The Verse Chorus

In this episode, Jason continues his interview with Jason Goolesby. They discuss what inspires them as songwriters, the blessings and the curses and how they define success.

Where you can find Jason Goolesby:

Instagram: @jasongoolesby

Facebook: Jason Goolesby

and at  Nashville’s only BBQ songwriter round 🔥 🐷 🎼

In this episode, Jason interviews Jason Goolesby. They discuss what inspires them as songwriters, the blessings and the curses and how they define success.

Where you can find Jason Goolesby:

Instagram: @jasongoolesby

Facebook: Jason Goolesby

and at  Nashville’s only BBQ songwriter round 🔥 🐷 🎼smokinontherow.com

The Verse Chorus Podcast-Episode 12 Mental Health & Truth in Songwriting

Welcome to The Verse Chorus Podcast. Thank you for your support and for coming back to listen. We hope you enjoy this episode.

-with guest Amy Corey

I remember when I was in college, back when they had music and bookstores together at one location. I would go to Borders and buy myself a quadruple expresso and listen to records at the listening stations. I would listen to something that inspired me and that, along with my excessive caffeine, would inspire me to write my own music. Listening to music and feeling good helped me write. There are other times though, when the inspiration to write comes from a place of sorrow or sadness, and that’s what I wanted to talk about today.

How Feelings and Emotions Can Inspire Great Songs

Our guest Amy Corey is someone who I thought of specifically for this episode. We met at Douglas Corner Cafe in Nashville and had some good soulful talks. Amy has had an amazingly unique journey. She was born in Vietnam with the birth name Dang Thi Minh Hanh, which means “bright and “of good morale”, which is the embodiment of who Amy is as a person. She is an advocate for mental health awareness and really embraces the struggles that we go through when we’re looking for something positive. 

When Amy was young, she would write her music from a brutally honest place. It was like her diary, expressing both the good and bad of what was going on and how she was coping.  She would write a lot of poetry as well, which became lyrical, and she was able to apply that to her music. For Amy, the songs she writes are about telling a story. Being honest about your story is important because there is always someone who needs to hear it. But at the end of the day, the music you write is for your healing.

Writing music and poetry has always been a healing process for Amy but doing it as a career has been really amazing for her. She has developed as an artist over time and gives herself freedom to fully express her emotions. She knows she’s not the only person experiencing the struggles she does. She wants you to listen to her songs and feel seen and understood, which is the point of her music. 

The Covid-19 Pandemic and Mental Health Struggles

During the Covid-19 pandemic of the last year, Amy traveled quite a bit, both domestically and internationally, and noticed that everyone was experiencing the same hardships and stress in regard to the Corona virus and the isolating effects of it. She herself is in her 8th year of recovering from mental health struggles and recognized quickly what others were going through because she was feeling the effects of it too. She noticed that everyone was having the same experience, but it affected each of them differently. This was hard for Amy to see but it really inspired her to speak more on mental health.

In late 2019 Amy returned to Viet Nam for the first time since she was adopted as a small child. This was a very personal but amazing time for her. She was able to meet local artists, be on the radio, and took on an ambassador role with HCMC Peace and Development Association. Amy is very proud of her Vietnamese roots and considers it to be the source of her strength, power, and resilience (she is also proud to be one of the very few Vietnamese country artists in Nashville.) When Amy writes a song, it has to be genuine and specifically Amy, and being Vietnamese is part of who she is. but she also can write a song that others can relate to. In everything that Amy does, whether it be through her music, her speaking on mental health, or her work as an ambassador, it is to connect with others through empathy, and showing that she understands. 

“You are not your mental health trauma.”

As an artist, Amy is known to her fans for being raw and authentic when it comes to her mental health and how she expresses herself through her music. She is not afraid to be herself and show you her scars. Scars are here to show you that you may have lost the battle, but you have won the war. Over the years, there have been some opportunities in music that Amy missed out on due to her honesty around mental health. But then, that honesty got her some other opportunities that were good too. Regardless, Amy will always stay true and authentic because this is how she finds fulfillment, through helping others. Nothing makes Amy happier than when someone lets her know how her story helped them, which happens quite a bit.

