Focus has been featured in the Inc. 5000 list of the fastest-growing companies in America and Inc.’s Best Work Places list. He is also the author of several New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and USA Today bestselling books, including Your Best Year Ever, Free to Focus, Win at Work and Succeed at Life, and Mind Your Mindset. He has been married for over 45 years to his wife Gail, has five daughters, and ten grandchildren.
In this episode, Michael talks about the importance of customization in coaching and shares how asking the right question at the right time can completely shift the client's perspective and lead to significant results. A powerful example of this is his own experience with an executive coach, who asked him a critical question that forever changed his approach to leadership. Michael also touches on the power of the right question and shares a key question he asks his clients.
In the second part of our chat, Michael discusses how to build listening skills and shares his thoughts on using both indirect and direct coaching methods. He emphasizes the importance of lending perspective to clients to encourage them to take on their problems and make them more solvable. He also provides an example of how 'chunking' a problem can reduce its drama and make it more manageable. Michael shares his approach to challenging his clients and reveals that he views his clients as big and strong, not small and fragile, and believes that it's his role to stand for their greatness. Tune in to hear more of Michael's insights and get a bonus tip on the power of asking the right questions.
*The upcoach podcast is produced by Ventures FM.*
Episode Quotes:Coaching is the single biggest point of leverage in his business
Well, I've been a consumer of coaching for about 20 years, and I've never not had a coach during that time. I feel like coaching has been the single biggest point of leverage in my business, and the way I look at it, if you want to go further faster, get a coach because the slow, dumb way is to figure it all out yourself. I love having somebody that's there as an advocate for me. I couldn't get that from my board when I was back in a corporate responsibility. You can't get it even from your friends or your colleagues, but a coach that knows you that intimately and is acquainted with your business, I think, is a game changer.
Why you can’t get coaching from YouTube videos
It's got to be customized. You know, every client's situation is unique, and I think the right word at the right time, the right question at the right time, can make a huge difference, can shift everything for that person, and it certainly has for me.
The thing that's made a big impact on the results of his clients
I really believe that thinking is where it starts. Thinking leads to the actions you take. The actions you take deliver the results. And if you want to change the results, you've got to swim upstream to get to the thinking. But how do you get access to the thinking? I'm not a mind reader. Well, I realized that language is the key. The words people use reveal their thinking, and sometimes, just a subtle shift in the language can change everything for the client.
On clarifying problems before offering solutions
I want to make sure I understand the problem, and I'm not trying to fix the wrong problem. I think it's important for people to be heard. And a lot of times, once people can externalize it, they see the problem with it as soon as they get it out. It's just when it's this ambiguous mess in their head that it feels unsolvable. But once they get it out, they often come to their own solutions.
Sometimes, you just have to listen and hear it out and make sure that you're not jumping to a conclusion that's not warranted. As a coach, I've really had to develop my listening skills. And that doesn't mean that I sometimes believe in directive coaching. I don't like the model where it's all indirect. So, that's definitely a tool in the toolbox, but I think once you get it, I think that's the point where you can just apply the right tool in the right situation and make a difference. And sometimes you have to speak into that, but you've got to solve the right problem.
Ever wondered what distinguishes a great coach from the rest? Prepare to unlock the secrets behind extraordinary coaching as we sit down with the dynamic co-founders of the 100 Coaches Agency, Jacquelyn Lane and Scott Osman. This enlightening conversation promises to reveal the nuanced qualities that distinguish good coaches from outstanding ones. Jacquelyn and Scott, who've journeyed far and wide in the coaching world, divulge the distinctive attributes they've noted in truly impactful coaches, including their dedication to embody their teachings, their deep commitment to listening, and their relentless pursuit of holding their clients accountable for their goals.
But wait, it's not just about being a great coach; it's also about being a great coachee! In this fascinating discussion, Jacquelyn and Scott explore the importance of coachability for a successful coaching engagement. They share their unique Openness Framework to help leaders become better coachees. They further stress the need to be open to changes, embrace feedback, take action, and be held accountable, both as a coach and a coachee. If you're already in the coaching space or considering a venture into it, this is a must-listen episode packed with priceless insights.
*The upcoach podcast is produced by Ventures FM.*
Qualities of a great coach
Jacquelyn: I think for me there's one quality that separates good coaches from great coaches, and I think it's that good coaches know how to talk the talk, but a great coach knows how to walk the walk. You know they really live what they talk about, and that makes an enormous difference. There's someone who walks beside someone and can listen for a long time and ask great questions. I think some of the most powerful coaching I've observed is when something just gets unlocked in someone. They have a flash of insight. Or this moment where their life is really never quite the same, and that's a powerful thing. Or someone who just calls out the best in someone, someone who can hold them accountable to reaching those goals.
Scott: Number one, they're able to develop a deep and trusted connection with the person they're working with. So there's complete openness and transparency and trust. And again, at the level that many of our coaches are operating in, that's a very rare thing. You know, one of the things common among all top leaders is they don't really have anybody that they can talk to in a trusted way, because everybody needs or wants something from them. So that ability to be that very close, trusted relationship is key. And then knowing what to do with that relationship, both in terms of, on the one hand, being respectful and, on the other hand, sometimes I would call it abrasively blunt, right, and tell them unabashedly what they need to hear.
Coaches should not be afraid to be fired
Scott: One of the things that my heart really goes out to with coaches is you have to be not just willing but embracing of being fired, which is a little counterintuitive for people. So if you're afraid of being fired as a coach, then you're not going to say the things that might get you fired, which are probably some of the things that the person you're coaching really needs to hear. You just have to accept the fact that you're going to say some hard things that people really don't like. That may be the end, but that's part of the price of coaching. That's a great tone-setter, it’s what that is.
On becoming coachable
Jacquelyn: We've had the great pleasure of doing this now for several years. We've witnessed over 300 executives and engagements and at that point now just started to aggregate what makes certain engagements successful versus others, and there's really one characteristic that has consistently risen to the top, and that's what we call coachability, which is dependent not on the quality of the coach, but rather on the quality and coachability of the leader.
I mean, that is one of the core insights we had too, and this goes back to what I just said earlier about the great coaches walk the walk. Great coaches are also coachable people. They know what it means to receive coaching and, oftentimes, a great coaching relationship. A great coach is soliciting feedback from their client all the time. “Was this what you needed? Did you get something insightful out of this? How close were you to firing me today?” It's all about continuing to exchange that feedback so that we can continue to grow and become better.
We can certainly talk about mindsets and qualities of people who are very coachable. But I think I’d first like to mention what we call our openness framework. And our openness framework is this idea that if you are open to making a change, if you are open to receiving feedback, you're open to taking action and open to being held accountable. That makes you coachable, and, of course, part of the reason we use the word, “becoming,” is because you never just arrive, you never are coachable. You are constantly becoming more and more coachable. And you are becoming more and more open all the time to those ideas. But just, you know, if you can crack the door open a little bit, let that light shine through, and take that first step, then the coaching process will carry you, you'll start to build some momentum, turn that flywheel. And I think people really start to see radical results from coaching.
Prepare yourself for a deep-dive into the world of executive coaching with Nihar Chhaya, the founder of partnerexec.com. Nihar is an executive coach to CEOs and senior leaders at global companies, including American Airlines, Coca-Cola, DraftKings, Lockheed Martin and others. He holds the Master Certified Coach (MCC) credential from the International Coach Federation and is a regular contributor on leadership to Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and Forbes.
This episode illuminates Nihar’s fascinating journey, from feeling adrift in his own career to establishing his own business, guiding and advising top-tier CEOs, leaders, and other executives. He candidly shares his initial struggles with workplace politics and how this ultimately steered him towards the intriguing world of conversations and interpersonal dynamics at play. He emphasizes the crucial role of self-evaluation and risk-taking, pushing through discomfort to seize opportunities, and how these principles have cemented his success.
As we step further into the conversation, Nihar imparts his unique coaching and consulting approach for thriving in the business arena. He unfolds the importance of questioning and the art of aligning clients mentally, emotionally, and physically to spur remarkable results. Building a reputable presence and maintaining mental engagement during conversations are key tenets of his coaching philosophy. Nihar also shares some priceless insights on maneuvering through uncertainties and carving out your own path in the coaching realm. Don't miss the chance to glean from these pearls of wisdom. Join us for this enlightening chat with Nihar Chhaya.
*The upcoach podcast is produced by Ventures FM.*
Episode Quotes:How Nihar got into the coaching world
I actually landed in this world largely because I was confused a little bit about my own leadership journey. So, I had went to college and graduate school in the nineties and took on a typical financial analyst jobs and strategic consulting and things like that. And then I went to Wharton for business school, and most of my classmates at that point were going to invest in banking or private equity or McKinsey, those kinds of companies. I really was interested in them, but I also felt it wasn't really speaking to what my strengths were and what my real passions were, which was around just learning more about people. And so, while I had the business acumen, one thing that always stuck with me was I wonder how this affects people who are working in companies. And so, I found myself almost following the herd into some of these bigger jobs. And then I found that I was struggling to understand politics at work, moving up the corporate ladder, if you will. So, I hired a coach.