Discovering her passion and finding success

Right now, Amy isn’t as focused on music as she has been in the past. She is working more on her entrepreneurship and public speaking on mental health. When she first moved to Nashville at age 18, it was to become a singer and songwriter. Over time though, she began to feel confined to keeping her thoughts and feelings within the limits of a 3-minute song. She took a year to study the field of mental health and public speaking, which shifted into her current work and other kinds of writing. She was able to plant seeds in all areas of the entertainment industry using her passion for mental health awareness. This may not be what she originally set out to do but she’s been successful because of the foundation she built with music. 

How Amy copes with performance anxiety

Over the course of Amy’s entire career, she has put pressure on herself to be a good performer and not let others down. She wants to be seen as a strong ambassador, sincere musician, and good speaker, but she also wants you to see her for who she truly is. It’s not a bad thing to be a different person on and off the stage-it’s just who you are. Don’t worry that you will mess up the good that you have created for someone else through their experience with you. Music can be both positive and negative for you and the listener, and that’s okay.

Thank you to Amy for being on the show today, speaking about your journey as a musician, struggles with mental health, and how you are now changing lives through your important work. To our listeners, please remember to rate, subscribe, and share our podcast with your friends!

Connect with Amy

-on her website

-on Instagram

-on Facebook

-on Twitter

Links and Resources

-HCMC Peace and Development website

-Holt International Adoption Agency website

Support The Verse Chorus Podcast

Visit us on our website and follow us on Facebook!

Jason kicks off the second season of The Verse Chorus with Songwriter/Author Mason Douglas.

S1 Ep 11: The Entrepreneurial Songwriter

Welcome to The Verse Chorus Podcast. Thank you for your support and for coming back to listen. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Songwriting needs to come from a place of passion, being genuine. For some, a goal with songwriting is to make money; but for some of you, it may not be. Finding the balance between your songwriting and your objectives is essential. You can have a day job or other ways to have an income. Often referred to as "stringing pennies together." 

Quarantine and Covid having people work from home have opened up an entrepreneurial mindset. Songwriters realize that there are other ways we can make money while we are writing songs. In this episode, this is one of the things we will dive into with my guest today, Mason Douglas. An independent, full-time songwriter who is a top 40 songwriter who co-wrote American beauty for the loss trailers. He's the author of an Amazon bestseller; Now You Know Nashville and Secret Nashville. 

Mason is often asked how does someone makes it as a musician full time. The message that he gives people is that being a full-time musician can be done. There's no reason that someone can't do this, but you have to be focused and open to crazy gigs.  

"And let's say, hypothetically, we're making $50,000 and doing those 50 weeks, that's a thousand dollars a week essentially. Instead, songwriting is a thousand ways to make 50 bucks."

This is the type of mentality that you need to have when you come to Nashville. Once you realize this, Mason says it's freeing. The vast majority of songwriters are trying to find a gig here, a job there, maybe do vocals for someone, or write a song for a special occasion. There are a plethora of ways that a songwriter can make money. But, Mason says one of the things that he wants anyone wanting to come to Nashville and take a plunge is that you're not going to go there for a career. 

Use your talents - are you a great guitar player who can get involved in sessions, play guitar with your buddies, and become a utility player. Or go out and sing vocals for people, get involved with co-writers, and cut your friend a rate. It gets you involved with the people who are producing and engineering the vocal session. They hear you, they like you, and they can potentially give you a call in the future. They will eventually call, and then the offer for more vocals will come in; then, your singing demo songs for folks. You might play smaller gigs at bars, grills, and wineries. 

One side gig that is frequently overlooked is voiceovers. Mason says he knows people making six figures alone doing just voiceovers. These can range from reading books on tape and recording answering service messages or phone directory navigation. If you have a specialty or something that you want to give to the world, you can show your expertise. You can host a podcast, be an influencer on Instagram, write books, or be an actor. These are all creative ways to use what you are already doing. Go get out in the world and see how the industry works. Get behind the curtain and see how engineering production, vocals, guitar, and even voiceovers work. 

There's joy in the side gigs, especially when it's a labor of love. 

In this industry of being a musician or songwriter, the top 1% make the six or seven figures. That's why it's crucial to be passion-driven and not be blinded or tempted by what's not there. It's a lot like the quote from Willie Nelson, he did it for love, but he was not above the money. 

How does Mason deal with rejection, and how does he deal with telling people things they didn't want to hear 

Having thick skin and the more you do it, the more you get used to it. The first steps are the hardest and putting your stuff out there, but you're going to be afraid regardless. When you do get those victories, be sure to love them, embrace them and celebrate them. It's always good to remember that it's not personal - this is the music business. If you submit something and don't like it, it just means that your work doesn't fit their project in this instance. Never burn a bridge, never get mad and never yell at them or email them angrily. Giving criticism has gotten easier just because Mason has been doing this for so long. There are buzzwords to smooth out a particular complaint. 

He was part of an acoustic duo in Tucson and then moved to Nashville. He and his buddy co-wrote, and that was his first experience with co-writing. Mason remembers looking at Brooks and Dunn albums and Garth Brooks and seeing that multiple people collaborated and wrote them. 

Mason says that it's, of course, nerve-wracking, but that's when he would contact the other person and invite them to grab a drink and get to know each other. That way, when you jump into a room to co-write, it's a little more comfortable. Co-writing is just a skill that you have to get used to and see every experience. 

It should happen with every song. Mason says that you want different angles and different opinions to have discussions about it. If you're going to stop and say you don't like something, it's best to have options. Please don't say you don't like something and then do not have an option for replacing it. If you're writing with an artist, go with what they're going to be putting out because it'll be their stamp, but you have to do your job as the more experienced person in the room. 

Thank you to Mason for being on the show today, speaking about being the entrepreneurial songwriter. To our listeners, please remember to rate, subscribe, and share our podcast with your friends!

Connect with Mason

Email

Facebook

Instagram

Now You Know Nashville 

Secret Nashville

Links and Resources

Song Dive 

In this episode, Jason goes solo and discusses being perfectly imperfect.

In this episode, Jason goes solo and discusses releasing the ego.

Welcome to The Verse Chorus Podcast. Thank you for your support and for coming back to listen. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Building Relationships in the Music Business - with guest Leah Hudson

Songwriting is a big project in our life that is meaningful. Sometimes we have to not only do the heavy lifting by ourselves but also know when we need advice, information and seek help from others. That's not a weakness. It just makes us stronger. Today’s special guest is Leah Hudson from Nashville Songwriters Association International, who's given me some great advice.

Leah's background

Leah was originally from Alabama, but she's now in Nashville. She always had a profound interest in studying human behaviors,not in a psychological way but the cultural aspects of why people do the things that they do. And from a young age, she was fascinated by Native American culture. By the time she got to college and found out about cultural anthropology, she decided to study that major.

Leah Hudson's journey to music

At Troy University, she had an incredible couple of independent study courses with an amazing professor, Dr. Geneve Brooks, who led her to be involved with the blues community. She was introduced to some great local musicians and then got interested in protest music, like the history of American protest music. At that time, she finally found her strength through that new journey,that she could bring to music an organized mindset.

Leah Hudson's first lesson in the journey

In the beginning, she needed a little something to lean on, whether it's resources or connecting with co-writers. She got the incredible opportunity to do that every day. That's how she ended up figuring out some profound questions to coach newbies that follow the path of songwriting. One of the questions is "Who were your musical influences?" and that helps her get a good starting point of how she can help her students.