Nihar’s one thing that get clients’ results
I think really what it comes down to is stepping out of my own comfort zone in the service of the client. Over the many years of learning to be a coach, I found, on one hand, you can get very comfortable thinking that you're the consultant in the room. You're the one that has to have all the answers. And I found that as I do work with senior executives at these bigger companies, a lot of these business leaders don't really know what they don't know. They focus on the logical aspects of business. So, it's very easy for coaching conversations to, kind of, stay in the realm of, okay, here's what you need to do to increase revenue. Here's what you need to do to decrease costs, et cetera. And while you can stay in that area, I found that I wasn't really serving the client in terms of transformative insight building. I had to evaluate myself what am I doing here in terms of really moving the needle for them? And so, even moving from questions, like, what do you want to do in the next quarter, to who do you need to be able to achieve those things? How do you need to show up? They're basic coaching questions, but a lot of times, I found myself unwilling to go there with certain leaders where I felt as if they might think it's too fluffy or they might think it's too soft. The big idea for me was really about saying to myself that if I expect my client to really step out of their comfort zone, I can also be willing to do that as well. And that creates more intimacy and trust for us as well.
Difference between selling coaching and doing actual coaching
A lot of times there's a dichotomy between selling your coaching and actually doing the coaching, the delivering. As I mentioned, sometimes, my clients don't really know what coaching involves. And so, if you just jump right into it and start having these, kind of, inquisitive conversations, they're not really there. On the other hand, if you actually just talk about coaching as if, Hey, you can get all these kinds of benefits and you'll get promoted by next year and this and that, that's not really also anything different than the typical kind of marketing jargon out there.
So, I always find going back to the big idea for me, I have to be constantly on. I don't have to be talking a lot, I don't have to be the one dominating, but I have to be mentally on. I can't be passive in my own kind of complacency as a coach because what I find is that when I actually say to myself, you need to step in a little bit here, then it changes the dynamic a lot with people. And I found that, in moments, it can be easy to say, maybe I just want him to go down that road 'cause it's going to be a little bit awkward. But when I do, it generally pays off for both of us.
Knowing how you can be an effective coach
I think it's so important to be able to know what you can't do or what you're not going to be as effective doing. I've learned that as well. I realized, for instance, that I am probably better coaching people who are at the VP and up level just because I have more experience in that. And also I just find the problems that they're dealing with are things that I have a little bit more, maybe wisdom based on my work. But there's a lot of work that's out there with the early career folks, individual contributors, and first-time managers. And there's so many great coaches that do that work. So, what I also recognized was, okay, this is where I can actually help — tie align you up with better coaches that can do it. But it does take that wisdom to be, or at least that discipline, to be able to sit back and say, this is my lane, and I'm going to stay in that lane to be effective.
Show Links:Lights, camera, action! This episode welcomes Liz Brunner, an award-winning news anchor turned successful business owner. A classically trained singer and former high school teacher, Liz takes us on a fascinating journey that showcases a unique perspective on storytelling. Learn how she uses her voice to help leaders, executives, entrepreneurs, and creators communicate more effectively.
Liz generously shares her 4 C's framework for creating powerful presentations: Confidence, Content, Clarity, and Conversation. This is the secret sauce of the Brunner Method, a unique approach that empowers clients to understand and relay their content in a way that resonates with audiences. Discover how Liz's experiences, the challenges she faced while growing her business, and the highs and lows of her entrepreneurial journey contribute to her successful career as a coach.
But this isn't just a conversation about communication - it's a symphony of experiences and insights. Inspired by her musical background, Liz shares the benefits of practicing speeches backwards. Yes, backwards! Starting with the end in mind can capture your audience right away and improve content, clarity, and energy. Hear her recount her time as a news anchor using conversational storytelling to connect with her audience. Liz’s narrative underscores the significance of balancing professionalism with a relatable persona. Join us for entertaining and enriching insights into the world of effective communication.
*The upcoach podcast is produced by Ventures FM.*
Transitioning from teaching to anchoring to coaching
When the television industry was changing, I felt like there was something more that I could do, and I wanted truly to take what I feel had been the gifts that I've been blessed with, the skills and the expertise that I've honed over this crazy career that I've had, and be able to bring it and share it with other people.
So, in many respects, I started out as a teacher, and now I'm a teacher and a coach once again. And the theme, if you will, and people say, how did you go from that to this? It's all storytelling, and it's all using your voice. When I was singing, I was singing stories and teaching students how to sing stories. In my television career, I was sharing other people's stories, giving them a platform. As a coach, I'm helping my clients use their voice and learn how to tell their stories. And now, as a keynote speaker and an author, I'm sharing my story.
On launching her coaching business
I made the decision that day, and I left and launched six weeks later, and I never looked back. And so, to be able to share the expertise that I have and the coaching and the teaching, I love it. It's all storytelling, and using your voice and being able to help people feel good about that really means a lot to me. And I've kind of developed a couple of things. Well, I call it Liz's 4 C's. Number one, you have to have confidence. Number two, you have to know your content. Number three, you have to have clarity of your content. And number four, you have to deliver it in a conversational way. And so, being able to help people do that…. I see the progress in my clients often before they do, but when they see it, it is the best feeling in the world.
On starting your content at the end
When I'm working with clients on how to put their content together, and again, any content to me is storytelling, and it has an open, it has a middle, and it has a close, and a lot of people think that they need to start at the beginning. I always say start at the end. What do you want the fourth quarter to look like? What do you want the end game to look like? What is the goal of the remarks that you're sharing? Why should people even listen to you? What's in it for them? And when you figure that out to me, then you can begin to figure out how you want to begin.
Meet our esteemed guest, Dr. Gena Cox, an organizational psychologist and an executive coach who believes in a human-centered approach to coaching. Her perspective, enriched by her travels, emphasizes the significance of understanding every individual's point of view. She asserts that leaders who travel often develop a broad-minded approach, becoming more aware, inclusive, and adaptable.
In this revealing conversation, Dr. Cox provides insights into the nuances of executive coaching, drawing a distinction from coaching middle managers. She dwells on the importance of intuition in coaching, indicating how it aids in comprehending clients' needs. The conversation illuminates how change operates on different planes and how the client's sense of being acknowledged and valued determines the effectiveness of the coaching. For those intrigued by leadership, inclusion, and coaching intricacies, this episode is a treasure trove of insights worth exploring.
*The upcoach podcast is produced by Ventures FM.*
On how to be an effective leader
You can't consider yourself to be an effective leader if you only understand the needs and expectations of a fraction of your workforce. An inclusive leader is one who understands 100% of that workforce and is then able to make decisions that support 100% of that workforce.
Who are the most effective leaders
I grew up on a Caribbean island called Barbados, and one of the things that I realized on the island is that you were interacting with people from all over the world just because those people were on your island, and you sort of looked outward. And then, as I got older and as I traveled, I started to notice that people who traveled were apparently just more curious, more flexible in their approach to a variety of things. And so, I guess we could say that, if that is true, that observation, it probably also is true with regard to leadership because the leaders that I think are the most effective, especially on this inclusion slice of leadership, are the ones that are able to realize that they have a perspective, that everybody's perspective is sort of defined by their own experiences, and to be effective as a leader, you've got to understand a wide range of perspectives and then get comfortable with them.
The one thing that's made an outsized impact on her ability to help clients
I'm gonna call it just-in-time results-focused coaching. And the reason I labeled it that way just for this conversation is because I figured the possibility that there might be people listening to this conversation who have heard this idea about results-focused coaching. Meaning you go into coaching with the perspective that you want to make sure that your clients are able to accomplish whatever it is that they desire. That's why they're doing coaching, it has to be worthwhile and useful. Well, that's great. What I've learned to add to that over the years is that I really focus and spend more of my time thinking about what is going on with my clients. What is it that they need in the moment?
And so, while it's fine to talk about results and to have a big idea or a big goal that you're working towards, it's really important for me to think very clearly about the industry that my client is in, to stay up to date with what's happening, news that may influence or impact the decisions that they have to make. Because when a client is with me, I want to sort of have a sense of what's going on with them right now. That's the true value of coaching.
Typical leadership coaching VS executive coaching
I think one of the distinguishing characteristics of working with executives is that, first of all, things are moving really fast. You have to be ready, to be in the moment and go to flow because the thing that they might want to talk about today might be the thing that was furthest from your mind. So, there's just that part of it that you've got to be extremely flexible and nimble and able to sort of go with that. The other thing, though, is that you sort of get to the point in the relationship where you know that they're finally able to tell you what's really on their minds. It's a process in that sense. There's no shorthand that you can take to that. It's one of the challenges that I had when I would work with large companies that would want to say what their coaching process was. Sometimes, they would say this is our process; this is how we want to do things, and that does not really work with regard to the kind of coaching that we're talking about, and that's, I think, a big distinguisher between typical leadership coaching and executive coaching. You've got to have all that space for the client to be able to sort of flex and move and change. And one of the things you can do is kind of help them stay on the right map, stay on the path that they said they want to be on, but also make it possible and easy for them to deviate from that whenever they need to do it.
The podcast currently has 23 episodes available.