From her point of view, every songwriter must spend a good deal of time researching something like who's current, who made this songwriting thing and a possible career path to see the landscape of the songwriting journey.

The growth of a songwriter depends a lot on what he or she put into it, and not just into their membership but their songwriting, hobby and career. 

Especially, Leah puts two important things together that lead to growth are a great co-writer and a great songwriting community. You can find a group of people to go through within the journey.

Jason also stated that it is a sort of balance of confidence in humility and being comfortable with being imperfect. This perspective support you to build healthy relationships in the music business. As a result, you can gain from the wisdom of others, which has been good.

When anthropology and music fit together

There is a universal idea of how everything fits together including writing a song. The journey of Leah is the embodiment of what she has experienced from her original study of cultural anthropology and in life. That's the reason why she gravitated towards music in general. She shares that the best part of her job is just hearing great songs.

Dealing with criticism

When being asked about the worst thing that happened to her job, Leah genuinely said that she used to have some people bluntly told her that they were disappointed after they met her. But from her experience, you have to be open to that criticism. Although it can be hard the first time, it's a little less hard the second time and if you're willing to let yourself go through that you can get better.

Good relationships take time 

Real trust between people always takes time to be established. Some of the questions that we need to consider first are "How do I meet co-writers? Why should I co-write? How to find those co-writers and What to do when you find them?"

So you have no reason not to get plugged into a community that's local to you. And that can help you find those opportunities and little wins.

But it's also good to take time to ease into that. Tom Douglas does talk about the importance of writing on your own. According to Jason, there are different ways of thinking about using chords or the meter, the lyrics due to co-writing. So you can do it on your own. But some experiences can only be learned from co-writing. That's a big thing.

Leah's last advice for you - a songwriter

Not letting things discourage you, not letting comparison getting in your way. That's why NSAI exists to help you bridge the gap between you and your current writing. Finding a circle and meeting incredible people to help raise you and support you are just priceless. So, let's make friends, just be true and be genuine.

Leah also shared one of her hobbies is that listening to parenting podcasts. She said the podcasters on those shows are not parenting experts. They're just parents. The same for you as a songwriter. You don't need a degree, a book on songwriter education, or have a Grammy to be able to talk about the experience of it. So even if only five people hear your songs, it's worth it. And it's fun.

“It's thinking about just taking joy from the creation, and not worrying too much about how it's gonna look in the end.”

Thank you to Leah for being on the show today, speaking about her experience and the right mindset of a songwriter. To our listeners, please remember to rate, subscribe, and share our podcast with your friends!

Connect with David

-on his website

-on Instagram

-on Twitter

-on YouTube

Support The Verse Chorus Podcast

Visit us on our website and follow us on Facebook!

The Verse Chorus Podcast-Episode 7

Welcome to The Verse Chorus Podcast. Thank you for your support and for coming back to listen. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Using Comedy in Songwriting-with guest Steve Goodie

The most important thing about writing a song is connecting to people in a meaningful, positive way. As a songwriter, you have many tools in your toolbox and one of those tools is using humor. This episode features my conversation with songwriter and comedian Steve Goodie as he discusses using comedy in songwriting, different approaches he takes with his writing process, and the discernment needed when using life's little events to inspire your comedy bits or song lyrics.

Using humor in the songwriting process

When Steve sits down to write a song, he writes from the point of view of being funny, which is always his goal. He also has an idea in mind of what he wants to write about. He has found that when he’s writing a song that is not funny, it’s usually not his best work. When it comes to any song Steve writes, funny or not, the initial idea must be strong and resonate on a personal level with him. 

Steve also typically writes on his own, with occasional outside help, but there are times when he will get together with a friend and “speed write” or see how many songs they can write in just a couple of hours. One of Steve’s favorite songs to come out of a speed writing session is a kid’s song called “The Hotdog Song”, which he still performs. Steve has found that there are small, insignificant things you can write about, which resonate so strongly with people that they become significant. 

“If you are a songwriter, write about something that is significant to you. It may not be significant to others, but since it is to you, that’s all that matters.”

When it comes to the topic of a song, Steve writes about things he finds either funny or frustrating (even though others may not agree) because it’s important for him to express it. Sometimes these songs are like holding up a mirror, showing others how silly or nonsensical something is (such as how “The Hotdog Song” is about the ingredients in a hotdog yet we still eat them) and people can laugh at themselves. There are times when Steve will write about more serious topics, such as politics, and although he’s aware not everyone will agree with him, he still needs to get his song out and express his opinion. And sometimes even if people disagree with Steve, they will still find the song funny.

How Steve performs his songs

When Steve performs, he will sometimes include video if he feels the song requires a visual aide, like with his song “Words That Sound Dirty but They Ain’t”. Because this song cannot be played on a guitar and the words go by so fast, he uses video with subtitles, images, and animation. The song is only a minute and a half long but there are enough lyrics for 5 songs, and it took Steve a long time to learn and perform. And there have been many times where he messed it up. 

When it comes to performing a comedy act versus performing a song, Steve has found that when doing comedy, you must have engagement from the audience, or it doesn’t work. But when performing a song, you can sing without needing the audience to engage-they can tune you out. However, if the audience finds your performance to be too distracting (like if they are trying to enjoy dinner at the same time), you can ruin their whole experience. Comedy should really be more respected because it’s one of the few crafts where you are being constantly judged while receiving continuous feedback-it’s very difficult.

How has the Covid-19 pandemic affected Steve?

Steve has been lucky because he’s been able to book a lot of comedy house concerts. He’s also been able to recover a lot of canceled shows because he can perform over Zoom. Although he couldn’t have as many people at the shows or make as much money, he also didn’t have to travel as much as he usually would. No one prefers a Zoom show to a regular show but it’s better than nothing. Being able to perform over Zoom has allowed Steve to save valuable time (no travel, not set-up/tear-down) and get plenty of practice in, which has allowed him to perfect his performance. Generally speaking, Steve has found that Covid has had a positive effect because he’s been able to perform more shows virtually since geography is no longer an issue. 

How Steve got started as a songwriter and comedian 

Around age 10 or 11, Steve became more interested in music, starting with drums, but then moved on to the guitar because he could write songs easier. Around that same time Steve discovered MAD Magazine and saw how they would change the lyrics to popular songs to make them funny. He also memorized the scripts to famous comedy sketches and would perform them with his brother at family gatherings. 

In college, Steve performed at Open Mic nights and became famous among his peers. He would change the lyrics to every possible song to make it funny and then perform it. After leaving college, Steve went to Florida and found a job at a recording studio editing tapes. He was paid minimum wage, but it was enough to make ends meet, and over time he became very valuable to the studio. At night he was given free use of the studio and recorded funny songs. Eventually, he moved to Nashville, got on stage at Zanies Comedy Club where he became a regular, and the rest is history.

Comedians and Depression

For most comedians, there is a negative dark side either in their background or current life, which is made easier by pursuing the life of a professional comedian-and this could hold true for any artist. People who have a need to express and be accepted by the public for something they created, and then be paid for it, can be difficult. Being on the road as a comedian is also hard but the performance time on stage makes it all worth it, even though it’s not nearly enough time. The performance stops so suddenly and then you have to wait days or weeks to do it again. The more successful a comedian is, the harder it gets. You are in strange city’s, staying in lonely hotels, just waiting to perform. Drug use is not uncommon and has affected well-known comedians such as Greg Giraldo and Mitch Hedberg. If you are a balanced enough person to handle the lifestyle, you probably won’t be a comedian. 

Thank you to Steve for being on the show today, speaking about comedy in songwriting and your background as a comedian. To our listeners, please remember to rate, subscribe, and share our podcast with your friends!

Connect with Steve

-on his website

-on Instagram

-on Facebook

-on YouTube

-by email

Links and Resources

-MAD Magazine

-Zainies Nashville Comedy Club

Support The Verse Chorus Podcast

Visit us on our website and follow us on Facebook!

In this episode, Jason interviews Tressie Seegers MA, LPC, Singer/Songwriter.

Tressie's website

Twitter: @_tressie_

The Austin Harmony Project

Welcome to The Verse Chorus Podcast. Thank you for your support and for coming back to listen. We hope you enjoy this episode.

The Business Side of the Music Business-with guest Bart Herbison

In this podcast, we have mostly talked about the craft of music and songwriting, but in this episode, we’re talking about the financial and business aspects of the songwriting industry. Our special guest, Bart Herbison is the President of the Nashville Songwriters Association International. He has had an integral role in the way that songwriters are able to make money.

Bart’s Tips for Professional Songwriters

Although not impossible, it’s tough for someone to make a living as a songwriter and it always has been, especially now during this digital age. There are a thousand good writers for every available spot. Bart’s number one recommendation for a songwriter is to do your homework. If your goal is to move to Nashville, instead of simply moving right away, “date” Nashville for a while. Get to know the business, network with others in the industry, and know what you’re getting in to. 

“Be smart in the way that you are guided towards your goals as a songwriter.”

Bart’s second recommendation for songwriters is that once you move to Nashville, get your life positioned correctly. Have a place to live and a plan for financial stability while you are pursing your goals. Don’t move to the city with nowhere to live and no way to pay your bills. This will kill your career. Even though you have a dream, the rest of your life (and the people in it) are important too. Bart finds that the folks who take time to plan their life out and have a strategy in place, tend to be more successful in the long run.

Types of Professional Songwriters

• The songwriter who’s not the artist-these writers write songs for artists to record, and their whole financial livelihood is dependent upon this. Bart says that this category of writers has been hit the hardest in the digital era.
• The artist songwriter-these writers have a lot more opportunities to make income because they can perform their own songs, do product endorsements, etc. If these writers get a record deal, they (along with the record company) can decide what singles will go on the album.
• Songwriters who write for other things (film, TV, corporate, stage, etc)-these writers aren’t financially dependent upon an artist using their song because they write for other consumers. 

Bart’s Work with Helping Songwriters be Financially Successful

There are two different kinds of royalties for song writers-sales royalties and performance royalties. Both royalties historically, did not allow for songwriters to make much money at all. Back when artists used to sell a million albums, the songwriter would make their share of the profit and it could be up to $30,000. Even a Top 30 single could pay them significant money. These days, if you write a song and it’s used as an album cut, you’re not going to make much money. However, a Top 10 single or a radio single will produce some income.

 Bart and his team at the NSAI have worked hard to change old laws and rules (dating back as far as the 1900’s) which have hindered songwriters’ success. Because of the work the NSAI has done, in future rate proceedings, songwriters will be paid way more than what the market would approximate. 

Songwriters, due to some national labor relations rulings, cannot unionize. It would be difficult for them to unionize anyway because it would be hard to set a prevailing wage for everyone. However, the NSAI has worked with Congress to change how songwriters’ wages are set and they’ve had a lot of success with that recently. When the Music Modernization Act was passed in 2018, the NSAI averaged about 110 days a year on Capitol Hill demonstrating (with guitars in hand) the importance of what songwriters did and how unfair their compensation was. Despite this work and progress, Bart emphasizes that above all, you still must have a hit single on the radio in order to make money. 

“If you write songs that have a positive effect on others, songs that are played at weddings, graduations, and other special events, you should be fairly compensated for it.”

Thank you to Bart for being on the show today, speaking about The Music Modernization Act and the work of the NSAI. To our listeners, please remember to rate, subscribe, and share our podcast with your friends!

Connect with Bart

-on Instagram

Links and Resources

-NSAI Website

-Nashvillewriters.com

-Music Modernization Act

-The Tennessean-Story Behind the Song

Support The Verse Chorus Podcast

Visit us on our website and follow us on Facebook!